View Full Version : Your opinion, please. Annual fee for Simple Living Forum use?
This one ought to stir it up a little and draw out a few recluses from their dark nooks and crannies.
The lights and heat (related to this forum) are kept on by members donations, that's a fact, so what is your opinion on making this a fee-operated forum site?
Oh Mrs-M, you're going to end up on the naughty list if you stir the pot like that!
On the real world side our hosts, The New Road Map Foundation, wish to keep this operational strictly on a donation basis. I think that is the best way to go overall with the sincere hope that anyone who feels they have received value from these boards will be willing to return the favor. It just feels a little more autonomous (IMO) if all support is voluntary.
treehugger
12-14-11, 11:19am
If you genuinely want to encourage lurkers to post and infrequent posters to participate more and new people to drop in and decide to stay, mandatory fees are not the way.
Kara
catherine
12-14-11, 11:45am
Well, Rozie cited in her SLN stats that there are around 200 active posters, and only about 30 have contributed voluntarily. I don't think we're being cheap, I think we may need a simple reminder, like Dave used to have at the end of the year. Not to put more on the administrators, but I'm pretty responsive to annual pledge drives and things like that...
Consider me reminded to make a contribution.
I would rather try a gentle soft-sell before a mandatory membership fee.
I think it would turn SL into even more of a ghost town.
leslieann
12-14-11, 12:36pm
Nope, no fee. But encouragement to donate is okay. I don't love the pledge drive by my public radio station but it does motivate me (did...when I lived in the US).
So go ahead and donate! Keep the lights on and the servers humming (or whatever they do....). I for one would miss this place.
Come on people I am one of only 30 people to contribute. At least I am in the 1% in something.
My opinion is no fees but more reminders of the donation end of things would be o.k. People do forget about donating or are maybe not aware.
I would go away if a fee was mandatory, even though I just donated towards 2012.
shadowmoss
12-14-11, 4:03pm
I would not come here again. I might donate if it is optional. I probably should donate, and have no real excuse. But DEMAND it? I'm outta here at that point.
I used to hang out at the Motley Fool a lot, daily for long periods and followed a lot of the threads. They made a BIG DEAL out of making the place fee-based. Never been back. They offered a lot of folks a free first year. That made me feel not wanted since I wasn't one they offered the free deal to. That kind of backfired for them, I think.
loosechickens
12-14-11, 4:27pm
I much prefer donations to a paid site. Just as in most human endeavors, 80% of the accomplishment is achieved by 20% of the people, and on sites like this, 20% of us probably carry 80% of the monetary load. That's just human nature.
Some people don't contribute because they are unable to, have lost jobs, have way too tight a budget to feel they could spend money for an online forum. Others may not contribute because they think "it SHOULD be free", while ignoring the very real costs of hosting a website. Other may just be of the "hey, let George do it", because they are selfish and feel no sense of community and as long as they can access the information free, they consider no one other than themselves. And some will donate because it feels like the right thing to do, because they have a community feeling about the site and want to contribute with their monetary contribution. Some will donate because they think they should and would feel guilty if they didn't.....and on and on and on.
Suffice it to say that online forums, like life in general, are not fair, some people will look to get a "free ride" on others' contributions, some will be unable due to lack of resources to do their share, and others will shoulder more than their fair share for altruistic reasons, or because they know that there are some members who would like to contribute but cannot, so they kick in some extra to cover them. We contribute every year, and because we are financially comfortable, set aside a certain portion of our income for such things and can afford it, I try to send along enough for us and some extra people who may not be able to contribute.
Does it bother me that there are those who are able to contribute monetarily but will not? Of course. But there are lots of selfish people in the world and if we allow our own actions to be affected by theirs, or not wanting to give them "a free ride", who do we hurt? Yep, ourselves and many others who enjoy the website.
I would definitely vote AGAINST making this a paid site, but I do vote FOR asking people who are able financially to do so, to contribute. And for those who are very comfortable financially to kick in extra for some who can't contribute. I look at it as I look at NPR. We belong to four NPR stations right now, as we tend to send in memberships for any in areas of the country where we spend certain amounts of time. I hate the pledge drives, but I respond by sending in my membership money, and because NPR is important to me, and since I know only a small percentage of people pay all the freight, I send along extra.........
I think making this website a pay site would be a huge mistake, and I don't think we are in any danger of having that happen. I know it's tempting, especially for those folks who get upset when everyone doesn't do their "fair share", to want to go to such a system, but to me, better to just recognize that things are NEVER fair, and just move along with your lives, do right where you can and let karma take care of the rest. JMHO
ApatheticNoMore
12-14-11, 4:28pm
Are there many discussion forums on the internet there are fee only? If so they are so rare I've never heard of them (not that I go out of my way to seek them). I guess in theory I could see that for highly technical information (but in reality it is mostly free). Maybe the closest is newssites that charge for use, academic and scientific publications, Lexis Nexis type stuff? I don't know.
How much does it cost to run this site, btw?
