View Full Version : Feeling Left Out
chrissieq
10-19-11, 7:52pm
I went to a morning training today with several folks I work with and realized that they were planning on going out to lunch together and I was, obviously, not included. Really, they were passing notes with the name of the restaurant!! How Junior High of them!
In reality, I am sure I would have passed even if invited for 2 reasons - I had a long list of things I needed to get done and these are not people I really want to spend time with.
How Junior High of me!!
I need to let this go but also need to accept that these aren't the kind of people I want to put energy into - why am I letting them?!
I just needed to say this and now I think I can let it go. Thanks for listening.
Gardenarian
10-19-11, 7:58pm
ouch.
I so hate it when things like this happen. I also tend to go back to my adolescent self when around others who are immature. It makes my stomach ache to think about it.
(((((hugs)))))
Yes, ouch. And how juvenile of them, too.
Some people/relationships - you just need to flush 'em and forget 'em.
OR if you're stronger than I am, kill them with kindness. That'll get 'em every time.
mtnlaurel
10-19-11, 8:55pm
How is it that grown people can be so lame? Super hugs.
yeah, it's annoying.
you know what helped me, though? i don't know when this came up, but it was a good realization. it wasn't an us/them thing.
here's the story for context.
i had two law school friends, and we all got along. we did this thing where we all had dinner together once a month, and we traded hosting. all of us lived a fair distance from each other (at least an hour from each other's houses in a triangle-shape), and we were all about 40 minutes from school.
after school, my two friends would often get together for dinner, study sessions, lunch, snacks, concerts, whatever. i was never invited or included.
at first i felt hurt, but then something clicked:
"it's ok for them to forge their own relationship, and have their own time without me." While we had a great time altogether, after this realization, i never felt jealous of times i was excluded, or hurt by it. I just recognized that sometimes people don't include me, and that it's ok that i'm not included.
and it works really well in a lot of circumstances.
Oh, it happens all the time. I remember playing volleyball with a group when I first moved to CA. My husband was spending the summer in Europe, and this was his crowd. On one Saturday, one of the couples invited two new couples to play, and talked the whole time about the dinner party they were all having later.
The next week the same couple pointed out that it was my hubby's birthday, and that they'd be happy to come over and eat cake if I made one for him (you know, the hubby in Europe).
I've also been at a couple of weddings where groups will steal chairs from another table so they can cram 12 people on an 8 person table. Or at holiday parties where you come back and find your purse/jacket have been moved. I can't believe it. I mean are we 10? It's dinner. It's 45 minutes. You can't socialize with other people for 45 minutes? If I am at a wedding or party and I am at a full table and see an almost empty table near me, I make a point to move over there, even without my husband sometimes, and be social.
On the other hand, I remember being 20-something and meeting a friend of a friend (guy) at a happy hour and finding him really interesting, and wanting to get to know him better. I was engaged, it wasn't a dating thing, just a "hey, this guy is interesting" thing. He was rude and made it *very* clear that he had no interest. I just shrugged my shoulders and said "eh". I mean, I don't like everyone in the world, and not everyone is going to like me. And that's okay. At least I'm polite.
Junior High! Can we ever move past it? I guess I'm pretty immature because I get that feeling of being left out/excluded at work too. Hugs to you.
Good for you for recognizing and seeing past this.
I keep being delighted and surprised how neat it is to have somewhere like this SLF to vent just these yucky experiences and receive wonderful insights, empathy and understanding in how to cope.
Its difficult to feel rejected..........even if its by people who you don't particularly care for!
Just as razz just said......good for you for seeing past this.
((((hugs)))))
reader99
10-20-11, 10:44am
Feelings are still feelings, regardless of age. Could be we associate these things with junior high because feelings are so very strong at that age. Excluding people is still hurtful even in maturity. Knowing that one didn't want to socialize with those people anyway is a great antidote.
I agree. That really stinks. I'd feel the same way you do because even if they aren't your favorite people, it still hurts to be obviously excluded. They obviously have no manners.
