View Full Version : conspiracy theories...again
pinkytoe
12-16-11, 11:29am
I am watching my 37 yr union with dh unravel as he delves further and further into conspiracy theories. He spends vast amounts of time driving for his job and apparently Alex Jones and all the other radio shows he listens to are making an even stronger impression as time goes by. I have no doubt there are evil things going on in the world as there have always been, but I don't want to live my life thinking about them all the time. All of our conversations eventually end up talkiing about the evil "they" out there. I used to defend my position on all this but now I just stay silent. I may be living a lot simpler life here soon on my own since I don't know what to do about this situation. Also frustrating because it is not something I can really discuss with friends or family:(
iris lily
12-16-11, 11:58am
I am watching my 37 yr union with dh unravel as he delves further and further into conspiracy theories. He spends vast amounts of time driving for his job and apparently Alex Jones and all the other radio shows he listens to are making an even stronger impression as time goes by. I have no doubt there are evil things going on in the world as there have always been, but I don't want to live my life thinking about them all the time. All of our conversations eventually end up talkiing about the evil "they" out there. I used to defend my position on all this but now I just stay silent. I may be living a lot simpler life here soon on my own since I don't know what to do about this situation. Also frustrating because it is not something I can really discuss with friends or family:(
This is sad, I'm sorry to hear it and have no words of wisdom for you.
My thougths are with you.
I'm sorry you're going through this Pinky Toe. It may not be hopeless. I had a friend years ago that got into that stuff. She spent all her free time looking for a demon under every rock and trying to convince the rest of us that nothing was as it seems. She was so into it that at one point she was "interviewed" by the Secret Service.
She eventually gave it up. What did it was the threat of losing her job as a legal secretary for a firm she'd worked at for over 20 years. Apparently her boss got ahold of a newsletter from one of these groups that was faxed to her at the office. I don't know what was in it but he told her that it's very presence in their office could jeapordize their firm and if he ever heard so much as a word about these theories from her she'd be gone immediately. Within a few months she realized how ridiculous most of what these people were saying was. Maybe the thought of losing you and your family will wake him up.
Some of these theories are pretty seductive, but as some wise observer pointed out, does anyone really believe so many conspiracies could be carried out so flawlessly and seamlessly that they wouldn't come unraveled at some point? People are just too fallible.
Aqua Blue
12-16-11, 1:30pm
I can symathize. I have a brother that every conversations leads to conspiracies and everyone out to get him/us. I find myself limiting my time with him, which is kinda sad because I moved in part to be closer to family.
My thoughts are with you pinkytoe. We've had to distance ourselves from a good friend who is doing the same thing. Every single conversation turns that direction and it is too much negativity for me to handle.
I remain hopeful that this is just a passing interest for dh. He tends to get really passionate about a subject and then move on...but this one is more than a little scary as it alienates him from others.
These are fearful times and middle aged/older men seem to be particularly susceptible. I wouldn't stay silent anymore. I would let him know in no uncertain terms that you have NO interest in discussing these topics anymore and if he can't stop then he has a choice, get help or get a new place to live.
Don't be kind to fear though be gentle with the fearful.
ApatheticNoMore
12-16-11, 3:05pm
Well what does he propose to do with the theories? I mean even something extreme like moving to another country or a survivalist bunker, keeping 5 years of canned goods, or protesting in the streets is doing something (though if the ideas are completely nuts good luck with that protest). And you may not want to join him in this of course. And some of the theories I think it would be like: well ok so how does this even affect your life? So the murder of Kennedy was an inside job, ok that's a darn shame, how does that affect you?
Can you tell us which "theories" he is referring to?
I would also suggest a medical check-up for sure.
If he is traveling alone for long periods, maybe you could compile some podcasts of a different nature and give that to him to listen to instead? Or music or audio-books?
I have lots of sites that you could go to for dispelling the myths but then again, I do not think that you should feed into his delusions.
These are fearful times and middle aged/older men seem to be particularly susceptible.
I'm really curious as to "why" this is the case. I have noticed that more and more upper-middle aged (55 +) and older gents are really into this stuff, and I truly do not get it. my dad is into it via fox news, which is tame comparatively.
i did suggest audio books for my parents -- since they spent a lot of time listening to angry-rant "news" in the am drive (about 1.5 hrs) and would insist that these were "based in fact" when, in fact, rush limbaugh is usually just based in a quote taken out of context.
they started out with a few audio books, and now are kind of hooked on them, and they seem to have calmed down quite a lot.
