Separating self-worth from "worth"

[frugalone]

My flagging self-esteem needs some advice/help.

No matter what I accomplish in my personal life (like having curated an exhibit on vintage hats at our local historical society, which made me feel like a million bucks), I still find myself equating my self-worth with having a job.

And when I had a job, if the job wasn't what I felt it could/should be, I put myself down for not having a "dream job."

Now that I've been out of work for two years, keeping my spirits up and not feeling totally worthless is becoming a big challenge. And the funny thing is? I crave FI. I don't even want a real job--unless it is fulfilling. It's kind of like saying, "I don't want to get married; I just want to be proposed to."

Am I making sense here?

Does anyone have similar thoughts? I would love some advice, too. Thank you for listening.

[Marianne]

I can empathize. It's sad that in our society, so many are judged by their profession, or lack of one.

I was offered a somewhat crappy job years ago. I felt like I needed to take it just to say that I was employed somewhere, plus the extra money sure would have helped. A friend almost yelled at me "ARE YOU CRAZY??" She went on for a couple minutes about how lucky I was that we were getting by without a paycheck from me, etc. It took a while before I could change my attitude, but eventually I was able to say 'I don't have to work' (with a smile) when people asked where I worked.

When I started my online business, it was almost embarassing to tell people about it. They looked at me with that 'you poor dear' look, like I was trying to sell flea market finds on Ebay for a living. I finally gave up and said that I was in marketing, or sales. Oh, by the way, I have no problem w/ anyone selling stuff on Ebay, I didn't mean to sound offensive.

It is interesting that our son and others like him, travel the world, living on next to nothing, with NO job...and a lot of people wish they could do the same thing. People like that are respected because of their sheer guts to try something different, I guess.

[Lainey]

I think I understand, ladyinblack1964. It's one reason why I don't ask people I meet for the first time: "what do you do?" It's a standard ice-breaker in our culture, but I think it also lets people stereotype you, unconsciously or not. I answer if I'm asked, but then I turn to other topics like events in the news, etc. that I think are way more interesting.

I think if everyone made that change and just stopped defining people on their work life, then we could all get to know each other for who we truly are.

Reminds me of a sign I saw painted on a bedsheet and hung on a damaged house after a hurricane had hit the neighborhood: "We Are Not What We Own." I just loved that, and I'd alter it slightly to say "We are not what we do" and then tattoo that on every adult's forearm.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I don't believe paid work is worth. Some paid work does good, much is probably not necessary, and some even does harm (though I stay away from anything I think is outright harmful).

But there is a vulnerability I experienced in unemployment that is hard to describe. I felt way more NEEDY of other people's good opinion. I don't know maybe it was like some kind of primitive thing ... if I CAN'T take care of myself (ie find work!) then who will take care of me afterall? Need to be liked by the tribe ..... in hopes the tribe won't let you starve etc.. (there was of course no immanent danger of starvation, but like I said it may trigger off some very primitive not entirely rational emotions). Need to be perceived as a good person .... if you end up poor (because of inability to ever find a job) have to be a nice virtuous deserving poor .... need to be liked, above all must be liked ....

I mean I suddenly cared what my mom thought of classes I spent my money on while unemployed in case I had to come to her years later for a bailout, it was years before I'd run at of money (and even though in my mind the classes had *some* moneymaking potential). I suddenly cared what my mom thought about a lot more than that really! It was like ... I hope mom likes me. I wouldn't want her to disapprove of anything I did. Now talk about regression to a much younger age :). This is NOT ME, when I'm employed. I'm not like that!

Income is what it has always been from day one of declaring my independence from my parents. My ticket to tell the world 'F you" about any other aspect of my life. Oh you don't like how I live, what I spend my money on, who I hang out with, what I believe, what I think, who I admire, "F you", what's it to you, it's my money and my life ... etc..

I also felt very strongly in need of human companionship in general while unemployed, which may really be a positive, but the extreme need for approval was not a positive.

I've been unemployed before without flipping out to such a degree, just feared this time might be much worse for various reasons (the economy chief among them).

[herbgeek]

think I understand, ladyinblack1964. It's one reason why I don't ask people I meet for the first time: "what do you do?" It's a standard ice-breaker in our culture, but I think it also lets people stereotype you, unconsciously or not. I answer if I'm asked, but then I turn to other topics like events in the news, etc. that I think are way more interesting.

After one too many conversations where someone would go on at length without taking a break describing all the boring pieces of their job, I stopped asking the "what do you do?" question to strangers. Instead I ask, "what do you do for fun?". This often gets people much more energized and excited and engaged. And well, if they don't do anything fun, they probably aren't people I'd want to talk to at length anyhow. :laff:

To address LadyInBlack's dilemma, let me suggest finding an activity to do with retired people. I started with a weekday hiking group. The topic of what do you do rarely comes up, other than them wondering why I'm available during the day. They have so many other interesting things to talk about, that I feel really comfortable.

