View Full Version : Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012
Oh I'm certain that peggy is correct as always, librarians just checking out books, that hardly requires advanced education. Learn the job in 2 years? I'd think 2 hours.
Professional librarians generally serve in a management capacity or in program development or collection development positions involving complex balancing acts involving huge budgets (our materials budget alone was over $15M in 1995), community needs, technology systems, educational needs, collection management, working with city/county administrators, and other things. Our collection development team included specialists in childrens, adults and teens needs, for instance, to direct balanced collections that met the public desire for popular works, the needs of the school systems, and providing general information on a broad spectrum to fulfill the mission of public libraries. I worked in a multi-county library system at the headquarters for nearly a decade: trust me, the degreed librarians used their advanced education for the most part. There was a vast difference between the abilities/roles of the few small-library heads who had come up through the ranks as library workers, and the degreed librarians. (Of course, there's a bit of snootiness in there as well, duh!)
I am unconvinced most of them have prospects with retraining. I mean retraining makes sense if you are in a job in a field that very specifically went under far more than the rest of the economy. You were a real estate agent or something involved in home building maybe. That bubble probably isn't coming back. Or maybe you were in some type of manufacturing that is never coming back to this country. Then yes .... you need to retrain, it's rational, it's basic, change fields.
But retraining is often seen as some kind of fix for an unemployment that is not just caused by certain fields going away (horse and buggies going away say) but is rather part of the whole economy. And it's not. ALL jobs almost across the board have less openings. If you had a perfectly good job before, and one that isn't disproportionally affected, and you can't get rehired, training for another perfectly good job is not necessarily going to solve your problems. That's just nonsense that is preached at people told to "retrain ...". And you know it's tempting nonsense, because school is both fun (for me) and takes some work, and it feels like you are DOING SOMETHING (rather than just sending in resumes that don't get answers which can start to feel like doing nothing). But ... I mean I guess you slightly improve your odds if you are applying in two different fields (in which you can jobs in neither?), but retraining is not the answer to everyone's problems.
I can't even get a job in my old field in most cases without additional schooling, due to new requirements for a degree. If you have to change fields regardless of the reason, you pretty much have to have some degree of training or education, especially when you're competing with people younger than your kids. In my case, the only field that makes sense for me is in some kind of graphic arts, and without training in both the field and the software, I'm stuck. When you read: Drupal, required; Photoshop, required; Illustrator, required; InDesign, required; Dreamweaver, required; XML, required... plus Wordpress, preferred; CMS systems, preferred... and are presented with a checklist requiring you to check off your proficiency level on each before you can even submit your application (and yes, you'll be rejected if you don't meet minimum requirements), you're stuck if you're still going, "Drupal, what's that? Dreamweaver, is that a game?" Some retraining is just a shell game, but I'm finding it a terrible handicap not to have it, especially at my age. Word to the wise: don't lose your job after you become a grandparent. It is SO not fun.
I zipped back thru the thread, so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. You are 25, make 24k, have $150K +/- in student loan debt, are reasonably healthy, just lost your 2nd job, and would like to get married. I'll be honest, don't know exactly how you got where you are, but wouldn't want to be in your shoes. I feel for you being in this position, but you have options.
Options, at least one of these is applicable to you, include a) higher paying job - This may require moving or doing something unpleasant b) Join the military, I understand they have debt foregiveness programs c) Take a govt job that offers some sort of debt foregiveness d) I would suggest lowering your expenses, but you can't have many at $25k a year.
The point is, you have options whether you realize it or not.
A) Midwest if there were higher paying jobs i could get, i wouldnt care what i did. I would honestly clean **** all day for 80k.lol. b) They wouldnt forgive all of my loans plus nahhh.. fight for what? c) i would love too if i could find one.. i have normal expenses. The only one that isnt normal is my fiances ring which is 273 a month and ends aug.
I feel like kind of a chump now for holding off getting married and having children until I was in my 30's, so that my wife and I could pay off our college loans, establish our jobs and income, and be able to afford a stable living situation. And to be able to pay for our engagement ring in cash....
We should just issue a Prius, a house, and 5 years of college expenses to every graduating high school senior. Free health insurance, Internet, and cell phones too. Just print up the money, what could go wrong?
A) Midwest if there were higher paying jobs i could get, i wouldnt care what i did. I would honestly clean **** all day for 80k.lol. b) They wouldnt forgive all of my loans plus nahhh.. fight for what? c) i would love too if i could find one.. i have normal expenses. The only one that isnt normal is my fiances ring which is 273 a month and ends aug.
I assure you, you can find a job that pays more than $24k. The oil fields in in the plains states are hiring. It may be worse than cleaning ****, though.
My wife wears a $300 ring I bought her with cash earned on Christmas break job in college. I'm not telling you that your fiancee doesn't deserve a nice ring, but you owe $150,000 and I have no urge to pay for your fiance's ring. Effectively, that is what you are asking the us to do when you advocate for loan foregiveness and spend substantial sums that could help repay your debt.
