View Full Version : What would you tell them to do?
I have two friends that have been married for 7 years. First marriage for both and no plans to have kids. Both are approx. 30, both currently in the coast guard with 10or so years in and plans to stay in for at least 10 more years. They are both stationed in SoCal.
Recently the hubby found out he had an almost 9 year old daughter from a woman he knew when he was stationed in New York - this before he even met his current wife. That woman passed away and the State of New York contacted him about custody rights because he was named on the child's birth certificate. He had a DNA test and it is his child. Now they have to decide what to do.
He wants to have full custody of the child and have her come to Calif to live with them. She wants the DH to give the grandparents temporary guardianship over the child so she can remain with people she knows, in her school and with friends and then visit her as often as possible (try to get transferred nearby eventually), and her visit them, to get to know each other before making such a huge decision. Neither wants to get out of the CG, both are gone alot on long deployments and neither could really care for a child even if they wanted to. But the DH REALLY wants the child to live with them and is very insistent. DW thinks it's selfish of him to want the child to move 3000 miles away to live with complete strangers. The hubby thinks the wife is selfish because she doesn't want to raise a child. He has even suggested that she get out of the CG to be a SAHP to the child - yet he wouldn't do the same himself even if she wanted to be the sole breadwinner and raise a child (she doesn't want either).
I personally sidce with the DW on this but what would you advise?
I would ask the child what she wants to do.
I would ask the child what she wants to do.
I believe she wants to stay in NY with her grandparents but the grandparents don't really want custody themselves (health issues and older - 70's I believe) but will do it if there is no other choice other than foster care. But both are retired so would be there all the time and she's still be able to retain her life uninterupted. The father also doesn't seem to be open to that idea. Now that h knows he has a child out there in the world -especially one who's only option is to live with the grandparents -he want to protect and provide for her as well as get to know her. But his wife may leave him if he follows thru with it and he seems to be somewhat unrealistic to the fact that, given his current job and lifestyle - he couldn't do it alone, nor does he want to. The problem is he expects his wife to get out of the CG and raise the chilld while he stays in the CG.
From the way you describe it, it does not sound to me like the DW is someone that "doesn't want to raise a child" --- it sounds more like she has memories of how fragile it is to be a pre-teen girl.
When I was 10 my friends were becoming the center of my universe..... in a good way.
Wow. What a story. How sad to lose your mother so young.
Edit to Add: I just saw the part where grandparents were infirm...... hmmm.
Question -- Why does husband get to stay in CG and she has to leave CG to be SAHP? What is his reasoning?
I don't think the young girl is in a position right now to make that kind of huge decision. Even for mature people, isn't there some kind of "rule" that you should never make any big decisions for a year after you've suffered a major loss? Asking a young girl to make that kind of choice seems like it would put a huge burden on her.
I think it should be approached from what is truly in the best interest of all involved. From the girl's POV, IMO she should maintain whatever stable ties she already has, like friends, grandparents etc. The advantage of staying with her grandparents at least temporarily is that it gives EVERYONE a chance to adjust. The girl isn't the only one experiencing a shocking change--the dad needs time to digest the implications and what it means to be a dad. His wife needs time to digest it as well, get to know her stepdaughter and adjust to the reality of her own world being thrown a curve ball.
Just from my personal experience, my oldest brother is my cousin blood-wise. He lost his parents (my aunt and uncle) when he was only 6. My grandparents made the decision that he should live with my family. I was 1 at the time. My mother was not at all prepared to take him in, but she was sort of forced into it. I have to tell you that the consequences of that have lasted a lifetime. She of course tried to be a good parent to him, but there were undercurrents that my brother picked up on and he had a very, very difficult childhood as a result.
I mentioned in another post how I'm 60 and I'm still pining the loss of my father who died an alcoholic (one more reason my brother should never have been placed in our home). Well, he's 65, and he still has scars of feeling unloved and unwanted.
If I were a family counselor, which I certainly am not, I would advise everyone to take a chill pill for a year and take very slow steps to adapting and making decisions that are in the best interest of the child.
From the way you describe it, it does not sound to me like the DW is someone that "doesn't want to raise a child" --- it sounds more like she has memories of how fragile it is to be a pre-teen girl.
When I was 10 my friends were becoming the center of my universe..... in a good way.
Wow. What a story. How sad to lose your mother so young.
Edit to Add: I just saw the part where grandparents were infirm...... hmmm.
Question -- Why does husband get to stay in CG and she has to leave CG to be SAHP? What is his reasoning?
No, the DW DEFINETLY doesn't want to raise a child - her own or anyone elses. I'm the same way so understand where she is coming from. She's young, has ambitions of her own, and is very non-traditional. I know both of they people very well - would say I am best friends with both of them - and it's sad to see them in so much turmoil. And the Grandparents aren't infirm, just older with health issues.
flowerseverywhere
3-15-12, 7:34pm
I took my younger orphaned sister in as a newly married when she was 12. We did the best we could and she is my best friend. But I had a husband and In laws that were supportive and helpful and they left money that supported her through college with money for a small wedding even. This sounds like a disaster for the marraige and child if the wife is not on board.