Gardenarian
12-14-11, 4:41pm
Thank you Mrs M! You just encouraged me to voluntarily make a donation.
loosechickens
12-14-11, 4:44pm
I don't have time to find it for you, bae, but this year the NRMF posted here on the forums what all the costs were, and I'm sure if you look around a bit, you'll be able to find it. NRM wanted everything to be transparent, so all the information is available, for sure. It's not all that expensive, but if only 30 people are donating, we probably WILL have some problems, so hopefully, these threads that will help people be reminded of the necessity to keep the bills paid will do the job, and more will be moved to contribute.
Folks.....look for that orange DONATE button, it's on just about every page, and the process is painless and takes only a few minutes. If right this minute doesn't seem like a good time, when will it be better? ;-)
I just donated. I didn't know you could donate until I read this thread. I guess I just look at the titles on threads and never looked at anything else. I'm probably not alone. A gentle reminder now and then in every forum would probably help alot. I loved Freein05's comment about being in the 1% of something. After my donation today I'm probably in the only 1% I'll ever be in too.
... after the New Year will be a while lot better ...
Another site I discuss on did that and lost nearly half of the active posters. They've been comping me for years, or I wouldn't participate.
How much does it cost to run this site, btw?
I couldn't immediately find rozie's financial post (that LC referenced). It was put up quite a while ago. I did send rozie a message asking her to send a link to the info so we could re-post it and will do that as soon as I hear back. I think the NRMF annual meeting is later this week. The most up to date numbers should be available after following that meeting.
How much does it cost to run this site, btw?
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?3014-Financial-Report-for-first-3-quarters-of-SLF&p=47359#post47359
It would appear that the cost is quite low, somewhere below $400 per year, although donations seem to be paying someone for administration & maintenance. I'm not sure how you can estimate that based upon the information provided.
Not sure where the fee-based idea is coming from or going to...
But, IMHO, as soon as a website determines a fee schedule, it also agrees to provide certain services. Then you have to establish a list of services and then a request and then multiple requests for more or different services and complaints about services just like any other business.
No interest at all in going that route and, yes, I am another one of the 1% who did donate as Free05 mentioned.
BTW, Rozie was quick to respond to my email when I forgot to note that my donation was towards the SLF.
I will try to remember to make a donation and personally don't mind pay a little for the forum use, but I think a manditory fee is pretty much a death sentence for the forums. There are enough free forums around on the web, that I think a prospective new member would be not see any value in paying a fee.
If money is an issue for the forums to continue I think there are better ways. One might be to have tranparency to the annual forum costs and a tally of donations year to date, possibly like the old thermometer type charts. Or fund raisers on the furm every several months that would highlight the costs and need for donations. I don't know if there would be any desire or interest for a business sponsor or sponsors that would be allowed a small advertisement, or if the site traffic would be enough to attract something like that.
I actually think as big an issue is how to encourage new members. I read under business highlights the report on record registrations, but I only see a few new names as active posters. I enjoy the forums as they are, but it seems like the discussions are less lively than I recall from days of yore. I don't know how the membership numbers compare.
Water&Air
12-15-11, 10:13am
I am not a big fan of fee based services, yet I have to say if the 200 who regularly posted donated $10-$15 a year (if you could afford it), then that should cover the cost and assist with any upgrades that would need to take place. For some, that is grocery money, but for others its a lunch out ..... its a very personnel decision. As others have stated, maybe a campaigne of some sort a couple of times of year to "remind" folks that this site does not run on air, would be the order of the day. Reassess next year .... just made my donation ..thank you Mrs. M. for the reminder.
This site keeps me on track, and connects with like minded souls. I am more of a lurker, but I would hate to see anything stop or slow down this wonderful site. As others have stated, it is really difficult to find like minded folks in the "real world", so the support is needed and much appreciated.
Mandatory fees are the quickest way to kill off a forum that I have ever seen. I have lost many favorites to that as people just go elsewhere.
At least I am in the 1% in something.
:laff:
To everyone, thank you for the replies.
ljevtich
12-17-11, 12:18am
Just one more, I too think if it was fee based I would be gone. :(
I like forums, and have gotten used to the ads within forums, which is where most make their money, from people clicking on the ads. I do it myself as well - have ads on my website, and when people click on them, I get a residual income. Pennies, but they do add up. I know there was talk of having or not having ads, but if it means the death of these forums, I would suggest the ads.
Here's a story:
I found this forum a several years & a few layoffs ago. I was panicked, and the folks here helped me get some of my sanity back while I sorted out what was next.
I've come back since then because I love the range of views as well as the fabulous hot hints for everything from household stuff to movies to parenting tips. I even enjoy the political heat that gets generated!
What's your story? How did you originally connect, and why do you keep coming back?
Ljevtich. It's funny, the differing sentiment we all share in respect to donations and fee-based sign-ups. Re: ads, that would be a killer for me.
Redfox. What a pleasant story. I connected accidentally, by happening upon the site through chance, but my love quickly grew for this forum as a result of feeling a connection to others who lived or were living the same (doing the same things as me). There's a warmth I get from that, knowing I'm not alone in my ventures and interests. It's hard to find that sort of thing IRL, never mind finding it in the form of a virtual community, so I knew early on that this place was worth it's weight in gold and well worth hanging onto and preserving.
