help-long

[Aqua Blue]

I am not particularly good at putting things in writing, but this is something that has been an ongoing problem in my quest for simplicity, so I thought I would put it out there and see if you have any ideas. I am rather shy and have a hard time sticking up for myself, I am in my late 50's so I don't really know how much change I am up to.:|( LOL

This is an example which happened recently, but I have had many similar things over the years. Earlier this year I had a baby shower for a new niece at my house. I (and actually my sister who happened to be visiting) worked for a whole week. cleaning the house. Washing the windows inside and out. Ironing table clothes. I even bought a rug for the livingroom earlier than I wanted, so that it looked nice. We went out pretty much everyday to shop for things to make it very special. :) This is a first and late in life baby and we hadn't done much for the wedding, as circumstances didn't allow. I spent around $200 on the party and I am good at stretching, that $200 went along ways. I am on a tight budget and this was a sacrifice, but I wanted it special. The day of the shower, my other sister in law shows up with 2 meat trays, her contribution.

She and my brother are one of the first people to leave, with no help in cleanup. The last person leaves 3 hours after what we had put as the end of the shower:0! I am exhausted, my fibro is flared etc.It really took me weeks to recover. Both my sister and I think SIL and DB are otherwise very unimpressed

Anyhow, the brother and his wife who brought the trays of meat/cheese tell new parents that they spent $90 on the two trays. Brother with the new baby tells me, very impressed etc. They end up taking brother and sister in law out to a nice restraunt for supper as thank you. They bring I and my sister Subway(No drinks, chips or cookies either, just the $5 -one for us to split >8))one evening as a thank you for what we did. Inside I am furious, but having a hard time ever saying anything and feeling it is their right to "reward" anyway they want. I should have had the shower out of the goodness of my heart or not at all. >:( So, I think I am over it. My sister and I joke about it during the time she is here and actually still joke about it one the phone.

But then, we recently were supposed to go out for a birthday supper for one of my brothers and the sil with the now 9mo baby doesn't want to go, because it costs too much money and we never go where she likes(except on her Bday). So of course, that brother(whose b day it was) thinks we should not go, he doesn't want to make her mad. Really their problem, but I am furious. Furious at this SIL, Furious at my brother for never standing up to her. Furious that I spend money on them, but it is too much to spend anything on our family get togethers. Etc.

But after I mull this over in my mind for several days, the anger is really about way back in March when I gave the shower way more time, attention and money than I wanted. And then it wasn't even acknowledged.

This isn't the only time I have done this:treadmill: I have found myself often in situations like this. I know I should only do what I really am willing to do, but things seem to get out of hand. I know I should have said something to my brother, but I have a hard time doing that-I don't like confrontation. I know my expectations of an event are different than someone elses. But how, after a life time of not asserting yourself, do you start?rrrrr

[reader99]

I start with "I feel". I statements let me express my feelings. Statements that start with "you" can easily be received as an attack, and halt all listening.

[iris lily]

I'm sorry that your efforts for putting on a very nice baby shower weren't acknowledged to the level that you felt they should be. I'm sure that party was lovely! That is a very big deal, where these days these parties are all too often held in a restaurant. You are right that it is a big investment of time and money.
Only you know the guests of honor well enough to know if their lack of thanks is typical of their behavior. Personally, I would find it odd to give any sort of gift to someone who threw a party for me--a nice thank you note is what we do here.

You feel what you feel so I'm not going to tell you to cut that out. :)

But if I were you, I'd not do a whole lot with this family. It sounds, from your description, as though it gives you more grief than joy. The "expectations" thing runs both ways, so please consider that you may not be their cup of tea, either. That is OK! Your behavior may not be something that meets their expectations and, hence Brother-with-9-mo-old-baby may prefer the company of brother-who-brought-meat-tray. (We have another thread about this very thing, feeling left out. It's a good thread!)

There is a bit of evidence that your family, or you anyway, consider tit-for-tat social obligations. You did mention that you "didn't do much for the wedding." I don't know what that means, but good wishes is all that you need to do if they are heartfelt. If you are keeping a mental tally of what you owe that is bad for your psyche. Siblings do a lot of this. Beware.

I wouldn't "confront" anyone because what is it you expect them to do? Say that they are sorry they didn't acknowledge your efforts more? I don't see that as realistic, either you have polite people in your family, or you do not. I would not have expected meat-tray-brother and his wife to help clean up although certainly an offer of
such would be nice. Someone had such a good time that they stayed way past the posted time. That could be considered a success!

It is just as you know to be true, give things that you are willing to give, and ignore the rest. And OMG your house is now clean! clean clean clean! yay! That if nothing else is a great reason to give a party.:D

[Aqua Blue]

Thanks for both of your comments.

That situation was just an example. The problem as I see it is at the time I have no idea that I am resentful or how resentful I am, but weeks or monthes later I will find myself angry with someone over something that isn't the current issue, but the issue happened way before. What I am asking for is ideas on how to identify that earlier and dealing with it then.

I actually don't know this SIL well, she is from another culture and it is hard to decipher behavior. I know my brothers are closer to each other than to me, that really isn't an issue for me. Actually I am glad they have a good relationship. I do have a good enough relationship with either brother, that if I had been able to realize I was upset I could have talked to them and actually probably come to a reasonable solution. The problem is me not realizing it until much later.

I find the same thing true in say clubs I am involved with. I will help with say an event. I end up taking on more than I can handle, but I won't realize I resent it until much later.

[Zoebird]

I think that you can change -- if you want to -- but you should focus on yourself first, and then start talking to others, and/or others will resolve themselves.

The first step is identifying when you first start to feel over extended. This story is a lot about being over extended but no one recognizing that you are going to lengths for them.

By simply identifying when you feel over extended, you then can stop, take a breath, and determine what you want to do. You can continue to extend/over extend and accept that no one else may recognize how over-extended you are (and they never will, no matter how often you say it), or you can decide to draw the line there and say that's as far as you're willing to go.

