When Ownership Is Not Possible / Gray Areas [Archive]

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heydude

2-2-12, 10:11pm

I think it is cool how there are many cracks in "ownership."

Can you think of things?

Who owns the oceans?
The moon?

If a guy owned the moon, could you break it a part and sell it off?

What about exchanging sex for money? How do you determine who gets paid? Do they both have to pay each other?

What about a TV show that is all about super bowl commercials? Does doritos have to pay to be in the program or just as a commercial on the commercial break? Or does CBS have to pay Doritos for letting them feature their commercial on their TV show?

ehehhehehehehee

Kathy WI

2-3-12, 12:22am

I own my house, so sometimes I wonder how deep into the ground I own my property. Is it a wedge shaped thing that goes to the center of the earth? If not, how deep into the dirt do I own the property?

Selah

2-3-12, 4:32am

Anne Lee

2-3-12, 8:21am

I frequently think of this question when I see birds, bugs, fish, squirrels, lizards, snakes, wild cats, and so on. Who "owns" them? And yet we're all responsible for them...they can't live if we don't keep the place habitable for them.

Nobody owns them but your state fish and wildlife department manages them.

And you aren't allowed to own a piece of the moon. That belongs to the Feds.

Regarding your land, different people can own different rights to your land. So you might own the land, but someone else may own the mineral rights. In some states, someone else may have the right to the rain that falls on your land.

Mrs-M

2-3-12, 8:55am

I've given much thought to this over the years, and really, we own nothing in this world. Nothing. For instance, let's take a look at home-ownership. We can brag all we want to in relation to holding the legal papers/documents to a free and clear land-title, but really, we don't own the land/lot our homes sit on, because if we did, we wouldn't have to pay taxes on it.

As for possessions such as antiques and collectibles, we are simply guardians and caregivers of such acquisitions, overseeing their safety, their care, and their keep, until such a time the next generation of succeeding guardians are incarnated and appointed the crest to continue the tradition of preservation.

leslieann

2-3-12, 9:22am

In this province, I might own a piece of land but if someone should happen to discover minerals on it (gold, anyone?) they are not mine.

So my favorite childhood fantasy, that I would be digging in the ground and strike oil like the Beverly Hillbillies, is a mere illusion....sigh.....

Fawn

2-3-12, 11:35am

The Feds own the moon? Really? Because someone stuck an American flag in it, it belongs to the United States? And the federal government could blow it up if they wanted w/ no legal recourse?

Sorry, that was a blatant thread hyjack.

HeyDude, to me most ownership is grey area, though I know the law if very clear if I try to use your car without permission or live in your apartment when you do not want me there. I don't like to have to be responsible for alot of stuff as it is just feels like more work to me, but for people who see it as extrensions of their ego, lots of nice things is important.

I do need quiet and space for my mental health, so being in an environment where I can say, "Here is a line of space/time you can not cross without consequences" helps me keeps my head together. Property ownership helps create that space/time.

Mighty Frugal

2-3-12, 1:08pm

I'm curious too about the 'Feds' owning the moon? So it belongs to the U.S.A.? Am I permitted to look at it? Should they not charge the rest of the world for all the work the moon does (the tides, the bringing out the 'crazies' during a full moon, the romantic gazing, etc)

I don't think anyone owns the moon. Just like countries only 'own' a certain part of the oceans they are attached to-after a certain amount of miles/km..it is owned by nobody (as far as I know)

Love the thought about how much of your property do you own-how deep? To the iron core?

And what about the sun or the planets-can I get a slice of that pie too? Or do the 'Feds' own that too;)

Like Mrs. M. I came to the realization I own nothing. It was the evening we brought home our first son. I walked him around our home pointing out things and it hit me 'none of this belongs to me. None of it. I am just borrowing it from him'

Acorn

2-3-12, 3:08pm

I like to believe I own my thoughts and actions, but even those are a product of the society in which we are born.

Spartana

2-3-12, 4:05pm

Here's who owns the moon: No one - but there are governing laws in place by the UN:

United Nations Treaties and Principles on Space Law
The Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space is the only international forum for the development of international space law. Since its inception, the Committee has concluded five international legal instruments and five sets of legal principles governing space-related activities.