Lively discussion, great way to explore the question.
One way to help publicize the forums would be to "like" our facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Financial-IntegrityNew-Road-Map-Foundation/197551060291937) and maybe post links on our wall to discussions you find particularly helpful/interesting. For now, to keep admin costs low, we have only a combined FB page, but if we got enough participation, NRM would happily look at a separate page for SLF. Also, if you comment on other blogs or forums, don't forget to add a link to SLF forums of the NRM fb page as well if you can. Any other ideas on promoting the community would be most welcome, and anyone who can donate time but not money (or even both!) but isn't up for moderating a forum, could be helpful in finding and approaching sites that might be willing to include a link to us here.
My crystal ball doesn't predict either ads or mandatory fees in the foreseeable future, btw, but it's always good to explore options so we know what the community wants. Thanks for stirring the pot a bit on this, Mrs-M!
How much does it cost to run this site, btw?
Here's the latest info on this:
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?3525-2011-Expenses-Implications-for-2012
I have to say that this forum has been a good cure against Facebook, I wouldn't mind an annual fee if it's less than $100/year. On the other hand, I'm a professional grant writer and feel that there is a lot of money out there to apply for. And I also think that if you openly correspond about what the charges are the awareness rises and people would donate more, it's like telling families they can buy a donkey for poor Aisia in [name country] so they know what their money goes to. Works like a charm. As I'm writing this a lot of idea's pop up (and that's a bit of my problem, I have too many idea's and get medelling).
Originally posted by Harmony.
I wouldn't pay. I don't think I either contribute enough or get enough out of it to pay a fee to use it.Here's how I look at supporting this forum. It's like the consumer who signs-up for a credit card that carries an annual-fee. Regardless of whether or not the card-holder actually uses the card or not (or how little or how much the user puts his or her card to use), the annual card-holder fee still applies.
If there's one thing I've learned over the course of my lifetime, "it's the positive that I feed off of, not the negative"... Same holds true for this community. (It's the positive that keeps it going, not the negative).
No to fee to use site.
Yes to Guilt Induced Voluntary Donations similar to public radio.
Banner Ads during designated giving time do not appear on those usernames that have donated.
And designated donation time is made shorter once said financial goal is met for the 2 time a year or quarterly donor drive.
Here's how I look at supporting this forum. It's like the consumer who signs-up for a credit card that carries an annual-fee. Regardless of whether or not the card-holder actually uses the card or not (or how little or how much the user puts his or her card to use), the annual card-holder fee still applies.
I see what you're saying Mrs. M, but a lot of people like me, and probably many simple livers, won't sign up for credit cards that have annual fees (we are know as "deadbeats" by the credit card agencies :-)!). None of my 5 CC's have annual fees and I would dump them if they charged me one. So I wouldn't pay a fee for any forum. I would however donate, and I did, to this site on a voluntary basis the same way I voluntarily use my CCs when I travel (always paying them in full each month to maintain my deadbeat status!). It seems that most here feel this way too and I think charging a fee would actually be detrimental to adding more members to the site. If I went online to this site for the first time and it charged a fee to use, I wouldn't even check it out so would never have joined this wonderful community - and never have donated voluntarily. The more people you can convince to check out the SLF's, the more will join, and the more in donations they will get. Voluntary donations might actually top involuntary annual fees if we had enough members to donate a bit each year.
I think it's a bad idea to implement a fee for usage as it would probably keep new people from signing up.
That said, I am a member of another forum which charges an annual fee for those members who want to take advantage of specific forum features. It's a motorcycle enthusiast forum and my $12 annual fee gives me the ability to view member submitted photos, review and download technical manuals, etc. Non paying members can still take part in the discussions but are unable to enjoy those additional benefits.
That site is also run on a vBulletin platform. Anyone interested in seeing it can find it at www.venturerider.org (http://www.venturerider.org)
I'm not sure how that would work on a forum such as this, although the forum software is certainly capable of accomplishing the task if necessary.
This has been an interesting thread, lots of great input/suggestions.
Mtnlaurel. Neat-o idea Re: the banner ads.
Spartana. We're deadbeats, too!
Alan, your idea is fantabulous! I like!!!
Originally posted by Harmony.
Mrs. M~ It's so not about negative vs. positive. It's simply, as the adage goes, am I getting a good value for my dollar. For *me personally* I could simply do not participate enough to justify a cost . Easy peasy. Nothing to do with being pos or neg.Credit cards and the annual fees associated with such credit cards, really, had little to do with the direction of my last entry. The point I was making, was to relay a subtle point (message) by outlining the relationship between signing up for an annual-fee credit card (one knows they will be charged for), and signing up as a member of this forum (one knows is kept alive through the financial support of members).
It doesn't seem a good analogy really. In one case, it's a credit card company charging you a fee so you can use their card and let them charge merchants money off the top, and you interest and fees.
In the other case....
Its all academic since (at least as of now) NRM has no plan to implement a usage fee for the forums. I hope enough members feel strongly enough about the value derived from this community to render either a fee based system or paid advertising unnecessary going forward.
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