View Full Version : Status... and it's effects on people.
I've never really been influenced by status. We live a plain, simple, average, reserved lifestyle, and pretty much everything related to "status", I either look past, or pay little attention to. (Brand new expansive homes, shiny new vehicles, high-end clothing with famous names attached to it, etc). It's all so unimportant to me, particularly when I know that so many who own such things, really can't afford them.
But what got me thinking about "status" in general, is the "Tide clothes detergent being stolen", thread, (posted in the Open Forum), and why so many people tend to get all hung-up over brand name stuff/things.
I myself could easily go to any laundromat with a jug of no-name detergent in my basket, and wash clothes happily (in front of dozens of people), without ever feeling so much as a pinch of discomfort, yet I know people who wouldn't be able to do the same. Why?
Now, this thread isn't restricted only to, or dedicated solely to laundry detergent, as I can think of a multitude of other situations/circumstances where status also applies, but the stolen laundry detergent thread IMO makes for a great starting point to open things up for dialogue and banter.
What are your thoughts Re: status?
I am human, I am a woman, I like clean, healthy, quality things that last in life. None of those are to be confused with Pricey, status, envy type things. I am not ashamed of anything that we have, all bought and paid for. I do not go for name brand as much as if is is something I like and it works and lasts.
Example a few months ago I tried Aldi, I had read much about it on a message board I visit. I am not snooty, but I could not find where most the stuff came from, it all looked like other brands so to me they were trying to make people think they were buying name brand, sure I saved money, but 70% of the stuff nobody ate, so it was wasteful. This is a small status thing, but I prefer quality over lower price if I can.
Hmm, I don't care about designer clothes, bags, makeup, large houses, etc. I'm happy with my regular house in my solidly middle class neighborhood. I do like quality things though. I'm probably somewhat of a snob though. I bought a new-to-me car after the one I had for 14 years was rusting like crazy. I didn't want it parked in the driveway anymore.
Status-seeking is certainly the enemy of simple living, resulting either in the pursuit of material things or power, both of which divert most of a person's money or time or both to things that usually aren't very gratifying in the long run. I'm fortunate to live in an over-55 community where most people aren't concerned with impressing one another. Houses and yards are kept neat and attractive, but few of my neighbors indulge in "flash". Interestingly enough, there are some folks who live in our modest little community who are quite well off. They just don't want to *show* it off.
Personally, I would rather be on the inconspicuous side and not have people notice me much. I have two friends who wear a lot of jewelry. I don't get it. I'd be afraid of having someone follow me home to figure out where all the goodies are stored or being mugged. Not to mention that having a ring on every finger would drive me berserk since I like to do grubby things like gardening and crafts and so I wash my hands a lot.
My house is quite ordinary looking, a one story ranch with nothing remarkable about it except the Jackmanii Clematis (a vine with a large purple flower) that clambers up the porch and over the roof every spring. I drive a 2000 Honda Civic and live in jeans since I retired. I keep a few nice outfits aside for church, but I've given quite a bit of my dressier stuff to charity along with a lot of "business casual". The inside of the house is rather ordinary as well, except for the number of books and an unusually large kitchen. If I had my druthers, I'd prefer a smaller, simpler house with better-designed storage space. This one is 1330 square feet, and it's a killer to clean. Carpet everywhere. Cat hair on the carpet. But no big gripes, and I certainly don't want something bigger and fancier.
In the past year I've learned several hard lessons about valuing money too highly, both from coworkers. One of them died from a massive heart attack just a few years before he qualified for the maximum pension and benefits. I suspect he could have retired earlier, but he held on even though he hated his job and said so often. He lived for retirement and didn't make it. Another former coworker is dying from cancer and she wouldn't quit her job until she was forced to do so because she and her husband loved to travel and buy every new electronic gizmo that came on the market.
If I could make a wish for one more thing, it would be time, not stuff.
I know that there are people who do not truly recognize “status” in their life but I’m not one of them. While I would never chase ghetto popular things like name brand laundry detergents 'cause I'm too much of a snob (and I know that brand names are important in lower socio-economic households,) I certainly have my own status markers, a whole long list of them, actually. Status markers for being cool or interesting more so than class markers.
At least I try to be cognizant of my internal “status” evaluations so that I can compensate for it, if necessary.
Our friends have kidded us about being reverse status seekers because we don’t have cable tv. And I admit, I like the status of not having cable, but mainly I don’t have cable tv because it’s just another techno-thing to complicate my life. I don’t see the value in it.
Here’s something that knocked me over yesterday because it showed me how invested I was in a status marker, “being smart” for lack of a better term. I learned that someone in my high school class has a Phd in Philosophy. I could not grok this! She was not remotely smart in high school, she was a doofus. She wasn’t in high track classes of any kind! HOW CAN THAT BE!!!!??? I even checked her dissertation to see if it came from an accredited school.
What a snob I am, apprently. I think that philosophy isn’t an easy discipline and I respect those who chase it. Well, getting a Phd isn’t easy in ANY discipline. Like I said, I was astonished by my reaction to this news, it’s very odd. I didn’t think that I put much value on academic degrees. Hmmm. I don’t like it when I surprise myself in a not-good way.;)
Status, though is in the mind I think.
If a person works hard, saves, invests, gives back, but oh my goodness buys a new Mercedes every few years because that is what they enjoy and you can't spend it in the grave, people sometimes think they are into all that glitters. Somehow in the last 15 years during the newer era of really big homes ( yes there was another era, just glance around at any city USA and see the massive homes from 1910 or so. ) it did bother me when people got on their soap boxes and criticized those that had the McMansions. Many really did earn the money and did not finance it all to the hilt. Many are not wasteful as it seemed. Yet sometimes many do not want to see others successful rewards to themselves.
Here’s something that knocked me over yesterday because it showed me how invested I was in a status marker, “being smart” for lack of a better term. I learned that someone in my high school class has a Phd in Philosophy. I could not grok this! She was not remotely smart in high school, she was a doofus. She wasn’t in high track classes of any kind! HOW CAN THAT BE!!!!??? I even checked her dissertation to see if it came from an accredited school.
What a snob I am, apprently. I think that philosophy isn’t an easy discipline and I respect those who chase it. Well, getting a Phd isn’t easy in ANY discipline. Like I said, I was astonished by my reaction to this news, it’s very odd. I didn’t think that I put much value on academic degrees. Hmmm. I don’t like it when I surprise myself in a not-good way.;)
You might be surprised at how easy it is to get an advanced degree these days. Back when I applied to college, there were stringent entrance requirements and my school thought nothing of suspending or terminating students who didn't keep up their academic grades, regardless of talent or how much money their parents had. (This was primarily an art school, but it was an accredited college.) Now it seems like anyone who can either pay the tuition or qualify for a loan can graduate, at whatever level. Degrees don't mean much any more.
Oh I like to /think/ I don't chase status, but I do have my items. They just aren't the typical ones. I live in a modest house and drive a modest car and the like. But I do like quality clothes. I don't care about the label per se, but I do find that Talbots and Ann Taylor items at the consignment store fit me well. look good and last. Well that's for work anyways. The rest of the time I'm in cheapo Tshirts and sweat pants. I'm also a big food snob. Not in a showing off kind of way, just in what I personally like to eat eg. St. Andre cheese over Velveeta.
I'm also an experience snob in a way. I like to say I've tried things, whether it be starting my own seeds or making my own crackers.
My neighbor across the street thinks I'm poor, and that my modest house and car is all I can afford. I'm not so much concerned with LOOKING wealthy as BEING wealthy.
My neighbor across the street thinks I'm poor, and that my modest house and car is all I can afford. I'm not so much concerned with LOOKING wealthy as BEING wealthy.
:+1:
ApatheticNoMore
3-16-12, 8:16pm
Realistically who has that kind of money anyway? And doesn't just surviving take precedence for most people anyway? I mean ok just surviving isn't necessarily base level survival. Maybe you want a working car, and maybe a working computer, maybe healthy foods, perhaps laundry detergent and a salad spinner ;), maybe you are even a bit picky about the neighborhoods you live in and avoid the ghetto. But by that point = MONEY ALL GONE. Or if it's not you save for a yearly vacation maybe.
I did read a bit of this book about luxery (and by read I mean read the free pages by "searching inside this book" :))
http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-How-Luxury-Lost-Luster/dp/0143113704
It's really quite interesting, if a bit snobbish. It validates my suspicions - that luxery items such as purses and stuff are all a lie. They aren't necessarily made all that well, in fact $600 purses are often just made in China like everything else. And while ok they may be higher quality than a $10 purse from Walmart, they aren't necessarily truly high quality. The snobbishness comes in where she argues "true luxery items were meant to be afforded only by the really rich". I mean ok that's all well and good for yachts or giant emeralds or something, but I really do think quality basic goods, like say a well made wallet that doesn't fall apart right away could be available to wide cross section of people, but junk rules the day for now.