Recently I had a meeting with a wonderful couple. They are in a financial bind mainly because a small child died after a prolonged illness. On top of that, one of the couple had recently lost their job and had gotten another at 1/3 of the old. They made a comment that really stuck with me, "it's time to stop feeling like a victim." If anybody has a right to feel like a victim, they do.
I assure you, you can find a job that pays more than $24k. The oil fields in in the plains states are hiring. It may be worse than cleaning ****, though.
My wife wears a $300 ring I bought her with cash earned on Christmas break job in college. I'm not telling you that your fiancee doesn't deserve a nice ring, but you owe $150,000 and I have no urge to pay for your fiance's ring. Effectively, that is what you are asking the us to do when you advocate for loan foregiveness and spend substantial sums that could help repay your debt.
Recently I had a meeting with a wonderful couple. They are in a financial bind mainly because a small child died after a prolonged illness. On top of that, one of the couple had recently lost their job and had gotten another at 1/3 of the old. They made a comment that really stuck with me, "it's time to stop feeling like a victim." If anybody has a right to feel like a victim, they do.
i live in delaware.. lol. whre are there oil fields over here.
I assure you, you can find a job that pays more than $24k. The oil fields in in the plains states are hiring. It may be worse than cleaning ****, though.
Around here, if you are reliable and honest, you can land jobs gardening or housecleaning for $20-$25/hour, which is mostly a cash business as I understand it. That's $40k-$50k/year, if you work a normal work week, and there's more work than that available.
If you can offer skilled, reliable work in any of the construction trades, you can pull in $35-$50/hour here.
If my funds run dry, I'm opening up a small electrical contracting business, and the living will be fine.
Those jobs though don't just knock at your door, you have to make connections, prove yourself, and market. Which seems to be a lot of trouble for some folks to deal with.
i live in delaware.. lol. whre are there oil fields over here.
If the jobs aren't in Delaware, maybe you shouldn't be either. Oil field jobs (as of 8/11) were here http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/morning_roundup/2011/08/halliburton-jobs-north-dakota-oil.html
Incidentally, I'm not approaching this moving thing lightly. My first post college job was in my home town. Bought a house, lived near my family, it was great, except my job was unstable. I moved to a larger town, commuted for a year and half until I sold my house. It wasn't pleasant, but I did what I had to do.
I assure you, you can find a job that pays more than $24k. The oil fields in in the plains states are hiring. It may be worse than cleaning ****, though.
My wife wears a $300 ring I bought her with cash earned on Christmas break job in college. I'm not telling you that your fiancee doesn't deserve a nice ring, but you owe $150,000 and I have no urge to pay for your fiance's ring. Effectively, that is what you are asking the us to do when you advocate for loan foregiveness and spend substantial sums that could help repay your debt.
Recently I had a meeting with a wonderful couple. They are in a financial bind mainly because a small child died after a prolonged illness. On top of that, one of the couple had recently lost their job and had gotten another at 1/3 of the old. They made a comment that really stuck with me, "it's time to stop feeling like a victim." If anybody has a right to feel like a victim, they do.
sallie mae is asking for 2200 a month. i make 2000 a month. Anything short of what they want is going to just waste away in intertest.. and though that is sad..that shouldnt be the only time u feel for someone .. their are ppl that come from bad neighborhoods that are told you have to do this and this to get here... here is college... and they have no one to pay for their education. People are told every day that you need a degree to be someone.. so what else are they to do?
If the jobs aren't in Delaware, maybe you shouldn't be either. Oil field jobs (as of 8/11) were here http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/morning_roundup/2011/08/halliburton-jobs-north-dakota-oil.html
Incidentally, I'm not approaching this moving thing lightly. My first post college job was in my home town. Bought a house, lived near my family, it was great, except my job was unstable. I moved to a larger town, commuted for a year and half until I sold my house. It wasn't pleasant, but I did what I had to do.
i live with my parents.. i just can t tell them to up and move.. its not that easy.
sallie mae is asking for 2200 a month. i make 2000 a month. Anything short of what they want is going to just waste away in intertest.. and though that is sad..that shouldnt be the only time u feel for someone .. their are ppl that come from bad neighborhoods that are told you have to do this and this to get here... here is college... and they have no one to pay for their education. People are told every day that you need a degree to be someone.. so what else are they to do?
I don't come from a wealthy background and my father was dead by the time I was twelve. So it's not like I was counseled by the blue bloods on finances and career paths.
Obviously if you have $100k+ in debt, you need to make more than $24k a year to repay it.
My suggestion, you can choose to listen or not, is to do something that allows you to move into a position that will allow you to make more money. It sounds like it may involve moving. It will probably involve working significantly more than 40 hours a week. You can either wait for something to happen or make it happen.
You are 25 years old with a college degree, no kids and a low wage job. What's the risk of failure? Take a sales job. Move to the oil fields. Have a plan and execute it. Anything is better than waiting for a bailout.