Don't they have access to an impartial counselor? They really need it.
No, the DW DEFINETLY doesn't want to raise a child - her own or anyone elses. I'm the same way so understand where she is coming from. She's young, has ambitions of her own, and is very non-traditional. I know both of they people very well - would say I am best friends with both of them - and it's sad to see them in so much turmoil. And the Grandparents aren't infirm, just older with health issues.
Holy smokes. What a situation.
If husband knows that, why would he suggest her for SAHP?
To me, it sounds as though the DW is the only one who can see the issues realistically. The DH or father sounds like a really confused individual who has no idea of what is involved with parenting a child or what the word 'partnership' means in a marriage. Can you imagine if they take the child and then split up? What other consequences to consider?
If his only involvement to date is providing a sperm, what is he prepared to do to learn to parent a child of which he was not aware? It sounds as though he is simply trying to dump the child on the DW who does not want that role - recipe for disaster!
Sad story and your thoughts may help them sort out what is right for the marriage and the child.
Holy smokes. What a situation.
If husband knows that, why would he suggest her for SAHP?
I think it's sort of traditional thinking that a woman is better suited to raise a child - especially a female child - than a man. The DW doesn't believe that herself and feels that the hubby should be the one - as the child's parent - to get out of the service and raise the child. That doesn't mean he can't work, just that he has a regular job where he is home everyday and weekends to be with the child and not off at sea 9 months out of the year. And while the DW really doesn't want to be the primary breadwinner (or even be a parent), she would do it if needed to support her hubby even though, IMHO, I think in the end it would break them apart - is sort of already as she has talked about the possibility of just leaving the marriage. But still, I think it would be best for them both to stay in the service and try to get transferred as near to the girl as possible. Let the GP have temp custody for now and the hubby can pay child support to the GP for the child;s care until they work things out. For some reason he just doesn't wan to do this. but I agree with the others who said that everyone needs to wait before making a decsiion. But they have to go to court soon to determine everything.
Miss Cellane
3-15-12, 7:52pm
I think that the child's interests take priority here--she's the one who lost her mother. Is it really wise to send her to live with total strangers on the other side of the country?
On the other hand, if the grandparents are in their 70s, realistically, they may not be able to care for her for more than a few years. The girl may have to live with her father and step-mother within the next few years, or enter the foster system.
My suggestion would be to leave the girl with her grandparents for a year. She has a support system there. But the plan should be to have her eventually move to live with her father and step-mother. There would be several visits back and forth so that everyone involved can get to know each other. And so that the father can find out what other dual-CG-career parents do about deployments and long assignments away from home. It may be that the father has to hire a nanny full-time to take care of his daughter.
i do think it is not fair to expect the step-mother to quit her job and career to be a SAHP for a child that is not hers. If she wants to do so, fine. But if she doesn't, it is the father's responsibility to work this out, not the step-mother's.
Frankly, the step-mother's plan, as outlined in the OP, sounds perfectly reasonable and the kindest thing for the little girl. I'd just set a time limit on her stay with the grandparents, given their age and infirmity. But I'd plan on giving her lots of visits with them, once she was living with her father.
That poor little girl. This must be so scary for her.
I think Miss Cellane's approach is very sensible.
I think the most humane thing is allowing the child to stay in her known world. If her grandparents are willing to take her, then the family should give up custody.
During this time -- until they may be unable to care for her -- her father and his wife can get to know her, visit her, and invite her out to visit them in their home. If, at any time, her grandparents can't care for her, then she'll be able to have an option to go to, rather than entering the system.
It's what is best for the child (barring, of course, that the grandparents are unable to care for her, unwilling, or abusive/neglectful in some capacity).
goldensmom
3-15-12, 8:13pm
What a situation!! I can see both sides of both sides and even though your OP asked for advice on who to support or what to do, personally, as long as I was not directly in the fray, I’d stay out of it because it appears that there is no winner here.
Yes, plenty of visits with her new father and stepmother within the 'safety' of always returning to the known, her grandparents. But they will have to consider the future as the grandparents are older. Your friends don't know the girl and the girl doesn't know them. Sometimes, things work themselves out as all concerned get to know each other. Once they do, then the road ahead might be clearer.
Did the mother not have family? I'm wondering if they are considering the mother's family, i.e. sisters, brothers, parents. Maybe there is someone there who knew the girl and would be a better choice. OK, I'm guessing the grandparents are her family. Never mind.
Poor little girl. No family who wants her. I would even venture to look to good family friends who might give the little girl a home. I'm wondering if your friend isn't thinking of this and wanting to just give the little girl a home.
What a situation!! I can see both sides of both sides and even though your OP asked for advice on who to support or what to do, personally, as long as I was not directly in the fray, I’d stay out of it because it appears that there is no winner here.