Like you all, I am a snob in my own way.
I don't care about the bling, or the techno gadgets, or the academic degrees (Iris Lily--my mom would be soooo proud of me if I had more than a bachelor's degree) or the kids that go to Ivy League schools (ack--this is the status of my current milleu.)
But people who have happy, functional, long-term relationships---this impresses me. Whether it is couples married for 70+ years (I care for half of one now) that are respectful and playful and flat-out enjoy each other's company...or it is the schitzophrenic homosexual couple who left the Mental Health Facility because it could not support their relationship, and they cared for each other for 16+ years with nothing but disability checks, the occasional dishwashing job and food baskets from the Unity church...or the single parent (this is my role model) who raises 12 children on the garden and taking in washing and miniscule payment she got from the coal mine when her husband was killed in an accident there in the late 1930s. I met this woman when she was dying and the 12 children she raised w/ very little help without exception praised her attention to them, her efforts to better their lives, the shear energy she put into providing for them on the physical, emotional and spiritual levels leaves me in jaw-dropping-awe.
People who know how to love, those people impress me. Very little else does.
You might be surprised at how easy it is to get an advanced degree these days. Back when I applied to college, there were stringent entrance requirements and my school thought nothing of suspending or terminating students who didn't keep up their academic grades, regardless of talent or how much money their parents had. (This was primarily an art school, but it was an accredited college.) Now it seems like anyone who can either pay the tuition or qualify for a loan can graduate, at whatever level. Degrees don't mean much any more.
yes, true, and this is what DH said:" so when did she actually GET this degree, within the past 20 year? It's easier now." . But guess what, this person is teaching at a Jesuit university. I would think they'd be pretty damn picky about who teaches philosophy. Now, she's not in s tenured position, but hey,getting a teaching position in philosophy is quite an accomplishment!
What i find a bit amusing is that these people are wasting their energy getting the name brand purse, or buying the name brand laundry detergent (which i never in a million years would have known about) and wearing the name brand jacket/blouse/pant and it is completely wasted on me, as well as most people I know. I wouldn't recognise a name brand anything unless someone pointed it out to me. If these people are parading in front of me proudly displaying their tag, well, sorry. Doesn't do a thing for me. I never really know what to say to someone who shows me their new purse/hat/jacket and says knowingly, 'it's a whoever'. What do you say? I usually just smile and nod and pretend I know what the hell they are talking about! Plenty of oohhs and aahhs, when what I'm really thinking is, "you just spent how much money on a jacket with someone else's name in 3 inch letters on the sleeve?
ApatheticNoMore
3-16-12, 9:36pm
Now it seems like anyone who can either pay the tuition or qualify for a loan can graduate, at whatever level. Degrees don't mean much any more.
It can still be plenty hard. If you are working full time and going to school .. um that's hard .... just the time requirements. And oh even if you aren't and somehow manage to just go to school .... paying back the massive loan - now *THAT* is what I call HARD!!!! Just maybe not hard acedemically. :)
I like to think that I don't care about status merchandise, but there are a few things I notice. As a musician, I notice if somebody has a Yamaha guitar or a Martin. Since my son is a figure skater, I notice is a skater is wearing cheapo skates or expensive ones. In these situations I make assumptions about the person's skill level, not their social or economic status...but really, anybody can buy expensive stuff whether they are a good musician/skater or not.
goldensmom
3-16-12, 10:17pm
If I get persnickety about a brand name product it is because it works well and/or is of good quality. The Tide thing…..I go to a laundromat periodically to wash quilts and I take a small amount of Tide detergent in a small glass jar, no big ole orange/red bottle to show off. I often will get a particular brand name of clothing because it wears forever wash after wash after wash. Usually the brand name clothing item comes from a rummage sale or Salvation Army. I want a vehicle that is clean and in good working condition, a little particular about the color but the make/model is inconsequential. I’m picky about coffee but that is a matter of taste, no one sees the brand of coffee I have in my kitchen cupboard.
As for people status, I’ve heard that Robert E. Lee is quoted as saying ‘we are all equal at the foot of the cross‘. I don’t know if Robert E. Lee ever really said that but it is true. We raise certain people above others based on occupation, looks, family connections, athletic/musical ability, wealth or whatever but as a friend once said, ‘even the queen picks her nose‘, a graphic but good illustration of how we are none better than the other, different but not better.
We all have our ways of judging and ranking, whether it's "I live in a yurt with thirty-five personal belongings" or "Look at my Prada bag!" Just human nature. I get my name brand duds (Oh boy--it's Ralph Lauren for $3.50!) at Value Village, so I straddle the line, I guess.
Labels don't impress me at all. My friend will show me designer things she buys on sale at TJ Maxx or wherever and they're usually not suited to her or just unattractive, but she bought them based on the label. However I will buy something based on its quality, which usually will have a recognizeable name, like Clarks shoes, L.L. Bean, etc.
I found this somewhere some time ago and wrote it down because it's so true:
"A Coach bag is a great example of how people want to look richer than they are, as a middle class woman who buys a Coach bag does so thinking it makes her appear to be more upper class because she's partaking in a more expensive brand. But upper class women don't carry Coach bags, because despite the price it's definitely a middle class bag. An upper class woman wouldn't be impressed by a middle class woman carrying a Coach bag.
But middle class women don't typically know upper class women, and don't need to impress them. Instead, they're actually trying to impress other middle class women who also buy into the myth. And so they're caught up in an endless materialistic social treadmill, with the only benefactors being the bulls*** luxury brands."
fidgiegirl
3-16-12, 10:39pm
Status stresses me out. I'm really not that interested in baubles or clothes. However, there are other things that are valued in my circles and I have noticed I fall into it, too.
1) Technology. I'm a die-hard Apple user that has never owned a PC, even in the floundering days of the company. I can't say it's ALWAYS been because they worked better, though now I do think that.
2) Food and where you buy it. Organic, local, free range, whatever, and not bought at Cub, Rainbow, etc. - only at the upscale local grocers. This is a mix of ethics and status. The sourcing is ethical, but the store: status. Cub carries a lot of the same stuff as Byerly's or Kowalski's.
3) Education - who has what degree and from where. In my mind, a degree from an online program is not the same as one that involved a face-to-face component. Intellectually, I know that's misplaced. Emotionally, I can't get past it. There are also master's of education programs in the area that are known for being easier or harder than others, like everything.
4) Cars - hardly anyone I know drives domestic cars, perceiving them as lower quality. DH and I aren't so worried about the brand, but next time we buy, we will be looking at reviews, Consumer Reports, etc.
I hate recognizing these things. :(
I think that my in-law family is more into status that my family of origin. I didn't used to care where I bought my groceries (well, before I listened to some books about humane treatment of animals - but that's a different issue. That's ethics-based, not status-based). Now I still do most of what I used to do before I was married but it stresses me out to not be able to predict what is good enough, clean enough, etc. for my in-laws (and my DH in some cases). When a food item is brought to a family dinner the bringer often feels the need to detail the origin and the "labels" - it's organic, vegan, local, etc. and turn noses up at the buns from the commercial bakery. We are even directed to get "good buns" or the exact brand of soda to bring to a potluck. I'm just clueless about the expectations, so it's probably better that way. Sigh.
Now I'm going back over to the anxiety thread . . .
iris lily
3-16-12, 11:56pm
Status, though is in the mind I think.
If a person works hard, saves, invests, gives back, but oh my goodness buys a new Mercedes every few years because that is what they enjoy and you can't spend it in the grave, people sometimes think they are into all that glitters. Somehow in the last 15 years during the newer era of really big homes ( yes there was another era, just glance around at any city USA and see the massive homes from 1910 or so. ) it did bother me when people got on their soap boxes and criticized those that had the McMansions. Many really did earn the money and did not finance it all to the hilt. Many are not wasteful as it seemed. Yet sometimes many do not want to see others successful rewards to themselves.
Ha ha I know, I live in a land of McMansions, McMansions built in 1885. And they have cookie cutter floor plans as well. So I always silently laughed, too, when people were talking about modern McMansions. But even then still l don't like 4,000 sq ft palaces of drywall (modern McMansions.)
I wonder about the sociology of status symbols. They are definitely an outward appearance kinda thing. I suspect that's been a part of our species for some time... Bonding is a core part of our socializiation, and cuing others into shared norms by an immediately apprehended visual cue seems logical.
In the society in which we live, where there is an excess of everything, it seems to me that these cues are exaggerated. I also think everyone engages in outward display of status, even if subtle.
I sure am attached to these things: my long hair; certain types of clothing - typical hippie garb, long scarves & shawls, clogs or birkenstocks, etc.; groovy organic food; driving an older Honda hybrid; and so one.
