View Full Version : Should Paterno Resign?
I can't get over the idea that Joe Paterno was told of a former assistant coach sexually abusing a young boy inside the Penn State locker room and all he did was to tell his boss. In Paterno's defense the law seems to only require that he report this to the athletic director, his boss, who is supposed to then take the appropriate actions. That is the bare minimum legal requirement, but shouldn't we expect more? We certainly should expect more from Tim Curley, the athletic director, who apparently swept this under the rug rather than report it to the police.
Everyone involved will get their day in court, but there seems to be little doubt that at least this one incident did happen: In 2002 Jerry Sandusky, the former assistant coach was caught naked in the shower with a boy approx. 10 years of age by the graduate assistant who reported this to Paterno. Sandusky's innocence or guilt will be decided in court. What bothers me is that regardless of what was really happening there was every reason to believe a child might be/have been harmed. If reported the worst case is that an innocent man would have been accused of a crime he did not commit, investigated and life would have gone on. That is a terrible thing for that man and his family, but pales in comparison to what allegedly did happen. Seven other young men have stepped forward to accuse Sandusky of abuse. Authorities expect more will. Some of those alleged abuses happened after the 2002 incident. The implication is obvious.
Questions raised include: Should Curley, the AD, resign. I think that is an absolute. He failed legally and morally. Should Paterno resign? He has a long and extremely distinguished career coaching young men. It would be a shame to see it all end this way, but the simple fact is that he only met the minimum legal requirement. We have every right to expect more from a person in his position. I think this should be his last season. I will not go into the graphic nature of what I think should happen to Sandusky if he is found guilty, but suffice it to say that a lot of parents would agree with me.
Why didn't the observer step in to stop the act in progress--which has been reported as rape--I have to ask. This is one ugly story.
And even though various people told the "higher-ups", wouldn't they have a moral obligation to be sure something was carried through?
It sounds like a lot of adults dropped the ball as far as what decent folks would expect them to do. So very sad. BTW...Paterno just announced his resignation a little bit ago.
And even though various people told the "higher-ups", wouldn't they have a moral obligation to be sure something was carried through?
I had to attend the mandatory-reporter class recently in my State, and "reporting to higher ups" doesn't absolve you of your legal responsibility here to make sure the incident is properly reported to the Children's Adminsitration/CPS offices.
loosechickens
11-9-11, 3:19pm
Just a terrible situation all around.......My sweetie worked for Penn State for some years, we have one kid who graduated from Penn State, my MIL's nursing home room is literally awash with Penn State stuff, as she is a Penn State graduate and big football fan.........
So, of course, this has been a subject of huge discussion in our family. And the consensus is that Sandusky committed criminal acts, Curley, whose baliwick it was to do something, certainly is guilty of a major offense, and Joe Paterno should have done WAY more than just "report it", and then ignore it and allow it to be swept under the rug.
The most sympathetic thoughts that any of the family can come up with on Paterno is that he is 84 years old, and from the age when such things were most always "swept under the rug". He may well have been guilty of the same paralysis that governed the behavior of some in the Catholic church in authority, about the priest molestations.....i.e., thinking more of "institutional loyalty", and the damage that such a thing coming out would do to Penn State, something I'm sure he regrets at this point.
As my son said in an email today, it's also possible that Paterno confronted his friend of many decades, Sandusky, personally, and got a heartfelt promise to never do such a thing again. He had a terrible conflict of interest, given the length and depth of their friendship, and the fact that at one time he considered Sandusky to be his successor, and his loyalty to the school. That doesn't excuse his behavior, but it does give some context for why he would have chosen such a path.
Very sad that an illustrious career should end on such a note, but I don't think anything but his resignation would have been appropriate. the fact that the trustees are allowing him to retire at the end of the season as opposed to ending his career today, this minute, is about as much as he could expect to get in leniency.
Because, like with the Catholic church and other child molestation scandals, the bottom line is that numbers of young children were harmed. And these people stood by and allowed it to happen, didn't see that it was stopped and the perpetrator brought to justice. I feel badly for Joe Paterno, and family members who know him are devastated by this, but all understand that he had to go. JMHO
fidgiegirl
11-9-11, 4:36pm
I had to attend the mandatory-reporter class recently in my State, and "reporting to higher ups" doesn't absolve you of your legal responsibility here to make sure the incident is properly reported to the Children's Adminsitration/CPS offices.
Yep.