Well I'm not really involved in any way except to lend my support and ideas if asked. But the DW is asking my advice on what she should do since the hubby seems to have firmly made up his mind about having his daughter move in with them. I posted this because I disagree with his position, as does his DW, but maybe I am wrong to do so. Maybe his point of view is just as right as the DWs and neither her or I can see it clearly. I thought that other's would have a greater insight then childless old me. His family - parents and 3 sisters (he is the only son) who lived scattered all over the country - completely support his view as this child is their blood relative and grandchild too. Her family, who live in SoCal also, have mixed feelings about it all though. Obviously it effects not only the child, but the couple, both sets of grandparents and all the extended family as well. But from what I've read of the posts so far, it seems most people agree with me and the DW to leave the child with her grandparents for now rather than uproot her as the father wants to do. It's heartening to know I really am not crazy after all :-)!
I think the solution of the child remaining with the grandparents for a year is a good one. I would caution that the husband and wife would probably be better off taking the word "selfish" off the table. I don't think anyone in the situation is being selfish, they are just reacting to a huge life change in different ways. People can react strangely in situations like that and name calling isn't helpful.
I hope the couple and the girl can work everything out!
goldensmom
3-15-12, 8:42pm
It's a tough one Spartana. If it were my friend, I would probably support her whether I agreed with her or not, maybe pointing out some things she can't see because she is so involved but I would support her. I recently had a situation where I was thinking one thing because I was 'in the middle of it', my very good friend saw it from another perspective and told me so but she supported me whatever I decided. Go with what you feel is right, it probably is.
It's a tough one Spartana. If it were my friend, I would probably support her whether I agreed with her or not, maybe pointing out some things she can't see because she is so involved but I would support her. I recently had a situation where I was thinking one thing because I was 'in the middle of it', my very good friend saw it from another perspective and told me so but she supported me whatever I decided. Go with what you feel is right, it probably is.
It's funny because I have actually been very close friends with the guy for many years, but only met (and became close friends with) his wife after they got married. But he hasn't really asked my opinion on the subject - although mouthy old me has given it to him :-) - but I see and understand both their sides but still feel he should put the child's welfare first - and even his wife's welfare first - before his own. The problem is that he feels he is putting the child' welfare first by taking custody of her and bringing her to live with them. He feels he is providing her with a family, stability, protection, etc... He feels that it is his duty as a father to provide those for her. Not sure what he'll plan if his DW isn't onboard with this (she really isn't) and chooses to leave. Probably marriage counseling time - and soon before the court hearing.
The man should start making plans to leave the Coast Guard. This is what it means to be a father.
The woman should start getting used to the fact she is a step mother. This is what it means to be married to a father.
I know this isn't what either of them planned on, but oh well.
I'd suggest a family therapist ASAP! There are waaay more issues up than custody. This is intense, emotional terrain, and many unknowns. They deserve to have some outside facilitation of the conversations, so they can protect their marriage & livlihoods, as well as the well being of a child in crisis. And NO immediate decisions. This girl needs to stay in her school till year's end. She just lost her mom.
I would tell her to keep a bag packed, personally. If she is going to leave, it's better to do so before any relationship develops between her and the child, who's clearly had enough loss in her life already.
This is only her problem by proxy, and it seems like the fact that the trajectory of her life has been permanently altered is of no concern to her husband. Quit her career?! Be the mother she never wanted to be?! It's too bad the girl's mother didn't designate an appropriate guardian, as every unmarried parent of a young child should.
Wow. Since I haven't seen this raised yet: I strongly recommend not moving the girl anywhere (else) during a school year. My family moved over the holidays, when I was that age. All the other kids already knew each other, and were in a different place in every single subject, and it was rough going even though school was the only big change.
It doesn't sound like the grandparents are a long-term solution, given her age and theirs, and I'm not sure that the girl would actually benefit much from staying with them an extra year versus settling into a new hopefully-permanent home this summer.
...Oh, and. It's not wrong of the DH to decide he needs to support and raise his child, but suggesting his wife give up her career and way of life to settle down as a single parent (which she effectively would be if he's away 3/4 of the year) to his daughter does not strike me as good decision-making. I am also a 30-ish intentionally-childless woman. My job isn't so completely impossible with children, but in the DW's shoes, I'd be looking for an apartment and a marriage counselor.
Wow. I think the little girl should at least stay with her grandparents through the end of this school year.
The DH deciding for everyone that his wife should be a stay at home parent when she clearly doesn't want to is not a good idea for EVERYONE in this situation. If the wife wanted to stay home, that's one thing, but forcing the issue if she decided to stay in the marriage would just make her very resentful and likely impact upon the girl in a negative way.
Definitely marriage counseling to be sure.
I agree with everyone regarding the DW's situation, to be honest. If anything, he should stay home with the child -- it's not unheard of. One of my dear friends is a single dad to a daughter (since her birth -- they divorced because of the pregnancy, confusing story), and he's a great dad and great parent to a little girl.
My husband is pretty much a SAHD, too. it's awesome sauce.
