How do so many afford smart phones? [Archive]

treehugger

1-11-12, 2:38pm

I was surprised to learn how expensive the monthly plans are, too. And then there's the monthly charge for an iPad, on top of the crazy purchase price!

I have a semi-smart phone (a Blackberry), but I don't pay for a data package, because I don't want to spend the money. I chose the phone because I wanted one device to handle all my contacts, calendar, MP3s, and be my only phone (we have no landline). So, the Blackberry was the least expensive option for me (at the time).

I have heard, though, that most plans don't let you opt out of paying for the data package any more. Lame! I've had my Blackberry for 2+ years and I will be really sad if it dies since then I will be faced with more expensive phones that do things I don't need. But, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Kara

Alan

1-11-12, 3:02pm

I've had company provided phones, big ones, little ones, dumb ones and smart ones since the very early days of cell phones. For the past ten years or so I've been carrying a blackberry which is convenient for email, both company and personal, and the occasional text with my brother or daughter, but I've never really taken advantage of all the features it offers. I can't imagine paying for it!

When we retire in a few years, I'll probably join my wife and purchase a Tracfone (her's comes with triple minutes for life) and be limited to making/receiving actual phone calls along with an occasional text as I don't think I could justify the expense of something smarter.

flowerseverywhere

1-11-12, 4:04pm

actually I don't think they make you smarter, just more isolated. On NY eve I was playing cards with a 9 and 11 year old at the kitchen table (they know I'm a sucker for games.) I could see five adults, and two teens in the family room tweeting and texting and surfing, having no interaction with human beings at all for several hours, and another adult was sitting in the kitchen with us on a laptop. Several more kids were in the basement playing video games. How can that be smart or make you smart?

In the meantime, we were laughing, talking to each other and generally having a good time. They loved telling me about what was going on in school, telling dumb jokes etc. Generally they wanted an adults attention.

and yes, they are terribly expensive. Add to that the expense of cable and internet and yikes, you can be spending hundreds of dollars a month on this stuff. And we wonder why so many people have no money in the bank.

Miss Cellane

1-11-12, 4:11pm

I know AT&T offers the iPhone at a discount when you get it from them. Of course, you are locked into a plan for two years. They also offer a family plan, where you can get several phones at the same time for less than full price. So getting the smart phone itself isn't necessarily more expensive than some other cell phones.

It's the monthly charges that get you--AT&T is $39.99 for phone service, $15 for data (and you have to have this), and an optional $20 for a text plan or you can pay 20 cents a text. So you could get the absolute minimum and pay $54.99 a month and limit your texts. But you aren't going to get much use of the internet as your downloads will max out pretty quickly and then they automatically add another $15.00 for the month for more data. You do get to use the internet for free if you can find a free wi-fi spot.

I admit I'd love an iPhone. But the monthly fees simply are too high. I have a Virgin Mobile plan for $25/month with 300 minutes of phone, and unlimited texting and internet. However, it's not a 3G phone, it's more like a 1G phone and the internet is slow and clunky. But if I need it in a emergency, it's there. The phone itself cost $50 and works just fine. I do have an iPod Touch, which, if there's free wi-fi, does almost everything an iPhone can do, except the phone part. And there's no monthly fee.

razz

1-11-12, 5:18pm

Interesting to read as I had not considered the cost lately.

Last year, while DH was going through radiation and we were sitting in the waiting area, I spoke to a young woman who paid $75 rental on average monthly, her mother paid the same and another daughter paid her share plus cost to send emails videos of their kids to one another plus lots of texting. In addition, they told me that they pay for internet, landline, and TV cable as well. DH and I were stunned to hear the costs per family for communication.

We have free access aerial for TV, an $11.50 monthly cellphone and about $65 monthly for landline and internet and we were concerned about the cost.

goldensmom

1-11-12, 5:35pm

My pre-teen and teen nieces and nephews have smart phones on a family plan. I've checked into smart phones but the plans are way to expensive for my budget and have way too many features for my needs. I have a 5 year old cell phone that works for me. I also know people who have had the same plan for years, have been grandfathered over the years and their monthly cell phone bill is $10.00.

Tradd

1-11-12, 6:04pm

My costs with Verizon are $85/month. However, I use it to the hilt. Addicted!

Those with family plans pay somewhat less.

puglogic

1-11-12, 6:09pm

I run a small business and must be some kind of freak, because I've managed to grow my business steadily without an iPhone or a Blackberry. (I do have a laptop that I take with me when I want to work remotely, and my cell phone collects email) I guess I don't want to be THAT accessible. But you're right: It's being seen like some kind of must-have these days by the masses, like food, shelter, running water. Weird. {shrug}

Anyone who wants to explore a fictional version of how extreme this can get should read "Super Sad True Love Story" by Gary Shteyngart. It's supposed to be in the future, but it's really pretty much now.

