View Full Version : Lipitor Kills
Pfizer, one of the sleaziest pharmas on the planet, is now being required to warn users of the diabetes risk:
http://news.yahoo.com/fda-adds-safety-information-statin-drugs-184400171.html
Don't trust anything that's prescribed. Research every new prescription before you get it filled.
It can also save lives. That's part of the whole effects of drugs thing. Called side effects if they are not what is intended, weirdly enough.
Ditto on the research it all. Balance the risks & benefits, as with everything!
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-12, 3:58pm
Yea was going to, may still make a post on whether my mom should take cholesterol meds (saw this new warning stuff when researching). I tell mom not to take them, but as usual noone listens to me :P. For some reason she'd rather listen to her doctor, who keeps *INSISTING* on the cholesterol meds every darn doctors visit (even gave free samples).
1) Mom's total cholesterol is high (240)
2) Her LDL is somewhat high
4) Her ratio of good cholesterol to bad cholesterol is actually very good
4) good triglycerides
5) no diabetes
6) she has high blood pressure but is on blood pressure meds
7) NO family history of heart disease or stroke (family risks are alzheimers, arthritis, macular degeneration, hearing loss)
8) Mom is obese and in her early-mid 70s
9) Does not smoke, hasn't for several decades and never was a heavy smoker (but I do have a moron sibling who sometimes exposes her to second hand smoke)
10) no heart symptoms
Tell me why is this basically healthy woman being put on this cr@p? Especially considering the ratio of good to total cholesterol is good. The doctor says it is because of the combination of total cholesterol being high and bad cholesterol somewhat high.
Aren't there other blood tests these days that are more reliable than cholesterol for heart disease risks? Which test are these? I want my mom to take them (I have a feeling they will come out showing she isn't actually a heart disease risk). What else can mom do about bad cholesterol being high besides take these stupid meds?
Losing weight and exercise will lower cholesterol, but may not be easy for a sedentary 70ish woman to do on her own. Maybe you could encourage her to walk with a neighbor, or get involved in a senior exercise group?
I was listening to a radio program this morning about these drugs. Research continues to come in that there are many unintended consequences to taking them. Things that go beyond mere side effects.They apparently interfere with nutrient absorption which slowly causes changes to the brain and other metabolic systems. Currently, my fil is on all of these treatments offered to everyone over a certain age. Every new drug he takes causes a side effect which then is treated with another drug - it makes me so angry that all our medical system ever does is screen and treat symptoms.
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-12, 5:09pm
I was listening to a radio program this morning about these drugs. Research continues to come in that there are many unintended consequences to taking them. Things that go beyond mere side effects.They apparently interfere with nutrient absorption which slowly causes changes to the brain and other metabolic systems.
Yea they seem to be bad for the brain. That was more an alternative view, but now warnings of at least temporary mental confusion (temporarily meaning for as long as you are on the drugs) is going mainstream (it is in the FDA warning). So really my mom with no family history of heart disease and no current cognitive impariment HOWEVER a family history of Alzheimers is going on these? I don't want her to wind up dead on the floor of a heart attack either but .... I'm trying to assess if that is even likely.
Currently, my fil is on all of these treatments offered to everyone over a certain age. Every new drug he takes causes a side effect which then is treated with another drug - it makes me so angry that all our medical system ever does is screen and treat symptoms.
+ 1000. Screen and prescribe, screen and prescribe. I've seen it again and again. I mean it seems most of the time the doctors are treating symptoms they can't EVEN diagnose (not talking cholesterol here but other things). So it goes like this 1) try to get a diagnosis 2) fail to diagnose anything 3) throw drugs at the problem anyway. Drugs piled on top of drugs and it is NEVER EVEN CONSIDERED that maybe they should investigate if prior drugs might be what is causing the symptoms for which they have just prescribed new drugs (so I feel this is more research I must do - for my parents etc. etc.).