I recommend it. If that's what's going to happen -- if the grandparents can't care for her for a bit (and there's no one else).
In our will, we have three sets of people who are willing to take Hawk -- and a trust set up as well.
chrisgermany
3-16-12, 4:23am
The couple should try to find a way that the girl could stay with the grandparents for the next year. During that period the couple should offer to support the grandparents for example by paying for a cleaning helper, so that the GP have more time and energy for doing things with the girl. The couple should also be with the girl + GPs as much as possible, during school vacations and long weekends, to get to know each other.
Then a new decision could be taken from year to year. They do not need to fix everything now once and for all.
While at home, the couple should invest some time and $ in coaching or family mediation, to have a better discussion about all the expectations, options and their consequences. Such discussions are often more fruitful if under guidance of an experienced third party.
The father might also think this through: If his wife decides to leave him, would he still be interested to take the girl to SC? If no, why not? And if yes, how would he make it work then? If he finds a way then, why is this way not available with his wife still around?
Best wishes for anybody involved, but most of all for the girl.
Miss Cellane
3-16-12, 8:20am
I know the father's plan has flaws, serious flaws, but at least he is eager and willing to accept this little girl into his life. He isn't thinking through the ramifications of his plan, but he is also not rejecting the girl out of hand. He could turn out to be a terrific father, once he has time to settle down and think the matter through.
I just think some of us (me included) have been pretty down on the dad, when he is the one person who really wants to have this child in his life. And that's a good thing for the girl, in the long run. The dad just has to take a better look at the short term effects of his plans on both his wife and his daughter.
There are dual-career military families who make it work, even when both parents are deployed. It usually means having relatives come and take care of the kids, but it can work out if some serious thought is given.
If I were the woman, there is no way I'd give up my career to raise my stepdaughter. I'm not sure what the state laws are where they live, but if their marriage were to dissolve, I don't believe she would be granted custody. Imagine leaving your career, pension, etc. to raise a child that isn't yours and then if your husband decides to leave, you are left with nothing.
I sympathize with the wife. That's a tough situation. I agree with the others about stability for the child, but honestly, I think it's better to cut the cord and move her out to her new family, if that is what is going to happen anyway. It's not going to get any easier when she's in the throws of puberty. Maybe she can spend some extended time with her grandparents during the summer or over holidays to ease the transition.
That is tough.
I don't think she should have to give up what she has worked so hard for. They had an agreement to marriage and two careers.
He hasn't even visited this daughter yet has he? I would encourage transition. Daughter live with grandparents, dad visit for extended visits and get to know her. And then he make the decision about moving her to CA. If he does there are plenty of nannys he can and should hire if he wants to keep his career but forcing his wife to give up her career shouldn't even be on the table.
I also think the wife should talk to an attorney to head off liability for back child support, just in case.
Thanks for you replies everyone. I appreciate it and kind of makes things clearer in my mind. This is what has been done so far: The mother passed away several months ago and the DA in NY had contacted the hubby via letter saying he was named on the birth certificate as the father and that he would have to begin paying child support as well as back child support for the past 8 years. That money would go to the current guardians, the grandparents. He got a lawyer, got a paternity test and was able to prove that he knew nothing of this child's existence so didn't have to pay back child support. He currently is paying child support to the DA's office and that money gets sent to the grandparents. He also got the child on his military health insurance as the grandparents only have Medicare coverage and the state of NY covered the child on Medicaid after her Mom died. He has also flown out to meet the girl (and the grandparents) so that they have established a bit of a bond and the girl is old enough to understand that he was never told she existed.
So now it's just the upcoming child custody court appearence (which he can do from Calif). He does not want to terminate his parental rights, and he does not want to give the grandparents full custody as he fears that may impact him down the road if he delays having her come live with him now (he would wait until this summer after the school year to do that though). He feels that it would be better to bring her out to live with him this summer so that they can bond, etc... rather than wait a long time. He is especially concerned that, as she gets older, she will be less inclined to accept him as a father. And he's worried that, should she continue to live with the grandparents, that they won't be able to handle a pre-teen (or teenager) as they age. He also feels that that he can do a better job than the grandparents and that he worrys the grandparents might not use the child support money in her best interests. And while there are other relatives - siblings of the mom - they aren't close to this child and live in other states. Plus he just doesn't want anybody else to raise her but himself. He's very firm in that part.
So bottom line is that he won't give up custody, he will move her out to Calif by this summer most likely, he won't get out of the CG, and he has until then to make some kind of care giving arrangements. His logic behind wanting the DW to get out of the CG instead of himself is that he has about 6 years left before he can retire and she needs about 10 more years. He says that his DW can use her military benefits to go to school full time and "help" raise the child while he supports her as well as provides all those military benefits to the family like medical insurance and a pension with medical coverage when he retires. Then when he retires, when the child is approx. 14 - 15 years old, she can go back to work full time and he'll be a stay at home parent or work a civilian job. Of course 6 years from now the DW will be close to 40 and will not be able to go back into the CG - a job she loves - and she also believes that there is a possibility that the DH would end up staying in longer than 6 years - especially with a teenager to pay for - even if she was able to get a good job at that time.