These things cue who I perceive to be my people. I've certainly stuck my nose in the air at Humvee & big SUV drivers. So silly! I may genuinely like the individuals who drive big ol' gas hog vehicles, and my pre-judging them, my prejudice, can get in the way of getting to know them. Just as someone else's prejudice about Queer folks who are wildly dressed may get in the way of their getting to know them.
We're such an interesting species!
ApatheticNoMore
3-17-12, 3:19am
1) Technology. I'm a die-hard Apple user that has never owned a PC, even in the floundering days of the company. I can't say it's ALWAYS been because they worked better, though now I do think that.
PCs are much more work relevant for me.
3) Education - who has what degree and from where. In my mind, a degree from an online program is not the same as one that involved a face-to-face component.
An online program is probably not where you should be when you're 18 - go out learn with hundreds of other young people etc. But really even back then I actually *learned* mostly from the textbooks, though I'd force myself to go to classes just to review what I learned when I was doing what I considered my REAL learning of studying the textbook etc. I think many introverts can learn quite well if not better from books etc., extroverts probably learn better from class. So I actually think online classes are ideal for somewhat self-motivating introvert working adults, who dont' want to deal with nightmare commutes just to attend classes etc.. Some of the for profit schools that offer such things however are unfortunately not very credible, but the medium works great for me.
Greatly enjoying everyone's insight. A wonderful read.
Re: status, IMO, it's a rarity to happen upon people who truly seek something unique, individual, or exceptional (on the scale of high-end-- with an attached high-end price tag), strictly on the grounds of pacifying the hunger that grows inside of them as a way of spending hard-earned dollars on something hard-earned.
I'll fess up. I spent years, and I do mean YEARS, trying to keep up with the Jones'. In my case the Jones' were my clients and in almost every case they were fantastically wealthy (think ten digit kind of wealth). I spent what many might consider a fortune on the right cars, the best wine, the right clothes, the right vacations, a proper address, the finest restaurants... It certainly wasn't all bad, but it was a lot of work. I grew up in a very humble, very frugal household. I guess it was a way of trying to rise above that. There was no big epiphany that changed my approach, I just basically got bored with the whole thing. DW, who has always been the more steady and levelheaded (and dare I say more secure) one, held on to the few remnants of that lifestyle that she liked and easily slipped into more comfortable shoes in all other ways. It was very educational and I have no regrets. In some ways it was a lot of fun. Overall though I'm much more content with a more modest lifestyle and a slower pace.
While I would never chase ghetto popular things like name brand laundry detergents 'cause I'm too much of a snob (and I know that brand names are important in lower socio-economic households,) ...
It's amazing how much attention is paid to brand names in the highest economic strata as well, and i think for a lot of the same reason (affirmation, acceptance, status, etc.). In the day I wouldn't dare wear tennis shoes or flip flops to a party. LV's would work in a pinch, but D&G were always preferred in that circle. People actually noticed that stuff! My wife's birthday gift needed to come in a Bergdorf box. The wine we took to a BBQ, which was simply a "thank you for inviting us" gift because the party was actually catered, needed to be Napa cult or an appropriate first growth Bordeaux from a 90+ point vintage (Parker rated, of course). Literally EVERYTHING had to have a label, a brand name. When you get right down to it it was kind of bizarre how much time and effort was spent finding just the right thing to go with whatever the occasion of the minute was. Funny thing is, you can take the boy out of the country, but... All the folks I tried so hard to impress could spot the Gypsy in the palace a mile away! FWIW, I still have the shoes! ;)
ETA: My personal lesson was as simple as discovering that luxury and expensive are not necessarily synonymous terms. Most of y'all got that way before I did.
In the end, I like to do what makes me happy, which is unlikely to add or subtract from my "status." I couldn't be more middle-class; my bling is mostly fake, and I alternate Clarks with Crocs. Take it or leave it, world.
(I've had a couple of thrifted Coach bags--the old ones are particularly sturdy and classic. I couldn't be less concerned with what some one-percenter thinks of them--as the rather snooty article quoted above points out, it's not like I hobnob with the elites anyway.)
ETA: I'm fortunate to run in a tiny crowd of like-minded people who--I devoutly hope--don't disdain me for making purchases they wouldn't personally. One reason I'll never be a "people person" is the constant petty gossip and behind the back criticism that seems to pass for sport among so many--part of jockeying for the all-important status, I guess.
I wonder about the sociology of status symbols. They are definitely an outward appearance kinda thing. I suspect that's been a part of our species for some time... Bonding is a core part of our socializiation, and cuing others into shared norms by an immediately apprehended visual cue seems logical.
In the society in which we live, where there is an excess of everything, it seems to me that these cues are exaggerated. I also think everyone engages in outward display of status, even if subtle.
I sure am attached to these things: my long hair; certain types of clothing - typical hippie garb, long scarves & shawls, clogs or birkenstocks, etc.; groovy organic food; driving an older Honda hybrid; and so one.
These things cue who I perceive to be my people. I've certainly stuck my nose in the air at Humvee & big SUV drivers. So silly! I may genuinely like the individuals who drive big ol' gas hog vehicles, and my pre-judging them, my prejudice, can get in the way of getting to know them. Just as someone else's prejudice about Queer folks who are wildly dressed may get in the way of their getting to know them.
We're such an interesting species!
Great post, IMO.
One of my sometimes hobbies is making jewelry. While I was learning I read an article about how jewelry once served a useful purpose, and that was identifying members of a tribe. It makes sense that the way we dress and what we drive would serve the same purpose.
yes, true, and this is what DH said:" so when did she actually GET this degree, within the past 20 year? It's easier now." . But guess what, this person is teaching at a Jesuit university. I would think they'd be pretty damn picky about who teaches philosophy. Now, she's not in s tenured position, but hey,getting a teaching position in philosophy is quite an accomplishment!
Jesuits would expect the very best from a teacher, but let's wait and see how long she lasts. Pardon my prejudices, but I had a very hard time working with stupid people who somehow got accounting degrees. I've even met a few really dimwitted CPAs.
What i find a bit amusing is that these people are wasting their energy getting the name brand purse, or buying the name brand laundry detergent (which i never in a million years would have known about) and wearing the name brand jacket/blouse/pant and it is completely wasted on me, as well as most people I know. I wouldn't recognise a name brand anything unless someone pointed it out to me. If these people are parading in front of me proudly displaying their tag, well, sorry. Doesn't do a thing for me. I never really know what to say to someone who shows me their new purse/hat/jacket and says knowingly, 'it's a whoever'. What do you say? I usually just smile and nod and pretend I know what the hell they are talking about! Plenty of oohhs and aahhs, when what I'm really thinking is, "you just spent how much money on a jacket with someone else's name in 3 inch letters on the sleeve?
Thanks for the laugh. :D
I own a Coach handbag and at the time I bought it, I had no idea it would be something other women would envy. I saw what I wanted while shopping at Marshall's, zoomed across the store and grabbed it, only checking to make sure it was leather and had a single shoulder strap. I'm not sure I paid any attention to the brand at the time. It wasn't until several years later when I started my last job, that a woman coworker oohed and aahed over the bag and it dawned that I was wearing a status symbol. (To Coach's credit, I still use the bag and it still looks great more than ten years later.)
It can still be plenty hard. If you are working full time and going to school .. um that's hard .... just the time requirements. And oh even if you aren't and somehow manage to just go to school .... paying back the massive loan - now *THAT* is what I call HARD!!!! Just maybe not hard acedemically. :)
That's really my gripe - not the students, but the schools who'll take anybody and push them through, regardless of intelligence or talent. I respect people who struggle to get those degrees, in fact I've been there. I got my accounting credits and passed the CPA exam while working full time.
Hmmm. I am something of a snob about my credentials. !Splat!
I have my mom's coach bag from the 80's, which she hardly used. It's black with brass hardware. I took the tag off of it, and it is a fantastic bag! Especially when I carry it dressed to the hilt in my long skirts & cowboy boots. In the way that ironic use of vintage status symbols can be very much fun...
IshbelRobertson
3-17-12, 2:39pm
Handbags, shoes and EDUCATION! I'm really fussy about all of those!
I used to be a horse show steward My job is was kind of like a referee of sorts There were certain exhibitors ( or worse, parents of youth exhibitors ) that were very difficult to deal with And all of the show managers, judges and other show stewards knew who they were... These shows were open shows, meaning open to all breeds When I knew that I was going to be working at either with a new show mangement or in an area that I knew that the difficult people were going to be showing , I would use my status of my showing (National. World level) kind of like a sheriff's badge if you will....LOL I always wore my Reserve World Champion sterling belt buckle . I did not seem to have as much problems with those difficult people/parents rarely question my knowledge of the rules, argue over the judges placings or any of the other petty stuff that would generally happen at these shows I never talked about it unless someone asked me. I would notice people looking at it alot.