The five treaties and agreements are:
The Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies (the "Outer Space Treaty"), adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 2222 (XXI), opened for signature on 27 January 1967, entered into force on 10 October 1967;
The Agreement on the Rescue of Astronauts, the Return of Astronauts and the Return of Objects Launched into Outer Space (the "Rescue Agreement"), adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 2345 (XXII), opened for signature on 22 April 1968, entered into force on 3 December 1968;
The Convention on International Liability for Damage Caused by Space Objects (the "Liability Convention"), adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 2777 (XXVI), opened for signature on 29 March 1972, entered into force on 1 September 1972;
The Convention on Registration of Objects Launched into Outer Space (the "Registration Convention"), adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 3235 (XXIX), opened for signature on 14 January 1975, entered into force on 15 September 1976;
The Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies (the "Moon Agreement"), adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 34/68, opened for signature on 18 December 1979, entered into force on 11 July 1984.

The international legal principles in these five treaties provide for non-appropriation of outer space by any one country, arms control, the freedom of exploration, liability for damage caused by space objects, the safety and rescue of spacecraft and astronauts, the prevention of harmful interference with space activities and the environment, the notification and registration of space activities, scientific investigation and the exploitation of natural resources in outer space and the settlement of disputes. Each of the treaties lays great stress on the notion that the domain of outer space, the activities carried out therein and whatever benefits might accrue therefrom should be devoted to enhancing the well-being of all countries and humankind, and each includes elements elaborating the common idea of promoting international cooperation in outer space activities.

The five sets of legal principles adopted by the United Nations General Assembly provide for the application of international law and promotion of international cooperation and understanding in space activities, the dissemination and exchange of information through transnational direct television broadcasting via satellites and remote satellite observations of Earth and general standards regulating the safe use of nuclear power sources necessary for the exploration and use of outer space.

Nella

2-3-12, 5:36pm

Spartana

2-3-12, 6:17pm

I don't think anyone owns the Antarctic continent - although there are treaties about it. Heaven forbid that they should start finding valuable resources to mine. You can bet there'd be ownership squabbles then!

Thats true. They are always having ongoing disputes about it too.

I consider that I owned my own paid off home even if I have to pay taxes on it to keep it. That's just a "maintenance" thing imo. The same way that I own my body but have to feed it so it'll live. Of course ownership of something doesn't mean it can't be taken from you or be destroyed. Your house by eminent domain, natural disaster, armed force. Your body/life by death. Responsibilty for something also doesn't equate ownership. Legal title tor law to something does: Legally, I "own" my dog but not my spouse. I can keep one from leaving but not the other. I can imprison or even put one to death, but not the other.

Kathy WI

2-3-12, 11:10pm

Several countries claim this ridiculous island http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall which is just a tall rock with steep sides sticking up out of the Atlantic.

bae

2-3-12, 11:20pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrAS20mNZUE

razz

2-4-12, 10:08am

When we had "the commons" concept governing our actions, everyone was responsible for sharing and maintaining the areas. Once we got into the concept of ownership, indigenous people have been appointed owners, told to sign and severe exploitation has taken place in the Americas and depleted especially third world exploitation of minerals and flora like lumber.

One of the biggest challenges of settling land claims with the 'first nations' in Canada is determining who owns what and when was it sold and did those individuals have the legitimate authority of the time to make that sale?

I was watching TVO.org, our public broadcasting station, and a biologist-panelist stated on The Agenda program that billions had been removed in minerals from a disputed area of BC with no compensation to the indigenous people in the area who held it "in common" ownership. No charge or penalty to the corporations who exploited this resource and left a terrible blight on the area has been made. It is understood that the first nation in this case has law on its side for the property settlement.
So, in the case of mineral rights, do the extractors not have to protect the property or can they leave a whole ecosystem destroyed in the hunt for minerals?

Jemima

2-4-12, 11:56am

I take the Christian viewpoint - God owns it all. Whatever I have in this earthly lifetime is a gift and a loan, and I am to take care of it as wisely as I can.