Once you draw the line there, the others "get what they get" -- and that's ok. They'll likely show the same gratitude whether it was that, or a new rug more. KWIM?

By simply starting to recognize when you are feeling the initial part of this discomfort, you will then be able to stand up for yourself BEFORE you have to assert yourself.

Does that make sense?

----

I'll give an example from my life, about resentment.

I run a yoga studio. And, I have two teachers working for/with me. They are great people and I like them. One lives here, one just came here. Both were given established classes (with 5-8 students each) and both classes have dropped down to 1-2 students and sometimes 0. Which means i'm taking a loss for their classes, which is a burden to the studio.

I've also made a personal change, taking more financial responsibility for the business -- so that the yoga will support the business as a whole. This means that I need the classes to be full to make this income, and once there, anything else that comes in is "bonus."

So, I thought about simply taking back all of the classes.

But then I thought that I don't know what teacher 2 is doing -- he might be leaving soon, as he'd mentioned that might be the case. So, then I thought "well, I can wait until January when he leaves." And this was to be nice. I decided that teacher 1 could be directed into profitable state -- and she's dedicated and lives here -- so I would keep her in the position she's in.

When the next week teacher2 had several new students in a class (i think 4 or 5), and he didn't turn any of those students into returning students (i can usually turn 90% of them or more), I started to feel resentment.

And my mind went between: 1. i could have built that class and made a profit! 2. it's almost the end of the year, i should be nice and jsut let him earn what he can before he goes!

The reality is that no matter how nice teacher2 is, he's not dedicated to being here. He is moving on, so there's no motivation to build the class. But I'm here, and I have *every* motivation to build that class. I want to build it!

Thus, I decided to gently tell him that I was making a business decision, and he was totally fine with the decision that I had made. I didn't need to be "nice" -- I didn't need to over-extend myself.

---

The point of this story to me, and where it reflects on your story, is how quickly you move from extending yourself to over-extending. It's nice to extend, but resentment sets in when you over-extend.

And, that happens whether or not another party gets more acknowledgment. If the other person had gotten nothing from the couple and you'd gotten nothing from the couple, then no doubt you would still feel some level of resentment that you had overextended yourself for them. The fact that the "thank yous" were so incongruous just salts the wound a bit.

The whole point is to have a strong boundary so that your feelings CAN'T get hurt if you get a sandwich and they get lobster, you know?

[Zoebird]

Oh, short answer is to try and observe up front. It's not always easy, and it usually comes up as a point of very modest discomfort in the onset.

for me, it's when i start to feel "stressed."

[loosechickens]

o.k. off the top of my head, since you asked for advice. To me, the fact that you don't feel resentment at the time, but the resentment arises at some point afterward says something to me. It says that unconsciously, you are expecting something of a quid pro quo for your efforts. I.e. that you will put yourself out for someone, but you are expecting that they will notice your efforts and think well of you and give you approval and thanks.

Which is kind of problematic, because no one is aware of those subliminal expectations, not even you at the time you're putting yourself out. And certainly that quid pro quo is unknown to the people to whom you are looking for thanks and approval.

To help this from happening in the future, make sure that the efforts you are willing to make are just that, the efforts YOU are willing to make, for your OWN reasons, and not because you are hoping somehow that the recipient or others will see what a fine person you are and feel grateful for your efforts.

Because the hard truth is that most people are pretty self absorbed, and seem to see most issues from the perspective of what they want, what is good for them, and for their own convenience. So looking to others' approval to feel good about ourselves is usually a lose/lose proposition.

In this case, perhaps it would help if you could recognize that what you really wanted underneath was for people to see and acknowledge how much work and effort you had put into the party (which sounds like it was lovely AND managed to get your house all nice and clean, and you're probably still enjoying the fruits of that), and those others just didn't pick up on that unspoken desire, so you were disappointed.

The cure can probably only be to examine your motives, desires and unspoken expectations at the time you are making the decision to put yourself out in this way, so that you have full understanding of your motives, and if they depend on others acting in a way to fulfill your expectations, try to recognize that it's probably not going to happen.

As others have said, recognizing that boundary between "extending" yourself for friends and family and "overextending" needs to happen back at the beginning, or you will suffer these sorts of hurts over and over.

Hey, for what it's worth, you did a wonderful job, produced a lovely party, got your house all nice and clean, and although you spent more money than was comfortable, you know inside yourself that you made the effort. You don't really need others to validate that, as the only person you really need respect and approval from is that person staring at you from the mirror. And THAT person knows that you did a great job.

[iris lily]

oh ok, I think I see what the OP is asking for. For club and hobby group work:

You have to be very clear about what you will do. Don't say that you will "help" with the event, take on a specific role that you can complete by yourself, expecting no one's help. Boundaries are self defined there.

Try that a few times before you expand. It's also possible that you will complete what you said that you would do and will have some extra time and can help further but again--don't volunteer to "help" with the event --that's too vague, and too much will be thrown at you--take on another, specific task.

It's always possible that what you've volunteered to do it too specific and the groups doesn't value that, and that's the case, so be it. Probably they will find something for you to do if you keep pitching in there, being specific about what tyou will do and then completing that work on time and on budget.

