View Full Version : How would you advise my son? Or how would you advise me? ;)
Some of you know that my youngest son has been accepted into the college he really wanted. And into the music program as he wanted. However he has had 2 of his big dreams collide and I don't really know how to advise him.
He has been saying for the last 2 years that he wanted to go to Alma for their music program and he wanted to run cross country for them. The problem is that the marching band & the cross country practices are at the same time. And they both have games/meets on Saturdays.
He received a renewable $1000 music scholarship. Usually, in order to keep the scholarship he needs to do marching band & concert band. The music director said that he "could" do 2 jazz bands & the concert band and still keep his scholarship.
The music director also said that he usually tells music majors that they should go into music education instead of performance because well.... music performance majors don't have as many options. And the lifestyle of a professional musician is tough.
SO - as a music education major marching band would be much more useful to DS's life than running XC.
DH and I disagree. He thinks DS should do marching band. I think he's a freshman and he has the option of 2 jazz bands instead so he should do XC this year and see how it goes. He may not even like running at the college level. And then he would not always wonder about it.
I also think he would enjoy marching in an excellent marching band. But that has not been his dream. He does not have to declare a major until the end of his sophomore year.
I also don't think DS has any interest in being a teacher but apparently those are the 2 options. I guess one of the other things we need to think about is what music career options are really out there.
OK, so now I've rambled on and on.:confused: What are your thoughts?
XC could be useful if he was willing to consider getting certified to coach it.
Music education vs music performance strike me as vastly different majors. I feel comfortable saying this because I was a music major and my step brother was a music education major. We both took courses in music theory, music history, and lots of lessons, in addition to playing in ensembles/bands and giving recitals. My step brother also took the various courses in education and music education specifically. I had a second major in linguistics and so took courses completely unrelated to music. My step brother went on to become a middle school & high school music teacher and band director. He loves his job. I went on to work on the for-profit side of education for 16 years, got an MBA, and now teach management at the college level and work for a start up in the online media industry. I have loved my career path and I love what I do now. My point is that sometimes you end up pursuing a career that is directly related to what you majored in, sometimes you don't. :)
I think college students get the most out of college when they study something they are passionate about. So I would advise your son to look at the coursework for each major in great detail and make a decision based on the coursework, not on what he thinks he might do upon graduation. A lot can change in 4 years! I also think that he should take the music director up on the option to participate in 2 jazz bands and run cross country. Athletics at the college level are a big step up from the high school level. Your son will likely learn a lot from participating during his first year. He can then make a more well-informed decision as to how we wants to use his time going forward. He may decide that being part of the cross country team is what helps him to stay grounded and de-stress; he may decide that it's not what he imagined and that he would rather spend his time as a member of the marching band.
Regardless, it sounds like he has a ton of great opportunities available to him and I hope he takes full advantage of as many of those great opportunities that he can!
domestic goddess
3-5-12, 12:28pm
I agree with cdttmm. Your son may well decide that being a music educator or a performer isn't for him, and he may as well exercise as many options as he can while he has easier opportunities. Later on it will be more difficult to find the flexibility in scheduling that he may need. And he may find that he gets enough exercise (or nearly enough) in a marching band and he may not wish to pursue x country as a competitive sport.
Also, the fantasy of a certain career and the reality of it often collide. While it may seem exciting and romantic to be a professional musician and travel the world, the truth is that not everyone gets to do that, or likes it as much as they think they will. As an educator, well, there are to students to be dealt with. He might end up deciding that making music will be something he does for himself (I hope he never gives that up) instead of having to do it the way someone else (conductor, recording label, public, etc.)wants it done.
Your son, like all of us, should follow his heart.
Running at the college level was awesome for my boys. An opportunity to play in two ensembles PLUS to run is excellent. I sure hope he gives both activities a try.
You just don't know what direction a kid this age might take. My youngest was in three universities and two different majors, but he ran (first DI then DIII) while in school. (xc and track) He majored in something called "music industry" but discovered something else, but related, that touched his passion at the end of his four years and now he's finishing law school.....going to be working for a large firm, not something I would ever have envisioned for this kid. AND he's still running (with a club) even in some college meets (was just at the Armory for Columbia last weekend). For him, anyway, both music and running are very important but neither is the way that he'll be making his living.