The problem everyone focuses on with the medical system is that many people don't have insurance etc.. That is *a* problem, but even when you have insurance, heck Medicare even, this medical system is total garbage.
I share your fears. The cholesterol numbers really don't mean anything at all. The human brain is 60% fat and the liver makes cholesterol, so I figure fat has a place in the human diet.
I quit trusting my doctor about three months ago.
I wouldn't take a statin under any circumstances. I have read repeatedly that there is only a tiny cohort of people--middle-aged men with a history of heart attack--who may be helped by these profitable medications. May being the operative word. Ask your pusher, er doctor to provide studies showing increased life expectancy for women taking Lipitor. Then find a doctor who isn't in thrall to Pharma for expensive junkets to faraway resorts.
APM, has your mom been educated about red yeast rice? Also a statin, albeit a natural one, but showing good success with many individuals, and at a fraction of the price of lipitor. Though I'm not 100% convinced that I need to take ANYTHING, spending the $7.00/month on it has helped my levels quite a lot, ymmv. You just have to start with the lowest dosage possible and look for the brands that are careful about citrinin (toxic).
Ok, rant here dont read if you dont want to read a rant...............................
This type of headline or title is like a tabloid title. The Sky is Falling, The Sky is Falling. Heck, water kills, aspirin kills, peanuts can kill. We all have to learn what are the pros and cons of each medicine and realize that doctors and drug companies do not have failure proof knowledge of the human body. Risks and rewards are on a teeter totter balance and are different for each person.
All I know is that every single person in my life who has taken a statin has ended up--at the very least--with intractable muscle pain. One was diagnosed with polymyalgia rheumatica--a wastebasket diagnosis if there ever was one--and prescribed steroids for a year. If the first drug makes things worse, add more drugs! Speaking of rants, I feel myself warming up to one, so I won't go into all the sequelae of that first prescription.
Note: cholesterol is a natural protective substance necessary for proper brain function. I like my brain just the way it is. I don't believe for a minute that statins would protect me from a heart attack, but at any rate I'm not willing to risk dementia to find out.
Ok, rant here dont read if you dont want to read a rant...............................
This type of headline or title is like a tabloid title. The Sky is Falling, The Sky is Falling. Heck, water kills, aspirin kills, peanuts can kill. We all have to learn what are the pros and cons of each medicine and realize that doctors and drug companies do not have failure proof knowledge of the human body. Risks and rewards are on a teeter totter balance and are different for each person.
So True! I trust my doctor and follow his/her advice. I do question and if I am not 100% sure I like the answer I change doctors. Remember people are living longer today because of doctors and drugs.
I quit trusting my doctor about three months ago.
Wow, that is awful. It's so helpful to find a PCP one can trust... I looked around for years before finding a Physican's Assistant I feel completely safe with, and I really like her.
Wildflower
3-1-12, 11:54pm
I was advised by my doctor that I needed to get my cholesterol levels down. She knows I do not want to take any meds if possible so I followed her advice which was to double up on my fish oil supplements daily and cut down on the bad carbs in my diet. Within 2 months all of my cholesterol readings, including triglycerides were in a normal range. I will never take any cholesterol lowering medication the rest of my life. I now know I can manage it on my own. Of course, that doesn't work for everyone and they have to make some informed choices regarding these meds...
And I might add that I love my doctor. We work well together...
My DH was on Lipitor about a year ago. He started having terrible muscle pains in his legs, his knees started giving out on him without warning. I then really researched this drug and told him to get off of it, which he did. He had only been on it for about 5 weeks. He's ok now, although he had to take steroids for awhile. He has always been thin at 165 lbs. 6'1" tall, and quite active, but he changed his diet just a little, started taking fish oil and his cholesterol levels are way down, in a normal range now. He plans to never ever take those meds again either....
Eat (normal food that your grandmother would recognizie), not too much and mostly plants. Omnivore's Dilemma diet works well for controlling most health problems, it seems. Meds are often required for those who don't follow this regime. It is always your choice.