[domestic goddess]

Oh, do I ever understand where you are coming from, Aqua Blue! I find that putting a little thought into situations like these before the fact helps me.
When it comes to social events, decide what you are willing to do, and only do that. Don't buy a lot of things, unless you already had plans to make some purchases anyway, and have the money to do so. If you think the event won't be "special" enough without purchases you hadn't planned to make yet, then don't offer your place as the venue for the celebration. If you had planned to buy a rug anyway, and you are happy with what you purchased, then just be glad you now have a rug you like. If you are not happy with it, then shame on you for being rushed and not choosing well. No one owes you thanks for home purchases you were going to make anyway.
I find that when it comes to club things, I pretty well know in advance what the events will be ahead of time, once I have been involved for awhile. So think about upcoming events, before they start forming committees and asking for volunteers. Think about the specific tasks you would like to do, and decide if you will have the time and energy to do them. Choose 2 or 3 that you think you can handle (specific jobs), then eliminate at least one of them. After a few times, you will have a better idea of what you can really expect to get done, what you enjoy doing, and can then plan accordingly.
The point is, to start small. You can always add something else at another time, once you have tried it and know how much you can accomplish. When you have fibro (I do, too) you need to factor that in, and be easy on yourself, so you don't have another 2 or 3 week recuperation period. Hang on to your thoughts about your fibro, so you can use that as an excuse if you need to. I'm never specific about my health problems, as someone always has a sister or cousin or friend who has that very thing, and she "can just do anything." Don't let people try to talk you into doing "just one little extra thing", or you will be back to being a pushover.

[Charity]

You've gotten some excellent insight here. I would add only one thing. You can change even if you're over 50. I've been working on similar issues. What has worked the best for me is adjusting my expectations and setting clear boundaries before any hurt feelings arise.

If I know someone doesn't get out of bed before 11am, I don't ask them for a ride somewhere at 8am. They're going to say no and I'm going to be miffed. Inversly, if they ask me for a favor and I've just gotten home from a long and aggravating day at work and I just want to veg in front of the TV, I say no and I don't feel remotely like I'm letting them down anymore. I'm just clear about why I'm declining. Nothing bad happens. I just make it clear that just like they're unavailable by choice until 11am, I'm unavailable to run errands for them after work. I think what was causing me hurt feelings was mostly my own issue with saying no. Because I couldn't say no I'd resent it when others did. Now I only do things I really want to do.

People are people and nothing is ever going to be totally equitable. You've learned something about your brother in this situation. So use that to help you set clear boundaries with him and his wife in exchange. You could always buy them gift certificates to Sub-Way for Christmas. Just sayin.

[Aqua Blue]

Lots to think about. I appreciated all of your comments. I do tend to give an open "i'll help" and that would be a good place to start to change. I will really work on volunteering for a task, not an open ended "I'll help". Hopefully if I keep the "specific job" in mind I won't end up 4-6 monthes down the line angry at someone or some organization with no idea why.

I like the rug, it was just that I really wasn't prepared to buy it right then. The early part of this year I had a lot of unexpected expenses.

I think some of it is the fibro(and I have other issues-frequent migraines, osteo arthritis, and now I think I have bursitis in one hip pretty bad). I used to be able to do all of those things and it wouldn't be a problem and I enjoyed it. Now I end up too exhausted after over extending myself. It is hard to believe that you don't have your same earlier healthier body.

[Aqua Blue]

Charity, the gift cards to Subway would be hysterical!:D I might have to do that:cool:

[loosechickens]

Of course, all of this should acknowledge that the relatives DID behave kind of like jerks. And that you put out lots of effort that really should have been acknowledged and appreciated.

The problem is that we can't control what other people do, only what we, ourselves, do, so that has to be the place to achieve change.

I agree.......gift certificate to Subway for Xmas sounds like a "lovely gift".... ;-)

[bagelgirl]

I'm sorry but all of this advice about not execting anything in return is hogwash. ALL of us who knock ourselves out for someone really do expect some gratitude and perhaps to have OUR turn in the sun at some point. If you say that you don't, I don't believe you. All humans are self absorbed. Having said that I will tell the OP that I am your age and have cut way back on entertaining for that very reason. People who don't reciprocate stop getting invites from me. If that makes me an awful person, so be it.

I'm going to say something else that a lot of people might not agree with. You and your sister held the shower....you are women. Your brother and his wife brought some food and mentioned it to the new parents. I have found in life that women are EXPECTED to do nurturing things and little gratitude is extended towards them because of it. When men are part of something nurturing, people are hugely impressed. I don't mean to offend anyone, but that has been my experience.

Thirdly, this new mother sounds a bit self absorbed if she can't even be bothered to go to a restaurant that is not "one of her favorites." And I think you realized this after you hosted that lovey shower. I would feel exactly the way you do about the whole mess.

[Dhiana]

It's not too late to make self-improvements Aqua Blue =)
When putting in time, hard work & money into a project I ask myself what is my personal goal by doing it?
And is the stated reward in line with that goal? If no reward is stated then you can expect nothing, even if it's the 'polite' thing to do.

I have to agree with most of what loosechickens & bagelgirl said...it may not be about taking on too much, but whether or not
your chosen activities are in line with your personal goals/personality.
Focus your hard work in those specific areas :)

[Aqua Blue]

Bagelgirl, I think you comments about woman's roles is hugely true here. Both my sister and I are jump in and do it people, we have both painted houses inside and out by ourselves for instance. When my sister's kids were little she frequently drove 1000 miles to see me, by herself. Neither of my sister in laws are that kind of woman. The SIL with the baby for instance takes the baby to day care even on her days off, because as she says, I couldn't clean the house, or cook a meal or anything like that AND care for a baby.

I think when I was younger, and actually before fibro, I got enough inner reward just for pulling it off, for doing a job well done. I tend to forget and get myself in to deep not just in this situation, but in other areas as well. I will probably talk to the new father brother sometime about this, just to clear the air.

Thanks for all of your helpful comments. It gives me a lot to think about. Like I said before, this is an example, but I have had many other similar expiriences and I am always the only common denominator, so I know I need to change me.

[Zoebird]

i'm so hearing that, aqua blue. :)

it's often a gal thing, and then of course when you were able to do these things without having a drawn-out physical thing with the fibro.

[mtnlaurel]

Of course, all of this should acknowledge that the relatives DID behave kind of like jerks. And that you put out lots of effort that really should have been acknowledged and appreciated.

The problem is that we can't control what other people do, only what we, ourselves, do, so that has to be the place to achieve change.