CathyA

1-11-12, 6:44pm

We really are a rich nation.......even the "poor" are so much better off than the poor in other countries.
And our priorities are all screwed up. Who knows what these people aren't paying, in order to get these phones.......or into how much debt they are getting, just to keep up with all the latest electronics.

chanterelle

1-11-12, 6:57pm

I am part of a family plan which gave me a highly discounted phone. I have no cable, land line or other internet access as I use the I phone as a docking station for my lap top. I travel a great deal and have made great use of the gadget for multiple applications.
Like me, my sister has no land line, cable or internet access as this is her only computer access.
None of us went into debt, live well below our means and have our priorities quite well fixed.
Nobody can know where somebody got something from, how much it cost or what use the make of it. Why speculate and judge???
I have a pile of elegant cahsmere sweaters which I got at the swap meet in LA for approx $4 each. I wear them to garden and to clean out the cat boxes among other things. Imagine what a spendthrift my neighbors think me to be!!

pinkytoe

1-11-12, 7:16pm

Nobody can know where somebody got something from
This is very true but one can't help but notice the proliferation of this device throughout all strata and the apparent "must-haveness" of its appeal. I too sat through the recent holiday and observed family members in the same room, silently texting and playing games with each other the entire time. Nary a word spoken and with heads continually downcast at their phones. I am from another planet though where this does not make sense.

herbgeek

1-11-12, 7:29pm

I just got back from a trip to Disney and there were so many people bumping into me (and others) with their eyes constantly on their phone. Really, is that message so important to miss out on your vacation that you paid good money for?

goldensmom

1-11-12, 7:38pm

Nobody can know where somebody got something from, how much it cost or what use the make of it. Why speculate and judge???

Did I miss something? I understood the OP to be a question, not speculation or judgement.

Stella

1-11-12, 7:43pm

I guess I don't get why the assumption is that everyone goes into debt for these things. The older model of iPhone is like $50. If you get the plan, the newer ones are a few hundred dollars.

The data plan is about $25-$30 more a month than most cell phone plans I've had. Most people I know who have smartphones don't have landlines, which is about $25-$30 a month. I know in my sister's case, she doesn't have home internet either. She's not home all that much, so she uses her computer at the office (she owns her own business) and her iPhone at home. She doesn't have cable either.

In my mom's case her work pays for her Android. My dad lives with us and we pay the landline and internet (he pays other bills) and none of us have cable. He makes a decent six figure income and has about $1500 in fixed expenses, so $85 a month really isn't a big deal for him.

I also want to clarify something mentioned earlier, not all iPads need a data plan. There is a model that uses a data plan and a model that just connects to wifi. I have an iPod touch which works the same way.

Something I've noticed about my generation and younger is that we seem to be fine with smaller homes, more willing to drive a smaller, more fuel efficient car, or even go without a car and cut back in other really big ticket areas, but technology is something we're willing to pay for. I've read a lot of surveys of young people who seem to confirm this.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad set of priorities. If we are going to be more mobile and live smaller, and we kind of have to in this economic climate, technology like smartphones and tablets makes that a lot easier. Whole stacks of bookshelves, CD shelves, your TV, your atlas, your calculator, in some cases your computer and a million other items can be replaced with a device that fits in your pocket, or in the case of a tablet, in your purse.

bae

1-11-12, 8:11pm

I'm on a family plan with several other folks, and it keeps the costs way down. And when my mother joined up, she got an iPhone 3GS for free as part of the deal, and she lives on Social Security.

Greg44

1-11-12, 8:23pm

We (dw, dd, dd - not me) have a AT&T family plan. When our middle dd bought her iPhone, we said we weren't paying for the extra - bill went to $ 125.00 per month. So now she pays for her phone/data and portion of the monthly & unlimited texting.

We were slow in getting our dd in high school a phone with unlimited texting...ah last month -- drum roll -- she had 9,000 text messages! shessh. That was 300+ per day. And don't even get me started on Facebook! They completely zone us out. For $ 5.00 a month we can shut her phone off at certain times, etc. We may have to go to that. DW already takes for phone during the nightly homework time.

In the "olden" days we knew someone was on the phone because it had a cord attached - now when she is suppose to be working on home work - we hear giggling! Okay, I must cut her a break she is a 3.5 GPA student, but we just want to keep it that way!

...as for the expense - I think it has almost become a necessity in our moden society -- like the internet...

mara61

1-11-12, 8:41pm

Thanks Stella for speaking up on the Ipad costs. My husband has an Ipad, we do not pay extra for it. We do have smart phones and are on a family plan with my in' laws/sil (with a GM discount to). We pay $55/month for the two phones (with an unlimited data plan). My husband was paying $60/month for his regular cell phone 2 years ago. We haven't gotten rid of our landline yet, but am leaning towards it.