Eighteen is TOO YOUNG to make final decisions about career stuff....I hope your boy can keep lots of options open for himself. What a fortunate kid!
I know $1,000 is not a small amount of money, but I wonder if the scholarship issue is putting too much pressure on him. He could easily earn that at a part time job in the summer or mowing lawns. If he didn't have the scholarship could he participate in a music opportunity and also the XC? DH's cousin recently graduated college after running at the college level (XC and whatever the shorter track stuff is) and it took A LOT of time...she was committed to it and gave up a lot of outside social activities to pursue it at a high level. I am not a musician or athlete, but two jazz bands, concert band and cross country strikes me as a huge workload in itself, plus college coursework!
I don't think he has to decide on the major right now. I am sure he can work on getting core classes in this first year and get a feel for both of the programs, and also where he thinks music fits into his life. Possibly he could get some experience in the music education field over the next couple of years? Maybe he could do a performance major and then go back and get a masters in Music Education, or even as someone else said, he may find athletic education to be a career and the music may be more of a hobby in his life. He may get a year into it and decide on something completely different he became exposed to at college. All kinds of options really...it sounds like he is just at the beginning of his journey.
I agree with the idea of not choosing a major yet (emphasis at least), going with the two jazz ensembles and giving a season of XC a go so that he can see what he wants to do. it may also be likely that he could get student-athlete scholarships through there, in addition to his music scholarships.
Marching band is seriously hard-core. I had friends who were in the PSU Blue Band and it was so intense for them. It was as intense -- if not more so -- than being on the varsity athletic teams. While they loved it, marching band can easily become the whole life of the individual once they are there. Most of the Blue Banders were quite funny in that those who were athletic in high school, got a bit dumpy because all they did was band, and those who were dumpy band kids got quite fit because Blue Band is marching hard core, and they weren't use to having to practice the hops, jogs, specific marches, and other insanities that that band does. So, everyone evened out in size/shape (which is probably why they all look basically the same), and practices started at 6 to 9 am Mon-FRi, and then there was the practice from 5 pm until 8 pm most evenings. 6 hours a day of marching and instruments - and then engagements on top of that. It's a performance schedule from Hell.
My DH, btw, says that he lived this particular hell -- in high school though.
In order to get into the music camp he wanted in the summer, his music teacher had to do some paperwork. DH preferred jazz band and wanted to do jazz and concert, but the teacher wanted him in marching band. but, marching band ran over both 1. some of his course work (because it was a class in addition to being an activity) and would send him into summer school, and 2. his cross country.
ultimately, DH opted to do Jazz and concert, forgo that music camp, btu then competed to get into that music camp (the only way to get in if your teacher didn't get you in). He won the competition to get in, and was able to go.
His recommendation: RUN.
The reason is this --
1. the kid is 18, and it's more options. after a season of cross country, he'll know whether he wants to continue, and he may even get a scholarship for it;
2. if he prefers jazz and other performance bands to marching band (which was the bane of DH's existence and he hated it with a burning fury), then he should play what he likes -- as he'll be more likely to continue with whatever it is;
3. if he discovers that he no longer wants to run, then he can switch to the other path;
4. it is likely that he has more talent in music than in running, and that in several years (15-20), he may still be running, but not at this level -- and with this, might be able to develop his talents and skills and do quite well during this time in his life when he is still young and highly adaptable. And, as others have said, it could be an alternate career path for him.
Finally, DH weighs in about parental advice: try not to give it.
Your son is still at an age where he is desperate for your approval and to make you proud. The reason DH did not follow his own heart in university and after was because his parents shamed the crap out of him for any decision for which they do not agree (i.e., growing out his hair is one example). When DH asserted he wanted to go into film, you would have thought he asserted he wanted to go into mass genocide as a career.
Being desperate to please his folks, he got a degree that he uses -- but isn't what he wanted. And, ultimately, he had to work a good 10 years to shake off his parent's 'stuff' in order to move forward.