I wonder about the sociology of status symbols. They are definitely an outward appearance kinda thing. I suspect that's been a part of our species for some time... Bonding is a core part of our socializiation, and cuing others into shared norms by an immediately apprehended visual cue seems logical.
In the society in which we live, where there is an excess of everything, it seems to me that these cues are exaggerated. I also think everyone engages in outward display of status, even if subtle.
I sure am attached to these things: my long hair; certain types of clothing - typical hippie garb, long scarves & shawls, clogs or birkenstocks, etc.; groovy organic food; driving an older Honda hybrid; and so one.
These things cue who I perceive to be my people. I've certainly stuck my nose in the air at Humvee & big SUV drivers. So silly! I may genuinely like the individuals who drive big ol' gas hog vehicles, and my pre-judging them, my prejudice, can get in the way of getting to know them. Just as someone else's prejudice about Queer folks who are wildly dressed may get in the way of their getting to know them.
We're such an interesting species!
Chiming in to agree this is an excellent post; bears repeating.
gimmethesimplelife
3-18-12, 12:53pm
Status means next to nothing to me. It hasn't since 2006 since I really started burning out on the consumption/work/treadmill thing. At this point in my life, I am thinking of growing old in the third world somewhere so as to access affordable health care and keep my costs down and perhaps have all kinds of volunteer work activities to keep me busy constructively, or maybe buying a small mobile home on some land to grow much of my own food at some point out in the future. These are not the actions of someone seeking status lol. Something in me really has changed since living simpler - the other day I was doing a taste test for a marketing research company and the facility was next to the state's largest mall. I walked into Dillard's and they were having a 65 percent off and then 50 more percent off that on men's winter clothes, some really good buys and some really status names and I looked but walked away with nothing. That is a Rob that no longer is I realized, and I don't need to buy more stuff, no matter how cheap.....Jeans and clean and decent sportshirts and sandals or basic shoes are all I need really, and this can all be bought secondhand for even less with no buyer's remorse.....I pity the people who are competing for status, to me it seems to be lose/lose for most and perhaps a quick way to a heart attack or some kind of health issues.....Rob
So your status will be that of an itinerant ascetic humanitarian--sweet!
Excellent additions everybody! Thanks for them. Allowing things to digest (somewhat) before returning to add to.
Status means next to nothing to me. It hasn't since 2006 since I really started burning out on the consumption/work/treadmill thing. At this point in my life, I am thinking of growing old in the third world somewhere so as to access affordable health care and keep my costs down and perhaps have all kinds of volunteer work activities to keep me busy constructively, or maybe buying a small mobile home on some land to grow much of my own food at some point out in the future. These are not the actions of someone seeking status lol. Something in me really has changed since living simpler - the other day I was doing a taste test for a marketing research company and the facility was next to the state's largest mall. I walked into Dillard's and they were having a 65 percent off and then 50 more percent off that on men's winter clothes, some really good buys and some really status names and I looked but walked away with nothing. That is a Rob that no longer is I realized, and I don't need to buy more stuff, no matter how cheap.....Jeans and clean and decent sportshirts and sandals or basic shoes are all I need really, and this can all be bought secondhand for even less with no buyer's remorse.....I pity the people who are competing for status, to me it seems to be lose/lose for most and perhaps a quick way to a heart attack or some kind of health issues.....Rob
I hear you! Now that I'm retired and don't have to wear a "business casual" outfit every day I've almost completely lost interest in new clothes. I've donated quite a few bags of stuff to Purple Heart, and I wonder why I never noticed all those working years that L.L. Bean's own brand of turtleneck is uncomfortably tight at the neck and wrists. Can't stand them any more! I only bought four new, more comfortable ones to replace about a dozen classic L.L. Bean T-necks that I donated. Interesting to me that I struggled for years to build a working wardrobe around a few, limited colors and now it's coming so easily when I feel free to toss the things I don't like. Just about everything in my closet now is either blue or purple along with a few basic black and white items.
A lot of highly accredited brick and mortar universities offer a large number of classes and programs online, so you can still get your degrees online if you choose, but no one else looking at your credentials or resume would have any clue whether you did it online or sat in the classroom or a mixture of both. If you attend a local state university, the cost tends to be a lot less than the questionable for profit schools too.
As far as the woman who got a teaching job at a Jesuit uni goes, maybe she's changed and grown up since the old days and became a lot more serious about her education and talents.
Status symbols are wasted on me too. I have no clue what people are wearing and would probably give them a blank look if they rambled on about it. Kind of similar in the way I have no clue when they talk about some current TV reality show they watched last night. It's just that far down my list of importance.
Among some, rejection of modern culture is a status issue. That's the point I tried to make earlier. I think it was Redfox who suggested we choose our status totems and points of reference to impress/fit in with our chosen tribe.
Among some, rejection of modern culture is a status issue. That's the point I tried to make earlier. I think it was Redfox who suggested we choose our status totems and points of reference to impress/fit in with our chosen tribe.
+1. Really the whole point, isn't it?
Wow. I really kinda like the idea of being part of a tribe. Especially this one.
ApatheticNoMore
3-21-12, 1:01pm
What if you mostly choose what you want to buy based on what pleases you? I mean sure you could do the analysis on why what please you pleases you - um mostly character traits formed in childhood and added to over the years ... and you might tell people what pleases you and get status some points that way - hey I have furniture in my home as opposed to not having it (what I did the first decade or so). Isn't that like so cool? Hey I bought this book and read it, isn't that awesome, aren't I smart, don't I just read the coolest things?
But it isn't EXPERIENCED like that, that's not how the felt experience goes. The felt experience is not "I want to buy this to impress", but merely: I WANT THIS. The impressing people may be there in the background, may be the ultimate motive (for we surely don't exist only for ourselves, but always exist in a social context), but it's not in the foreground. And really as I usually spend a while just enjoying something myself BEFORE even bragging about it that's another reason pleasing oneself is foreground, the social stuff all background.
It may be a matter of impressing someone 'below' you (thinking most socioeconomically), but in a tribal sense I think it is about gaining acceptance from those who are similar. To a degree it is probably also about signaling someone with similar interests that you both are members of the same tribe. I buy what I like, sure, but I do also think about the message it sends to friends and strangers alike. There are thousands of books on the subject so there must be something to it.
Very interesting thread.
I've only very recently come to accept and feel that material items/outward appearance bear little relevance to what's important and to who a person actually is.
Sometimes I feel intimidated by certain friends of mine who are in good jobs that match their skill level and that pay well - I often feel like a child next to them and it knocks my confidence, despite the fact that I have equivalent or more advanced qualifications. However, if I make a conscious effort to remind myself that people are not defined by their socioeconomic status, no matter where they fall on the scale, it helps quell my recurring status-related discomfort.
Status Anxiety (http://www.librarything.com/work/28005/book/63968540) by Alain de Botton is a good read if anyone is interested.
I've only very recently come to accept and feel that material items/outward appearance bear little relevance to what's important and to who a person actually is.
Where I live, the fellow in the scruffy Carhartts driving the beatup pickup truck might well be a billionaire, and the guy in the latest casual fashion with the expensive new hybrid SUV and expensive house might well be an up-to-the-eyeballs-in-debt recent immigrant, doomed to failure within a few short seasons.
Status here is determined more by:
- Do you live here year-round, or are you a summer-person, or simply a seasonal tourist?
- How long have you been here? Have you survived 2+ winter seasons living here? You are pretty low-status if you haven't passed that basic test, most people don't make it 3 seasons, and there is low social acceptance of "incomers" until they do.
- What do you do in the community? It is common for people to have multiple positions here, and the guy you see working in the field may also be a waiter at a local restaurant, a high school teacher, a fireman/EMT, a member of the community band, and a director of the school board or community foundation. Judging someone from a single encounter is the route to madness.
- Who do you interact with? Do you do most of your shopping over on the mainland, and stay in your home, and only associate with a handful of folks, or do you buy from local producers, and work with/for people all over the community?
- Are you accomplished? It doesn't really matter at what, just that you can do *something* well, and enjoy it.
Where I live, the fellow in the scruffy Carhartts driving the beatup pickup truck might well be a billionaire, and the guy in the latest casual fashion with the expensive new hybrid SUV and expensive house might well be an up-to-the-eyeballs-in-debt recent immigrant, doomed to failure within a few short seasons.
That makes me think of Sam Walton, showing up at his stores in a beat-up pickup truck and wearing overalls so as to "disguise" himself and see how ordinary customers were treated at Walmart.
Status here is determined more by:
- Do you live here year-round, or are you a summer-person, or simply a seasonal tourist?
- How long have you been here? Have you survived 2+ winter seasons living here? You are pretty low-status if you haven't passed that basic test, most people don't make it 3 seasons, and there is low social acceptance of "incomers" until they do.
- What do you do in the community? It is common for people to have multiple positions here, and the guy you see working in the field may also be a waiter at a local restaurant, a high school teacher, a fireman/EMT, a member of the community band, and a director of the school board or community foundation. Judging someone from a single encounter is the route to madness.