I was never a real gadget gal, and still am not but I really like having a smart phone. I used to have a Palm and for me it's a combo of that and a phone. It is my only way of contacting my husband during the day. He is not allowed to make personal calls from home.

We just did get new phones, Iphones (I previously had an Android). If you don't get the extra "fancy" model the cost is not horrible. I cut back in other areas so that we can have some perks. This is one of them.

heydude

1-11-12, 9:32pm

no matter how poor a person is, they always have a cell phone! i do not get it.

bae

1-11-12, 9:50pm

no matter how poor a person is, they always have a cell phone! i do not get it.

The Federal government provides subsidies for low-cost phone service for low income folks. The subsidies result in some carriers offering free phones and free service to qualifying customers.

treehugger

1-11-12, 9:55pm

mm1970

1-11-12, 10:09pm

I don't much understand it myself. Then again, I have cable TV. And we were talking about how to get TV for less, like internet + HULU, but then you are still paying for internet. Then my engineer said that you can get it on your phone, but then you are paying for a phone.

Locally, we priced out the Iphone, and the cheapest plan for 2 was $160 a month including data. Now, my company will cover part of that for me, which is $40/month. But that means my phone is still $40/month.

Instead, I have a pre-paid phone at $100/year. I don't exactly agree that it's now a "necessity" like the internet, because I'm fine without it. And I'm in a high-tech industry. But also, I try to separate work and home, and it seems that having a smart phone would be a move in the wrong direction.

AmeliaJane

1-11-12, 10:46pm

I agree with Stella, an iPhone doesn't have to be a budget breaker. Mine is on a family plan, so I pay $35 month for my share of phone and unlimited data (we are grandfathered to quite an old plan). I got the phone discounted up front when we committed to a plan. Now that there are multiple generations out there, the older models can be gotten fairly inexpensively. When I got it, I was carfree, and having a smartphone came with a lot of tools that made it much more pleasant to use the bus system (maps, where's my bus app, and, frankly, something small and light to pass the time while I was standing around). A little money on the phone contributed to saving a LOT in auto costs. It was also incredibly helpful just after I'd moved to a new city and was having trouble getting home internet set up. My iPad, which I bought at a serious discount when the new model came out, is wi-fi, so no fees for that although I do have a backup gadget with pay as you go internet for when I travel for work, etc. Just like many things we discuss in these forums, there are ways around paying the sticker price for technology, but I think technology can be a harder area for nonexperts to cut costs. My bargains come from having a brother who is both tightfisted and tech-savvy...

redfox

1-11-12, 11:13pm

First notion to dump is that iPhones aren't primarily phones; they are hand held computers with a cell phone function. If all you want is a phone, don't get one of the smart phones.

I really like my iPhone. I use the navigation tool, the phone function, the mapping function, the email function, and the camera for both stills & vids. I love Facetime; it's the camera phone we all got excited about in the 60's.

I love my iPad too! On it now, it's my primary computer at home, and I use it for my consulting job & my volunteer stuff. I take notes on it on Pages, then email them to myself to print or file later as needed. It is a fantastic tool, and when I got it, I gave my husband my Mac book, to replace our older computer, which he uses to process his digital photographs.

I sense a touch of sarcasm in the "they don't make you smarter" comment, and of course not! The devices are a tool of myriad uses, not a replacement for thinking. My DH & I spend may evenings sitting by the fire & being on our devices, playing vids, listening to music - we both stream Pandora when we cook - and sharing funny posts. We do the same when we read books in the evening, sharing or being silent, depending upon the mood.

The expense is balanced out in our household by not having other expenses. Land line, gone. Movie rentals, gone. Expensive children, gone! It's been a pleasure to have iPhones, and they are an extra to be sure, like beer is, like the car, going out to dinner, buying books. None necessary for sustaining life, and I appreciate them all.

simplelife4me

1-12-12, 12:19am

Tracfone or other prepaid- $100/year

Smart Phone postpaid- ~$500-$1,000/year

redfox

1-12-12, 12:32am

Tracfone or other prepaid- $100/year

Smart Phone postpaid- ~$500-$1,000/year

Right. Bike, $100. Car, $1000. different tools for different uses; some minimal overlap in function & form

domestic goddess

1-12-12, 12:47am

Everyone makes their own decisions about what to use. I don't want to be judged for my prepaid cell phone, without any bells or whistles, so I try (not always successfully) to refrain from making assumptions about the decisions others make, unless they ask for my opinion and give me the necessary details. But I would prefer they wouldn't. In Illinois, anyone who qualifies for government programs (Food Stamps,Medicaid, etc.) can also get a free cell phone. Since I don't have a land line, I can't assume anyone else does. Yes, some of the phones and plans are expensive, but they may be paid for in whole or in part by an employer, or by getting some kind of deal, or whatever. Those of us who live without such things as cable, landlines, Internet service, etc., seem to be so quick to assume that everyone else is spending tons of cash on those very things. I know an increasing number of people who are cutting those things out of their budgets, and it is probably safe to assume that some people have cut them out and don't admit it, as they don't want people to think they are "poor".
F