So what they'll end up doing is anyone's guess. I agree with the others who say he should get out of the CG, get a regular job, and be there for his daughter if he plans to have custody of her rather than expect his wife to do that. They both feel that at least one of them should stay in the service for the pay and all the benefits - especially in this economy. Of course if the wife stays in the service then she will be having to transfer around every few years, so like any other military spouse, the hubby & child will have to quit his job to follow her. Something I don't believe her will be willing to do. At this time the wife is really beside herself - guilt mixed with love for the hubby mixed with seeing her future plans (their future plans) vanish over night. She is going to see a military shrink by herself next week and then maybe with the hubby later. He doesn't seem to see the need for it since he feels he's doing the right thing and his mind appears to be made up. I don't know if he realizes that his wife might choose to leave him - something she would feel terrible about and very guilty considering the circumstances. UGH what a mess. I wonder what most of us would do if our hubbys (or wifes) happened to have a child appear out of the blue and needed to live with us.? I'd probably be on the first flight to Rio :-)!
Wow, a very complicated situation, but not impossible. I'm sure there are plenty of successful 2 CG career families with kids. Perhaps it would help both of them to talk to some of these families to see how they do it. It can be done. I don't think one or the other has to quit. He only has 6 years to go, and let's be honest, it's easier for a guy in his 40's to find employment outside than a woman in her 40's. Sexist, I know, but that's kind of how it is.
When my husband was in the AF there were lots of 2 career families. Sure, you have to juggle a bit more, and you do have to make contingencies for dual deployments (although i think the AF tried to work with families on that) but this is a 9 year old kid. Presumably she is in school and doesn't need a nanny there all day. There are lots of arrangements dual career families make, like having her go to a neighbors after school until one of the parents comes home. I think this is overwhelming for these people simply because they don't have kids, or experience with kids, and don't know what to expect. She isn't a baby. She is old enough to help the mom cook or pick up her things and even do some of her own laundry. She probably isn't totally helpless.
I understand these folks concerns. All new parents go through periods of doubt where they wonder if they can really do it. They just usually have 9 months to get used to the idea, take a breath and realize yea, they probably can.
Miss Cellane
3-16-12, 2:16pm
I think part of the problem is the fact that they are both in the CG. If I remember correctly, even when they are stationed at home in the US, it can be part of their jobs to be gone from home for days or weeks at sea. If they both have desk jobs now, that could change at any time. If they are both stationed together now, that could change at any time. It's not like my dad, who was in the Army, and who could count on coming home every night for most of his assignments for most of his career. And who had my mom, who *wanted* to be a stay at home mom, backing him up.
So, due to the father's and step-wife's jobs, there's a good chance that the child will be left with just one of them for days or weeks or months at a time. The easiest solution is to have one of them quit their job and stay home, but easiest isn't always best.
It's a difficult situation, and will take compromise from both husband and wife if it is to work out. I think it *can* be worked out, but I do think that the husband/father needs to consider everyone's needs, not just his daughter's.
I could see myself accepting the child of my spouse into my home, because I would feel sorry for the kid and I know I could be a half-way decent parent, but I would not appreciate being expected to completely change my life to accommodate said child. I would expect the spouse, the parent of the child, to do the majority of the heavy lifting in such a situation.
Yeah Peggy and Miss Cellene, I think it could work if their jobs, when not deployed, where traditional 9 to 5 jobs but they aren't. They are on patrol boats (different ones) and on call 24/7 and often must leave at the spur of the moment and may not be back for days - sometimes weeks. They don't have the domestic routine that other people, even the larger services, seem to have. So not sure how they can work it out unless either one of them quits or they do get a live in nanny. Sad for the poor little girl (who's actually 8 now - soon to be 9). I was on a patrol boat back when I was in the CG and I remember one time, after a 6 month deployment to the caribeean, we were head back to our home port in Maine. I went to bed after my watch and when I woke up a few hours later I noticed that the land was on the wrong side (took a bit of time and some coffee for this to register :-)). We ended up turning around sometime while I slept only to be gone for a few more months. Happens to people in the CG all the time and would be a common situation for this couple. Neither has a job specialty that would allow for a regular 9 to 5 desk job in the CG.
Rio would be my choice, as well. Under no circumstances should this woman give up her job. She's well on her way to a secure financial future, and her husband's plans would cut that off at the knees.
If I were the woman, there is no way I'd give up my career to raise my stepdaughter. I'm not sure what the state laws are where they live, but if their marriage were to dissolve, I don't believe she would be granted custody. Imagine leaving your career, pension, etc. to raise a child that isn't yours and then if your husband decides to leave, you are left with nothing.
I sympathize with the wife. That's a tough situation. I agree with the others about stability for the child, but honestly, I think it's better to cut the cord and move her out to her new family, if that is what is going to happen anyway. It's not going to get any easier when she's in the throws of puberty. Maybe she can spend some extended time with her grandparents during the summer or over holidays to ease the transition.