I agree.......gift certificate to Subway for Xmas sounds like a "lovely gift".... ;-)

+1

[mtnlaurel]

Bagelgirl, I think you comments about woman's roles is hugely true here. Both my sister and I are jump in and do it people, we have both painted houses inside and out by ourselves for instance. When my sister's kids were little she frequently drove 1000 miles to see me, by herself. Neither of my sister in laws are that kind of woman. The SIL with the baby for instance takes the baby to day care even on her days off, because as she says, I couldn't clean the house, or cook a meal or anything like that AND care for a baby.

My sister and I have noticed that women seem to come in 1 of 2 categories - Princesses or Pack Horses. My sister and I both see ourselves as the later and are stunned by some of our girlfriend's lameness.
I recently unloaded on a friend for being lame - afterwards I apologized for my anger in delivery, but didn't apologize one iota for my content. It was after YEARS of similar scenarios as you described and I had hit my breaking point - I do NOT recommend that method!
I so relate to your post Aqua Blue, I know 12 step programs deal a lot with resentment. Wishing you the best on your quest.

[Stella]

The SIL with the baby for instance takes the baby to day care even on her days off, because as she says, I couldn't clean the house, or cook a meal or anything like that AND care for a baby.



I'm going to play devils advocate here. Having your first baby is a HUGE adjustment. Huge. I was 25 and didn't work outside the home when I had my first and I was knocked on my butt for a solid year. I can only imagine that it is even more so at a later stage in life and for those who have another job as well. I think it's pretty unkind to be making those sorts of judgements. Seven years later and working on my 5th kid I am the kind of mom who makes everything from scratch, homeschools my older kids and even takes them on crazy massive road trips, but wow. That first year of Cheyenne's life was BRUTAL. I don't think that's a rare experience either. I'd cut new parents a ton of slack.

I can kind of imagine a SIL like character posting here. "I have a birthday dinner to go to for my BIL, but I'm exhausted and it's expensive and not a place I particularly like and I secretly feel like my DH's family judges me and doesn't understand my point of view." We would all tell her to call off the engagement and take care of herself, put her guilt aside and not feel obligated to go. I'm not saying this to be judgemental of you Aqua Blue, just to point out that her side of the story might look quite different. I think it's a bit unfair to be calling this woman a "princess" because she has different priorities from some of us here. I'm as dive-in and DIY as it gets, but I don't have a need for others to be that way.

I find it's best to always assume the best of people. It's so rarely worth my time to ruminate on the worst case scenario. Maybe they were out with the other brother anyway and offered to pick up the check. That sort of thing happens often in my world. One party declines and the other comes up with an exuse to do it. "You paid for that $90 meat tray. Let us get this." Maybe they were stopping by Subway on the way to see you and thought, "it would be a nice gesture to bring something for Aqua and Other Sister" unaware that you and your brother were comparing notes.


ALL of us who knock ourselves out for someone really do expect some gratitude and perhaps to have OUR turn in the sun at some point. If you say that you don't, I don't believe you.

Sure, but gratitude and gifts are not the same thing. My sister threw me a very nice baby shower and my way of telling my sister thank-you was, literally, to tell her thank you. I've done similarly nice things for her and had the same reciprocation. I would have been very surprised if she had given me anything for it and I would have been very surprised if she had expected a gift from me.



I think when I was younger, and actually before fibro, I got enough inner reward just for pulling it off, for doing a job well done. I tend to forget and get myself in to deep not just in this situation, but in other areas as well. I will probably talk to the new father brother sometime about this, just to clear the air.



Aqua I know when I've faced physical challenges sometimes my frustration at my own limitations comes out sideways at others. I think that kind of thing is especially hard for people who are do-it-yourself types. Last pregnancy I was on bedrest and wow! I was a mental wreck! It's just something to consider if you are trying to work through this. Were you prone to this before the fibro?

Just one more thing. Please don't do the Subway gift cards for Christmas. Don't put that energy out in the world. If it was because they genuinely like Subway then great, but absolutely no good to your soul or theirs can come from an F-You gift.

[frugalone]

After years of going overboard on family gifts and events, I'm starting to talk to my DH about what we really want to do, give, etc. I'm sorry this happened to you, Aqua Blue.

I guess my best advice would be to really consider what YOU want, what you CAN give, and not think of "shoulds" and "musts." And yes, starting a statement with "I feel" is a great step on the road to assertion.

I wish you much luck!

[Aqua Blue]

Stella, basically I have liked you on this forum, but I do feel very unjustly judged by you right now. First this was just an example, it is my problem. I say yes and end up doing way too much and then way later start feeling resentful towards a person and am not sure why. then I exam it and realize it is because I said yes earlier and then ended up doing way more than I could physically do. I was looking for advice on how to stop that way at the beginning so I don't feel angry at that person. I regret giving that as an example because people focused on that. It just happened to be the one I was currently struggling with.

I would agree that maybe having a baby hit her for a loop, but you know Fibro has hit me for a loop too. What bugs me about that whole thing is both of my brothers can see that something might be too much for their wives, but they are totally incapable of seeing that maybe I am not the same person I was at 30 either. Sometimes I think they see me as Mom, not as their sister. Maybe I can't do it all. I have helped them tons, made the 20+ mile trip to their house with formula one evening because they ran out and they were too tired to come to town. Another time I made the same round trip with a thermometer for the baby. MY house is in the town they work in and they live about 20 miles out. They both have keys and she came over many times to rest before she went and bought groceries or whatever after work. They stayed at my house one night when the baby was sick and they wanted to be closer to town. I have made many many meals on the spur of the moment because they stopped over and were too tired to cook, this happened a lot when she was preganant. But no one has made me a meal or brought Mcd over when they have known I was exhausted from a fibro flare or been in bed for 3 days with a migraine. And that is probably my fault, I grew up with toughing it out. I am the one that needs to change what I am willing to do.

Actually just yesterday I took the baby so they could go out to supper for SIL birthday. Then they came back for the cake I baked and ice cream. My fibro has recently been so flared I can hardly hold the baby.