- Who do you interact with? Do you do most of your shopping over on the mainland, and stay in your home, and only associate with a handful of folks, or do you buy from local producers, and work with/for people all over the community?
- Are you accomplished? It doesn't really matter at what, just that you can do *something* well, and enjoy it.
Those are some of the most logical, justifiable reasons for determining status that I've ever read.
I've only very recently come to accept and feel that material items/outward appearance bear little relevance to what's important and to who a person actually is.
Its been a while now since I came to that point (took me a while to get full circle, but back there now). It does still strike me as curious how fervent some folks are when affirming that nothing material matters. I mean, so what if it does? It strikes me about the same way as some atheists who need to loudly bang the drum while declaring there is no God. Anti-deity as a religion, anti-material as same. No particular point other than it can be entertaining to see how hard some people work to be non-materialistic.
This is such an enjoyable read. I love hearing everyone's insight as to this. Definitely opened my way of thinking related to.
Originally posted by Bae.
Status here is determined more by:
- Do you live here year-round, or are you a summer-person, or simply a seasonal tourist?I wonder if this could be construed differently by some? For instance, Mr- Mrs (so and so) travel to our island yearly, instead of playing follow the leader and going to Europe or some other exotic destination (like so many others). I think it would cause some to believe that Mr- Mrs (so and so) are well-heeled, and possibly looking to invest in a residence on the island so they can call it home.
Its been a while now since I came to that point (took me a while to get full circle, but back there now). It does still strike me as curious how fervent some folks are when affirming that nothing material matters. I mean, so what if it does? It strikes me about the same way as some atheists who need to loudly bang the drum while declaring there is no God. Anti-deity as a religion, anti-material as same. No particular point other than it can be entertaining to see how hard some people work to be non-materialistic.
This may be the only material world I'll get to experience, so I'm reveling in it; maybe I'll renounce worldly pleasures in my next life, but I doubt it.
loosechickens
3-22-12, 12:23am
To me, it is less whether you enjoy some material pleasures than it is whether or not you somehow think that those material pleasures say something about "who you are", or who other people are. The skinflint and the spendthrift are both obsessed with money, one with not spending any and the other with spending too much.....and to me, the whole idea of material goods and "status" is the same thing. If you are obsessed with anti-materialism, why is that any different from materialism, in the sense that it's just the opposite sides of the same coin.
One rule of thumb for me with luxuries is that it's fine to enjoy them, but when I start to think that I NEED them, it's a problem. I like feeling as though I am capable of living very simply, and with few possessions, even if at that particular point in life, I'm enjoying luxury out the wazoo.......if the Universe swooped down and took those luxuries from me, would I be o.k.? Yep.
I have my own snobbishnesses, but they are seldom about what someone owns......maybe what they read, or what they think, or the lack of thinking, but seldom about possessions, unless it's in the direction of "over the top" conspicuous consumption....I can be VERY snobbishly against that, hahahaha
I have my own snobbishnesses, but they are seldom about what someone owns......maybe what they read, or what they think, or the lack of thinking, but seldom about possessions, unless it's in the direction of "over the top" conspicuous consumption....I can be VERY snobbishly against that, hahahaha
If nothing else LC I'm pretty sure that "Dress for Success" was lost on you. ;)
We all have status and group membership whether we (consciously) mean to or not. Among my posse, "I found these perfect shoes in the free box at the co-op!" is more likely than "Look at my Prada!" but if the Prada lady is kind and funny and tolerant of others, she's welcome in my little circle (even more so if she's smart, artistic, and partial to cats). Conversely, if she's a hypercritical bore--no matter how PC--she can find her own group of like-minded souls.
I have the anti-snob snobbery (reverse snobbery) thing. It's making a conscious effort to not belong to a group that has a certain status attached to it. Take motorcycles for instance (which I have owned in the past and am contemplating getting again). I will never own a Harley because I don't like the whole Harley-clone thing (as I call it because they all dress and look alike), that middle aged, middle management "look at how cool and successful I am" status symbol. In reality I know that's not really how it is, but the whole thing sort of bugs me and, in my anti-snob snobbery, I just don't want to be associated with that group. Same with other things too - I make a conscious effort not to belong (or own, use, participate) in things that lend a certain "status" to people. That is snobbery in and of itself, although (in my anti-snob snobbery way) I like to call it rebellion against the status quo ;-)!
At least you see the irony... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/snoozer/Police.gif
I have the anti-snob snobbery (reverse snobbery) thing. It's making a conscious effort to not belong to a group that has a certain status attached to it. Take motorcycles for instance (which I have owned in the past and am contemplating getting again). I will never own a Harley because I don't like the whole Harley-clone thing (as I call it because they all dress and look alike), that middle aged, middle management "look at how cool and successful I am" status symbol......
As a motorcycle rider, that strikes close to my heart. Somehow, for reasons unknown to me, Harley is the premier status item among motorcycle enthusiasts, and one that you pay a premium to own.
I'm a Yamaha man. All the comfort & amenities at two thirds the cost, plus, I really stand out when I meet up with groups of touring cruisers. Maybe that's just a higher form of snobbery but if so, I'm OK with it. http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=227&d=1299877893
I will never own a Harley because I don't like the whole Harley-clone thing (as I call it because they all dress and look alike), that middle aged, middle management "look at how cool and successful I am" status symbol. In reality I know that's not really how it is, but the whole thing sort of bugs me and, in my anti-snob snobbery, I just don't want to be associated with that group.
I'm not so sure that isn't exactly how it is. I know lots of RUBs (rich urban bikers). They are coming out of the woodwork with this warm weather. I wouldn't care at all if they rode a nice, relatively quiet Yamaha (;)) or even would just get a decent fricking muffler, but nooooo. Notice me, notice me!!!
As a motorcycle rider, that strikes close to my heart. Somehow, for reasons unknown to me, Harley is the premier status item among motorcycle enthusiasts, and one that you pay a premium to own.
I'm a Yamaha man. All the comfort & amenities at two thirds the cost, plus, I really stand out when I meet up with groups of touring cruisers. Maybe that's just a higher form of snobbery but if so, I'm OK with it. http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=227&d=1299877893
Yeah I'm a Yamaha girl myself. OK, really I'm a Ducati girl but those fast, hot Italians are a bit too pricey for me :-)! I think i wouldn't have as much problem with Harleys being a status symbol if they weren't sooooo expensive, and as Gregg said, sooooo loud, and if everyone who rode one actually dressed different from each other. I think it's more the clone-clothes that bug me. I guess the Harley is the over-40-mid-life-crisis sports car of the day ;-)! My step-mom had a harley (and a '69 Triumph) and rode it into her 80's (all 125 lbs of her) but she loved everything Harley - even if it was just riding 5 miles up the road to a local bar to meet up with other Harley riders. Not my thing but I can see how she would enjoy the comradery. No... I'll stick to a Yamaha (or my hot, fast Italian :-)!) But a hot pink Yamaha will do in a pinch! Geeze, looks like a Pepto Bismo ad!
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=727&d=1332531375
I enjoy people who have eclectic individual tastes, but groan inwardly at those who live in fear of being "mainstream."
ETA" Which is not a comment on the motorcycles, about which I know nothing. I like the pink one though.
I enjoy people who have eclectic individual tastes, but groan inwardly at those who live in fear of being "mainstream."
...
Or "middle class," which I have been all my life but disdained in my youth. I once described myself as "pretty mainstream" to a friend and then immediately thought "Who are you kidding." But I really am, in many ways.
iris lily
3-27-12, 12:11am
Or "middle class," which I have been all my life but disdained in my youth. I once described myself as "pretty mainstream" to a friend and then immediately thought "Who are you kidding." But I really am, in many ways.
See, that's me flipped, we are quite mainstream even though I like to think that I'm not.
Holy smokes! So many new entries here. Nice hearing from everyone. Love the insight...
At least you see the irony... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/snoozer/Police.gif
He He - Yeah I get the irony. I'm like that about alot of things - fine wine and foods anti-snob snobbery being one. I get all bent out of shape at the whole wine snobbery thing or the foodie tastings. One of these days I'll hold a "Two Buck Chuck and Little Debbie Snack cakes" wine and food pairing tastings party ;-)!
"Ah, the delicate septic tank bouquet with hints of varnish and turpintine, with a gasous finish on the nose":devil:
I have a pile of Coach bags (the older thicker solid color leather ones). They were all purchased at either garage sales or thrift stores. My hubby thought I needed a selection even though I use one bag until it falls apart and with a Coach bag that could be 15+ years the way I handle them. My current bag has the edges all worn off and is about to be replaced with one from my closet. But I could not care what brand it is just that the leather and style are so heavy duty and timeless.