leslieann

1-12-12, 9:06am

This thread has been great. I have been cell free since summer but I find myself drooling over friends' iPhones; I think I would love one. But whether my affection for and use of the tool would justify the cost....well, not yet, obviously, because I still don't have one. It has been good to hear about how many different ways people use these various types of technology. So what I am doing is trying to imagine, a really detailed fantasy, of what the perfect hand held device would be like for me, considering my likely uses (work and personal) and preferences, and of course budget, and then I'll poke around and see if there is anything that does what I am imagining. At the moment I seem to be surviving just fine with my retro system of home based phone and internet, laptop to go as needed.

This is a good place for me to be aware of wants and needs; desires and preferences; influences of marketing and my fears of being "left-behind" as I get older.

flowerseverywhere

1-12-12, 9:17am

Of course there are so many people who have researched smart phones, have family plans, no land line etc. or feel like a smartphone enhances their lives enough that it is worth the price. There are so many people who are listening to "your Money or your Life" messages, either through blogs, forums, or people like Dave Ramsey for example. So many people here get it and make well thought out choices that are within their personal goals and circumstances.

I don't care how people spend their money, but I will tell you the intrusiveness of phones is what I find difficult. I was at a funeral recently where a pallbearer actually answered his phone and spoke to someone during the service. We were all aghast but then further on one of the deceased sons got a call and took it! Like others have said being at a family function where everyone is sitting around geeking on their phones and there is no social interaction, bumping into you walking down the street, yacking about nothing in a grocery store blocking the aisle, or in the car are examples of why I don't like these devices. As a bike rider (over a thousand miles last year and racking up the miles already this year so far thanks to the great weather) I'll tell you the amount of people talking on hand held phones and texting while driving is astonishing, and I live in a state that has laws banning the same. I always see people who are paying more attention to their phones then the road. I've had a couple of near misses and I avoid busy streets and rush hours.

So on the one hand every day I hear about the dire straights that people are in and how little they are saving for retirement or a rainy day, how much credit card debt people carry and how many are on the brink of being homeless, and on the other hand see the proliferation of expensive electronic devices so it is hard not to make a correlation whether or not it is correct.

here is a recent article from the newspaper

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/11/poll_baby_boomers_working_past.html

among the quotes of the baby boomers in the article "I just feel like I'm going to work until the day I die,"

And recently there was an article in either the paper or AARP magazine DH was reading to me. It had some unbelievable statistic like the majority of people over sixty had something like $30,000 in retirement savings, I couldn't find the exact article but over and over again we see articles about the financial strains people are under and how little is saved for retirement. And we all know that "entitlement programs" like SS and Medicare could very well be slashed with the current deficit. So things are not going well for many Americans and this is a visible example of spending that might not always be wise.

peggy

1-12-12, 9:55am

We don't have a land line but we do have a family plan and husband and daughter both have smart phones. Son in LA has one too. I didn't get one cause I didn't see the need for me, and truthfully husband doesn't really need it either, but both our kids use the heck out of them. Our son needs to drive all over LA and beyond for his work, and he has a GPS app on his which he uses to find places.

creaker

1-12-12, 11:00am

no matter how poor a person is, they always have a cell phone! i do not get it.

And they have a fridge - and a lot of other things.

When you calculate the cost of a cell phone vs. land line + internet + computer (many people use cell phone for all of these) it's not that surprising. There are many places in 3rd world now where people are more likely to have a cell phone than a toilet or running water.

Add in the number of people who have these phones that can't afford them (committed to 1-2 year plan and are stuck or on their way to defaulting) and it's even less surprising.

I still have yet to own my own cell phone/smartphone - I have a blackberry for work, it doesn't do much and what it can do is locked down by my work, but spending money on my own phone seems silly.

pinkytoe

1-12-12, 12:11pm

My co-worker just showed me her new 4g i-phone and how she can ask it questions. I must admit - it is amazing technology but necessary - no. I think many are addicted to their devices but would never put it that way.
By the way, the only service we now have at home is dsl. When we dropped the landline, they "adjusted" our bill by adding $20 to the monthly cost so we are now being charged $49 vs $30 a month even though we have cell service through them too.
I don't know when this stuff got so complicated...

CathyA

1-12-12, 2:36pm

I hate to always sound pessimistic, but I can't help thinking of how many people rely on these things, that very few people are smart enough to invent. Just saying........