I would never give the Subway cards, but even you have talked about revenge on here...and that was what that was for me. (and actually if I gave the Subway cards they wouldn't get it -they would just think I wasn't too creative with gifts) It wasn't at all that they happened to be out. Brother with new baby told me specifically that they took them out to a nicer restraunt because they had brought those two expensive trays of meat and cheese. I have been too polite to say how much I spent.

As I think of this, I remember my FormerMIL saying how her kids didn't get that some things were too much for her to do now, like big holiday meals, keeping the grandkids for a week. I think that aging thing has caught up with me a little sooner than some other people because of the health issues.

[mtnlaurel]

Aqua Blue - what a mess, and I say that because when I read your post, it's as if I had written it. I so relate to your feelings. You are not alone.

Here are the questions that come to my mind - and you don't have to answer them on this post:
- What is it that you want from your brothers?
- Can you voice it to them in a loving way?
- If your bro hadn't had the baby would he be any more available to assist you as you are getting used to your new health situation?

Ultimately, you have to draw a line on the past and let that bullet point list go.
And from that line moving forward you must advocate for yourself and ask specifically in a kind way for what you need - the worst they could say would be no and that's perfectly fine.
(and when I say 'you', I mean 'me too' :)

Your family obviously loves you very much, even if your bros are a little socially aloof - boys are kind of dense that way sometimes.
I'm guessing you may be the older sister?, as your behavior sounds exactly like mine - make sure all the younger siblings are taken care of -- and my situation always felt much more acute because I was raised in an alcoholic home and I am totally screwball in so many areas b/c of it.

Is there an online fibro group that you could use for support too?

Get some good rest - sleep/pray/meditate on it for a week and see what you come up with on how to move forward.

[Anne Lee]

Ah, yes. Family tends to take other family for granted, especially if that's the way it's always done. Give yourself permission to start scaling back. Your family will adjust or find other ways of coping.

May I suggest a script?

Send an email that says something to the effect of:

Hey all, I just wanted to give you a head's up. The fibro has been really bad lately and my body is telling me I need to dial it back some. I don't know just yet what all that will entail, I'm going to have feel my way on what I can and cannot do. I'll still be happy to help as I'm able but I just wanted to let you know that it won't be as much as before. Doesn't it suck to grow old? Prayers and good thoughts appreciated!

Love,
Aqua Blue

I am guessing that this will be the wakeup call that your fibro really is as bad as you say. People won't understand just how debilitating it is till you are actually debilitated. There's something to be said for having the grit to tough it out, but there's something to be said for taking the space you need too.

Also, I should emphasize to send this out BEFORE you undertake any new commitments or get asked any favors. Like today or tomorrow. Then the next time some situation comes up, you can reference the email and say "Gosh, I'm sorry but I just can't."

Setting the boundary proactively may seem like hubris but my experience is that waiting to set the boundary until they ask you to do something is much harder - at least with family. If they aren't used to being turned down, there is always the potential for shock and hurt. But if they know you are going to start saying no then at least that element is taken out of it.

[Aqua Blue]

Aqua Blue - what a mess, and I say that because when I read your post, it's as if I had written it. I so relate to your feelings. You are not alone.

Here are the questions that come to my mind - and you don't have to answer them on this post:
- What is it that you want from your brothers?
- Can you voice it to them in a loving way?
- If your bro hadn't had the baby would he be any more available to assist you as you are getting used to your new health situation?

Ultimately, you have to draw a line on the past and let that bullet point list go.
And from that line moving forward you must advocate for yourself and ask specifically in a kind way for what you need - the worst they could say would be no and that's perfectly fine.
(and when I say 'you', I mean 'me too' :)

Your family obviously loves you very much, even if your bros are a little socially aloof - boys are kind of dense that way sometimes.
I'm guessing you may be the older sister?, as your behavior sounds exactly like mine - make sure all the younger siblings are taken care of -- and my situation always felt much more acute because I was raised in an alcoholic home and I am totally screwball in so many areas b/c of it.

Is there an online fibro group that you could use for support too?

Get some good rest - sleep/pray/meditate on it for a week and see what you come up with on how to move forward.

Thanks, ours was an alcoholic family with other disfunction too. I am the oldest! I feel screwed up re boundries. I was most certainly the caregiver. I think that is why I don't speak up at first and then get in trouble later. It seems like I am being a good sister or friend or co worker or participant in a group. Going the extra mile to help make it good and then all of a sudden I have given way to much and have nothing left for me. Then I feel used. My head knows that isn't right, but I can't seem to step out of the dance.

Basically we get along well and like and help each other(at least I think we do>8)). I think my brother would be chigrinned if he knew how much I spent and how little he thanked me. I know guys are sorta clueless. I am also a good shopper and usually get by with very little. I think he told me that because he did think I had spent a whole lot less and actually I kinda think he thought I should pay my other brother something. I think they probably took them out to a nice supper because I didn't do anything to even the expenses. That is all just my guess.:|( The two brothers are together a lot more and I can see my other brother just happening to let him know how much it cost him in the hopes he would pass it on to me.

I didn't want to talk money because I feel like I am always the one trying to rein in cost because I am frugal. I actually think I ended up looking cheap instead of frugal :0! this time. I also wanted to do something nice for them.

I also wanted SIL with the baby to feel special. She doesn't have any family anywhere around and I wanted her to feel cared for and included in our family

Like I said earlier I probably need to talk to brother with baby sometime just to clear the air. I also think I need to realize that I have changed physically and while I would like to think I still can take on a big project, be it a shower at my house or some social activity with freinds or club members those days are over. Hopefully I can learn to volunteer for a small part so I feel like a part of the group and then not get sucked in over my head!

[Stella]

[QUOTE=Aqua Blue;48714]Stella, basically I have liked you on this forum, but I do feel very unjustly judged by you right now. QUOTE]

I like you too Aqua Blue. I apologize that I have offended you. I did not mean to. I am operating on about 3 hours of sleep so it is possible I have not clearly expressed what I meant to say. I know for myself, and believe me I have struggled with doing too much, the biggest help in relieving resentment is to try to imagine the other person's point of view, no holds barred. I'll use an example from my own life since that will not be as emotional.

