View Full Version : Is Science ever really settled?
"Hey, we don't serve neutrino's here" said the bartender.
A neutrino walked into a bar.
It appears that neutrino's can travel faster than the speed of light, regardless of 100 or so years of science which says it's impossible. http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/09/neutrinos-travel-faster-than-lig.html
The data come from a 1300-metric-ton particle detector named Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus (OPERA). Lurking in Italy's subterranean Gran Sasso National Laboratory, OPERA detects neutrinos that are fired through the earth from the European particle physics laboratory, CERN, near Geneva, Switzerland. As the particles hardly interact at all with other matter, they stream right through the ground, with only a very few striking the material in the detector and making a noticeable shower of particles.
Over 3 years, OPERA researchers timed the roughly 16,000 neutrinos that started at CERN and registered a hit in the detector. They found that, on average, the neutrinos made the 730-kilometer, 2.43-millisecond trip roughly 60 nanoseconds faster than expected if they were traveling at light speed. "It's a straightforward time-of-flight measurement," says Antonio Ereditato, a physicist at the University of Bern and spokesperson for the 160-member OPERA collaboration. "We measure the distance and we measure the time, and we take the ratio to get the velocity, just as you learned to do in high school." Ereditato says the uncertainty in the measurement is 10 nanoseconds.
I wonder what other "settled science" is anything but?
Surely there is far more to this universe than science can really ever know, for sure. But I'm okay with that. I like mysteries.
The answer to your questions is, "No." :~)
BTW, do you have a link for that reference? I'd like to read all of it.
And here's a quote regarding Einstein's theories: "Surprising as it may be to most non-scientists and even to some scientists, Albert Einstein concluded in his later years that the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously."
Link: http://everythingforever.com/einstein.htm
The answer to your questions is, "No." :~)
BTW, do you have a link for that reference? I'd like to read all of it.
Sure, I linked to it in the original post, but here it is again.
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/09/neutrinos-travel-faster-than-lig.html
dado potato
10-10-11, 6:32pm
Damn straight, like everyone has said, "NO".
The skepticism of science is the final hope of homo sapiens for survival.
What does settled mean?
Science is a discipline of asking questions and looking for answers. It's cumulative, not an on/off thing.
Sure, I linked to it in the original post, but here it is again.
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/09/neutrinos-travel-faster-than-lig.html
Oh, duh. Thanks. I think hay fever has lowered my IQ by a good thirty points. At least I haven't drooled on myself yet. !Splat!
No. And it has been so befouled by money and politics (this is nothing new--think Galileo) that it takes forever to overcome "common wisdom." With quantum physics pondering multiple dimensions, things are bound to get more confusing. But it's the best we've got.
What does settled mean?
I'm not sure, but I have it on good authority that the science of anthropogenic global warming is "settled". I've also been led to believe that E=Mc2 was "settled" as well. Now, I'm confused. Excited, but confused.
The answer to your questions is, "No." :~)
BTW, do you have a link for that reference? I'd like to read all of it.
And here's a quote regarding Einstein's theories: "Surprising as it may be to most non-scientists and even to some scientists, Albert Einstein concluded in his later years that the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously."
Link: http://everythingforever.com/einstein.htm
I think my cortex just suffered a blow out:D. Pretty interesting article!
Now, I'm confused. Excited, but confused.
That sounds dangerous. I think you should take two aspirin and possibly a sleeping pill and go lie down. :~)
loosechickens
10-11-11, 1:09am
I think you're conflating two very different things, Alan, to the detriment of both. Nice try, no cigar.
My son, the mathematician has been sending me lots of information on this, and very soon, several other experiements will be done to see if this can be replicated, and yes, it DOES have some tremendous implications, if it turns out not to be just an error in calculations. Because, (and my understanding of this is very sketchy, although his isn't), in addition to calling Einstein's belief in the absolute speed of light into question, at least in a sub-atomic world, it also could buttress the concept of enfolded, multiple dimensions, where the neutrinos managed to "surf" through another dimension to get to their destination just the tinest bit faster than light. Which is very exciting for string theory folks.....
at any rate, time is certainly NOT as we think of it, and as a concept, may be illusory in a very basic way.
not much like melting glaciers, sorry.
So fascinating, and so completely not applicable to your attempt to illustrate that "settled science" thingey.........science is ALWAYS open to new information, unlike most peoples' minds, which is why so many people often have a lot of difficulty with science. They WANT absolute, but absolute doesn't exist. Gravity is, after all, not "settled" science, because we understand it as a force in the Universe, very imperfectly, but few want to test it for reality by jumping from tall buildings.
Is science ever really settled?
Dude, IS ANYTHING ever really settled?
HELL NO.
But we like to think so. Even religion, which claims to stand on a solid rock, is always changing. Even the most conservative religions have chainged their stuff over time.
I believe as technologies evolve and advance, certain scientific theories will be questioned and even proven inconclusive/inaccurate.
Who ordered the veal cutlet?
Mighty Frugal
10-11-11, 9:53pm
I think you're conflating two very different things, Alan, to the detriment of both. Nice try, no cigar.
My son, the mathematician has been sending me lots of information on this, and very soon, several other experiements will be done to see if this can be replicated, and yes, it DOES have some tremendous implications, if it turns out not to be just an error in calculations. Because, (and my understanding of this is very sketchy, although his isn't), in addition to calling Einstein's belief in the absolute speed of light into question, at least in a sub-atomic world, it also could buttress the concept of enfolded, multiple dimensions, where the neutrinos managed to "surf" through another dimension to get to their destination just the tinest bit faster than light. Which is very exciting for string theory folks.....
at any rate, time is certainly NOT as we think of it, and as a concept, may be illusory in a very basic way.
not much like melting glaciers, sorry.
So fascinating, and so completely not applicable to your attempt to illustrate that "settled science" thingey.........science is ALWAYS open to new information, unlike most peoples' minds, which is why so many people often have a lot of difficulty with science. They WANT absolute, but absolute doesn't exist. Gravity is, after all, not "settled" science, because we understand it as a force in the Universe, very imperfectly, but few want to test it for reality by jumping from tall buildings.
LC (did you know LC are my real initials?) can I beg you to dumb this down so my feeble hungry mind can grasp what you and your son are saying? I am nuts about cosmology but am super slow and it is very hard to understand what is written because the writers are geniuses and think everyone that is reading it is as well.
I am fascinated with the string theory and multiple dimensions and loved reading earlier this year about the discovery of neutrinos.
If you have the time and patience can you explain to us what you know about the string theory and the dimensions and if that means time travel could be possible. But do it as if you were explaining it to a walnut tree..
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