I am, likewise, in the same position. I knew that I didn't want to go to law school. I knew in the first semester that I didn't want to continue. If i'd bailed then -- I would be debt free right now. I would be doing what I"m doing, too. But my desire to please my parents and make them proud and gain their approval was HUGE.
never, ever underestimate your power.
SO, my advice at this point would be to listen to him. When he wants to discuss it with you, you can simply let him "unpack" what he is thinking and feeling about each option, and point out that whatever decision he makes will be the right and good and lead to his happiness and success. There's no "one right path" for him, and he may meander a bit, and that's ok. That's what this time is for, really.
Try not to advise him either way. Just let him figure it out, and listen to him and ask questions as he does. That's it.
Give him your approval of how thoughtful he is in this process. And approve of his decision even if you disagree.
Because this is not about these programs, really. Ultimately, if he's asking you, he wants your approval. Let him decide, then approve.
DD is almost finished with her masters in horn performance. She was in music education for her first year in college, and when she really thought about it, she didn't want to teach music and have to have so much of her time taken up with conducting marching band.......for not very much money. Its a very time-consuming/low pay career. Then again.......she will probably always have to struggle to find jobs in music performance.
I was a music major my first year of college (back in the stone age), and music majors have 18 hour days and there's no time for anything else. Your son may realize this sooner, rather than later. But if he can get by his first year, being a music major and still fitting in cross-country, then I say go for it. It will be a year that will help him decide what he really wants to do. Good luck to him.
It seems to me there are many more ways to be involved in competitive (or non-competitive) running outside the college framework than there are organized musical groups. What are the specific benefits of running for the team rather than finding a way to run on his own?
lhamo
the benefits of a team at this age is learning proper technique, training techniques, development of certain skills around racing, and the opportunity to compete at high levels, and perhaps develop beyond his current capacity.
many of the runners in DH's university team went on to try out for the olympics or other international/professional runs, and several became triathletes as well (one currently a professional triathlete who it turning 40 this year).
the reality is that doing on your on vs doing it with a coach IS different, assuming the coach is any good, s/he can develop certain skills and talents and provide opportunities that likely won't exist if he gives it up now for something more casual.
but this depends entirely upon the kid, too.
Wrt Band, Marching band and jazz bands often fit different personalities.I was in the University of Wisconsin Marching band and geot out as quickly as I could. I wasn't the right person fro the all-consuming life of a college marching band member.
I was a vocal performance major at Eastern Michigan University, then double-majored with anthropology, and ultimately did my M.A. in Social Anthropology elsewhere. I had ZERO interest in music ed, and although I ended up teaching English as a Foreign Language for many years, I never yearned for life as a music techer. No particular advice here except to not put too much pressure on your son, and for you not to worry if he changes his mind before, during, and after college. Congratulations on raising such a nice kid, though...Alma's a great college, too! :)
IT DOES NOT MATTER.
Ok, there, I said it.
Something that is supposidly better for his "career" well, one little thing like that is not going to heavily influence his career one way or the other. Honest. Things much beyond your control will probably do more either way than that.
I would go with whatever makes the most sense given everything you know right now and at this time.
Go with what he wants to do, right now, right here.
He may end up changing his major or career anyway, or not. Either way, take advantage now of the opportunities cause you won't get them again.
Music education vs music performance strike me as vastly different majors. I feel comfortable saying this because I was a music major and my step brother was a music education major. We both took courses in music theory, music history, and lots of lessons, in addition to playing in ensembles/bands and giving recitals. My step brother also took the various courses in education and music education specifically. I had a second major in linguistics and so took courses completely unrelated to music. My step brother went on to become a middle school & high school music teacher and band director. He loves his job. I went on to work on the for-profit side of education for 16 years, got an MBA, and now teach management at the college level and work for a start up in the online media industry. I have loved my career path and I love what I do now. My point is that sometimes you end up pursuing a career that is directly related to what you majored in, sometimes you don't. :)
I think college students get the most out of college when they study something they are passionate about. So I would advise your son to look at the coursework for each major in great detail and make a decision based on the coursework, not on what he thinks he might do upon graduation. A lot can change in 4 years! I also think that he should take the music director up on the option to participate in 2 jazz bands and run cross country. Athletics at the college level are a big step up from the high school level. Your son will likely learn a lot from participating during his first year. He can then make a more well-informed decision as to how we wants to use his time going forward. He may decide that being part of the cross country team is what helps him to stay grounded and de-stress; he may decide that it's not what he imagined and that he would rather spend his time as a member of the marching band.