I love examining conspiracy theories, and the people who believe in them.
Those prone to such theories, in my experience:
- aren't amenable to reason or logic in examining the proposed conspiracy
- have trouble with their critical thinking skills
- have some personal sense of powerlessness or defeat that pushes them to blame "the other" for their problems
- often have some sort of medical/psychological issues
- become increasingly extremist in their views over time
If my spouse were getting into conspiracy stuff all of a sudden, I'd look for a medical cause first.
idk, bae.
my father is a scientist. he's pretty good on the logic/reason and critical thinking side of things. while he has medical issues, i dont' think these -- in particular -- would affect his reasoning/critical thinking skills.
that being said, he isn't often willing to think critically about the given information (he just starts yelling it at you), and i don't know what the personal sense of powerflessness or defeat/blame stuff would come from, but I can't say that it's not there.
i just don't know why my parents are so afraid. they are so much more afraid of everyone out there. they mostly watch fox news and related commentary "news" programs, and just become more and more us/them about it all. "The liberals X!" and "the gays Y!" and so on. I'm always asking WHOM do you mean, exactly? But then they just start yelling at me, so I give up.
loosechickens
12-16-11, 5:17pm
There does seem to be some extra attraction to these things among middle-aged and older men, and I find myself wondering sometimes if the susceptibility to these fearful and often angry conspiracy theories doesn't have something to do with feeling less powerful in their own lives, possibily diminished in their own abilities, etc.
Because we have more than several acquaintances and one good friend who have gotten caught up in these things, everything from the Bilderberg Group to chem trails, and every other danger (usually somehow orchestrated flawlessly from the Government, although the same people scoff at and deride "the Government" for being useless, inefficient, wasting of money, and sometimes not even made up of Americans, hahahaha). How they think that hundreds or thousands of people could be trusted to keep their mouths shut, actually achieve some of these things, I don't know.
I don't think it really makes sense, except in the context of the fact that many who are broadcasting and disseminating this stuff are making BIG bucks doing so, (and some may, themselves, be true believers), and the ones who are sucked into it, do so because of anxieties, fears and distrust of others that may be present in themselves, so they latch on to the "other" who is to blame for everything.
And, in all honesty, there are some relatively mainstream media sources and people, some quite powerful, who seem to stoke this kind of fear deliberately, for huge profits. Most seem to be on the right (perhaps because of President Obama's election which has awakened some ugly stuff), but not all, certainly, and some are relatively non-political in the sense of "a pox on all their houses", but a lot is deliberately fear driven, inaccurate, yet purports to be trustworthy sources, some to the point where listeners or viewers won't even CONSIDER any information except from those few "trusted" sources, because everything else is just the "lamestream" or "liberal" media and is in the pockets of the "thems" who are perpetrating the atrocities against the "us". It's really sad, and I think, a big source of the terrible polarity and division in our country.
Our one friend is a long distance trucker, and BOY has he gone off the deep end, and another old RVing friend, now living in Yuma AZ sends us stuff that I think comes from places where I'd be quite unsurprised to see Homeland Security showing up at his place....I don't even like to be on his email list. There is some UGLY stuff out there, and fearful and/or anxious people willing to believe almost any of it.
I hope this IS a passing thing with your DH. Maybe you could talk to him about why he is attracted to these ideas, and kind of "talk him down" if possible. I don't expect he'd be willing to get any kind of professional help.
Apathetic No More makes a good point.....a lot depends on what the conspiracies ARE......if it's the garden variety of President Kennedy was killed by the mob, or the government is trying to control us by putting chemicals in the jet trails of airplanes, it's one thing, but if it involves more sinister stuff, I would worry.
On the middle-aged-man issue, be aware that a fair number of men suffer from a rapid dropoff in their testosterone levels as they age, and this has all sorts of unpleasant side effects for them.
DH seems mostly interested in the federal reserve theories not so much the others. Although occasionally he will say something that really sounds like he is paranoid so I am beginning to wonder. I think all of these theories blasting into a person's brain must become like an addiction. The internet and easy availability to others of similar ilk doesn't help. I let him know yesterday that he will need to make a choice soon between all this cr** or our marriage. My personal belief is that yes there is some feeling of powerlessness but among some people, perhaps a feeling of belonging to a private club that knows about all these secrets - it adds a little excitement and validation to an otherwise routine life. No coincidence I'm sure, that he loves science fiction. For now, when he starts in, I just give him "the look" and that stops it.
right, so men are hormonal. now the truth comes out! LOL
right, so men are hormonal. now the truth comes out! LOL
It's a serious medical issue, and causes significant quality of life issues for many men, who have no idea what is causing their issues.