Or go paleo or low-carb. There are plenty of anecdotal reports of vastly improved health from people doing so.
I don't agree that good health is always a choice, but eating a traditional human diet is often therapeutic. I also don't agree that medications are "required." We do still have choice in the matter. They usually do as much harm as good. Or more.
I also heard a report on NPR yesterday that talked about a study in which fasting was jsed to correct blood pressure. THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE! It was very interesting, however, and worth finding imho.
ApatheticNoMore
3-2-12, 2:53pm
Thanks for the tips Wildflower. I will maybe get my mom some fish oil (dont' take it myself because I eat lots of fish), and tell her to avoid bad carbs (yesterday I shared some lemon tart, but I'll stop, it's not like I eat that that often myself, no more of that). I actually think at this point there may be more evidence showing fish oil reducing heart attack risk than statins.
The problem with most strict diets is I personally am very poor at compliance. I just can't psychologically. But I certainly agree with eating real foods. And for some reason I have an odd fascination with eastern Orthodox style fasting lately (periods of vegetarianism etc. - not true fasting as in no food - just restrictions in types of food for periods of time). Now, I'm not nor planning to convert to that religion, I'm just way too fascinated with the periods of fasting thing.
But for my mom for now I will try Wildflowers suggestions, and take any more that are given.
Judicious fasting helps regulate insulin. Too much insulin output=nothing good.
There's an old book by the doctors Heller called Healthy for Life. It outlines a method of regulating insulin that doesn't require unsustainable restriction. Anything you can do to keep insulin output low and regular will help. (Gentle exercise, stress reduction measures, fresh air, and sunlight are always helpful, as well.)
The timing is interesting (from Wikipedia):
U.S. patent protection was scheduled to expire in June 2011. However, Pfizer made an agreement with Ranbaxy Laboratories that delayed the generic launch in the U.S. until November 30, 2011.
So now that it's a generic (and much cheaper), it's being flagged as having more risks. I wonder if we're going to see new (much more expensive) drugs introduced shortly that are "safer"?
Good point, Creaker. I think the risks have been known all along but ignored or not reported. Baycol was yanked from the market in 2001 for causing fatal muscle deterioration, and Crestor is the subject of lawsuits for similar reasons.
ApatheticNoMore
3-2-12, 6:22pm
Only the warnings aren't just going on Lipitor, they are going on a whole bunch of cholesterol lowering drugs. I dont' know how many of these are still under patent.
The products include: Lipitor (atorvastatin), Lescol (fluvastatin), Mevacor (lovastatin), Altoprev (lovastatin extended-release), Livalo (pitavastatin), Pravachol (pravastatin), Crestor (rosuvastatin), and Zocor (simvastatin). Combination products include: Advicor (lovastatin/niacin extended-release), Simcor (simvastatin/niacin extended-release), and Vytorin (simvastatin/ezetimibe).
"Lipitor, which became available late last year in generic form as atorvastatin, is the world's all-time biggest selling prescription medicine with cumulative sales in excess of $130 billion. As a class, statins have helped enrich the world's largest drugmakers, but most of the major brands are now prescribed as far cheaper generic medicines."
My dad takes Lipitor and there are some definite memory related side effects. He's very stubborn though, and after two open heart surgeries, a pacemaker and daily Coumadin, he's still eating whatever he wants and watching tv all day. He won't change his ways, or even drink more water (which could help his brain) no matter how much my mom and I suggest it. So, whatever happens, happens. So far there's been a procedure or surgery or drug for whatever health problems he's had so he just thinks it can all be magically fixed.
A truly grumpy old man.
One of my favorite blogs currently addresses just this issue:http://www.fathead-movie.com/
Thanks for the tips Wildflower. I will maybe get my mom some fish oil (dont' take it myself because I eat lots of fish), and tell her to avoid bad carbs (yesterday I shared some lemon tart, but I'll stop, it's not like I eat that that often myself, no more of that). I actually think at this point there may be more evidence showing fish oil reducing heart attack risk than statins.