Stella

1-12-12, 3:43pm

I hate to always sound pessimistic, but I can't help thinking of how many people rely on these things, that very few people are smart enough to invent. Just saying........

We are reliant on a whole lot of things very few people are smart enough to have invented. Cars, computers, power plants, telephones, radios, televisions, airplanes, water treatment plants...the list is a mile long.

razz

1-12-12, 6:07pm

To go with Stella's observation, large numbers of us don'thave to be inventors. Technology has grown over the centuries but the great insights are limited to a few at all times. We still don't really know how the Pyramids were built using only manpower, do we? Engineers are fascinated at the vault ceilings in very old churches. We have a small one nearby that engineers come to inspect to admire its simple efficient technology.

The OP wondered the 'how' about the affordability and I think that it comes down to one's priorities as many other things do. I place a priority on different things in my spending, that's all.

bae

1-12-12, 6:52pm

To go with Stella's observation, large numbers of us don'thave to be inventors.

I think a bigger problem these days is that too few people have any real-world skills. Simply being able to use the technology and knowledge that our ancestors left to us. How many people have the faintest clue how to produce their own food, get clean drinking water, manage their own sanitation, and so on?

How much food is sitting on the shelves of your average grocery store, how much food does your average consumer have in their home, how much clean drinking water do they have handy for when the power goes out...?

Every time there is a storm here, I see unprepared people struggling, even though our small county spends a lot of effort on education. So it is no surprise to me that in Katrina-scale events, people mill around without a clue, texting each other, wondering "what next?"

I almost think we ought to drop every graduating high schooler off in Alaska for a couple of weeks (during the warm season) as part of their final graduation exam....

Stella

1-12-12, 7:30pm

I think a bigger problem these days is that too few people have any real-world skills. Simply being able to use the technology and knowledge that our ancestors left to us. How many people have the faintest clue how to produce their own food, get clean drinking water, manage their own sanitation, and so on?

That completely agree with. I'd admit my own skills could use some honing in some of those areas, even after having actually spent a summer in Alaska as a teen. :) My older kids are enrolled in a winter survival class next week, which I think will be really interesting for them.

That said, and I know many here would agree with me, it is totally possible to have real world skills and still enjoy the benefits of modern technology. Sometimes I see those things painted as though they were mutually exclusive. Technology, from stone tools to iPads, are just tools. They aren't inherently good or evil. It's all in how you use it.

flowerseverywhere

1-12-12, 7:47pm

Bae, you hit the nail on the head. Yes technology is great but you better be prepared if any disaster (manmade or natural) happens

Here is an excellent real life blog of a guy who learned stuff he never wanted to know about post Katrina

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html

when you have no power and no internet or cell service life is a whole different game. It can happen in any area of any country.

another great story is Zeitoun, by Eggars who was held in a cage after being falsely arrested- he and several others were going around helping people break out of their houses and bringing abandoned dogs food. Per the amazon website "When Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, Abdulrahman Zeitoun, a prosperous Syrian-American and father of four, chose to stay through the storm to protect his house and contracting business. In the days after the storm, he traveled the flooded streets in a secondhand canoe, passing on supplies and helping those he could. A week later, on September 6, 2005, Zeitoun abruptly disappeared"

Rogar

1-12-12, 9:46pm

I had a discussion with a friend the other day about his budget. His smart phone, internet and cable TV totaled about $250/month. All of these are seem like they becoming more a requirement than a luxury, which just seems crazy to me. For those who can afford it I suppose it's a cost that has a relatively low environment cost, but for the rest it really gets down to, "your money or your life."

pcooley

1-13-12, 12:22am

I use an iPod Touch for most of the smart phone things. It works great, and I can make free calls over WiFi with Talkatone, or pay a small amount and use Skype. When we traveled in India, I used Skype over the hotel WiFi when we were in places that had it, and it worked fine and was cheap.

I would, like many, love to have an iPhone, but the Touch does almost everything, (minus the GPS), the iPhone does, and there's no monthly charge.

For emergency cell phone use, my wife and I both have an iWireless pay-as-you-go phone with their $5 a month plan. I use the cell phone about once every month when I'm not traveling. It's just not worth it to pay any more.

I too don't know where people get the money to pay for these things. I feel the same way about cars. We're carfree and cell-phone light. I feel like we're fairly middle class, (we both have graduate degrees), and our income is a little over $50,000 a year. Still, it's a struggle to make and stay on budget. Still, we're closing in on having $100,000 in retirement, have a month's expenses saved in our emergency fund, (still nowhere near three to six month's), and are on schedule for paying off the house and being completely debt-free by 2019. Nevertheless, my children think we're poor because all their friends have cars and smart phones and their parents pick them up from elementary school to take them out for lunch at McDonald's. I just keep telling our children we have a different set of values.