I gave up my prime career years to help my husband raise his children. There are days when I regret it. I still worked; I did not put my intense focus on a career, however. It's a dreadful choice, family OR career. I don't have financial savings for retirement, but I did finally say out loud to my DH that the trade-off is that he will be supporting me when I am retired, and he isn't yet, as he is younger than I. He understands... And hopefully, our marriage will stay strong for the long haul, which I believe it will.
This family needs outside counsel stat. Too many conflicting needs, desires, and all that is wrapped up in parenting, and stepparenting, for them to sort out dispassionately on their own. It is treacherous, emotional terrain, IMHO. They CAN balance everyone's needs & goals.
In regards to the child support, if he feels that the grandparents aren't going to take care of that, i believe he can create a trust with it -- which would dictate how it could be spent, and the lawyer (or accountant) can dictate when/how they get it, and he gets a paper trail.
I have been thinking about this situation some more.
A man with NO parenting experience who is attempting to help a young girl through all the changes of puberty, hormonal changes, choices re friends, fashion, values, money, etc., as an absent father is not thinking clearly and has no idea of what is involved.
We raised our two girls with lots of love, shared family outings and daily contact over their entire lives and we struggled to do the right things when they turned 11-12 years old until they were 18 and became quite successfully independent and resourceful.
A man who perceives himself suddenly as a father in front of friends and extended family but expects (dictates?) his wife quit her job and assume all the risk and responsibility of parenting with no negotiation or counselling is not thinking clearly or even intelligently. Families are not military organizations. The wife should never give up her employment security, defined pension benefits and personal health coverage or be asked to do so as she is then being asked to assume all the risk and loss of millions of dollars which will pay for her future including longterm care down the line. Just think- 40 years of pension after retirement of approx $50,000/year =$2 million!!!!!
A man who assumes that this girl will be quietly pleased and happy without intensive continuing emotional support due to the loss of her mother and all the changes that will occur due to the loss of grandparents' support and moving to new location is not putting the wellbeing of the child first.
Should someone so poorly prepared even be allowed to have responsibility for a child?
If nothing else, it's a poignant cautionary tale for those who would leave reproductive responsibility to their sexual partner.
Miss Cellane
3-17-12, 3:31pm
I've been thinking some more about this. What the father needs to do is pretend that he is single. How would he manage caring for a child then? That's the plan he should put into place, not the one where he expects his wife, who is no relation to the child at all, to give up her career to care for the little girl.
I think the dad's heart is in the right place; his mind just hasn't connected to reality yet.
I think the dad's heart is in the right place; his mind just hasn't connected to reality yet.
This is what it sounds like to me, too--a new dad fiercely protective of his child and new role, but needing to learn skills for really BEING a dad as well as strategies to deal successfully with this very complex situation and the cast of characters. A good family counselor is needed, just hope he can find someone good.
I wonder if the CG would provide an extended leave for dad? He is a new dad in a very real sense. If he had extended time to spend with her and her grandparents then everyone would have a better foundation for decision making. I hope they can all work on this from a grounded place. Illusions about being a good parent, about living with a new dad, about not being responsible for a child who is actually IN the family....there is a lot going on. Complicated but not impossible if everyone can think clearly. A family therapist would probably help a lot. The distance is a struggle too, and this poor child has been bereaved and now another upheaval....yeah, it sounds very difficult. They have my sympathy and my best wishes...
flowerseverywhere
3-19-12, 4:30am
I gave up my prime career years to help my husband raise his children. There are days when I regret it. I still worked; I did not put my intense focus on a career, however. It's a dreadful choice, family OR career. I don't have financial savings for retirement, but I did finally say out loud to my DH that the trade-off is that he will be supporting me when I am retired, and he isn't yet, as he is younger than I. He understands... And hopefully, our marriage will stay strong for the long haul, which I believe it will.
This family needs outside counsel stat. Too many conflicting needs, desires, and all that is wrapped up in parenting, and stepparenting, for them to sort out dispassionately on their own. It is treacherous, emotional terrain, IMHO. They CAN balance everyone's needs & goals.
Spartana, this is perhaps the most telling post of them all. Redfox, I don't think it is unusual for one party to give up their career or put it hold when children enter the picture, and certainly in this situation it seems that someone would need to do the 9-5 thing. Even when you are willing to do so, down the road giving up your own career for someone else is a very tricky thing. If the woman did decide to go along with it where will she be if things don't work out as Redfox has noted? She could be assigning herself a life of poverty. And if she really does not want to do it then I can imagine dealing with a teenager could be quite a difficult thing. In the best of circumstances raising a teenager today can be very taxing.
I would think this woman would be required to go before the court and say she was willing and able to raise the child, because I can't imagine a judge giving custody to them in this situation. But stranger things have happened I guess.