I don't come from a wealthy background and my father was dead by the time I was twelve. So it's not like I was counseled by the blue bloods on finances and career paths.
Obviously if you have $100k+ in debt, you need to make more than $24k a year to repay it.
My suggestion, you can choose to listen or not, is to do something that allows you to move into a position that will allow you to make more money. It sounds like it may involve moving. It will probably involve working significantly more than 40 hours a week. You can either wait for something to happen or make it happen.
You are 25 years old with a college degree, no kids and a low wage job. What's the risk of failure? Take a sales job. Move to the oil fields. Have a plan and execute it. Anything is better than waiting for a bailout.
i understand your point.. its just the things your telling me involve money before hand and i have no way of getting money to make those moves.
i understand your point.. its just the things your telling me involve money before hand and i have no way of getting money to make those moves.
It's time to figure out a way.
I put up roadblocks myself sometimes. We all do.
None of these problems are insurmountable. It just feels that way.
Well, I think that we've already talked about these loans (federal anyway) being paid by tax payers, and that perhaps moving to a civil service and/or grant system would be viable. Because we already feel that it is viable, because we already have options for it. Most everyone can agree that if we expanded those options, we wouldn't mind people getting money for school.
I think if we started with forgiveness with a cap (end date) and just opted to treat it like a grant system (using our savings from not spending money in other places such as the war effort), and then continuing to use that as a sort of 'seed money' while expanding the civil service programs available to those who would go to school, then we'll be in good shape over the long term. I'm not too fussed about the idea of providing for people.
Heck, even make it a loan system that has the current processes for federal loans, and then make it tough for private loans to be granted.
In 2011, there was a bill to turn over the inability to discharge private student loan debt in bankruptcy (a change that occurred in 2005 -- so even this ability to not discharge the debt in bankruptcy is *new*), which apparently hasn't gotten very far at this point (source (http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/student-loan-ranger/2011/06/22/congress-proposes-relief-for-student-loan-borrowers)).
By putting these back into the bankruptcy law, it is likely that private loans would be harder to come by because banks would be loathe to lend on something that doesn't have actual collateral. And, I think it's viable to put some thoughtful controls on loans -- ie, not giving them at all (not necessarily government, I'm just musing on austrian economics again, since I was sent another great article today about it).
. . . .
now i'm thinking about something else. things at the business are going very well -- except that i got a bad estimate on the haul-away from the reno, and now I have to pay 4 times what I was quoted. Really frickin annoying. LOL
i understand your point.. its just the things your telling me involve money before hand and i have no way of getting money to make those moves.
When my wife and I graduated from college, we moved from the East Coast to Silicon Valley. We both had college debt. I had the promise of "a possible position", my wife had nothing at all lined up, and a degree in religion... We had no money to speak of. We drove across the country in a rented U-Haul with our dorm possessions, and those of about a dozen friends who were also moving to the area. We were so broke when we arrived that we had to scrounge for pocket change to get across the Bay Bridge.
We rented a home with 10 other graduating students, and lived dorm-style for about 9 months. Our share of the deposit/rent came from being paid by the others for moving their stuff over.
Somehow it all worked out, probably because we made it work.
When my wife and I graduated from college, we moved from the East Coast to Silicon Valley. We both had college debt. I had the promise of "a possible position", my wife had nothing at all lined up, and a degree in religion... We had no money to speak of. We drove across the country in a rented U-Haul with our dorm possessions, and those of about a dozen friends who were also moving to the area. We were so broke when we arrived that we had to scrounge for pocket change to get across the Bay Bridge.
We rented a home with 10 other graduating students, and lived dorm-style for about 9 months. Our share of the deposit/rent came from being paid by the others for moving their stuff over.
Somehow it all worked out, probably because we made it work.
how much did you guys end up owing?
how much did you guys end up owing?
My wife owed about $45k, I owed a bit less. In 1980s dollars. And we were piling up about $10k/year of credit card debt the first couple of years as well. At 1980s 18%-21% rates...
My starting salary at a good engineering job where I had to put in 60 hour weeks was $24k/year when I finally landed a spot. My wife found a job after about a month of looking that paid $7.50/hour.
I was driving at the time a 17-year old car with 250k miles on it, held together with duct tape and baling wire. The electrical system was at that point a homebrew of workarounds I had installed. To start the car, you had to pop the hood and hotwire it.
A few years later, my wife went to law school, so that was 3 years without her income, and with the expenses of law school on top.
That question so far has gone unanswered in any kind of direct sense (although we all know the answer, don't we?). Perhaps China will simply forgive the US debt that it holds so the sun may shine again.
I draw political cartoons for fun and I did one that had two very fat chinese kids and a very fat chinese parent sitting in front of giant cheese burgers labeled "US debt". The chinese mom was saying "Clean your plate kids, don't you know there are starving children in the USA". In the background was a very emaciated Uncle Sam holding out an empty bowl labelled "bailout funds" and saying "Please Sir, may I have some more".