Regardless, it sounds like he has a ton of great opportunities available to him and I hope he takes full advantage of as many of those great opportunities that he can!
I agree with everything you said, cdttmm. I think that what he REALLY WANTS right now is just to be filled up with music. To live and breathe it. The problem is that there really is a lot of pressure on the kids to pick a career path and he lets it get to him.
Your son, like all of us, should follow his heart.
Very succinct, JaneV! And I agree :)
I know $1,000 is not a small amount of money, but I wonder if the scholarship issue is putting too much pressure on him. He could easily earn that at a part time job in the summer or mowing lawns. If he didn't have the scholarship could he participate in a music opportunity and also the XC? DH's cousin recently graduated college after running at the college level (XC and whatever the shorter track stuff is) and it took A LOT of time...she was committed to it and gave up a lot of outside social activities to pursue it at a high level. I am not a musician or athlete, but two jazz bands, concert band and cross country strikes me as a huge workload in itself, plus college coursework!
I don't think he has to decide on the major right now. I am sure he can work on getting core classes in this first year and get a feel for both of the programs, and also where he thinks music fits into his life. Possibly he could get some experience in the music education field over the next couple of years? Maybe he could do a performance major and then go back and get a masters in Music Education, or even as someone else said, he may find athletic education to be a career and the music may be more of a hobby in his life. He may get a year into it and decide on something completely different he became exposed to at college. All kinds of options really...it sounds like he is just at the beginning of his journey.
I mentioned this very thing about the $1000 scholarship but I will have to bring it up again. It is a lot of money but in the big scheme of things it isn't. I think once we find out the results from filling out the FAFSA for 2 boys we will have a better feel for the total expenses and that will help to make the decision.
Thanks, Zoebird! There are no athletic scholarships because this is not an NCAA school. (I think that's why. I always get confused about that lol)
I had been teasing him that I wanted to see him in a kilt because the band is the Marching Kilties & everyone wears kilts. And there is even a thing where if someone has a blue ribbon on their sock it means they are a "True Scot" and are wearing nothing under the kilt. But I made sure to tell him the other day that I wasn't trying to convince him to do the marching band. I would be fine with whatever he chose. I was just picking on him because he didn't like the idea of wearing a kilt. And I think it would be amusing to see my Korean/American boy in a Scottish kilt.
But I will try to be sure and just listen more.
DD is almost finished with her masters in horn performance. She was in music education for her first year in college, and when she really thought about it, she didn't want to teach music and have to have so much of her time taken up with conducting marching band.......for not very much money. Its a very time-consuming/low pay career. Then again.......she will probably always have to struggle to find jobs in music performance.
I was a music major my first year of college (back in the stone age), and music majors have 18 hour days and there's no time for anything else. Your son may realize this sooner, rather than later. But if he can get by his first year, being a music major and still fitting in cross-country, then I say go for it. It will be a year that will help him decide what he really wants to do. Good luck to him.
Thanks CathyA (I'm also a Cathy, btw) for your comments. We live in Michigan where programs & teachers are being cut everywhere so I have my doubts as to whether there would even be jobs for music teachers. But then again, 4-5 years is a long time and things could be totally different by then.
It seems to me there are many more ways to be involved in competitive (or non-competitive) running outside the college framework than there are organized musical groups. What are the specific benefits of running for the team rather than finding a way to run on his own?
lhamo
We have suggested this to him already. DS shot the idea down. But then again, he doesn't really know yet what is available to him outside of the team. He is still so fixated on the idea of the team so he is not yet open to other ideas, so we'll have to let the idea germinate a bit.
Thank you ALL so much! I knew I would get helpful & thoughtful responses from you all.