There's nothing worse than feeling lonely in a group. Would it be unusual for you to go out to lunch with a work group on a normal day? If you're someone that normally runs errands or eats in, you may just be off their "work lunch" radar.
Some people just never learned good manners I guess. Or never developed a sensitivity for those around them. Even if I really didn't like someone, I wouldn't make them feel left out, like the people mentioned here have.
I think that this hurts us because we care about other people and just want to be part of stuff. That has never happened to me at work or socially, but it happens all the time in my immediate family. Not only was I not invited to my spouse's retirement party, when a clueless person asked if I was going, my husband chimed in with a huge 'of course!', then later gave me the wrong address (smack in the middle of nowhere) so that he could be sure that I would not be there. I tried to not take it too personally because it is only the millionth time that it happened, but it did sting a bit.
Gardenarian
10-20-11, 3:48pm
Feelings are still feelings, regardless of age. Could be we associate these things with junior high because feelings are so very strong at that age. Excluding people is still hurtful even in maturity. Knowing that one didn't want to socialize with those people anyway is a great antidote.
Excellent point, reader99. I guess we hope that we've outgrown all of those hurtful times, but the heart is tender at every age.
I think that this hurts us because we care about other people and just want to be part of stuff. That has never happened to me at work or socially, but it happens all the time in my immediate family. Not only was I not invited to my spouse's retirement party, when a clueless person asked if I was going, my husband chimed in with a huge 'of course!', then later gave me the wrong address (smack in the middle of nowhere) so that he could be sure that I would not be there. I tried to not take it too personally because it is only the millionth time that it happened, but it did sting a bit.
Your own husband gave you the wrong address for his retirement party? I'm not sure there are words to describe how that would make me feel. :(
Your own husband gave you the wrong address for his retirement party? I'm not sure there are words to describe how that would make me feel. :(
I agree....whaaaat???
It was pretty crappy, so crap is a good word, although I had forgotten about it until I read this thread. I would love to say that you get used to this sort of thing, but you really do not. I just try to not let it bother me too much.
Aqua Blue
10-20-11, 4:32pm
It was pretty crappy, so crap is a good word, although I had forgotten about it until I read this thread. I would love to say that you get used to this sort of thing, but you really do not. I just try to not let it bother me too much.
If it was me, I would be telling that story about my ex husband. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with him?
It is complicated. Like, really complicated. We are both old, he is in poor health and my guess is that we are far from unique. Everyone has stuff in their life that is like that. Just doing the best that I can, but to answer you, it is not my preference. I mean, I am not making excuses, it is just what it is, and I am trying to do the right thing. I shared only because feeling left out is a pretty universal experience, and I cannot imagine that anyone escapes it.
pony mom
10-20-11, 10:47pm
FLATLEAVERS!!!!
I would have felt left out as well. I've always been a bit of a loner, with different interests than others, but it still bothers me a bit when I'm left out of something, even if I wouldn't be interested anyway. We never outgrow this need to fit in.
During my Reflexology training weekend, at lunchtime people went off in groups to eat together. I sat near a pond behind the hotel and ate my lunch watching a blue heron wandering in the pond. An interesting lunch companion and something I would have missed if I had gone somewhere else.
I have stories like Juds' with my ILs. They would unusually insist that we come for some dinner, and so we woudl drive 1.5 hrs out of our way and get there at the designated time, to an empty house, and then about 30 minutes before dinner MIL would wander in and say that she'd just been at her neighbor-friend's for the last hour that we were at her house (and she had insisted on the time), and that FIL was out doing XYZ thing of his own, and so we'd basically sat in an empty house waiting for them, and then she made dinner, and FIL came home, and we'd have dinner, and then MIL would go for her evening shower and get ready for bed and FIL woudl go out to the garage and putter around. And so it was pointless.
If we weren't there when MIL arrived -- as one time i said "lets just go for a walk" -- then we get yelled at. If we left right after dinner -- before they'd left us to go upstairs and to the garage -- then we would get yelled at.