I hope we're building a stable future for both us and our children, but there are times I wonder what's going on when I see someone who works at Target driving a Mercedes and using an iPhone. Where does that money come from indeed?

redfox

1-13-12, 12:31am

I just came from a community safety organizing meeting, and as we divvied up the 'whose gonna call who' list for the next meeting, one of the folks there got out his iphone & looked up all the numbers we each needed to make our calls (to public agencies). It was great!

A bonus, not a necessity, but oh-so helpful, and because we all had all the numbers at that moment, we decided that all of us would call a few of the high profile folks we want to pay attention to our neighborhood needs.

We're also going to gather in a week to phone bank together, calling our neighbors for a Take Back Our Streets rally. This way, more calls will be made because we're doing it together on our various mobile devices.

Innovative technologies beget innovative actions!

flowerseverywhere

1-13-12, 12:33am

cattledog

1-13-12, 12:53am

This is a funny subject to see today. My DH just brought home an iPhone today. They're pretty cool. I've never used a smart phone, but it's easy to pick up. Since his old phone contract expired, the phone was around $150. He chose the cheapest data plan since he can just use the WiFi in the house if he wants to use it. I think it's an extra $15/mo on top of the $75/mo we pay for our phone service. I don't have a smart phone though. I've got nothing against them, I'm just too cheap! I prefer the larger screen of the laptop for internet surfing and I don't have much use for it when I'm out and about w/my kid.

I finally succumbed to getting a cell phone a few years ago when I was pregnant w/DD. I was commuting a long distance and I wanted it for emergencies. I barely use it. I might call my hubby or mom once in a while, but that's it. If I were a 20-something again, it would be great I think. When my kid gets older, I'll probably have to upgrade to keep in touch with her. >8)

puglogic

1-13-12, 1:48am

] Our son needs to drive all over LA and beyond for his work, and he has a GPS app on his which he uses to find places.

Back in the dinosaur days where I still live, we would call that "using a map". Most kids don't know how to find or use a map these days. Not to be snarky, 'cause I certainly don't mean it that way, but there's a lot of justification going on among people who continually justify upgrading to the latest electronic tool. How did we manage to get around, have conversations, maintain jobs and friendships before we were plugged in 24/7 through our smart phones and iPads? Anyway, not my business until someone whines to me about what they cost, and (usually in the same sentence) how they can't afford their credit card payments. Then I feel sad.

But that's just me being a grumpy old lady :D

ApatheticNoMore

1-13-12, 3:45am

Back in the dinosaur days where I still live, we would call that "using a map". Most kids don't know how to find or use a map these days.

Yea really.

The main reason I will never have some smart phone plan is I hate monthly bills. Buying a snazzy new computer, ok I can live with that, it's a one time purchase (oh sure eventually it may be old and outdated and so it is not exactly a once in a lifetime purchase, but it's not an every month purchase either). Bills I have to pay every month, well I hate them for the same reason companies love them.

bae

1-13-12, 4:13am

Well, to me, a purchased item still represents a stream of monthly payments, going on forever.

Consider: if you buy a $2000 new computer, that same $2000 invested at 5% earns $100 per year, forever. So you have to ask yourself: is the computer worth the loss forever of that monthly income to me, my children, their children, and so on?

jennipurrr

1-13-12, 1:34pm

Timely post, since DH and I were the subject of (good natured) ridicule recently for our antiquated cell phones. We just have calling on a family plan with my parents- no data or text. DH's employer reimburses him a set amount for being available by phone, which basically equals our cost ($25/mo). I personally do not want the added expense and the monthly bill. My friend was picking on me saying my Mortgage Burning party should be called pony up for a data plan party, heh. I think I would really like XM radio too, but I really don't want more monthly expenses in my life. I see a lot of people with super snazzy phones who could spend the money elsewhere and probably be just as happy and more financially sound, but its their choice, that is for sure. BIL who is always living hand to mouth was in this conversation (picking on us of course) and said his Iphone bill for two people runs around $200/mo!

I do have an ipad and love it, but its wi-fi only. I looked at getting a smart phone without a data plan where I could just use the wi-fi, but oh no, ATT does not let you do that! An ipod touch would accomplish a similar goal though, but eh, I don't really need it. I do admit that if I ever get back into buying stuff at the salvage store and reselling on ebay a data plan/smart phone would be a must...the cost would be minimal to the direct financial benefit it would provide.

babr

1-13-12, 2:14pm

i have no idea what an iphone, ipad, android; well they used to be those little green men

and and i don't want to know; but i don't want to put down others; i put my money on trips; thats where my passions lie, lay?

we all have things we enjoy; its where you want to put your money imo

Miss Cellane

1-13-12, 2:54pm

Back in the dinosaur days where I still live, we would call that "using a map". Most kids don't know how to find or use a map these days. Not to be snarky, 'cause I certainly don't mean it that way, but there's a lot of justification going on among people who continually justify upgrading to the latest electronic tool. How did we manage to get around, have conversations, maintain jobs and friendships before we were plugged in 24/7 through our smart phones and iPads? Anyway, not my business until someone whines to me about what they cost, and (usually in the same sentence) how they can't afford their credit card payments. Then I feel sad.