Tyler is really not interested in becoming a music teacher at this time. He gets frustrated with just the other 2 players in his section. (it's a small school) I cannot picture him running an entire room full of students lol But, of course he still has a lot of maturing to do. And I'm sure he will change his mind many, many times before he decides on a career. I don't have a problem with that.
He has been a very committed runner these last 2 years and I think he just wants to test himself at the college level. I think that is a valid reason for running if he can fit it in. And I don't know how it is a the college level, but at the high school level XC is a really wonderful sport. The atmosphere has been pretty nurturing to him. There is a real sportsmanship about it. While the competition is fierce it is friendly as well.
I want him to follow his passion. And to become self-supporting :D DH says "do you really think he can have a career as a musician?" in a very skeptical tone. I say I don't know but there are a lot of different music career options that we don't know about right now. And as long as he comes out of school without a lot of debt, he can try anything he wants. I just don't want him to regret not trying.
Your son, like all of us, should follow his heart.
+3.
And as far as a musician supporting him/herself goes.....if one knows how to live frugally, it's not hard at all.....
I KNOW you have taught him that. :)
I know many people with music preformance degrees (of varying kinds) who make a living within the music industry in some way, shape or form. One is a music archivist for a major library. another is a music producer and runs a small recording studio. another does small composition projects for a company that specializes in making corporate films (that is, films that corporations want made). he's their in house music guy. he also makes several for local commercials, short films etc etc etc. on the side. Another runs a music conservatory (but doesn't teach any classes), and still another manages a theater and brings in musical and theatrical acts.
my BIL has a degree in music performance, went into retail selling instruments and producing records on the side, and is now getting his degree in musical technology. he got a job at a university to run their concert hall's sound design and other technical aspects as well as the logistics of bringing in acts, sound checking, etc etc and what not -- and now he's moving into teaching musical technology as science credits for music majors. He also still plays several instruments and is also a studio musician in the local scene (and he still records/produces).
he also has helped several local bars, etc, design their music technology and sound design so that bands sound good there -- which brings in more clients to hear good music. :)
he makes a good living.
my husband's aunt also has a musical performance degree, and then she got her masters in music therapy. she's been a music therapist for over 25 years now, and helped design several local programs for children's hospitals and similar, and she directs many of those programs (with other therapists running the actual day-to-day therapy sessions). She is self supporting for herself and her three children -- so she's not doing badly at all.
Why are we so narrow? why think that a degree means one thing: musical performance means that you're going to try and be a performer!?
NO! it means you're getting a degree that doesn't involve going into high school music education (for which there aren't many jobs these days anyway). And from there, you can go any number of places.
One of my husband's coworkers is in a small conservatory performance group (which earns a small amount of money) but he works a day job in business analysis. He finds that working the day job is quite relaxing and easy, provides a iifestyle he likes, and he still gets to perform a full season and many gigs without the pressure of being in a larger orchestra (he did that route, and played for the philadelphia one).
UPDATE!!!!
Hallelujah Tyler has finally made a decision! He opted to run & do the 2 jazz bands. Really, I think he knew all along that this is what he wanted to do but did not want to disappoint anyone. He notified the coach who replied "You just really made my day." He sent a nice email to the music director thanking him for the audition & scholarship & expressing his intentions & then mentioned that he was looking forward to studying with him. Got a confirmation note back from the music director. Big relief all around here.
However, yesterday we got another email from the music director. He just re read DS's file and saw that he intends to be a music major and that as a music major he must do marching band. It is very important and not having it will negatively impact his opportunities to get a job and leave a big gap in his letter of recommendation. When you teach you will need to be able to run a marching band yada yada...
Tyler was out most of the day yesterday and has not seen this note yet. So now I will have to coach Tyler on how to respond to this. He really does not want to be a band teacher. There must be a compromise here somewhere that will satisfy everyone.
Thats great - glad he made a decision he is happy with. There is a lot of time between freshman year and senior year, hopefully the music department will work with him.
Another music career - DH started out in recording engineering (studio work) before he got sucked into the glass world. During college he played guitar 8 hours a day beyond classwork. I don't think he would of had time to run or any other sport during college.
I started with a vocal major but ended up with vocal cord damage and switched to recreation, completely got out of the music department.
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