Under "paths not taken", about two years after I graduated, I was slowly restoring an old British car myself, our second vehicle, also a paragon of reliability and design. I was doing a fair bit of the work at a shop space at a decent European auto repair place, run by a grand old gentleman. In exchange for the space, his advice, and access to his yard of wrecked parts cars, I did work around the shop for him. I learned *a lot* from this fellow.
He eventually offered me a job working full-time, doing restoration work, for ~$60k/year. I was earning ~$30k/year doing engineering work at the time. And he made it clear to me he was interested in retiring in a few years, his son wasn't interested in the business, and he was looking to groom someone to take over.
Looking back, that would have worked out just fine all around. And no college degree needed.
Does 14.5% "feel" right to you for a mortgage? What about 16%? That's what interest rates were when I was first house shopping back in the day.
Ah the 1980's :-)! When mortgage rates hit over 15% in some cases - even the prime rate banks charged was over 15% in 1980 - meaning ALL loans would be much higher. Of course it was a great time to have money in savings! And of course lets not forget the over 10% unemployment rate overall and over 25% in certain manufacturing segments of the nation, the high oil prices (and in the 1970's too), the collapse of the auto, defense and aerospace markets, as well as many other such things like unbelievablily high inflation rate and wild price gouging for everything. And well... it was just a sunny fun time all around for everyone ;-)!.
I do have to agree with bae and midwest about moving.
It is possible, even on the smallest amount of money. To be honest, all you need to take with you is your clothing, some linens and your car. If you can scrounge together enough money for gas, you should be ok. You can sleep in your car at truck stops -- and they have showers there too -- so it might be worth your while.
Here is a plan that I would take on *right now* if I were you:
1. get the federal loans situated
sallie mae should not be asking that much -- you should be able to qualify for the various hardship options that have been linked in prior posts. in doing some research on this topic, after they determine your income (via taxes) which would determine your payment, there is also a cap on how high that payment can be -- which is $400. Since your payment is 5+ times that, it seems to me that you haven't looked into this option closely or talked to anyone about getting this situated.
2. get your private loans situated
i would look at that cedar lending site (http://www.cedarlending.com) about their loan consolidation programs. yes, they will likely require a cosigner -- but they do have the option of having that co-signer released at the end of a year, when 12 payments have been made.
in this situation, I would talk to my parents about backing that payment for 1 year (meaning that if you miss one, or can't make the payment, they will), so that they can be released at the end of that year. Be sure to ask the lender about this.
This could get you a very good fixed interest rate below 10% (in many cases, below 8%), and also get you a longer term (i think that some of the terms go to 25 or 30 years for the higher amounts). This might make a more viable payment.
Be certain that you can pay off early without penalty as well -- all of these can be in the negotiation process, and don't sign anything until you understand everything!
3. pay off the debt for the ring, then save that money --
When you get that $200-odd back, you could use this as "seed money" to move. Perhaps you'll need 3 months worth -- I don't know. You may need less. But, that gives you some time to consider your options, research where jobs are in other areas.
4. look for jobs near and far -- cast a wide net outside of your field, into areas that you think you can do
I just did a quick internet search and there are over 500 full-time positions available in the state of Nebraska, as well as another 600 in North Dakota. Most of them are white-collar jobs, too -- not necessarily working in oil fields or other labor-intensive jobs.
You might consider certain companies that you might think are good to work for. My husband worked for Fiserv (http://www.fiserv.com) before we moved here -- and they are a very large company indeed (his company was in PA -- Valley Forge area -- so even close to where you live, though I'm assuming northern DE, not southern obviously!). There are currently 15 job openings (http://www.fiserv.com/about/careers.htm) available in that area with that company. I don't know if you are qualified to do any of those jobs, but who knows? Worth a look, anyway. That same company has 19 openings in South Dakota.
I'm just tossing out ideas, you know?
All of that being said. . .
Yes, it is difficult.
According to various sources, only 56% of recent graduates are employed, and most are under employed (meaning that they aren't working up to their educational level or aren't working full time -- or both). In addition, the job market itself *isn't* great -- this is very true. And, moving to a place where you don't have any contacts to try to get a job as a cleaning person isn't exactly that great of a plan (particularly when you could probably get work where you are as a cleaning person or in garden/grounds keeping, etc).
And of course, the economy itself isn't great, as the unemployment ratio -- basically the number of people not working but no longer counted in the unemployment rate -- is higher than it has been in a long time. A lot of people are competing for the same jobs.
And, we also know that non-white young men have a particularly difficult time of it due to institutional racism (even though no one wants to say it exists, it exists). And so if you are a non-white young man, it's going to be even harder anyway -- no matter how good you are at what you do.
So, the reality is that it's likely not going to be easy, but I do believe that you can do it.
And I hope that you do quickly. I feel like I ended up in a bit of a mess because I wasn't paying attention to certain things. Luckily, you are here with us and we have links and ideas for you, options and opportunities, things to think about and try and check out.