I wear Clark sandals and have had the same pair for over 5 years. I will go back and see what they have first when I need new ones. They were leather lined and with cork soles. Lovely and comfortable. My price per wear is so much lower with these good shoes.
My raincoat is by Walmart due to price and I have had it for 3+ years. My winter coat is a Dockers bought down the street at a garage sale. It is over 5 years old. I really really hate shopping and having to choose something from racks and racks. Garage sales or thrifts are so much easier for me when dealing with clothes.
Now what is really funny is the fact I own a Bernina sewing machine. Way more than what I truly needed but I love it and its brand. Kind of like having a Mercedes of sewing machines. I buy high end material but at estate or garage sales. I give up choice and work with price and availability.
I have a pile of Coach bags (the older thicker solid color leather ones). They were all purchased at either garage sales or thrift stores. My hubby thought I needed a selection even though I use one bag until it falls apart and with a Coach bag that could be 15+ years the way I handle them. My current bag has the edges all worn off and is about to be replaced with one from my closet. But I could not care what brand it is just that the leather and style are so heavy duty and timeless.
I bought a Coach bag years ago (brown, thick leather). It's been the only bag I've used in seven years. I'm really impressed with the quality. I may actually have it another seven.
What a great thread this is!
P.S. Love the pictures, Spartana!
What a great thread this is!
P.S. Love the pictures, Spartana!
Thanks Mrs. M - can't make them clear though and I'll remove them since they are so blurry (just removed them). Tried some other other motorcycle pictures I have and they come out clear when I post them here but I was dressed...er... somewhat...er....too provacatively for this family site :devil:. Not really just wearing shorts and tank top (yes, I was an idiot when I was younger and rode in shorts - YIKES!) Would never do that now!
One thing that has become somewhat of a status symbol here in SoCal is cosmetic surgury. It's gone from the "dirty hidden little secret you would die of embarrassment if anyone knew" to a "brag about how much you got and how much it cost" kind of thing. While I'm not against any kind of cosmetic surgury if it makes someone feel better about themselves (wouldn't do it myself though), I really dislike the "keeping up with the Jones" (or is that the Kardashians?) aspect of it. It sems to have become a one-upsmanship and status kind of thing as in "look at how well to do I am because I can afford all this plastic surgury".
I bought a Coach bag years ago (brown, thick leather). It's been the only bag I've used in seven years. I'm really impressed with the quality. I may actually have it another seven.
Much to my horror I discovered today that my brand new sunglasses have "Coach est. 1947" emblazoned on the side pieces. I didn't notice this when I pick them out, I just saw the gold design on them. I truly dislike having the brand name on these things. Why did I not notice this, you might ask, before I selected $500 in eyeglasses? Umm, because I somehow don't see labels. Coach is cashing in on their incredible current popularity with these stupid eyeglasses.
Otherwise I love my new sunglasses but I can tell you that their replacement a few years down the road will not be branded.
IshbelRobertson
3-31-12, 5:15am
Re cosmetic surgery - it's making inroads here in Europe, too. There has been a recent scandal with breast implants. Made in France and used throughout Europe, the company had approval for these products. They then got greedy and to cut costs started using the silicon generally used in making mattresses. Results? Thousands of women have had implants rupture and the silicon migrate around their bodies. In the UK, most of the people who had the affected implants paid for them as private patients (ie they would not be considered suitable for the NHS to pay for a purely cosmetic procedure as opposed to those who needed/wanted the procedure after removal of a breast or both breasts for cancer).
The private clinics say they can't afford to remove and then replace the implants free of charge. The NHS say they will fund the removal but not the replacement. It's a huge mess and women are frantic about whether they have one of the PIP implants. My view? If they could scrape the money together to get the procedure done once when they were not in any danger of illhealth, then let them fund the removal and replacement, if they want it done. I don't think the NHS should pick up the tab for their cosmetic procedure(s).
We've also had a few cases of famous actresses have their lips 'plumped'. It results (in some cases) in what we unkindly call a trout pout. Do a google for Leslie Ash plus trout pout if you're interested!
jennipurrr
4-2-12, 12:24pm
I fancy myself immune to the traditional status markers, but I know its not true. Last year I attended an event that was out of my league socially. One of those "who are you wearing" level things. I had recently purchased some very high end bags (all with teeny bits of damage) at the salvage store to resell on ebay. There was one, a Balenciaga bowler bag, current season, that I had huge torn emotions about selling. Its a very well known bag, so people would know exactly what it was and how much it cost retail ($1600!!!). I considered keeping it, wearing it, and selling it after the event. I really didn't like that about myself in that moment...I thought a lot about it...why would I even consider that? It wasn't so much that I wanted to impress anyone, but I wanted them to treat me like an equal.
In the end I sold the bag and I wore a cute silk dress from the thrift store with a simple straw bag (it was summer). I decided if I didn't have the confidence to just be myself, why bother? In the end it totally didn't matter. However, I have no doubt that certain folks would have liked the other bag...but it just wasn't me to create that kind of perception about myself. It wouldn't be real. I was happier to pocket the change and let someone else have that purse!
Good on you, Jennipurrr! I honestly, honestly know the way I am, and I could never attend such an event. Not on the grounds of feeling inferior or anything like that, but on the grounds of knowing how shallow and small-minded so many are who attend such functions/events. It's not that I'd be at all concerned (or worried) about fitting in with them, so much as them not fitting in with me, because I wouldn't allow them to... I can do better, much better.
jennipurr, I'll bet those other people were so wrapped up in themselves, they didn't really care what others were wearing or carrying. How often have you been somewhere and the most popular person there may not have been the best dressed or most attractive, but the most confident?
Remember Sharon Stone and her Gap t-shirt?
Mighty Frugal
4-3-12, 12:02pm
I have to come to these 'very wealthy peoples' defense. Although I am so far from rich I do know some very wealthy people. I know two families that are very close to being billionaires.
And both of these families are kind, generous, down to earth and a lot of fun. Not all rich people are snobs and not worthy of our attention!;)
I also know about a half dozen millionaires and never found any of them to be snobby.
In fact, it is the middle class or almost scratching upper middle class that I have found to be the most 'status seeking'. The ones who you wouldn't find at this high end events. They're the ones at the Coach outlet shops fighting over the best deals:~)
So true Mighty Frugal. Perpetuating any stereotype is wrong and harmful. All rich people... All poor people... All black people... All Jews.... Doesn't really matter how the blank gets filled in at that point.
Simplemind
4-3-12, 12:54pm
Mighty Frugal is spot on.
I just find so many in society nowadays are spending way too much time trying to be everything they're not...
True, Mighty Frugal. It's the "wanna be" people who worry about their status.
My first job was as a receptionist at a country club. The nicest members there were the "old money" types; the not-so-nice were the ones who wanted to look as if they belonged there.
Yes, I'm very much aware of the reverse-snobbism phenom, in my area especially. A lady in front of me at the drug store recently wanted to know if a bakery was open nearby. I mentioned that the Starbucks across the street had baked goods. She wrinkled her nose and said, "I don't patronize Starbucks." Around here they're considered anathema because they're "so corporate..." I felt like a mutant for even suggesting it.
As a couple people have mentioned above, snobbery is present in the things we reject as much as those we chase after. It's important to people to say who they are around the items they select, the clothes they wear, the businesses they will and won't patronize. You can be a snob about beer, knitting, toothpaste, thrifting (and Tide - didn't know that until I saw this thread)!
I try to be above it all, but I'm not! If someone were to give me a Louis Vuitton handbag, I probably wouldn't carry it. I work with some self-described anarchists (they have no irony and no humor) who hate labels and everything they're associated with. I don't identify with their group, but for some reason I still fear their disdain. It's what the Vuitton bag says about me that would make me self-conscious, even if it were a useful and practical bag for my purposes.
I want to avoid the perception that I'm seeking status, because my status would be lower if I appeared to be seeking it in a certain way (in this case, by associating myself with designer labels). So the whole imbroglio around status is still my reference point! It's still controlling me!
In the youth-driven artsy-fartsy environment I'm in right now, other things are statusy - messenger bags that have the names of local record stores on them, hoodies with record label logos on them, stuff that's handmade (or just looks like it), oatmeal made from steel-cut oats, the right kind of organic tea (I can't think what that is right now), Bettie Page bangs, glasses that look like they came from the sixties, etc. So it's not that the people I live among reject status. They just have their own hierarchy. This is human I suppose...
I'm not sure where I am on the spectrum. I sometimes fantasize about going totally generic - just wearing yoga pants and a tee every day. But that might indicate to the world that I'm athletic (I don't actually do yoga). I do like Fendi bags though! I'll consider it a personal triumph if I ever get a hold of one and end up actually using it. I'm a long long way from not caring what people think of me! ;)
Among some, rejection of modern culture is a status issue. That's the point I tried to make earlier. I think it was Redfox who suggested we choose our status totems and points of reference to impress/fit in with our chosen tribe.