[happystuff]

Don't know if this will help or not, but things with "worth" are only those things you place value on. While I have a job and I value my job and my job has worth... my job is not the ONLY thing in my life from which I get a sense of worth or that adds value to my life. In other worse, I am more than my job - much more! If your job is not adding value to your life at the moment, find something in addition to your job that will.

Good luck.

[Stella]

herbgeek my dad has a friend that starts out with the question, "what do you do for fun?" It was so refreshing!

I have had to sort through a lot of emotions about not being employed, or not being employed full-time depending on the circumstances. I was employed full-time for only two years and pulled the plug on that when I was 23.

At first I felt like you do, like there was something wrong with me. As ANM points out, I felt like I had to make myself likeable and "worthy" in other ways. It has taken time, but it doesn't really bother me anymore. I think it helps that I live in an area with a lot of people who don't work full-time by choice, so I've seen a lot of really cool people who I see as having a lot of value apart from a job. For some reason in my neighborhood it's pretty common to find early retirees, couples each working part-time and SAHPs.

I think it was harder when I was 23 and most people did see me as lazy or crazy. A decade later I've been making it work long enough that most people aren't as bothered by it. I did have the aunt of a friend assume I was on welfare because I have 4 kids + one on the way and my husband works a blue collar job. She refused to believe that we could really live on that, even not having a house payment or a car payment and having union health insurance through the off season. 10 years ago I would have been royally pissed off. Now I think that says a lot more about her than it does about me.

It sounds like you do a lot of valuable things with your time. Volunteering at the Historical Society sounds like so much fun! It takes time, but eventually you will start to see yourself differently.

[JaneV2.0]

I can empathize. It's sad that in our society, so many are judged by their profession, or lack of one.

...

When I started my online business, it was almost embarassing to tell people about it. They looked at me with that 'you poor dear' look, like I was trying to sell flea market finds on Ebay for a living. I finally gave up and said that I was in marketing, or sales. Oh, by the way, I have no problem w/ anyone selling stuff on Ebay, I didn't mean to sound offensive.
...

I've done quite a few things I could rightly be proud of, and--perhaps unaccountably--one of them is selling an interesting applique'd vest (Value Village for 99 cents) on eBay for over forty dollars. But I come from family and friends who regularly buy flea-market and thrift store finds and re-sell them. Marketing and sales, just like you say...;)

I've elevated underachievement to practically an art form, not coincidentally. My accomplishment arc pretty much reached its apogee before I reached adulthood...

[catherine]

I recently visited some old college friends. One of them hosted a dinner at her house: absolutely lovely, homey house, not expensively decorated, but very tastefully. Dinner was delicious. Ambience was impeccable. Conversation was light and fun. Her pictures of her 5 children covered the stairwell walls. The family is very close--two of the brothers have their own business together. I kept thinking, "no way am I inviting her to MY house!"--I'd be a bit embarrassed.

My house often suffers from some benign neglect partly because I'm a "working woman" but also because I simply am not talented in that area. I do take some pride in my work accomplishments, but I've always really wanted to be like my friend: able to whip up a domestic environment like that (and I KNOW no one "whips up" a home--just like tennis pros, pro domestic goddesses make it look easy--but it's not).

So, imagine my surprise when that friend and I were talking and she said "I've always felt inadequate because I never had a job. I've always been a stay-at-home mom." (Some of our other college friends from our all-girl Catholic school have wound up with "good" jobs--some with what you might call status) My jaw dropped. I asked her if she had considered her great success in mothering, nurturing, homemaking.

We all have head trips on why we aren't good enough. For her, she isn't good enough because she never did what I do. For me, I'm not good enough because I never did what she does.

We are who are--so why apologize for that? What we do is not who we are.

[frugalone]

Thank you, everyone.

On the elderly/retired: I remember going out to eat with my mom (74) and her friends two years ago right after I lost my job, and worrying "what if they ask me what I do for a living?" Well, guess what? They didn't. The subject didn't even come up!

I too have a friend who is a domestic goddess, and she sometimes feels like she "should be" doing something--even though she takes care of her grandsons so her daughter can start her teaching career, and still has a son at home, and takes care of house and hubby.

Thank you, too, for the compliment. Our historical society is really broke and trying to operate on half the staff and funding it used to have. I feel that what I'm doing is important--way more important than working at the rich kids' college where I was last employed.

Thanks, everyone, for your advice and support.

[chord_ata]

Our society only values measurable economic productivity. As part of your evolutionarily evolved capacity to remain connected with the tribe, you are unconciously (and conciously) recognizing your disconnect with the 'current' rules for tribal validation.