Honestly, it is possible for all of this to come under control. It really is. It will just take a lot of hard work right now. And since you don't have that part time job, THIS can be come your part time job until you get another one.
You can do it. You did get yourself through school -- and you can get yourself out of this mess too. I do believe you can.
I have several 'paths not taken' too, bae.
Here are the two that really upset me still:
1. not joining the peace corps right after university --
I had no student debt then, and I wanted to join the peace corps. After going through intake and such, they thought that I would be a good fit in europe. My husband absolutely refused and the very idea freaked him out. I have no clue why, but he was completely freaked by it.
Now, he's like "Why didn't we join the peace corps?"
And I say "because you were an idiot."
2. not taking the government job in montana right after law school --
I was ready to go, and the deal was *mighty fine*:
A. starting pay of $55k plus benefits
B. in my field (environmental law)
C. pay off all federal student loans in 5 years (if I worked for them for 5 years);
D. no court-room related work if I didn't want it (I didn't -- even though I could litigate, I didn't prefer it);
E. housing provided for the first 6 months;
F. moving costs covered as well.
With that income and DH working too -- we would have paid off all the debt in 5 years, had money in savings, and been able to go anywhere (and/or have kids by age 27). And, I could have taught yoga part time because the hours in the office were good and a lot of teachers do that anyway -- teach evenings and weekends.
Why didn't I insist?
Oh right, because I'm an idiot too!
It doesn't make me sick that i cant pay it back. I am not happy about it, but not being able to pay some bs student loans that were rigged in the beginning... na.. I feel sick for the homeless, and the poor and the diseased.
If you make an annual salary of $24K I would imagine you could live fairly frugal, share rentals (and I think you said you live with your parents), etc... and have plenty of money left over to pay towards your student loans. Even if that debt lasts a lifetime because you choose to pay only a small amount each month and extend it out forever, it still should be doable on even a small salary. And of course a second job or other way to earn extra income is what most of us have done to get free of debts.
Now, he's all like "why didn't we join the peace corps again?" And I'm like "because you were an idiot."
For some reason I pictured that exchange done as a Fawlty Towers episode, and almost had to buy a new keyboard :-)
Montana was on our top-5 list when we ended up here too. The lack of an ocean harmed it in the polls, my contention that Flathead Lake was "sort of" an ocean didn't gain much traction with the voters.
I do have to agree with bae and midwest about moving.
It is possible, even on the smallest amount of money. To be honest, all you need to take with you is your clothing, some linens and your car. If you can scrounge together enough money for gas, you should be ok. You can sleep in your car at truck stops -- and they have showers there too -- so it might be worth your while.
Here is a plan that I would take on *right now* if I were you:
1. get the federal loans situated
sallie mae should not be asking that much -- you should be able to qualify for the various hardship options that have been linked in prior posts. in doing some research on this topic, after they determine your income (via taxes) which would determine your payment, there is also a cap on how high that payment can be -- which is $400. Since your payment is 5+ times that, it seems to me that you haven't looked into this option closely or talked to anyone about getting this situated.
2. get your private loans situated
i would look at that cedar lending site (http://www.cedarlending.com) about their loan consolidation programs. yes, they will likely require a cosigner -- but they do have the option of having that co-signer released at the end of a year, when 12 payments have been made.
in this situation, I would talk to my parents about backing that payment for 1 year (meaning that if you miss one, or can't make the payment, they will), so that they can be released at the end of that year. Be sure to ask the lender about this.
This could get you a very good fixed interest rate below 10% (in many cases, below 8%), and also get you a longer term (i think that some of the terms go to 25 or 30 years for the higher amounts). This might make a more viable payment.
Be certain that you can pay off early without penalty as well -- all of these can be in the negotiation process, and don't sign anything until you understand everything!
3. pay off the debt for the ring, then save that money --
When you get that $200-odd back, you could use this as "seed money" to move. Perhaps you'll need 3 months worth -- I don't know. You may need less. But, that gives you some time to consider your options, research where jobs are in other areas.
4. look for jobs near and far -- cast a wide net outside of your field, into areas that you think you can do
I just did a quick internet search and there are over 500 full-time positions available in the state of Nebraska, as well as another 600 in North Dakota. Most of them are white-collar jobs, too -- not necessarily working in oil fields or other labor-intensive jobs.
You might consider certain companies that you might think are good to work for. My husband worked for Fiserv (http://www.fiserv.com) before we moved here -- and they are a very large company indeed (his company was in PA -- Valley Forge area -- so even close to where you live, though I'm assuming northern DE, not southern obviously!). There are currently 15 job openings (http://www.fiserv.com/about/careers.htm) available in that area with that company. I don't know if you are qualified to do any of those jobs, but who knows? Worth a look, anyway. That same company has 19 openings in South Dakota.
I'm just tossing out ideas, you know?
All of that being said. . .
Yes, it is difficult.