But that's just me being a grumpy old lady :D

I have to admit I have a GPS and I love it. Maps are useful and I know how to read them. But most of the time, when I'm driving, I'm alone in the car. If there's a lot of traffic, it can be tricky juggling the map or the written directions and still keeping an eye on the road and also looking for street signs. I love, love, love the fact that the GPS "talks" to me and I don't have to look anywhere except where I'm driving and the screen of the GPS (which is positioned much more safely than a map on the passenger's seat). And if I miss a turn, the GPS will recalculate the route automatically and still get me where I need to be. And even if I can't see a street sign, because it's blocked by a tree or something, the GPS knows which street is which and can show me where to turn. Which, in Boston traffic, is a lifesaver. The other drivers there are unforgiving and the one-way streets make it almost impossible to get back to where you missed your turn. And there's nowhere to pull over, stop and read the map.

If I always had a passenger who could read maps and give good directions with me, I wouldn't need the GPS.

Zoebird

1-13-12, 4:09pm

funny what you say about maps puglogic. i used maps to get us through NZ during our trip (it's not difficult), btu people kept saying "where is your gps? where is your gps?" and i kept showing them my map books (there's one for North island; one for south.). I love using maps. I love all kinds of maps, and even do well with topographical maps. it's sad to me that this skill is being lost.

a friend of mine is a map-maker (cartographer). his work is *so* amazing to me, and I love to see his works-in-progress. he's just amazing. :) he says it's sad that his work is largely being lost by GPS. but, he said, someone still needs to make the maps for GPS to work.

also, on my holiday, i learned how NZ became a British territory . New Zealand was found by Abel Tasman, a dutch sailor, first (well, after the maori of course), but in order to claim an area as a territory, you have to have the longitude and latitude.

it was here that Captain Cook, from GB, was able take advantage of the fact that Abel Tasman did not get the coordinates. He came into what is now "mercury bay" and utilized the eclipse of mercury and the sun (mercury traversing across the sun) to determine the latitude and longitude of New Zealand. Once this was reported and recorded, NZ belonged to the british empire.

So, look at the skill of this man -- sailor, astronomer, mathematician. . . good lord. I know there are people who can still do this, but REALLY?

Anyway, most of my friends have iPhones (in the US) -- some can afford them, btu others, I have no clue how they do at all.

loosechickens

1-13-12, 4:21pm

I hate GPS units.....we've made our way around well over a dozen countries with maps, including Belgium during a period when there was a huge fight about whether the signs should be in French or Flemish, so they just took them down. The same thing in Tegucigalpa, Honduras just after the war, when all the signs had been removed because Honduras feared invasion from Nicaragua......but now, after 20 years of all working just fine without a GPS, my sweetie has become hooked on the desire to have one...

SO.....two days ago, I got him one for his birthday, and it is now in the car. Our one compromise was that I can continue to have my maps, the lady in the box, "Jill" (I call her 'that bimbo') who is attempting to take my place as navigator, will be shut off and I won't have to listen to that voice when I'm in the car.....he can look at the thing all the time, he can have Jill's voice to keep him company when he's driving alone, so hopefully both of us will be reasonably satisfied.......

LooseChickens, being dragged, kicking and screaming in many ways, into the 21st Century.........

loosechickens

1-13-12, 4:32pm

"Well, to me, a purchased item still represents a stream of monthly payments, going on forever.

Consider: if you buy a $2000 new computer, that same $2000 invested at 5% earns $100 per year, forever. So you have to ask yourself: is the computer worth the loss forever of that monthly income to me, my children, their children, and so on?" (bae)
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That's exactly how we think, too, bae......which is a large part of the reason we find it so hard to spend money on frivolous things.......it's looking at that object and measuring it against how much money that money could make over a period of time, which makes most things one might buy look expensive, indeed......

We HAVE started setting aside incidental income in an account we call "windfalls" with the specific purpose of spending that money on frivolity. But it's hard, after a lifetime of saving and investing every penny we could.