The problem with most strict diets is I personally am very poor at compliance. I just can't psychologically. But I certainly agree with eating real foods. And for some reason I have an odd fascination with eastern Orthodox style fasting lately (periods of vegetarianism etc. - not true fasting as in no food - just restrictions in types of food for periods of time). Now, I'm not nor planning to convert to that religion, I'm just way too fascinated with the periods of fasting thing.
But for my mom for now I will try Wildflowers suggestions, and take any more that are given.
Tell your Mom to eat some oatmeal everyday which is very helpful in bringing down cholesterol levels. And if she doesn't want to eat it everyday she can do what my DH is doing which is eating Cheerios too. He alternates oatmeal and Cheerios. Also he cut out all potato chips, doritos, crackers, etc. He also cut out ice cream. I didn't eat these things to begin with - chocolate is my thing, but I have managed to cut down to just eating a small amount one day a week. Just wanted to share a few more helpful hints to help your Mom out. :) Really just eating 3 nutritious meals a day and cutting out all the sweets and junky type foods may be enough for her to get her levels much lower. And don't forget the fish oil!
Carb-heavy foods will send your triglyceride count (the only number I would pay attention to, personally) skyward.
Carb-heavy foods will send your triglyceride count (the only number I would pay attention to, personally) skyward.
Complex carbs in a limited amount are ok. We eat whole wheat bread, potatoes, rice, whole wheat pasta, cereal, oatmeal, veggies, fruits in small portions daily along with small amounts of protein. Each of our 3 meals contains a complex carb and protein. We do not snack. Got over that need rather quickly when we cut out the crap. Just not that hungry anymore I think due to having the sugar and junk food out of our diet and the complex carb/protein combo keeps our blood sugar stable.
Simply cutting calories will get triglycerides down. And cutting the simple sugars out of the diet will bring them down really quickly - soda, cake, cookies, ice cream, candy, donuts,crackers, chips, etc. Of course, eliminating these also eliminates lots of calories. Losing weight, however you do it, will bring down triglycerides. BTDT.
I wouldn't take a statin under any circumstances. I have read repeatedly that there is only a tiny cohort of people--middle-aged men with a history of heart attack--who may be helped by these profitable medications. May being the operative word. Ask your pusher, er doctor to provide studies showing increased life expectancy for women taking Lipitor. Then find a doctor who isn't in thrall to Pharma for expensive junkets to faraway resorts.
The statistics you quote are right on - Lipitor has proven effective *only* in men over 35 who've already had a heart attack. No one knows if they're of any use for women, although they do know that women are far more inclined to get side effects, such as muscle loss.
Thanks for the tips Wildflower. I will maybe get my mom some fish oil (dont' take it myself because I eat lots of fish), and tell her to avoid bad carbs (yesterday I shared some lemon tart, but I'll stop, it's not like I eat that that often myself, no more of that). I actually think at this point there may be more evidence showing fish oil reducing heart attack risk than statins.
The problem with most strict diets is I personally am very poor at compliance. I just can't psychologically. But I certainly agree with eating real foods. And for some reason I have an odd fascination with eastern Orthodox style fasting lately (periods of vegetarianism etc. - not true fasting as in no food - just restrictions in types of food for periods of time). Now, I'm not nor planning to convert to that religion, I'm just way too fascinated with the periods of fasting thing.
But for my mom for now I will try Wildflowers suggestions, and take any more that are given.
Something that helped me immensely was avoiding all foods that contained transfats or hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils, which means most processed, convenience, and fast foods. IMO, they are the culprits in arteriosclerotic disease, not "high" cholesterol, which is an arbitrary number some drug company came up with in the first place.
One of the purposes of cholesterol is to patch weak areas of the veins and arteries. If too much of this patching appears to be going on, I'd say look for the cause rather than take away the cure!
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