According to various sources, only 56% of recent graduates are employed, and most are under employed (meaning that they aren't working up to their educational level or aren't working full time -- or both). In addition, the job market itself *isn't* great -- this is very true. And, moving to a place where you don't have any contacts to try to get a job as a cleaning person isn't exactly that great of a plan (particularly when you could probably get work where you are as a cleaning person or in garden/grounds keeping, etc).
And of course, the economy itself isn't great, as the unemployment ratio -- basically the number of people not working but no longer counted in the unemployment rate -- is higher than it has been in a long time. A lot of people are competing for the same jobs.
And, we also know that non-white young men have a particularly difficult time of it due to institutional racism (even though no one wants to say it exists, it exists). And so if you are a non-white young man, it's going to be even harder anyway -- no matter how good you are at what you do.
So, the reality is that it's likely not going to be easy, but I do believe that you can do it.
And I hope that you do quickly. I feel like I ended up in a bit of a mess because I wasn't paying attention to certain things. Luckily, you are here with us and we have links and ideas for you, options and opportunities, things to think about and try and check out.
Honestly, it is possible for all of this to come under control. It really is. It will just take a lot of hard work right now. And since you don't have that part time job, THIS can be come your part time job until you get another one.
You can do it. You did get yourself through school -- and you can get yourself out of this mess too. I do believe you can.
thanks zoebird. you do have a nice plan..i just dont have the opinion to follow that.. I kinda cant just quit my job because no one will pay for my car or insurance.. no one will be able to help my mom if i leave..my finace isnt leaving her mom neither.. so thats not happening.. I have no one to co-sign those loans because my family doesnt have good credit. And i checked on those sites... most of them need a co-signer whos income combined with yours is equal to or more then the loan you borrowed. I love the ideas tho..if my parents had money to help me.. and yea, i am black and there are certain states where i cant move to with out getting labeled :(
... and yea, i am black and there are certain states where i cant move to with out getting labeled :(
There seem to be a reasonable number of jobs in the Pacific NW, and most folks here don't care what color anyone is, we all end up moss-covered anyways. Come on over.
i mean after gas , a car note, car insurance, and a phone bill, not to mention helping out with rent , having to buy food and help out with other stuff around the house.. its bad.lol.. Now if i honestly could choose to pay a little bit each month for forever, i d do that until i am making like 90k or so. But you cant pay less then what sallie mae asks for.
There seem to be a reasonable number of jobs in the Pacific NW, and most folks here don't care what color anyone is, we all end up moss-covered anyways. Come on over.
i would love too if my future wifes family and mine came with us. I d be coming on chance because while there are jobs out there, there is no grantee i am going to get them u know?
Where did I tell you to quit your job?
Keep your job.
As your second, part-time job, work on finding another job that pays more. Fiserv might be an option -- but of course, I'm assuming that you live close to PA. I used to live in Valley Forge and community to Wilmington -- it's really not that bad.
At the very least, you can get your federal loans sorted out -- and that should help a lot. If you do qualify for the hardship processes (and they are great, look them up!), then you should be ok with at least that payment.
fight for what?
I joined the coast guard and while they do go to war, their "normal" job is service to others in some form - be it rescue work, firefighting, environmental clean up and law enforcement, fisheries enforcement, contraband and immigration enforcement, aids to navigation, ice breaking, scientific research, etc... I was able to do all of that and more. They have the same educational benefits as do the other armed forces, and the same military stucture, but less "military" overall and more "service" oriantated. Check it out. It was a great life for me.
jfromdk:
Please read THIS LINK (http://www.finaid.org/loans/ibr.phtml) and act on it.
I think that you will qualify for some form of income-based repayment program, and you can contact the right people about it, you will get a lot of good information.
This only covers federal, BUT since your payment is so high, you'll likely be able to bring it down a lot. And, keep pushing. None of these groups wants to negotiate with anyone, but PUSH and make it happen.
Also, you might be able to consolidate *some* of your private loans, and this will help because *those* will get a fixed interest rate. And you can work to pay those down, while paying the others off at their higher rate, and so on and so forth.
the coast guard now also mans all of the ports under homeland security. a friend of mine worked for the NYC Port Authority (as a lawyer), but then it was moved under HSA, and the coast guard wanted her to enlist, and she didn't want to continue for the 8 years that the enlistment demanded. Some of her friends did continue, but she opted out. Luckily, they let her continue to have her government/student-loan benefits that she had (which is to say that "pay what you can" and in a 15 more years she'll get discharge).
So, she went from there to teaching yoga -- which dropped her payment WAY low -- and since she hasn't made much more in these few years since, most of her debt will be discharged.
But, yeah. Coast Guard might work in/around DE. Lots of coast. Or baltimore.
Problem being, they might move him away from his family and his wife's family. Unless those parents are dependents.
i live in delaware.. lol. whre are there oil fields over here.