Redfox, since there are probably other people who are deciding what to do about careers when kids come along, what would you have done differently with your own career and dealing with the stepchildren in hindsight? My circumstance was different and I was willing to take someone in with lots of financial and emotional support, and being a nurse was able to work around it. Imy marriage had broken up I would not be nearly as financially secure and would be working for quite a long time but I still would have done it.
I have to side with the thought expressed by Anne Lee. To me, I very strongly support and believe in a marriage being forever, through better and worse, etc. One can't guarantee a future, and sometimes circumstances arise that change our plans. If both parties in a marriage believe in what is now a somewhat outdated concept of "till death do us part", then the answer is that spouses stick together, support one another and do whatever it takes to make the marriage work.
The husband is now a father, and willing to assume that role. There are sadly too many who would not. I say, let him take on the child, and he will need to find a way for all other pieces of this puzzle to integrate properly. Whether he needs to find another career, or relocate, etc. are all matters to be worked out. His dw should also keep an open mind and review all options available to them.
I think the grandparents should definitely continue to be a part of the child's life. Perhaps a shared vacation schedule could be worked out? Kiddo spends two weeks in the summer, and every other major holiday with the gps, for example? There does need to be some continuity for the child to feel secure in their identity.
I'll update this quick before reading the newest posts - before my computer battery dies. He (Dad) has decided that he will put in for a hardship transfer to NY so that the girl can remain in her home town with family, friends, school, etc.... This way he can be with her, have a place for them to live together, he can remain in the CG and let the grandparents help out when he is gone. While he is going to try to get a shore unit, there are very few in the CG but he will be able to get on a small boat station that doesn't go out on long patrols. He will still work a weird schedule since they work like firefighters do - 72 hours on, 48 hours off, etc... - so won't be home much but at least he'll be able to stay nearby and spend time with her when he can. The wife however will be staying in SoCal to finish out her current tour and then she plans to try and get a transfer near by him. Not sure that when the time comes she'll actually do that or not - she is still feeling extremely guilty and selfish for not wanting to give up her career to follow and support hubby and help raise the child, but she also feel a huge relief at not having to be a full time or even part time parent at this time. What happens in the future when it's her time to transfer (a year or more) is anyone guess. But as of now that's the plan. Thanks again for all the replies!!
ETA: The woman friend did go talk to a military counselor on Friday (hubby didn't go). Counselors advice: get out of the CG and follow hubby, raise child, etc... and try to be happy doing it. Even though she told him she was becoming very depressed and despondent by the whole idea, he still felt that was what she should do. I was VERY shocked (and justy a bit ticked off) that he could feel this way and blithly encourage her to give up things that mean so much to her (her job - which is MORE than a job to her). He was a VERY old school conselor and his advice actually galvanzied her into making the decision not to get out of the CG and give up what she has even if it means that her and hubby may possibly break up. She's hoping that doesn't happen butb she realizes it's a strong possibility. She kept asking me what "I" would do and I never told her, but I would do what she is doing - stay in the CG and talk hubby into transferring to NY (rather then bring the child to Calif) and then following him out there for my next transfer.
loosechickens
3-19-12, 2:57pm
I didn't post on this thread, Spartana, because I honestly couldn't come up with a scenario that answered all the needs, because it was such a mess of conflicting needs, with each person's needs being legitimate, yet in conflict with the needs of some or all of the others involved.
It sounds as though they have come up with what probably will be about the best they can come up with. What a good friend you've been, to be a sounding board, yet without an agenda to push, so that they could really explore options.
I'm surprised and not in a good way, with the advice of the "counselor", but sometimes bad advice is as good as good advice, because when you hear it, you KNOW it isn't what your heart and mind thinks is the best path, and it sounds as though that happened with the wife. So, useful advice to her, even if not the advice she followed. Helped her hear her OWN voice. The same thing happens to me sometimes (stupid example, I know), when there is too much choice on a menu. My husband will say, helpfully, "you want the chicken", and then instantly, I know if I DON'T want the chicken, even though I'm not sure yet what I want.......
Whether the wife ends up getting transferred eventually, or whether this marriage survives this crisis, remains to be seen. But I'm glad the husband, who is, after all, the one with responsibilities here, is stepping up to do his best to support his daughter, while allowing her to stay where she feels comfortable after all the loss and upset of her recent life.
It's a mess, for sure, and I'm glad that some kind of resolution has been decided on, and hope all works out for them. They are all lucky to have you for a friend!
I'm glad the creepy counselor (who should have been guiding her toward her own best solution, not forcing his prejudices on her) galvanized your friend into making a decision (the right one, IMO).
I'm a believer in marrying for life (for other people, anyway), but some actions are deal-breakers. Bringing a child into a marriage after a mutual agreement not to would most likely qualify for me.