If your male partner is grumpy, depressed, lacks mental focus, is low in energy, aggressive, having mood swings, losing height or muscle mass, accumulating body fat around the waist or breasts, has a low sex drive or performance issues, have him get checked out. It's pretty easy to fix.
bae,
Yes, that's what the joke says.
Men are hormonal. Hormones affect them -- positively and negatively. If you are out of balance, there is a negative effect.
It's true of women also.
The real issue is whether or not it will get treated. my FIL has obvious testosterone issues, and he did get them checked out when we mentioned "did you think it might be your testosterone levels?" and he came in the low-normal range. So his doctor said "normal part of aging, no worries." and FIL did not get treatment.
I made some suggestions for his diet, and he seemed to improve, and next test his levels were up "surprisingly" his doctor said.
It can be easy to fix. IF someone notices it.
And I dare say that most women are entirely poo-pooed in regards to their hormones, and nearly everything that they do is blamed on hormones, which is why I made fun of it.
we are all driven by hormones.
And FWIW, it's worth everyone looking up the connection between CHOLESTEROL and hormones. Higher cholesterol usually means better hormone profiles, which usually means better health. So all these guys on statins and the like might actually be working against themselves, leading to the hormonal imbalance that causes these other problems.
but lets just cover that one up, because no one wants to hear that cholesterol is healthy, that it's a precursor to sex hormones, that an increase in cholesterol in the senior years benefits seniors and their health (sexual or otherwise) when we can make a massive profit on a drug.
And I dare say that most women are entirely poo-pooed in regards to their hormones, and nearly everything that they do is blamed on hormones, which is why I made fun of it.
I see...
I was thinking maybe his feelings are more a manifestation of depression. Do you think this might be it? Depression can take on many forms other than just being sad........like anger.
Paranoia can also be an early sign of some brain problems, like Alzheimer's. Does he have any other signs, like forgetfulness, etc.?
Definitely have him have a medical exam to rule out any other kinds of problems.
Can you talk to him about his negativity? Does he know how much it bothers you?
bae,
yes, i make fun of women (myself included) being hormonal all the time. :) seeing as I'm currently working through a post-lactation hormonal issue, i find making light of it makes it easier to manage emotionally.
it's been 5 months since I was breastfeeding, why is my cycle like this? why do i have signs of too much testosterone?
i figure it's not because i have too much testosterone, but rather because i have too little estrogen or progesterone. I'm keeping close charts, but i've yet to figure out which it is. This is the 5th cycle post weaning. only one has been "normal" by the books (and also normal for me, after so many years of charting -- i've been doing it 8 years less the pregnancy time), which means four times are odd. This one is REALLY odd.
And so, I make light of being hormonal. Because it's been my funky state since the pregnancy. I had a lot of hot flashing during pregnancy. it was really funny to me. My bestie was also going through menopause at the time. We used to hot flash together. It was really very funny.
Sometimes, you really do have to laugh about these things. Or, well, it can really swallow you up.
But, hey, if you want to take everything super-seriously all the time, feel free.
HaHa, we women have been ruled by our hormones all our lives, from first menses, to menopause, and all the other stuff in between (childbirth), it's kind of a given our 'problems' are due to hormones.
Your husbands problems might be hormones, but I think it's more mental. Not illness, but good old fashioned brainwashing. Yep, that's what Fox News and Rush Beck do. They brainwash. People think they would know it if they were being brainwashed, or could spot the technique. But brainwashing, by it's definition, is subliminal and insidious. What is brainwashing but the repeating of the 'information' over and over as fact, with a line up of 'experts' to reaffirm these 'facts'. If you keep hearing the same crap over and over, for hours at a time, you will believe it. And one of the cornerstones of brainwashing is to also tell you, over and over, you can't trust anyone else. That everyone else is in on the conspiracy and only the brain-washers are true and right and are looking out for you. Sound familiar? I do believe that is one of the tag lines of Fox. Brainwashing is very effective, and it can be used on intelligent, well thought of people as well as the gullible. Brainwashing is a very effective tool and used everyday by cults, military organizations, and Rush Beck and Fox.
People who are brainwashed aren't zombies walking around with blank stares on their faces. they are regular people who are so convinced of some 'truth' that no matter what is presented to them, even the cold hard facts, they will only believe the 'message'. It's the "Do you believe me or your lying eyes" crowd. Or in other words, Fox News viewers.