Move. That's what they did during the great depression. They moved to where the jobs were. That's what they did after WWII, they moved to where the jobs were. That's what they did in the 1970's and 1980 and 1990 recessions, moved to where the jobs were. Sometime you have to make small and big sacrifices to stay afloat when the economy goes south. And I agree with Midwest about the wedding rings - just get a small simple inexpensive ban now and get her a great ring someday when you are debt free. The tax payers shouldn't be liable for buying your GF a wedding ring, or any other luxury item, if you are choosing to use your money to buy those kinds of things and leaving the rest of us to foot the bill for your student loans.
But I do have a great deal of sympathy for you and anyone in this situation. There defenitely needs to be something in place to keep interest rates at a fixed low rate for the life of the loan - like a fixed rate mortgage loan - and a way to reduce or eliminate all the extra fees.
ETA: just saw your post that said you couldn't move - sorry should have read them all before I posted.
I joined the coast guard and while they do go to war, their "normal" job is service to others in some form -
I grew up in a Coast Guard town on Lake Erie. I love the Coast Guard, they do insane amounts of useful things. I am in awe of the people who tend navigational aids during Really Bad Weather, for instance.
I'm now a proud old-guy member of the CG Auxiliary, doing boring useful stuff to free up the real Coast Guard folks to do Needful Things.
Plus I was really really really happy a few years ago when I sank a boat off in the cold cold water here, and they heard the brief yelp from my handheld radio as I was treading water.
The Canadian Coast Guard folks here are also awesome.
My daughter's top-college-ideas list still contains several of the US service academies.
the coast guard now also mans all of the ports under homeland security. a friend of mine worked for the NYC Port Authority (as a lawyer), but then it was moved under HSA, and the coast guard wanted her to enlist, and she didn't want to continue for the 8 years that the enlistment demanded. Some of her friends did continue, but she opted out. Luckily, they let her continue to have her government/student-loan benefits that she had (which is to say that "pay what you can" and in a 15 more years she'll get discharge).
So, she went from there to teaching yoga -- which dropped her payment WAY low -- and since she hasn't made much more in these few years since, most of her debt will be discharged.
But, yeah. Coast Guard might work in/around DE. Lots of coast. Or baltimore.
Problem being, they might move him away from his family and his wife's family. Unless those parents are dependents.
The coast guard has always manned the ports, did vessel inspections (commercial and private, tankers, freighters, private yachts, cruise ships,,,), investigations, enforced maritime law, etc.. - even before there was a Homeland Security dept. We called it Port Security and Marine Safety. They also administer all commercial maritime license exams and procedurres. Lots of CG in Delaware but no guarentee that anyone will get stationed where they want. Gotta be flexible - and be prepared to go to sea for long periods of time (sometimes longer than a year) all around the world including Antarctica and the Arctic. FUN!!!!
I grew up in a Coast Guard town on Lake Erie. I love the Coast Guard, they do insane amounts of useful things. I am in awe of the people who tend navigational aids during Really Bad Weather, for instance.
I'm now a proud old-guy member of the CG Auxiliary, doing boring useful stuff to free up the real Coast Guard folks to do Needful Things.
Plus I was really really really happy a few years ago when I sank a boat off in the cold cold water here, and they heard the brief yelp from my handheld radio as I was treading water.
The Canadian Coast Guard folks here are also awesome.
My daughter's top-college-ideas list still contains several of the US service academies.
We LOVED the CG aux. They did so much awesome stuff and were just as "heroic" in crazy bad weather and with crazy bad people as us regular CG's. THANKS!!!!! :thankyou::thankyou::cool:
Spartana,
I realize that, but her role changed -- which was intended to mean that there's even more opportunity there now than before. Once it went from port authority (which she did -- which worked along side the coast guard) to HSA, they wanted her to enlist. Which means that there was a change or extended amount of work done by CG then.
ApatheticNoMore
3-29-12, 3:35am
In my case, the only field that makes sense for me is in some kind of graphic arts, and without training in both the field and the software, I'm stuck. When you read: Drupal, required; Photoshop, required; Illustrator, required; InDesign, required; Dreamweaver, required; XML, required... plus Wordpress, preferred; CMS systems, preferred... and are presented with a checklist requiring you to check off your proficiency level on each before you can even submit your application (and yes, you'll be rejected if you don't meet minimum requirements), you're stuck if you're still going, "Drupal, what's that? Dreamweaver, is that a game?" Some retraining is just a shell game, but I'm finding it a terrible handicap not to have it, especially at my age
For something like that I'd do a certificate program rather than a degree (at somewhere credible - colleges often offer these). Not that those are free, but they aren't the kind of massive debt you'll never pay back type of thing, at least not yet. Of course if you never ever get employment in your life again then .... well yes you are in trouble. And of course like everything else it depends on what else you bring to the table, bachelors in another field - that's an argument for the certificate rather than a degree, work experience in a similar field - that's makes a certificate more favorable - since it may not be a super hard transition. No degree AND working in an ENTIRELY different field, that's a harder transition. So yea that makes getting a degree more favorable (or at least a community college degree). If I had less than steller training in that case, then I'd know it's risky (but so is taking out massive loans), and I'd be darn sure to be looking to volunteer where I could use those skills to get something to show an employer. Trust me from what I've seen there are volunteer opportunities for those skills.