When my oldest was a baby I had a very bizzare altercation with my SIL, DH's brother's sister. The crux of it is that a mutual friend of DH and I heard me trying to calm DH after a tiff with his brother by saying teasingly "He's your older brother. Let it go. All older siblings think they're your mother" (for the record I am an oldest kid and I totally think that applies to me as well. :) ). By the time it got to my SIL I had apparently told DH that she was just like our mutual MIL, who she hates, ironically because she flies off the handle about strange things. Instead of trying to talk to me about it she flew into a rage, busted down my door and physically attacked me. Later, instead of saying she was sorry she tried to get DH's grandma, who was both of our landlady, to kick us out of our apartment.

It took a little distance from the situation, but when I realized that my anger was really toxic to me, I started trying to come up with a way to forgive her. Not easy because she was not sorry. I started trying to think of things from her perspective. First, she was 20 year old, a new mom herself and very, very insecure of her place in the family, including with her DH. She had an alcoholic mother and a history of people being nice to her face and stabbing her in the back. I think she suffered from some severe post-partum depression and just snapped. I could see, on reflection, how things I had done that I thought were totally harmless, could have been interpreted as threatening or disrespectful to someone who came from a different background and had a different perspective. I could see how, through the lense of her experience I was the bad guy. I could see how being 20 and immature and feeling that now because of her rash act her home was treatened, she would seek to remove the threat.

I'm not saying that her reaction was OK, I'm saying that I understand where it comes from. That made it much, much easier not to take it personally, and even in subsequent years to treat her with compassion and kindness. It has also made me examine how my own perspective can be skewed for the worse when I am under stress or angry. While her transgression was pretty extreme, I know for sure that I have done similar things in varying degrees and have since made a lot of efforts to change that.

A year and a half ago my FIL (also her FIL) gave me all of the jewlery that had belonged to his mother, who raised both of our husbands when their mom left. He made a joke about her being jealous because I got everything and I immediately knew that I had to make a point of giving her some of it. Over the year and a half since I got it I have been thinking about what to give her. Initially I just wanted to give her one ring I wasn't especially fond of. As time has gone on and the date of the trip in which we will see her is getting close, I have decided to keep only the one ring FIL and DH really wanted me to have and give the rest to her. I have a lot of jewlery and don't need it. I'm telling you this because since I made that decision I feel so incredibly free. The decision to take her actions in the best spirit possible has made it easy for me to give her these things in genuine love and goodwill. That's what I'm trying to say. The more I ruminate about how I was wronged, and think about my right to be angry and look for reasons to be angry again, the more miserable I am, and it almost never affects the other party much.

My point in mentioning that she may have been thrown for a loop isn't to say that you haven't been. It's that reaching out in compassion when it's not your first inclination is healing for everyone. Instead of seeing your challenges as opposing, it can be helpful to use your experience of your challenges to respond to someone with forgiveness and understanding. I remember once being so ticked off at a car that was driving like a maniac and scared the living daylights out of me. Until the car turned into the hospital ER. I just think it's good to keep in mind that there are often factors in a situation we haven't considered.

The truth is that your brothers are probably always going to be more aware of their wives limitations than they are of yours. It's just easier to see the limitations of someone you see every day and husbands and wives have a level of intimacy that allows them to express that kind of thing at a whole different level than brothers and sisters can. Other people take their cues on what you can handle from you.

This is just a shot in the dark based on my own life, but I know that I often think I can handle things I can't and then feel bad asking for help. In addition to not getting into situations that are too much I have found that sometimes it's helpful to just admit to people that I got in over my head a bit and ask them to help. Using your example, you could pull the brother with the meat trays aside at the party and say, "My fibromyalgia is really starting to flare up. Would you and SIL mind helping me clean up?" Most people will say yes without a hesitation, but they might not offer it if you don't ask. People don't necessarily mean to be thoughtless, they're just caught up in their own stuff.

As sort of a P.S. I truly don't remember talking about revenge, at least in the last 5-6 years as it's something I've been specifically working on. If there is a specific incident you remember I would consider it a kindness if you would remind me. I am making a point to confess these things and make amends.

[Zoebird]

I agree that stella's approach can help a whole lot.

another thing is that fibro is very confusing to people who do not have it. honestly, we don't 'get' it -- you can explain until you are bright magenta and yellow, and we still won't 'get it.' it's a very confusing disorder, and soemthings will bother you and other things won't. that's just how it rolls out.

so, making boundaries for yourself early on is good. watching how you feel -- physically and emotionally -- and backing yourself off when you need to and not necessarily apologizing for it. You know, you can say something like "hi, i really can't go beyond this point, I'm concerned for my health."

They may not get it, and they may get mad, but you will feel better, and they'll learn the new boundary and be ok. :)

[Aqua Blue]

Stella, sorry for saying that you were vengeful. When I reread my comments that is exactly what it sounds like. I meant it in a much more general tone. I believe we all use a playful "well I'll just do 'x' to get back at them" as aplayful way to diffuse a hurt.

I think if anything I am too kind to others and not kind to myself. IRL I am the person who tries to make occassions really really special for people. I did not want my DB and SIL to feel bad about the shower in any way. I wanted it to be a special day for them, so I kept my mouth shut.

Any how, I think I should have never posted this whole thing and I really wish I had used a different example. Lesson learned. I will go back to lurking, which is what I previously did. I don't think I am able to express myself very well in written word. But, Thanks for all the ideas.

I think what I have come a step closer in acknowledging is that I am not the physically capable person I used to be. I need to respect that and look out of myself. I especially appreciated the comment about volunteering for a very specific task-not an open ended help. That will be my starting point and will see how it goes from there.