Ask most people where they get their news and info from and most will cite several news sources, print and on-line and TV. Ask a brainwashed person where they get their news and info, and it's only one place, the only place for 'truth'.
I think that it's more likely, peggy.
Once you get sucked in, you get sucked in.
I grant it could be hormones, health issues, mental health issues, beginnings of dementia, or any number of things.
But sometimes it's just a simple fact: exposure and over exposure.
What we read *does* impact us greatly.
DH and I were watching "Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares" yesterday. The UK version is way more chill than the US version. We found ourselves feeling very tense and agitated s we watched the show. The show is set up to show high drama and clashes. The hormonal influx of cortisol (stress) and adrenaline (fight/flight) is palpable when watching certain shows, movies, etc. It's also why movie theaters will have AC on higher in theaters where there are action films -- because our body is responding to what we see/experience, and we tend to have an increase in body temp.
SO, what most people don't realize is that all of the media that we read (including these message boards) *impacts* us mentally an physiologically. We need to pay attention to that, in order to see if something is becoming a pattern.
it's why I also take "media fasts" for several days or weeks on a regular basis (at least once a year). No blogs, newspapers, online news, television news, no radio, no recorded music of any kind, no magazines, no books. No, not even my favorite books in the whole wide world and not even scriptures or any other kind of book.
Just being -- usually out in nature, lots of meditation, and just being. And tell you what, after one of those, you can really see and feel how this stuff DOES affect you.
And you can decide how much exposure you want, when, and how.
Doing so makes a HUGE difference. my parents will be here in NZ for two weeks. No tvs. No radio (our car doesn't have one). No newspapers unless we happen upon one. Just being together with some books and such. We'll go and see The Muppets.
Maybe they'll go home and see those things for what they really are. For me, they are just stress inducers -- trying to incite anger and frustration and fear. It seems obvious to me.
But, who knows?
No one has mentioned diet as potentially aggravating other issues. If we eat the commerically processed, high fat and high sugar diet even for a day, it depresses both DH and myself. If we avoid eating out most of the time (meaning over 98% of the time ), stick to a very simple diet of fruit, plain starches like homemade bread, potatoes, rice, lots of veggies and simple unprocessed protein sources, all in moderation, we feel so much more optimistic about things. At my last medical checkup, I was told that I was the 'poster child' for healthy readings on all the blood tests.
Someone who is on the road a lot will be eating the take out cr*p often because it is cheap, quick and easy but certainly not healthy.
I'm really curious as to "why" this is the case. I have noticed that more and more upper-middle aged (55 +) and older gents are really into this stuff, and I truly do not get it. my dad is into it via fox news, which is tame comparatively.
Personally I think it has a lot to do with midlife crisis, meaning of life, spirituality, is this all there is to life, trying to find something in life bigger than life kind of stuff. I'd expect many people who get into conspiracy stuff feel their life is somehow empty and not meaningful.
It doesn't mean all sorts of stuff doesn't go on. But conspiracy is another level. Everyone is out Christmas shopping, and there is a monumental push every year to get everyone to go Christmas shopping, but I don't think there's a handful of people out there covertly making it happen :-)
puglogic
12-20-11, 12:34pm
Where bad diet, overexposure to negative media (and face it, most of it is negative in some way), and swaying hormones intersect, there be dragons.
I am a walking science experiment for this. My normal life is the control: Good food, not a ton of salt, fat, sugar, alcohol, or caffeine (just a bit). I avoid the media - for so many reasons. I exercise and get lots of light to stay chemically balanced. I'm a calm, happy, positive, energetic person.
In the periods when I'm ingesting a lot of sodium (eating out), or fat/sugar/alcohol ("holidays"), when I'm watching reality TV mindlessly, when I'm not getting my body moving and keeping company with positive people, I wake up in the middle of the night convinced that the entire world is crashing down, undermined by evildoers, going to hell without the benefit of a handbasket.
Unless his lifelong aspiration was to evolve into a paranoid nutjob, your husband maybe needs to change some things: what he eats, what he listens to, his body chemistry. It is all within his control, and he needs to be made aware of that (by a doctor hopefully) I hope, for your sake, he chooses to do that.