And one time we were invited to celebrate DH's birthday, which was alwas combined with his sister's (they being about 2 weeks apart in birthdays, though 3 yrs in age of course), and so we show up at the house at the time determined and no one is there. We wait for about 3-4 hours, and no one is there. We decide to go to dinner, because we were hungry, and this is the time before cell phones (or before any of us had one), and so out we went.
We returned to the house sometime before leaving town, and FIL and MIL were there (one in the garage, and one in her night clothes), and they asked why we hadn't just met them at the restaurant. They'd never told us which restaurant that we were going to, and besides, we'd been told that it was going to be at home, and that I was supposed to bring a dish. I'd brought the dish!
So, yeah, they are whackadoodle.
Please let's not judge the content within Jud's or anyone else's post on such emotional topics or we risk people not being willing to share due to being judged. Empathize.
Now having posted this, I wondered if I really understood the role of empathy myself so went looking online. I found this recent article that helped me a lot in clarifying my thinking so hope that it helps others. I might make an effort to follow his blog.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-robbins/power-of-empathy-_b_1015610.html
I had a painful, but poignant phone conversation earlier this week with my wife Michelle. She shared some challenges with me in a vulnerable and passionate way. As I started to give her some of my "helpful advice" (as I often do -- being a man, as well as an author, speaker and coach, I'm fairly well trained at giving advice), she stopped me and said, "Can't you just give me empathy for me? That's what I really need right now. Once I feel your empathy, I can hear your feedback."
Her comment stopped me in my tracks. I got defensive and began to justify myself -- arguing that I did, indeed, have a lot of empathy and that she should be more open to my feedback. Needless to say, my defensiveness (and subsequent arrogance and self righteousness) didn't help things, and the conversation got worse before it got better, which it eventually did.
Michelle's feedback, however, registered with me at a very deep level. Although I "understand" the importance of empathy, teach it to others through my work, and have the capacity to experience and express a great deal of empathy with people around me, it's sometimes difficult for me to have empathy for the people closest to me, including myself, especially recently. Maybe you can relate?
Empathy can be tricky, particularly when we have an emotional connection (or attachment) to the people or situation involved (which we almost always do). It's also challenging to feel empathy when we feel threatened, stressed, or emotionally triggered (all of which we can experience a lot, especially with those who mean the most to us). And, empathy is sometimes misunderstood.
Empathy is NOT:
•Sympathy
•Pity
•Agreement
•Commiseration
•Endorsement
Simply put, empathy is getting into another person's world and connecting with them both emotionally and compassionately. We don't have to agree with them or fully understand them to be able to empathize. We don't even need to be able to relate to what they are experiencing specifically (although that can help). We just need to be present, connect with them where they are, and acknowledge what they're experiencing. Empathy for ourselves, while different contextually, actually functions the exact same way, simply turned inward.
The problem is that we often allow our egos, opinions and judgments to get in the way of our ability to experience and express empathy. If I agree with someone completely, can totally relate to them, and see things exactly as they do, it's quite easy for me to empathize with them.
However, if I don't agree, can't relate, have a very different take on the situation or actually think how they're reacting to things is potentially harmful for them and others, it's often very hard for me to be empathetic toward them and I also worry that my expression of empathy could come across as agreement or endorsement.
While it can be challenging, the power of empathy is essential to the health and success of our relationships and lives. It is a key element to our own emotional intelligence and well being. With the people closest to us, including ourselves, and the issues that mean the most to us, empathy is even more critical, but often more difficult for us to experience and express.
Here are a few things to remember and practice to enhance your capacity for empathy:
1) Ask yourself where empathy is missing. Take inventory of your life and relationships and notice where empathy may be wanted, needed, or simply missing. As you identify situations, relationships and personal matters that could use an increased amount of empathy, make a commitment to yourself to bring less judgment and more compassion to them.
2) Reach out to people in your life. As you identify specific situations and relationships where you could bring more empathy, reach out to the people involved and let them know. There may be an apology to give, an acknowledgement to make, or simply an admission that you want to bring more empathy and compassion (and less judgment, advice, self righteousness, etc) to your relationship. Start working to do that with the most important people in your life.