ApatheticNoMore
4-9-12, 1:39pm
Should just work somewhere boring and corporate, people really don't care much. The truth is as much as a deride corporate I mostly consider it a lesser evil to have to work for, compared to much else that is out there (not perhaps self-employment but haven't figured out a way to swing that). I have worked a few places where fancy cars and vacations had status.
OK, I have a LV suitcase. It was a gift. At first I was a little uncomfortable with it, but now I use it when I travel. It's a lovely bag, and a good size, and what the heck am I saving it for?
The only people that have ever said a word about my bag are flight attendants -- they must be programmed to notice luggage! I wish one of them would decide that my bag and I deserve a seat in first class. Maybe I need to get a pair of those giant celebrity sunglasses.
Originally posted by Kitten.
You can be a snob about beer, knitting, toothpaste, thrifting (and Tide - didn't know that until I saw this thread)!Until you mentioned it, I can't say I ever gave it much thought, but how right your are. First thing that comes to my mind, bargain brand items/goods.
Ha, go for it!! http://www.simplelivingforum.net/images/smilies/cool0010%5B1%5D.gif
OK, I have a LV suitcase. It was a gift. At first I was a little uncomfortable with it, but now I use it when I travel. It's a lovely bag, and a good size, and what the heck am I saving it for?
The only people that have ever said a word about my bag are flight attendants -- they must be programmed to notice luggage! I wish one of them would decide that my bag and I deserve a seat in first class. Maybe I need to get a pair of those giant celebrity sunglasses.
domestic goddess
4-10-12, 11:54am
There is "status" laundry detergent? Really? Who'd have thunk it??
Not that I don't have my issues with snobbery, because I do, but I just don't understand how some things become recognized as the "in" thing to have. I guess it has to do with groups using products to identify themselves. I can't understand identifying with a cleaning product, though. Beer and wine I have seen used as identifiers, but since no one here drinks, that one isn't an issue. We are a family who is pretty much oblivious to name brand labels, because we have other things to do with our money, but we are snobs in other ways, I'm sure. I know one way in which we express it is in the amount of time and (sometimes) money we spend on the children, and we do tend to look down on adults who spend a lot of time and money on themselves and little on their children. We get looked down upon because we have a smaller home and older cars, but that was our conscious choice. Them's the breaks, and we have our opinions of families who value McMansions, fancy cars and designer duds that they really can't afford, and then deny their children the opportunity to participate in a school activity because there is a $10 fee. To each his own, I guess. I find less of that here in the 'burbs than I actually did in the city, though. This is a very family-oriented place to live.
I think one of the finer things about getting older is that in general one doesn't care so much about these things - at least I don't to the degree I used to. I probably belong in the anti-snob camp though as I don't like labels on my clothes of any kind. But then I don't like bumper stickers either.
Ha, I just realized what I was describing earlier - the reverse snobbism of the anarchist knitter contingent I'm surrounded by in my city. It's hipsterism. They're as materialistic as the rest of us - just about different things.
"First and foremost, hipsterism is about stuff. It’s the natural byproduct of a consumption-obsessed culture with a thriving middle class. The complete works of Johnny Cash on vinyl. An iPhone packed with apps. Thick-framed glasses without the lenses. Throw in an unwavering certainty that your tastes are superior to everyone else’s, and you’re on your way to establishing a hipster aesthetic. Future generations may not have the same resources to squander, but there will undoubtedly continue to be artistically inclined young people who define their identity and their aesthetic, by accumulating meticulously selected possessions." - Robert Lanham, author of The Hipster Handbook
It's from an article in themorningnews.com. I can't link to it because the title has a bad word ;)
ApatheticNoMore
4-10-12, 6:13pm
I thought the hipsters were assuredly in a different category than the anarchists but hey ....
Snobbery of another feather. BTW, i just read somewhere that Seattle and Portland are numbers one and two among top hipster cities. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/yahoo.gif FWIW.
AmeliaJane
4-10-12, 10:45pm
I just moved from the Pacific Northwest to Texas. In both places I have lived in very wealthy neighborhoods (wealthy neighborhood, tiny apartment seems to be my pattern...). It has been fascinating anthropology to compare status markers. Don't let the Northwest hipsters fool you--they have just as many status markers as the Texas rich, although they would claim they're anti-status. Here it is expensive cars, very large houses with pools, and mink coats for the older generation. There it was restored bungalows with a water view, expensive electronics, and fancy outdoor gear. PNWesters get snooty about coffee; Texans get snooty about barbecue. I actually find the Texans less status obsessed, although that may be because I am mostly dealing with an older generation here and I think many people turn loose of some of those attitudes as they age. Everyone goes through dealing with aging parents; wrestling with kids with so-so decisionmaking skills; facing down illness of themselves or a spouse/partner--people have more in common than they do differences, to my mind.
As a long time resident, watching my sleepy college town turn into a BOOM town with folks moving here from every corner of the planet provides some fascinating status-seeking watching. It is like a melting pot of different kinds of "I belong-to this-tribe" behavior. Easy going ways are being replaced by newcomers who don't settle for status quo. As an example, my neighborhood consisted of small bungalows with 1200 sf or less. Every month, another is torn down and rebuilt at 3x the size (usually by someone from California or NE). A carport won't do - it has to have a 3 car garage to house the BMW, Audi and boat.
I just moved from the Pacific Northwest to Texas. In both places I have lived in very wealthy neighborhoods (wealthy neighborhood, tiny apartment seems to be my pattern...). It has been fascinating anthropology to compare status markers. Don't let the Northwest hipsters fool you--they have just as many status markers as the Texas rich, although they would claim they're anti-status. Here it is expensive cars, very large houses with pools, and mink coats for the older generation. There it was restored bungalows with a water view, expensive electronics, and fancy outdoor gear. PNWesters get snooty about coffee; Texans get snooty about barbecue. I actually find the Texans less status obsessed, although that may be because I am mostly dealing with an older generation here and I think many people turn loose of some of those attitudes as they age. Everyone goes through dealing with aging parents; wrestling with kids with so-so decisionmaking skills; facing down illness of themselves or a spouse/partner--people have more in common than they do differences, to my mind.
Having a water view was tops on my short list when I looked for a house up here. Looking back on it, I should have made a longer list. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/fool2.gif
Texans get snooty about barbecue.
Try being married to a Memphian.... talk about BBQ snobbery!!!
OMG, yeah, I love PDX because it's my hometown, but I'm not really into the alt music scene, or tattoo art, or rockabilly attire, or whatever it is that makes it a magnet for hipsters all over the country. (Still trying to figure it out, lol)
Portlandia is a big thing among Portland hipsters who love...themselves ;)
Snobbery of another feather. BTW, i just read somewhere that Seattle and Portland are numbers one and two among top hipster cities. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/yahoo.gif FWIW.
Apathetic, you're right - the problem with labeling yourself too rigidly I think, is that it's way too easy to slip and mess up! And it's bound to happen! The self-described anarchist I mentioned is a co-worker of mine. So - she works, and she collects a paycheck. Hence - she's not an anarchist. But she insists on the label! Go figure.
My other co-worker, who is fascinated in a sort of odd way with her, claims he weaseled out her definition of anarchy. Turns out that she defines an anarchist as a person who is disenchanted with both political parties, and who often doesn't vote.
And if that's true, I'm an anarchist too! Whaddya know...LOL
I thought the hipsters were assuredly in a different category than the anarchists but hey ....
Turns out that she defines an anarchist as a person who is disenchanted with both political parties, and who often doesn't vote.
Wow. Better duck if she starts swinging that monkey wrench around!
Yeah. I really wish I could just climb a hill and feel the sun on my skin and stare at the ocean all day, and not have to deal with my co-workers.ever.again. Are there any jobs like that? lol
Wow. Better duck if she starts swinging that monkey wrench around!
Yeah. I really wish I could just climb a hill and feel the sun on my skin and stare at the ocean all day, and not have to deal with my co-workers.ever.again. Are there any jobs like that? lol
Lighthouse keeper? I had a relative (purportedly) who had such a job and I imagine we could be kindred spirits.
Lighthouse keeper? I had a relative (purportedly) who had such a job and I imagine we could be kindred spirits.
Nah, you gotta work polishing that light all day and night. And changing the bulbs. And that incessant fog horn 24/7- UGH! Not too peaceful :-)! Two CG small boat stations I was stationed at had lighthouses (Oak Island, NC had one ligh and one 30 miles off-shore on a platform and New Orleans, LA) and maintaining (and listening) to those things is a pain. I'd recommend a good government job - all the donuts and naps you could want :-)!