We are going to change some things up a bit in the new year and see what happens. For sure, we both need to get out more - getting too comfortable at mid-life can be a pitfall of sorts. Not exactly sure just what that means but we both need to return to our creative roots and get more involved again in living instead of just being. DH downloaded some upbeat, philosophical talks and will play those on his road trip this week instead of the doom-gloom stuff. It is my nature to always try and make things better so I won't give up on him just yet:)
The economy is likely playing into a lot of it too. There's enough truth in a lot of the conspiracy topics to make it easier to validate some of the more extreme views. For example, the government is controlled by money and elite corporate organizations. Whether or not these people belong to the "Illuminati" isn't really the point. There's also a big difference between storing up a supply of food, water, and emergency supplies for a possible economic collapse (which is actually a good thing to do even without a collapse due to all the weather emergencies that could knock out power and distribution channels for weeks) and building a tinfoil pyramid in the backyard with a huge sign made of flares in preparation for the Zyngoidian invasion which will be led by Obama, who is a Zyngoidian in secret, of course.
I just don't really think we have enough information here to judge whether this man really has a serious problem, or if it's more a matter of him passionately enjoying a hobby/topic that his wife doesn't share. For all we know, he could be on a different forum making similar complaints. :)
That's true. He could be on a forum somewhere typing, "Why doesn't my wife see the danger we're in???? How can I get her to take this seriously??" :D Good perspective.
Glad you're hangin' in there pinkytoe. There's always hope if someone's willing to step out of their habits and try something else.
From what I've observed, conspiracy theorists rarely enjoy their theories. The positive emotions - contentment, gratitude, enjoyment, peace, etc - are rarely stirred by conspiracy theories.
flowerseverywhere
12-21-11, 3:18pm
I vote for a medical checkup. This time of year, many people experience depression from lack of sunlight, reminders of bad childhood experiences, and just the knowledge that your life is not a Norman Rockwell picture.
Hormonal imbalances could be simple factors that influence how we feel, but also they can be a portal into much larger medical problems coming to light. Most women are quite familiar with hormones and how they can affect how you feel. Men are no different, they just have different systems that can get off balance. We certainly live in a world where we are exposed to so many chemicals that having your system upset is certainly understandable.
I don't ever think a change in mood or suddenly becoming paranoid should be dealt with lightly. If he does go and get checked out you will know that at least it isn't a simple problem that can be rectified.
flowerseverywhere
12-21-11, 8:11pm
I wanted to add that I just read a new story and listened to Glenn Becks "message of doom." If you google it and listen to what he says you'll be ready to start heading for the hills scared to death of your shadow, never mind the economy. I can see why someone would get paranoid.
My thoughts are with you. So sorry you have to deal with this. I am sorry that I have no advice to give.
I'm with the people who say that it's a common response to difficult times, and the physical and emotional issues of aging. Along with the fact that there really are serious issues with the leadership of the country, and the wealthy countries of the world as a whole.
Most serious is that we expect Governments to act in the interest of our own citizens, when the wealthy and powerful who own those Governments no longer consider themselves citizens of particular countries.
mtnlaurel
1-23-12, 11:44am
Hi Pinkytoe - I didn't weigh in on this thread earlier, but I can empathize. My mom developed a hyper-conspiracy outlook on life and it's what I grew up in. She smoked epic amounts of weed though and stayed outside the mainstream as much as possible. That given, she did have a lot of good points - if she were alive today to see the development of technology and how willingly the public is letting itself become tracked, she would be off the richter scale.
For my own sanity, I am glad she passed before 'Al Gore invented the Internets' ;)
Here's something I came across today that would have gotten her totally berserk:
http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/?l=shop%2Cpdp%2Cctr-inline%2Fcid-1%2Fpid-524011%2Fpgid-533838&cp=usns_soc_101511_fbshare
This along with....
- willingly letting companies see what you purchase to get a few cents off on groceries
- putting up all of your dearest personal info on facebook, etc
- cell phones with gps
- saving on insurance with a driving tracker
http://www.progressive.com/auto/snapshot-how-it-works.aspx
and on and on...
All of the trappings of 'modern life'.... it's hard not to let your imagination run away with you.
For me, it does't take much to stoke the paranoia fire given my upbringing.... I have to be cautious with my media intake too.
I hope you guys are doing well.
Things are about the same. He knows I don't like to hear about it but still points out things that validate his views. After doing a bit of reading, it seems that conspiracy theories have been around forever and always become more prevalent during scary times. Our difference in personalities optimizes the situation as I tend to be optimistic and ever hopeful and he tends towards the opposite. As I told him and believe, all that really matters in the end is right now, this moment - worrying about the future is pointless.
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