3) Ask how people are feeling and really listen to what they say. One of the best ways we can express empathy towards others is through our curiosity and listening. When people feel heard, seen, and emotionally understood, they often relax, open up, and feel supported. Asking people how they truly feel, what's really going on in their world, AND listening to how they respond (without judgment) are some of the best things we can do to express our empathy for the people around us.
All of these things also hold true with regard to having empathy and compassion for ourselves, which is essential in this process. Like most things in life, we can't give away what we don't already have ourselves. Self empathy is the foundation.
Everyone on the planet, including us, is almost always doing the very best they can in each moment. We're all just dealing with the joy, pain, growth, challenge, and more of being human. Remembering this allows us to cut ourselves and others some loving slack, and engage in life, in our relationships, and with ourselves with a deep sense of respect, reverence, and, ultimately, empathy.
Mike Robbins is a sought-after motivational keynote speaker, coach, and the bestselling author of Focus on the Good Stuff (Wiley) and Be Yourself, Everyone Else is Already Taken (Wiley). More info - www.Mike-Robbins.com
Aqua Blue
10-21-11, 10:47am
It is complicated. Like, really complicated. We are both old, he is in poor health and my guess is that we are far from unique. Everyone has stuff in their life that is like that. Just doing the best that I can, but to answer you, it is not my preference. I mean, I am not making excuses, it is just what it is, and I am trying to do the right thing. I shared only because feeling left out is a pretty universal experience, and I cannot imagine that anyone escapes it.
Juds, first off my appologies. I should not have told you what to do. I have had migraine trouble all week, and it does something to my brain-it becomes irritated and I become more impulsive than I usually am. That said, I actually can really relate to you. I have been happily divorced 15 years but was married to someone probably very similar for 19 years. Not to get too far into it, but I think he was mentally ill and I being somewhat socially naive I didn't realize that until too late. Most of those 19 years I felt I was supposed to stay, so I can understand. Take care of yourself tho, it is very hard and very lonely.
Back to the OP. Pony Mom, I can relate to what you said. I too am a loner and somewhat socially awkward and in some ways should be over not being included
but, it still hurts. It does remind me of Junior High.
domestic goddess
10-21-11, 11:03am
How rude, and childish, too! I tend to be a loner, and probably would not have gone with such a group, but having to watch the goings on you described would be be hurtful to me, too. Kind of like rubbing salt into the wound, isn't it? I can only assume these folks didn't have anyone to teach them good manners, or else they wouldn't act that way, and the lack of good manners in the work world can be a real hindrance. There, now I have something to feel good about! No, honestly, back in the day when I was growing up, in a small town, if you weren't at least polite, someone, somewhere would call you on it (an adult), or report it to your parents.
Please let's not judge the content within Jud's or anyone else's post on such emotional topics or we risk people not being willing to share due to being judged. Empathize.
I agree in principle that its a good thing to empathize. However the one big exception in my book, is when abusive behavior is being observed. I think its hugely important to let the victim of this know that this is not OK behavior. I think that's what people were trying to do here by speaking up. I've seen situations where people (usually women) just continue to take it, because they don't really realize/want to admit that it is wrong and should be stopped. Having a spouse who doesn't invite you to their own party, and gives you bogus directions so you don't show up is not a good situation. That's not acceptable. If that makes me judgmental, I accept that.
I agree in principle that its a good thing to empathize. However the one big exception in my book, is when abusive behavior is being observed. I think its hugely important to let the victim of this know that this is not OK behavior. I think that's what people were trying to do here by speaking up. I've seen situations where people (usually women) just continue to take it, because they don't really realize/want to admit that it is wrong and should be stopped. Having a spouse who doesn't invite you to their own party, and gives you bogus directions so you don't show up is not a good situation. That's not acceptable. If that makes me judgmental, I accept that.
I agree. And I do want her to know that no, families are not like this. Married partners are not like this, and this isn't normal. I can't agree to "all couples are like this" by my silence.
I do empathise with her feeling of hopelessness in that she can't see a way to escape this reality. I really don't have any answers for her except maybe to tell this to a sympathetic friend or family member who could help her.