I absolutely think it's right for Paterno to retire, and not just at the end of the season. There are things about this situation that absolutely point to a coverup which is just inexcusable to me.
To me a glaring example of this is the fact that Jerry Sandusky retired in 1999, soon after the first incidence of him being seen sexually assaulting a child in the showers at Penn State. It was reported to police, and then turned over to campus police, where the investigation went away. He was only 55, and much younger than Paterno. At the time he claimed that he was retiring because he had learned that he wouldn't succeed Paterno as head coach. I read an editorial this week by someone that was at Sandusky's retirement dinner. At the time he thought it odd that the usually eloquent Paterno only gave a one minute speech at that dinner, for someone he had worked with for 32 years. I believe he knew then and that Sandusky didn't retire by choice. But he said nothing when the university gave Sandusky an office and full access to the campus facilities. If he or anyone else would have tried to remove him from campus, people would have started asking why.
And then you get to 2002 when a second incident is witnessed. That second incident wouldn't have happen on campus if someone had stopped Sandusky from bringing kids there after 1998. It wasn't until then that he was banned from bringing kids on campus. And even after that he continued to run football camps on Penn State campuses until 2010 while the very people that banned him from having kids on campus looked the other way. And the other damning thing is that the graduate assistant coach got a full time position in the football program at Penn State even though accounts from former team members indicate he wasn't a great player and others were far more qualified for the job.
The only motivation for any of this that I can see is that they all wanted to avoid exactly what we've seen happening now. It was far more important to preserve the Penn State football legacy and money that comes with it than it was to find justice for those abused kids and put Sandusky where he belongs which is prison. Nothing else explains why so many adults that witnessed, reported, or heard about what Jerry Sandusky was doing did nothing but quietly kill the investigations into those reports. And what really ticks me off is that of all people Graham Spanier, the president, knew more than anyone what the horrific affect abuse has on kids. He started his carreer as a Marriage and Family psychologist. How could he just check his experience and common decency at the door to preserve his career? How could any of them have done that?
Yes Paterno should resign - now. Last night my dw and I were watching TV and I can't remember what we were watching, but there was a boy on the show that they mentioned was 10 years old. So young, so innocent and the thought of Jerry Sandusky raping a similar young boy in the Penn State locker room literally makes me sick to my stomach.
There is an entire chain of command that needs to take some responsibility for this crime. I don't care how many games this guy has won -- he had a moral obligation to report this to the police if the University did not.
I believe they were more interested in Penn State's Football legacy and $$ then the boys Jerry Sandusky was preying on.
I don't understand how any of them could live with themselves for so long.
flowerseverywhere
11-9-11, 10:22pm
Absolutely. Anyone who had any idea that there was possible abuse and did not protect the victims should resign. If they fail to do that they should be put on administrative leave, or leave without pay or something while an investigation is done.
The past is the past and nothing can change it. Whether you are a priest, Uncle, teacher or have made a ton of money and fame for a University those who are sex offenders or those who turn their head when they know abuse is going on need to take their medicine. I would hope we learned something from the despicable Catholic church scandal.
loosechickens
11-9-11, 11:00pm
Well, it's a moot point now. Paterno has been fired effective immediately, and the President of Penn State has been dumped as well. Breaking news on CNN just a bit ago.....
"(CNN) -- Head football coach Joe Paterno and the university president have lost their jobs, effective immediately, over a child sex abuse scandal at Penn State, university trustees announced Wednesday night.
John P. Surma, vice chairman of trustees, said that President Graham Spanier was being replaced and Paterno, the longtime head football coach, would not finish the remainder of the season.
Tom Bradley will be Penn State head coach in Joe Paterno's absence. Rod Erickson, executive vice president and provost of the school, will be interim president, school officials said."
"(CNN) -- Head football coach Joe Paterno and the university president have lost their jobs, effective immediately, over a child sex abuse scandal at Penn State, university trustees announced Wednesday night.
And then you have to ask....how many trustees also knew about the situation?
loosechickens
11-9-11, 11:41pm
absolutely.........apparently there were quite a FEW people who knew about Sandusky, yet there he was, as recently at 2010, bringing kids onto the Penn State campus and into the locker room......just sickening. Yeah, how many of those trustees knew there was stuff going on, but for the sake of those football millions, and to protect the institution, just looked away?
I just spent a few hours researching this on the Internet; as a former social worker, I often wonder how people end up committing such heinous crimes. My wanderings led me into the world of so-called boylovers and girllovers. OMG. Online pedophile sites, the non-pornographic ones. Chat rooms and peer support for MAP's: Minor Attracted Persons. It was quite a trip.