LC & Jane - Yes that counselor was Crazy IMHO - not that the advice was bad but it should have been his role to have HER explore HER feelngs about all this rather then giving his own advice. But I know that many military counselors (and this was a Navy counselor) lean this way as they are all about supporting the family so that the family can support the service memember rather then a traditional marriage conselor. I advised her to see a civilian one - and maybe a female who may be less biased towards traditional marital roles - and to bring the hubby. It'll be a rough road in the future but I actually do think things will work out eventually. She may try to get what is called a "Mutual Transfer" - which is basicly trading places with someone at another unit. As long as it's OK with both commands, and it's paid for by the service member, then you can transfer before your rotation date. I did this when I transferred from Hawaii to North Carolina - didn't have any problem finding someone in North Carolina willing to trade places so they could go to Hawaii ;-)!. I think the same would be true for So. Calif. So they might be able to be together in NY sooner rather than later. What happens when/if they live together as a family - especially as she still wants to be on a patrol boat and would be at sea alot - will probably be the true test of their marriage.
Sounds like a fairly good solution for the time being. Perhaps you can alleviate her guilt somewhat by helping her realize that when she took her stand, he actually had to finally face that it was his sole responsibility both for the unprotected sexual act and the child that resulted, not hers, and with having two good incomes assured longterm, the family will be better able to face expenses in NY now and in the future.
I have moved with DH and his job changes but my skills allowed more flexible employment opportunities; he was the one with defined benefits and I had access to none. Those bennies and pension are worth so much especially when you hit the later years. Never give them up!!!
flowerseverywhere
3-19-12, 9:46pm
I'm a believer in marrying for life (for other people, anyway),
interesting statement Jane. It brings a smile to me but I am not sure why.
It sounds like the best situation was figured out in this very confusing situation. I hope the young girl and her father can forge a relationship- it won't be easy.
I am not sure what the counselor was thinking to give her that advice, it sounds like his opinion not his independent assessment of the situation and leading her to make the best decision for herself.
I think it sounds like a work-able solution, and when her tour is done, she can transfer if possible, if she wants.
Hopefully their marriage will transition well, too. :)
I hope the man can somehow find it within himself to do what's best for the child. I see a vast difference between being a father and having contributed a sperm. There's nothing holy about the latter for me -- being a father is a lot more work than having unprotected sex, a serious commitment with huge repercussions for this young girl's lifelong mental health, and it seemed all he had committed to do so far is to sacrifice his wife's dreams, wishes, and career so he can sing the Mighty Mouse song and be dad-savior.
As someone who lost her mom at about the same age, I can't come close to imagining what it would've been like to be yanked off to live with some people I'd never even met: an unrealistic man who understands nothing about her feelings, and a woman who doesn't want her. Poor, poor thing.
Glad he's coming to his senses....I hope when he meets her, his father-instincts will lead him to what's best for her as a human being.
It's kind of easy to want a child when you aren't willing to make any of the sacrifices needed to have one. That's how I'm viewing the father right now. If he wants full custody and wants someone with the child full time, that's his job. He's just made a career transfer into being a parent.
The wife should absolutely not give up everything she has and has worked for for this man and for a child she doesn't want and never wanted. Female or not, many people are just not meant to be parents in any way whatsoever. What happens a few years down the road when the guy has a mid-life crisis and abandons her and the daughter for another woman? It happens...a lot. Even with people who no one would have ever believed was possible. This woman will be left with nothing but whatever she has managed to wrangle up on her own and independently from the husband. She needs to make sure she is financially protected from whatever foolish decisions this man might make concerning this child in the case that the wife is ever abandoned, or there is a divorce or death or anything else that might leave her destitute. The marriage might very well end up being forever, and great if it does, but best to be prepared for the worst, especially since you can't control the integrity of any other person besides yourself.
It's definitely a bad situation for the child, but don't make it worse by putting her with a woman who isn't parent material and doesn't want her, and a man who seems to like the "romance" of being a dad, but doesn't really want to be personally inconvenienced with the responsibility.
I am old school - marrying for life and all that - and even I am surprised at the counselor's advice.
This sounds like the best outcome for a very difficult situation. I wish this family the best as they take on new roles, responsibilities and relationships.
Thanks for the many responses! I do believe that the Dad really has a good heart and is trying - in his fumbling way - to do the right thing. He just made an assumption that it would be financially and socially best for the child if his wife was the one to give up her job. I think, for a pretty modern guy, he just didn't think it through completely. Now that he has had some time to digest it all, and now understands his wife's position on this, he seems to be more open minded (and regrets asking) for wanting her to be the one to quit. The wife isn't too keen on being a Mom, but I think that she will TRY to fully welcome this child into her life when the time comes. She is trying to support her hubby and do the right thing for the kid but is still struggling with all of it. Not only being a caretaker/parent - even if only part time - but having to deal with the changes that will happen in their lives and marriage over the long term as well as the day to day child rearing things. They have a very untraditional lifestyle so it will be a big challenge for all of them. At least the hubby realizes that he needs to do what's right for the kid and is pursuing that by moving out to NY. It will mean the kid will not have to make any changes in her life in the near future - until it's time for them to get transferred. That's always an issue for miltary families.
Glad to hear that, Spartana. That's why it's good to really take some time with tough stuff like this. First gut reactions are often not really the ones that are in everyone's best interest.
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