Aqua Blue
10-21-11, 3:38pm
I agree in principle that its a good thing to empathize. However the one big exception in my book, is when abusive behavior is being observed. I think its hugely important to let the victim of this know that this is not OK behavior. I think that's what people were trying to do here by speaking up. I've seen situations where people (usually women) just continue to take it, because they don't really realize/want to admit that it is wrong and should be stopped. Having a spouse who doesn't invite you to their own party, and gives you bogus directions so you don't show up is not a good situation. That's not acceptable. If that makes me judgmental, I accept that.
I was one of those people. When someone finally said to me, Are you SURE you want to spend the rest of your life doing this? I said of course, I made this commitment, but it started wearing away my "sureness". Sadly, very few people said anything about it not being ok to me.
i was commiserating in order to demonstrate that i can empathize with both the direct experience and also choosing to stick with those folks who have hurt us. At least, that was my attempt.
It's difficult to empathize online, because we only have words. So i find commiseration often works ok to demonstrate that.
leslieann
10-21-11, 4:34pm
I am impressed with the adult-ness of this conversation. That's all I want to say. Good job, people, for saying what you think, for clarifying where needed, and for offering support (as well as definitions) for the sharing that goes on here. This thread could have gone up in flames but people have done a really nice job with it.
And yes, it feels LOUSY to be left out even of something you don't want to do! That's one of our human paradoxes...probably because in our ancient histories, being a loner was a lot less safe than being with the group, especially eating.
I am very appreciative of the participants in this forum, at least in the way that this thread has moved.
i really liked "lunch with a heron."
one of my favorite things ever -- since i was little -- was having animal companionship of some kind during my "free" time. I'm very much a loner, but plants and animals are good friends.
domestic goddess
10-21-11, 8:14pm
I think I may have contributed to a similar problem of ny own. My dd has in-laws that she likes very much, and they often visit. Originally, they invited me to come along, but there would be a crowd (this is a family of 8 now), plus our 5. I also didn't want them to feel obligated to include me in everything. Now, no one even bothers to invite me along, though I'm sure I would be welcome if I said I wanted to go along. But often, it is a relief to get to spend some time alone, as that doesn't happen often in this house. So, their friend, who also lives here goes along,while I, the relative, stay behind. Life is just a bit crazy, sometimes, but I think we are mostly getting what we want
pony mom
10-22-11, 12:12am
[QUOTE= Life is just a bit crazy, sometimes, but I think we are mostly getting what we want[/QUOTE]
I think you're right, domestic goddess. Due to the frugal ways of most of us here, eating our own food that we've brought from home, either because it's healthier or cheaper, we wouldn't want to be invited out for lunch/dinner/whatever. But still, it's nice to be asked. (Unless they say "You don't [I]really[I] want to come out with us, do you??) And do we really enjoy the typical conversations of most people, usually about shopping/spending money? They don't want to hear about saving, reusing and all that stuff. They're happy in their ignorance and misery.
Zoebird, I'm like you. Much happier in nature or with animals. Even when I'm done riding/fussing over my horse, I spend a lot of time just hanging out, watching them eat, or chatting with the barn cat (he's very talkative) who loves attention. Sometimes sitting alone, not having to make conversation or be entertaining, is a great way to spend time.
I've learned that if I'm asked to go somewhere/do something, if I have to take time to decide, then I really don't want to go/do it. That hint of doubt that stops me from immediately saying "Yes!" is there for a reason. It also seems that my idea of a nice time is boring to most people.
bagelgirl
10-22-11, 1:03pm
I have to say this happened to me in a work setting. Three of us working in one quiet corner of a busy medical clinic. One of the other assistants was in her 20s, one in her 50s and I was the odd woman out. They left me out of everything, kept switching seat (twice) until they sat next to each other and even sometimes whispered so I couldnt hear. I was in my 50s, and thought they were ridiculous but it was still extremely hard to work with them eight hours a day.
I finally asked the supervisor for a transfer to another doctor. She couldn't do it right away, but soon I had a new and happy place to work. I was, and am, embarassed at how much my feelings were hurt, but still.........our feelings are our feelings.