Then I found the academic research sites. There are a very few researchers who are looking at the underlying causes of attraction to children, and they get scant funding and are often vilified. Their research is looking at brain and hormonal differences of pedophiles, especially those who have spent a lifetime controlling themselves so as to not offend. I thought I knew a lot about this world... it has been a very illuminating evening. I do wonder how we as a society treat pedophiles and how we can be humane AND keep VERY CLEAR boundaries. The research is suggesting that pedophilia may be hardwired in some individuals. What to do with that possibility?
Anyway, it is now time to go to sleep...
I do wonder how we as a society treat pedophiles and how we can be humane AND keep VERY CLEAR boundaries. The research is suggesting that pedophilia may be hardwired in some individuals. What to do with that possibility?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Canadian_Arctic_Archipelago.svg/706px-Canadian_Arctic_Archipelago.svg.png
flowerseverywhere
11-10-11, 7:04am
. I do wonder how we as a society treat pedophiles and how we can be humane AND keep VERY CLEAR boundaries. The research is suggesting that pedophilia may be hardwired in some individuals. What to do with that possibility?
Zero tolerance. If abuse is suspected or known you remove that person from contact with minors while it is investigated. You inform people of the convicted sex abusers in neighborhoods and don't allow them to live close to schools or places where children congregate or to work with children. Perhaps having halfway type houses where supervision can continue. You educate children that they have the right to not be touched and open communication should be encouraged. Mandated reporting is just that. If you report to your boss and they do nothing and let it continue you go over their head. And you help the victims so they can move forward with their lives. I am not sure what funding has to do with it unless it would lead to way to prevent this from ever happening. Wrong is wrong. It doesn't seem like it was one incident from what I can figure out but a series of incidents.
What frightens me is watching hundreds of students protesting the firing of these people. Wow. Shouldn't they be outside Sandusky's house protesting him. Instead they're outraged that the guy who helped cover up crimes got fired? It makes me wonder what our universities are really teaching. I think instilling school spirit to ensure future donors has gotten way out of hand.
Zero tolerance. If abuse is suspected or known you remove that person from contact with minors while it is investigated. You inform people of the convicted sex abusers in neighborhoods and don't allow them to live close to schools or places where children congregate or to work with children. Perhaps having halfway type houses where supervision can continue. You educate children that they have the right to not be touched and open communication should be encouraged. Mandated reporting is just that. If you report to your boss and they do nothing and let it continue you go over their head. And you help the victims so they can move forward with their lives. I am not sure what funding has to do with it unless it would lead to way to prevent this from ever happening. Wrong is wrong. It doesn't seem like it was one incident from what I can figure out but a series of incidents.
Yea, this......or bae's implied suggestion! ( <-- voting);)
pinkytoe
11-10-11, 10:22am
The research is suggesting that pedophilia may be hardwired in some individuals.
Not that it is acceptable but haven't certain cultures been keeping little boys for eons - the Romans, etc? I wonder if it was openly accepted in that culture?
It's all too weird to me how the news often seems to be about men and their sexual indiscretions.
What frightens me is watching hundreds of students protesting the firing of these people. Wow. Shouldn't they be outside Sandusky's house protesting him. Instead they're outraged that the guy who helped cover up crimes got fired? It makes me wonder what our universities are really teaching. I think instilling school spirit to ensure future donors has gotten way out of hand.
Most of the kids protesting are just that....kids. While I certainly never accepted crimes against children I know my own feelings on the subject didn't fully develop until I became a parent. It's simply not a subject I spent much time thinking about when I was in my late teens/early twenties. College is supposed to be one of the most exciting times in your life. At Penn State the football program is the source of much pride and excitement and a great deal of fun in student lives revolves around that. Joe Paterno was the leader of that program which makes him kind of a de facto hero for the students. I think it is more a case of the students knowing that times are changing and being disappointed that the good times might be coming to an end than it is them truly grasping what happened. Let's keep working to educate them and try to instill ethics at all levels, but let's not judge them too harshly for being young.
When you have a position of influence and power, you have extra responsibility. This is Leadership 101. Kicking something upstairs is what a lowly grad student who is reporting a powerful member of the establishment does.
Even privileges you've earned still carry a responsibility. I don't think that is something that most people believe anymore.