At some point, though, we're realizing, we have to develop a sense of "enough", and let go of the overuse of the savings/investing habit. And my sweetie getting a GPS is kind of honoring that, although I much prefer to navigate just with a map.

domestic goddess

1-13-12, 5:04pm

My pre-paid cell phone does all I need it to: it makes and receives calls and texts. I find that I get too engaged in gadgets, and then big chunks of time just slip away from me, so I tend to see them as time-wasters, rather than time savers.
My dd has a GPS in her car that I have used occasionally to get to work at a new location and that has been a help, since I work at night and can't always read directions in the dark. But it scares me to death when it talks to me, so I often turn off the sound and just use the map.

studentofecology

1-13-12, 6:35pm

I, personally, will never have a gps in the car. I, as a passenger, was once in a car spinning around and skidding all over I-5 because the driver took the wrong second to look at the gps. It was amazing that we didn't hit anyone. In my opinion, the few the distractions, the better.

bae

1-13-12, 7:15pm

So, look at the skill of this man -- sailor, astronomer, mathematician. . . good lord. I know there are people who can still do this, but REALLY?

Not all of us who wander are lost :-)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2OhVT6LZUV4/TnvW0hqAQ1I/AAAAAAAAD28/wH7vRHwP5Pg/s720/IMG_2732.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sAkCnad89uU/TjjDE1EP42I/AAAAAAAADDc/y7vHoGF_-eQ/s640/IMG_2327.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nXhaIu5GETM/TjjB0YA1L4I/AAAAAAAADC8/6CjWMmigido/s640/IMG_2329.JPGp

Every well-educated gentleman should know celestial navigation, for goodness sake.

babr

1-14-12, 9:58am

oh very cool bae!

my senior neighbor has a gps device;she was driving me to an appt.; she entered the info. into it; but then it wouldn't respond; she kept yelling at it to get it started; it was actually very funny

between the two of us we found the place and when we were just down the road; it kicked in

my senior folks bought one when they first came out; its sitting somewhere in a pile of other things they bought but never used

but again its your priorities;

trying to think of the early name for them; it was a funny name; oh i know tom-tom!

Tenngal

1-16-12, 3:30pm

same here, I just don't understand how the cost is justified. I have a 5-yr old razr and will use it until it stops......the only reason we have cells at all is to keep up with my girls who are out and about. If not for this, I'd go back to the old land line and answering machine.

ljevtich

1-17-12, 4:43am

The Federal government provides subsidies for low-cost phone service for low income folks. The subsidies result in some carriers offering free phones and free service to qualifying customers.
I would think that those phones would be the only ones they have. And that they would be using them to find a job.

Of course there are so many people who have researched smart phones, have family plans, no land line etc. or feel like a smartphone enhances their lives enough that it is worth the price. There are so many people who are listening to "your Money or your Life" messages, either through blogs, forums, or people like Dave Ramsey for example. So many people here get it and make well thought out choices that are within their personal goals and circumstances.

....

.....
And recently there was an article in either the paper or AARP magazine DH was reading to me. It had some unbelievable statistic like the majority of people over sixty had something like $30,000 in retirement savings, I couldn't find the exact article but over and over again we see articles about the financial strains people are under and how little is saved for retirement. And we all know that "entitlement programs" like SS and Medicare could very well be slashed with the current deficit. So things are not going well for many Americans and this is a visible example of spending that might not always be wise.

Maybe it is this article (http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/2011/02/10/turning-65-with-nothing-saved-for-retirement):
While the majority of Americans are tucking something away for retirement, most people who are building a nest egg haven’t accumulated very much. More than half (54 percent) of workers report they have less than $25,000 in savings and investments, EBRI found. And over a quarter (27 percent) of retirement savers have accumulated less than $1,000.

I think a bigger problem these days is that too few people have any real-world skills. ...when the power goes out...?

Every time there is a storm here, I see unprepared people struggling, even though our small county spends a lot of effort on education. So it is no surprise to me that in Katrina-scale events, people mill around without a clue, texting each other, wondering "what next?"Well, with Katrina type stuff, there would not be the texting as there would not be internet nor cell service. When 9-11 happened, no one could call out for hours or days.

When my sis-in-law and her family went thru a power-outage this past fall, there was "nothing to do" but wait around for it to turn on. The kids were bored and wanted to go someplace where they had electricity! Sad state of affairs.

Just was talking to DH, he is on a forum group, where lots of the guys do not even have a pot to "p*ss" in, and the guy was trying to figure out how to cut down expenses on his cable. ($202 for cable and internet) The guy and his wife both have smart phones, and he has this thing called Roku box which allows you to see streaming video (which means you get a subscription from Hulu or Netflix) You have to have high internet to get this thing to work.

My husband said, why don't you get over the air antenna and get rid of the cable or just have the cable for internet. They thought he was from Mars.

People complain that they have no money and then have an expensive other doodad whatever it is and you just look at them like WTF? When you make suggestions they say that OH NO don't take away my doodad, I need it (really want it bad!)

But if a person is in debt up to their eyeballs and can't find a way out, getting a smart phone is not going to help them. Having a pay as you go phone and using the internet at a library computer works just as well.