Modern society is not willing to provide an antidote for that. So far, the best validation/antidote I have seen is the perspective offered by Buddhist/Zen meditation practice. It's central precepts pretty much turn our societal views on their head without getting into any blame games that theistic thought tends to get into.

[Spartana]

Well I have a WAY overblown sense of self-worth - based on nothing I've done to earn it :-)! I've been work-free for over 12 years now so don't get any validation from that quarter. And because I had made both personal and professional choices (chosen when it was considered a somewhat unconventional life for a woman) I got WAY more grief and disrespect then kudos and acolades in my life. So I base my self worth only on how I view myself - not how other's see me. First, I don't really care what they think so don't need them to validate my lifestyle choices. Second, I am a bit of a rebel and have always enjoyed pushing the envelope on social rules as far as possible just to make a point (and often at my own detriment :-) and often to make people squirm a bit and to hopefully try to get them to see things in a broader, less traditional way, as being a valide choice. So my only suggestion is for you to dig deep with in yourself and find that self-validation. Look for what you like about yourself as a person, not for what you've done. Write out a list of characteristics in people you admire that has nothing to do with their job or their activities - brave, nobel, honorable, trustworthy, loyal, kind, etc... - and find those things within yourself to be proud of. If someone asks "what do you do for a living" just tell them you are currently unemployed (there is no shame in that) and change the subject. To me, your self worth should not be tied to your job, or your kids, or your house or belongings. Your self worth is about the qualities you have within yourself to be the person you admire. And even though there was a time when my job was all-encompassing, I never did define myself by that job. I defined my self by my character.

[lhamo]

I haven't faced unemployment, but I did have something of a life crisis a few years ago when my old employer tried to cut my salary substantially. It wasn't so much the money -- it would have been a 25% reduction in my previous full time salary, but I had only been working PT (supposedly the equivalent of 3 days/week -- actually worked more than that) for the prior year, so my take home pay would have gone up from what I was getting. It was that the pay cut symbolized the end of my upward trajectory and future at that organization. I hit the glass ceiling, hard, and it hurt something awful. I fought it, got my old salary back, but that was the beginning of the end for me there and I was gone within six months. Ironically, I eventually ended up taking a job where the salary was about what they wanted to cut mine to at the previous place. But it was different, as I knew going in that that was all they had in the budget. Through hard work and good performance, I have gotten decent raises and bonuses every year, and also have better benefits. So I am about back up to where I was package-wise when I left the old place.

So, I guess what I am saying is that paid work and salary are important identity signposts for me, personally, but that being respected and appreciated is also very important. I would not work again for a dysfunctional organization like the one I left for any amount of money.

lhamo

[Acorn]

Liked this quote from this article:

"For all the efforts to raise hyper-achievers, we didn’t teach enough of a basic survival skill — to find joy in simple things not connected to a grade, a trophy or a job."

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/boomer-parents-lament/?hp

[frugalone]

I am applauding! This is a great post, and I admire your attitude!


Well I have a WAY overblown sense of self-worth - based on nothing I've done to earn it :-)! I've been work-free for over 12 years now so don't get any validation from that quarter. And because I had made both personal and professional choices (chosen when it was considered a somewhat unconventional life for a woman) I got WAY more grief and disrespect then kudos and acolades in my life. So I base my self worth only on how I view myself - not how other's see me. First, I don't really care what they think so don't need them to validate my lifestyle choices. Second, I am a bit of a rebel and have always enjoyed pushing the envelope on social rules as far as possible just to make a point (and often at my own detriment :-) and often to make people squirm a bit and to hopefully try to get them to see things in a broader, less traditional way, as being a valide choice. So my only suggestion is for you to dig deep with in yourself and find that self-validation. Look for what you like about yourself as a person, not for what you've done. Write out a list of characteristics in people you admire that has nothing to do with their job or their activities - brave, nobel, honorable, trustworthy, loyal, kind, etc... - and find those things within yourself to be proud of. If someone asks "what do you do for a living" just tell them you are currently unemployed (there is no shame in that) and change the subject. To me, your self worth should not be tied to your job, or your kids, or your house or belongings. Your self worth is about the qualities you have within yourself to be the person you admire. And even though there was a time when my job was all-encompassing, I never did define myself by that job. I defined my self by my character.

[Spartana]

I am applauding! This is a great post, and I admire your attitude!

Thanks! Of course it is easier said then done. It IS hard to go against the tide but I have found that it not only gives me greater strenght, but opens my mind to accepting other people based on their merits irregarless of their job, where or how they live, how educated they are, etc... Spending pretty much all my life, even as a young kid, sort of bucking that tide of expectations (and limitations) that people had for me, and doing things most didn't think worthy for me, was hard but worth it (hey, that's another "worthy" thing ha Ha!).