[Zoebird]

I think it's a fine example, and I think you communicated well overall, so I wouldn't be overworried about it. I never assumed that you wanted anything from what you gave, but when gifts were given as a form of "mirror" to what was received, of course your feelings were hurt when something that cost half the amount and took very little effort were gifted with surf and turf, and you were given half a $5 sammich.

I can completely see why you were hurt and frustrated. I've totally been there as well. In all seriousness, having an alcoholic/drug addict in the family makes everyone crazy. My SIL is like this. She gets spoiled like crazy, and we couldn't figure it out.

Example, christmas. She walks away with easily $2k in goodies, and i am given a bic pen (from a package of pens) and a roll of film (i don't own a camera that uses film), and my husband was given a sweatshirt and orange juice coupons.

We were like "but we are the good kids!" we both work, we live within our means, we have no consumer debt, we go to church (quaker at that point) on sunday, we have no drug or alcohol problems, blah blah blah.

easily, my ILs spent about $200k on SIL's various issues and infractions -- legal fees, drug treatment centers, housing her, picking up her rent and such when she couldn't pay, buying her food, clothes, etc, supporting her when she got fired for being drunk on the job, etc. Also, they bought her not one, not two, but THREE cars in 5 years (the other two being wrecked in drunk driving accidents). Paid in cash, outright, and gave it to her!

these folks are loathe to LOAN us $500 when we had an unexpected bill, but whatever SIL wanted, she got.

We went out of our way to accommodate them when they came over and visited, and we went out of our way to go and see them -- usually to be given a $5 sammich in return.

I totally understand how FRUSTRATING it all is.

I wasn't living within my means or having a job so that my ILs would praise me, and I wasn't making thanksgiving extra special so that I would get a good "thank you" gift or whatever. I did it because I wanted to and I wanted them (and myself) to have a good experience, for it to be special.

But when you spend your whole budget on a christmas gift that you think your MIL will really like, and another on your FIL -- when you have NO budget for these things -- and you cook some fancy food for the christmas meal to share, and you travel well out of your way on your half-day off to get to their holiday, to be given a bic pen from a package, a roll of film, and essentially get picked on for not being "as good as" orw ahtever as SIL. . .

it hurts.

I've been learning for many years now how not to be hurt by them. And the only thing I could really change was me. I had to set limits on myself so that I could enjoy them and not get resentful.

(ironically, not only did we not have a camera that used film, but the pen was out of ink, and we dont' drink juice. So we got a sweatshirt for christmas that year.)

[bagelgirl]

Zoebird, thanks for plucking this discussion out of the realm of the "forgive all" saints who had hijacked it. It was obvious that Aqua felt misunderstood when, in fact, her feelings were the perfectly normal ones.

Basically, Aqua, I would like to say cut back on doing stuff for your brothers and their families. The don't appreciate it and nothing you do will make it that way.

[Stella]

Zoebird, thanks for plucking this discussion out of the realm of the "forgive all" saints who had hijacked it.

Wow! That was hurtful. Aqua Blue posted about feeling resentful and angry and wanting to find solutions. I was just trying to share my own experiences with feeling resentful and angry and what has helped me feel better. I don't see how that, even if you disagree with me and have had different experiences and ideas, constitues hijacking. That's why people post on message boards, to get a variety of opinions and ideas. Why do you feel that only your thoughts and views are valid?

[leslieann]

My experience with resentment (many years of deep seated, carefully held-onto resentment) was that I made a big discovery. When I was getting what I needed (NEEDED) then I didn't resent other people trying to get their needs met.

Hugely difficult to figure out 1) that I needed anything, 2) what it was that would really REALLY fill that need, and 3) how to meet my need without imposing it on other people. Therapy helped a lot.

Resentment often looks like judgment of other people, too, whether we think that they are "holier-than-thou" or perhaps that they don't work hard enough. I remember clearly being absolutely rageful when I was 23 and a working mom of a baby that didn't sleep. I worked in daycare and one of the mothers used to bring her four year old on her day off so she (mom) could have time to herself. I was enraged and righteously angry about this (as if it had anything at all to do with me). But it was all about my own inability to see that I needed time to myself and to make that okay.

Anyway, given the nature and tone and trajectory of this thread my comment might not be helpful. But I try hard when I am feeling a little PO'd or resentful to see what I am not getting (or giving to myself).

Peace to all.

[lhamo]

I also struggle with feelings of resentment and being unappreciated -- for me it surfaces most often and most strongly in my relationship with my husband. I often feel he doesn't appreciate all I do to keep our house and family life running smoothly, in addition to having a full-time job that has its own periods of high-stress activity. ONe thing I am coming to learn about him, and me, and I think it applies to other people too, is that you can't expect people to see things from your point of view and be mind readers. If you have needs you need to communicate them. AB, you said a few posts up that you feel frustrated that your brothers can apparently see that their wives need extra help and support, but that they don't see that you need the same thing. I am guessing, based on my own marriage and lots of others I have seen, that the brothers probably DON'T just magically intuit that their wives need help -- the wives are probably telling them all the time! You don't see those interactions, just as my family doesn't see all the tear-filled discussions I have had with my DH about feeling unappreciated and overworked. From the outside everything looks hunky dory and people are amazed at how involved and helpful my DH is with the kids, etc. And he is great with them, when he chooses to be. But more often than not it is me helping with the homework, me keeping track of the kids schedules, me spending time with them so he can work or relax, me doing all the shopping, me paying all the bills, me making sure we have toilet paper, me calling the building management to get something dealt with. He makes the kids breakfast and takes them to school so that I can leave for work early and avoid Beijing's nightmare traffic, and somehow that one hour a day five days a week makes him superdad and I'm supposed to do everything else. Am I sounding resentful? Heh. That wasn't the point of this post. But it does show how the resentment can build up. I tend to be like you. At the time it doesn't bother me, but over weeks and months it builds up and some time later I have one of my "why doesn't anyone appreciate me?" meltdowns. It isn't healthy for me personally, or for our marriage or family life. So I am working on speaking up about my needs when I recognize them. I ask him to take more responsibility for certain things and explain why I am asking him -- noting that I am busy with OTHER things and he is in a better position to get something done. It's hard and sometimes I still resent having to ask, but at least it helps me keep from letting that steam build up to the blow up point.