I've had two government jobs--state and county--and both were more rigorous than my private sector job. Also, i don't mind foghorns... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/snoozer/pirate.gif
Yeah. I really wish I could just climb a hill and feel the sun on my skin and stare at the ocean all day, and not have to deal with my co-workers.ever.again. Are there any jobs like that? lol
I had a friend who made his living taking tourists deep sea fishing in Puerto Vallarta. He said it was a pretty sweet gig.
I've had two government jobs--state and county--and both were more rigorous than my private sector job. Also, i don't mind foghorns... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/snoozer/pirate.gif
Jane - you win for finding the cutest emoticon EVER!!! Love it. ARRRRRR!
I've had two government jobs--state and county--and both were more rigorous than my private sector job. Also, i don't mind foghorns... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/snoozer/pirate.gif
I also had two government jobs - fed and state - and the state one was sooooo easy compared to the CG (fed job - is that a fed job? er...sort of I guess). Yes I love the sound of fog horns but after listening to them incessantly I went insane - just like everyone else did :-)!
It was only when I went to wash my new $4.80 scarf that I noticed a label: Juanita Girardin. The scarf is lovely--black with various multicolored stripes and designs and hand-knotted fringe. Turns out Girardin is an award-winning fiber artist with a gallery presence, and articles in Ornament and elsewhere. The price of her work is apparently a closely-guarded secret, but my fashion status http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/light_skin/crazy.gif surely soared by just owning one of her limited-edition pieces. I plan to hoard it.
ETA: According to sales at The Real Mother Goose gallery in Portland (which is a treat to visit!) her scarves go for $!85. I really should get back to eBaying.
iris lily
4-20-12, 12:16am
Jane, that is nice, hope you enjoy it!
When we lived in a stick and brick home, we fell into the Suburbia Living - bought stuff to fill the brand new home that was built from the dirt up. When I started moving away from that was around 2000, or a little before, when I first read YMOYL and read Tightwad Gazette. I was unhappy in my job and ultimately moved to a new career.
But that career meant getting dressed up, hair color, makeup, computers, cameras, cell phone etc. I went into computer training where I had to be in front of people all the time - and these folks were Realtors - probably the highest "status or Snobs" around. Even when I had my own business, I was still wearing the suits for quite a while.
But then, in 2005, DH and I figured we needed a little change. He was getting sick of the industry he was in, and we ended up buying a Truck Camper to take on trips. We needed a truck to haul the camper, and bought one. It ended up being part of the reason we wanted to get out of suburbia.
The truck could not fit into the garage! It was too big. Could not put it on the driveway because they made the driveway too short. We had to put it on the street, and when we did so, the postman became pissed because we would not give enough room around the mailbox (needed four (4) feet all the way around!!!) for each one. So we got a post office box and parked in front of our mailbox.
But when we would go on trips, we would get looks for having our camper out in front. We got notices on our truck stating that we could only have the camper out for 24 hours - we said screw you.
We did not have kids, like all of the neighbors did. They had bought such an expensive house, they could not do landscaping, or decks, or furniture.
We sold our house in 2007, and moved into our Truck Camper. Status - went way down. But we were living rent free (volunteering at a National Park). We were saving hand over fist.
The real benefit, DH was able to retire from his job at age 52. How many of the folks that we lived near can say that? Not many.
While I still work and probably will for a while, I work in a National Park during the summer and we volunteer during the winter. It is a great lifestyle. We have a different RV, fully paid for and a different truck, again fully paid for, that would not have worked in Suburbia. But when we go out now, it looks so good we get good looks :)
Thankfully we are around folks now that really do not have things that are "status symbols" they have just worked at cool parks (although I believe I have some serious cache right now, working at Grand Canyon National Park!)
But being an RVer - there are folks that can be snobby about the kind of RV they have, thankfully we do not hang around them, they are mostly at RV parks, not working and volunteering at National Parks.
…..I pity the people who are competing for status, to me it seems to be lose/lose for most and perhaps a quick way to a heart attack or some kind of health issues.....Rob
I was talking to my DH about this thread, and he suggested the book Luxury Fever. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691146934/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=lauransashaco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0691146934]Luxury Fever: Weighing the Cost of Excess
"The turn of the twenty-first century witnessed a spectacular rise in gross consumption. With the super-rich setting the pace, everyone spent furiously in a desperate attempt to keep up. As cars and houses grew larger and more expensive, the costs were enormous--not only monetarily but also socially. Consumers spent more time at work and less time with their family and friends; they saved less money and borrowed more.
In this book, Robert Frank presents the first comprehensive and accessible account of these financial choices. Frank uses scientific evidence to demonstrate how these spending patterns have not made us happier or healthier. Luxury Fever offers an exit from the rat race, suggesting ways to curb the culture of excess and restore true value to our lives."
I have the anti-snob snobbery (reverse snobbery) thing. It's making a conscious effort to not belong to a group that has a certain status attached to it. Take motorcycles for instance (which I have owned in the past and am contemplating getting again). I will never own a Harley because I don't like the whole Harley-clone thing (as I call it because they all dress and look alike), that middle aged, middle management "look at how cool and successful I am" status symbol. In reality I know that's not really how it is, but the whole thing sort of bugs me and, in my anti-snob snobbery, I just don't want to be associated with that group. Same with other things too - I make a conscious effort not to belong (or own, use, participate) in things that lend a certain "status" to people. That is snobbery in and of itself, although (in my anti-snob snobbery way) I like to call it rebellion against the status quo ;-)!
DH has a Suzuki DR650 Dual Sport and I have a Zuma 125 (which needs the motorcycle license). Of course, he managed to trick (or FARKLEd it up - Fancy Accessories Really Kool Likely Expensive.) I told him that he could not get a BMW, so he FARKLEd up his bike.
Motorcyclists vs bikers
Motorcyclists wear full gear vs bikers wearing shorts or cut off shirts
Motorcyclists are quiet vs bikers who are not
Motorcyclists don't look like middle-aged pirates while bikers do
Motorcyclists can ride dirt while bikers can not
I consider myself a motorcyclist like my husband. I can ride the dirt too.
Yeah. I really wish I could just climb a hill and feel the sun on my skin and stare at the ocean all day, and not have to deal with my co-workers.ever.again. Are there any jobs like that? lol
Actually, I worked at Cape Hatteras National Seashore as a park ranger. I climbed the lighthouse every day (talk about strong legs!) I wore a NPS uniform, but that meant shorts in the summertime, and we were close to the beach. They always have openings, try for it next year! Although I would suggest Bodie or Ocracoke as there is not as many people. This is in North Carolina. $15 an hour. work for 6 months.
Wow, Ljevtich! Awesome post! Re: early-retirement... it's everyone's dream, isn't it, but so few actually get to ever live it. You guys enjoy!
iris lily
5-31-12, 10:45am
I am running a charity sale for our neighborhood organization. People are donating their stuff and I will put it in our antiques/collectibles booth. The problem is, as I knew it would be, in pricing. It's a class marker when people think silverplate ANYTHING is worth something (unless it is cool old Victorian stuff.)
I had great success at this same sale two years ago when I made $800 from stuff around our house. I priced it to get rid of it and I was successful. And, I sold all of the silverplate peices I wanted to be rid of because I priced them all under $12.00 with exceptions for a silver coffee pot and tea set. And now my friend has that silly tea set sitting on her buffet and I can go visit it.
The convention of a silverplate tea set in the DR is eminently bourgeoisie. Look on ebay, hundreds go unsold each month.
I just picked up a box of silverplate thingies including a pretty meat tray, but I fear that the owners, who want a report on the sale price for tax purposes, are thinking $50 - $100 and I suspect it will go for under $20.
So right you are Re: silver-plate stuff, Iris.
I have friends who decorate with various silver plate bibelots in unexpected ways--often with candles to maximize the twinkle, so it may not be the traditional tea set look they're going for. Even so, I remember the silver on the sideboard look from my youth, fondly.
I have friends who decorate with various silver plate bibelots in unexpected ways--often with candles to maximize the twinkle, so it may not be the traditional tea set look they're going for. Even so, I remember the silver on the sideboard look from my youth, fondly.
I know, I DO like the stuff and try to use it if I actually have it. I have a collection of chargers and use them for various things. But any more it's just the chargers and a big old ornate tray that my mother had, I love that thing. Minimal polishing now.
We have the standard, gaudy, tinny silver-plate tea service that has never been used. We also have a full sterling 72 piece dinnerware service for 12 plus several sterling serving pieces. It is heavy, valuable and ugly as a dog's butt. All that stuff belonged to DW's grandmother so we drag it around. I suggested selling all of it and buying a new dinnerware service (sterling or not) that we would consider beautiful and so might actually use. Her grandma would think we were stupid for hanging on to the dust collectors for so long. DW has a different opinion.
Originally posted by Gregg.
We also have a full sterling 72 piece dinnerware service for 12 plus several sterling serving pieces.Sounds nice. Sterling, is my weakness, especially larger pieces, and old Sterling Tea Service Sets bring me to my knees.
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