I appreciate bae's sentiment, but I wouldn't want to inflict people like this on the lovely inhabitants of the arctic north -- though perhaps getting snuggly with a polar bear would bring things to a quick resolution.
I read the grand jury testimony last night. Really alarming. So far there are 8 victims identified. I assume there will be many, many more. One of the most disturbing things is how many of those victims were referred to Sandusky's organization by SCHOOL COUNSELORS! I understand that they must have done so with no awareness that this kind of thing was going on, but come on -- after they referred the kids, if even ONE of them had asked them later on how things were going the kids would have had a chance to reveal what he was doing. There were several instances where other school officials witnessed questionable behavior on school grounds, yet they continued to allow Sandusky to pull kids OUT OF CLASS to meet with him, apparently any time he wanted to. Often those meetings included obviously emotionally abusive behavior by Sandusky -- yelling and screaming at the kids -- which no one seems to question. He's a "coach", right? Coaches yell. They spend large amounts of time with boys unattended. But geez -- inviting kids to their house to spend the night with no one else around? Taking them on trips and staying in hotels with them without other adults present? How the hell did his WIFE not suspect that something wierd was going on?
Sickening....
lhamo
Didn't anyone ever talk to their parents???????????
His wife may very well have suspected something... I suspect she was controlled like everyone else.
In a side story, our Nebraska Cornhuskers are heading to State College, PA to play football against Penn State tomorrow. Its a big game (more so for us, we need to win) in the Big 10 Conference. A lot of people, including me, have been looking forward to it. This morning's news has brought a wide range of stories telling Husker fans attending the game to "be careful" or "be vigilant" and other stories relating how Penn State is going to beef up the security around the game. This is a college football game and the warnings sound like State Department Travel Advisories to the Middle East! Just another sad ripple on the pond. I hope nothing happens that would make this situation even more tragic.
HappyHiker
11-11-11, 10:05am
Some very bad decisions were made by some very important people in positions of power who should have known better. My heart goes out to the young victims of these vile acts and terrible decisions. And yes, heads should roll. These VIP's have ruined lives, no doubt.
Gregg.....what are they worried about? riots?
Gregg.....what are they worried about? riots?
I believe there are death threats against the coaching staff, or at least against Mike McQueary.
Gregg.....what are they worried about? riots?
I know a lot of people going to the game (I'm not) and the fans, as a rule, aren't exactly worried. That said, the mob mentality is always a worry during an emotional time like this. Some people in State College, I believe mostly students, have already smashed a few cars and store windows during "protests" so vigilance is probably called for because its hard to predict when/if a mob will get out of hand.
Thanks Alan and Gregg......I guess violence from both sides is a possibility.
Anne Lee
11-11-11, 10:12pm
I listened to the NPR story tonight. It would not surprise me if the cover up went further than the athletic department and that alumni/donors exerted pressure to keep things quiet.
The more I hear, the more I am convinced firing Paterno was the right thing to do.
I'm not excited about the game on Saturday as I know it will be all about the Scandal. Urg.
flowerseverywhere
11-11-11, 11:31pm
read the grand jury report
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf
what I wonder is why so many adults were aware of what was going on and no-one stepped up to the plate to stop him
I really hope this tragic, horrifying implosion at PSU blows the lid off the silence that remains & surrounds boys who are victimized, and that the homophobic members of our communities DO NOT equate this form of abuse with homosexuality. Someone very dear to me was sexually molested as a boy, by several friends of his older brother, and it still haunts him. Even in this anonymous forum, I don't feel ok disclosing my relationship to him, as it is such a big secret of his, and I have only heard a very little bit of it. In fact, I have several family members by both blood & marriage who suffered sexual abuse as children. One girl was assaulted at the age of 6, and in turn began to be inappropriate in her daycare with other kids her age, which is how her abuse by an adult was uncovered.
When I was a social worker and was assisting a woman in our rural community who was being battered by her husband, one of their young daughters disclosed that her father was sexually abusing her - except it was in 5 year old words.... I was extremely glad I had had training in how to recognize & respond to this disclosure. The Mom was from a fundamentalist church, and I sat with her while she waited for her church elders to give her permission to leave her husband... after he had hit her in the face with a piece of firewood, and after the EMT's treated her. It was the next day, at the shelter, that I had to tell her what her daughter had said to me... That was a difficult conversation, but she got free from him, and left the community.
The abuse of children is rampant, and sexual abuse is intensely harmful. I really really hope some changes happen as a result of this insanity in PA.
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