I can't imagine trying to deal with a chronic illness that complicates the dynamic even more, and I'm not trying to heap more "shoulds" on you. LIving in the land of should is another problem I struggle with. But I hope that hearing that someone else struggles with these feelings and reactions helps. I think it's normal, but it's not healthy. Speaking up for yourself and setting firmer limits for yourself and others may be hard, but it is important and worth working on, for your own sake if nothing else.

lhamo

[JaneV2.0]

I took a course called Marriage and Family for a psych credit--and because my bf at the time thought it would be a good idea. Very early on, the instructor intoned: "There is no such thing as fifty-fifty in marriage. Someone gives 75%, and usually it's the wife." Although the dynamic was reversed in my family, that stuck with me. Needless to say, the class backfired on the bf.

I'd do the Subway gift card, personally, and keep my distance.

[iris lily]

Some people really do NOT do things for recognition. That not my motivator. I do things that interest me. So I'm not really an angel for forgiving people's reactions, I am largely indifferent to them. I guess that pretty much makes me a princess? but in my hobby groups I'm a pack horse, but one with firm boundaries. I know how to negotiate what I will and will not do. As far as the social stuff (like giving parties) I don't do it often any more, but when I do, it's for the fun of it.

[mtnlaurel]

My sister and I have noticed that women seem to come in 1 of 2 categories - Princesses or Pack Horses. My sister and I both see ourselves as the later and are stunned by some of our girlfriend's lameness.

I am going to retract the narrowness of my statement above. I have been thinking about it for the past couple of days and even me, the self-declared Pack Horse, clocks in at various places of my made-up scale in any given situation.


Any how, I think I should have never posted this whole thing and I really wish I had used a different example. Lesson learned. I will go back to lurking, which is what I previously did. I don't think I am able to express myself very well in written word. But, Thanks for all the ideas.

AB, I've gotten a ton out of this discussion and appreciate you opening up your garbage can for us to sift through. It's hard - even though this is the most anonymous of places, it still pains me to put stuff out there sometimes. I do like the variety of feedback folks get though - definitely plenty to choose from. As they say, 'Take what you like and leave the rest'

[Aqua Blue]

I am going to retract the narrowness of my statement above. I have been thinking about it for the past couple of days and even me, the self-declared Pack Horse, clocks in at various places of my made-up scale in any given situation.
Actually I tend to classify women in those two categories also.:|( I probably shouldn't, but I do. I and my sister would fall into the later also. You're right tho, occasionally I clock in at other places:D



AB, I've gotten a ton out of this discussion and appreciate you opening up your garbage can for us to sift through. It's hard - even though this is the most anonymous of places, it still pains me to put stuff out there sometimes. I do like the variety of feedback folks get though - definitely plenty to choose from. As they say, 'Take what you like and leave the rest'

Thanks for this comment, that is where I was. One thing, I get over things faster now. I am ok with it.

[Amaranth]

One additional thing that might help would be to have a planning session for 2012 with the whole family during the holidays. Talk about what family events and projects you'd all like to have/do. Plan also for the average number of crises the family tends to have per year. Then consider and then talk about how to share out the workload and expenses. Be specific about time and costs. "The last baby shower took 150 hours of work to prep for and cost $300 in expenses. Do we want to do that again or something that is equally as fun but less work?" If it looks like something is going to be too much physically or financially for a given period of time, brainstorm ways to have as much fun or ways to complete a project that work better under the circumstances.

Also consider consolidating events where possible. For example everyone goes to the town where 8 year old niece Susie is having a birthday party from 2-4 in the afternoon and participates in that. Then the inlaws on the other side babysit the grandchildren while the adults go out to dinner and celebrate brother Bob’s birthday which is really in 3 weeks.

[Zoebird]

that's good advice, amaranth.

one way that i better managed my expectations and experiences with my ILs is by making sure that everything is strictly contained. It used to be a visit with them would be 3 days of tedium (and also being picked on and judged the whole time), and i managed to get each visit down to several hours.

i also initiated the idea of "combined" visits -- DH and SIL's birthdays are two weeks apart, so we'd do one event in the middle for both. BIL's and GMIL's birthdays are also two weeks apart, so we would combine those. And then we did thanksgiving and christmas. This helped ME a lot. I set a strict budget on what i would spend per person, and started doing "home-made" gifts (which the family values).

this decreased the effort. I also let go of expectations of being treated well or accepted or getting nice gifts (though sometimes they do give nice gifts -- which is a nice surprise).

[JaneV2.0]

"My sister and I have noticed that women seem to come in 1 of 2 categories - Princesses or Pack Horses. My sister and I both see ourselves as the later and are stunned by some of our girlfriend's lameness." (mtnlaurel)

I think of the two categories as those who pull the wagon and those who ride, not limited to either gender. Riders generally know exactly what they're doing, in my experience.

[Suzanne]

I'm with Jane! And now that I'm learning how to patrol my boundaries, sometimes I just do a horse laugh while the would-be-riders sit flabbergasted...once I heard a minister describe Christian as being of two categories: pillars and caterpillars.

AB, I'm sorry you're feeling battered and put-down. Sometimes we just need a pat and a hug, and a heartfelt, "That must have been hurtful for you."

[Fawn]

"I think of the two categories as those who pull the wagon and those who ride, not limited to either gender. Riders generally know exactly what they're doing, in my experience.

I think that those who pull the wagon generally know what they are doing too. And get something out of it: and sense of competence, currency in the relationship, etc. The dissonance occurs when we don't get what we expected.

I think that is where Aqua Blue is, and she is asking for help in changing the dynamic.

Excellent discussion.