DonkaDoo
10-24-11, 12:42pm
I feel this way sometimes especially with my inlaws. We all live in Chicago - but they have lived here a lot longer and my husband is just a nephew - as opposed to a brother or a son. But sometimes I see pictures of the whole fam out together for dinner on facebook (they make no secret of it obviously)- and I just think gee would have been nice to have an invite. But I just try and tell myself that they are much closer and that it's okay to be a little hurt, too. I would never say anything about it though to them. I don't want a pity invite.
chrissieq
10-24-11, 8:51pm
Thank you all for your support and comments. We went back to work today and I laid pretty low. I am coming back with the attitude that these are co-workers, not life-long friends, who I can be polite to and with whom I do not need to over-share/invest a lot of myself. My goal is to do the best job I can, make money and go home to do what I really want to do! Again, thanks!
I'm loving this thread :)
I think the reason ostracism reminds us of junior high, is that kids at that age are conservative, compulsively correcting, and simply horrible about other kids who are even just a little bit different. Not all kids do this, but there's something about that age group. I was rejected, shunned, ostracized, and outright persecuted and tormented for years, because - well, to this day I'm not sure why. But anything that happens nowadays that reminds me even a little of those times, still makes me feel sick, though I've overcome a lot of my issues.
Once I worked in the word processing department (do they have those anymore?) of an office where the manager wanted me and another woman to go to a language skills seminar. (I have no idea why - I was an English major, didn't need refreshing on subject-verb agreement, but our manager always had his head up his @$$ and was constantly doing things to make himself feel like a boss).
So this woman simply hated me. Never knew why, and she was a freak, so I never cared. But I was struck by her need to reject me in an obvious way at every opportunity. And she took it this time. So the two of us went downtown together to the seminar, at this gigantic hotel with about a hundred other strangers. At lunch, she just took off - took some pleasure, in fact, in telling me she'd made plans to have lunch with somebody else that day!
So I sat there studying my stupid workbook, and this is a different subject now, but it was so frickin' hilarious! All the test sentences in the booklet were so sexist, it was crazy! "Sally typed the memos. Jan got the coffee. Mr. Brockman brought in some new clients." LOL!
God I hate work :)
Aqua Blue
10-26-11, 5:29pm
I think that fear of being shunned was what made me leave hospital nursing and go to a small office where there was just the two of us. I hated those junior high games. I earned a lot less money, but I doubt I could have continued working if I had stayed in the hospital.
In the last 5 years or so I have had a very healing group of people I have been priviledged to run around with, they are mostly rertired and very including. Many many times someone has said to me, Oh you might be interested in....that I and ... are doing. If I say not at this time, they seem to always say, feel free to say you want to come at a later date. It has healed my soul of a life time of hurts.
Kitten and Aqua Blue, such great stories.
fidgiegirl
11-7-11, 9:22pm
I can be with my inlaws and often feel that if I got up and left, no one would even notice :( The two most forceful personalities in the bunch are very self-absorbed. I have resigned myself to the fact that this is who they are, and they are not going to change. The only thing that will happen if I point out that they very rarely inquire into how we are doing (DH or I, but especially me, since I'm not blood), is that they will get all mad and call all the rest of the family and gossip about it. :( If I were to just jump in and share something about my life or thoughts, it gets ignored in moving on to the next topic of interest, or provokes too much interest - not genuine interest, but judgmental, what-a-freak, Spanish Inquisition interest. It's bully-ish behavior, I am realizing. Oh well, I need to focus on the good things about each of them. It could be much worse, but it doesn't make me, for example, very excited about the holidays.
i know that feeling fidgiegirl. one more reason to move to NZ> :D
A follow up to my original entry - I was in touch with a former co-worker via email who said "Why didn't you join us for lunch after training?". I know that I will let this go - and not say, "Heh why didn't you tell me you saw Denise?" - tempting but what purpose would it serve?
I have to also add that I had an unpleasant interaction with one of these co-workers last week and she refused to speak to me for a week - I don't think she realized what a blessing it was for me!
that sort of thing makes me go *snort*
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