I really see the whole employment thing as a terribly uncertain thing really. You never know what will actuallly get you an "in". In this economy it's more than just being able to do the work. It's rather unpredicatable. I mean sure do research, and of course the more you bring to the table in every way the better your chances, but I always feel I've gambled.
actually, you don't really even need certificates.
my husband took a series of courses at a small, independent education center that was set up to provide classes to companies. DH's former company sent him to at least 8-10 of these classes on the topics listed (photoshop, indesign, illustrator, dreamweaver, etc) and he also was able to get into a couple that served him well outside of work (he also expanded his work to include some modest filmmaking).
each class cost something like $60-100 -- and all he had to do was spend some time practicing after taking the course. To do this, he would take on small jobs for friends (doing some basic work with photoshop, for example), until he got comfortable with the program. All of these programs are on his resume, even though he doesn't use them all that often.
had we paid out of pocket for those workshops, the max would have been $800 -- and I don't think it was even that much. I know that one only cost $35, and it was a 6 hour day. The most expensive one was over 3 days, so. . . yeah.
Also, it does help.
DH is on a web site where he markets himself (or jumps on bids) where people post requests for writing/editing/etc work that they want. Requests run anywhere from $20 up to $250+ (as the ranges on the web site), and then you negotiate the hours and what you will do.
Since DH is just looking for "ad hoc" work to fill in some gaps -- this is a great option for him.
I don't know if something like this would work for you, but it's definitely an option for anyone who is a decent writer. DH and I talked about having me write some, but right now I'm writing so much content for our own web site plus one other that it's quite a bit of writing and editing on it's own! (and it markets our business, so. . .).
early morning
3-29-12, 6:14am
Zoebird, would you mind sharing the website? DD is looking for some piecework of that sort....
Yup: http://www.constant-content.com/
i would love too if my future wifes family and mine came with us. I d be coming on chance because while there are jobs out there, there is no grantee i am going to get them u know?
Where to start... Look, I understand wanting to be around family. We made a big move a couple years ago mostly to be closer to ours. The real story is that we moved away from them a couple decades ago because jobs were few and far between where we were and plentiful where we went. Your umbilical cord was cut a long time ago. You can move without them. Lots of folks do.
When we got to that little slice of heaven with jobs I worked three of them so DW could stay home with our three young kids. I worked construction during the day, managed a liquor store at night and used my hobby to get a job as a fly fishing guide any time I wasn't working the other two. None were high paying jobs, which is why I needed all three. I took Sunday off from everything to have one day to see my wife and kids. Most Sundays we took picnics in the mountains around our house and stopped on the way back home to cut down a dead tree that we hauled home to burn for heat. The house we rented had a wood stove, not uncommon in that part of the world. Was that hard? Yea, it was. Was it worth it? Yea, on so many levels. My oldest still tells stories of those days. To him it was an adventure! Real point is that the perfect job might not exist. Quit waiting for it and string as much together as you can in the mean time.
I also worked a stint in the oil fields long before I met DW. That was nasty work. Long days, dirty, potentially dangerous and always a somewhat shady crowd. These days the hours are more closely regulated, there is a lot of safety equipment that didn't exist when I was there and the crowd is mostly guys who lost jobs elsewhere and need to make money to support their families and pay their bills. I've been to western North Dakota a few times and can tell you that if you show up in the morning you will easily have a job by lunch. If you want to make some good money working for someone else that is the kind of place to seek out.
Spartana,
I realize that, but her role changed -- which was intended to mean that there's even more opportunity there now than before. Once it went from port authority (which she did -- which worked along side the coast guard) to HSA, they wanted her to enlist. Which means that there was a change or extended amount of work done by CG then.
There's also alot of civilian jobs in the CG - many of them legal based. She could probably have done something like that although the pay is low compare to private industry. The CG has always done the port security thing as well as everything else involving maritime law enforcement, security and legal stuff, but once it went from the DoT to HSA many of the job titles changed but not the jobs. The port security units, the Strike Force Units, and most of the Maritime Law Enforcement UnitS - all of which are units that deploy worldwide on short notice - were always in existance but under HSA they combined them and changed the name but not the function. Sounds like your friend would have probably come under that. Heres a bit about them in case she's still interested:
"United States Coast Guard Port Security Units are deployable units organized for sustained force protection operations. They can deploy within 96 hours and establish operations within 24 hours. PSUs conduct OCONUS port security in support of requesting regional Combatant commander. They provide waterside protection to key assets (e.g. pier areas, high value vessels, harbor entrances) at the termination/origination point of the Sea Lines of Communications (SLOCs). PSUs may operate in U.S. territorial waters under the direction of a Coast Guard or Maritime Defense Zone (MDZ) command or in foreign waters as part of Maritime Expeditionary Security Forces (MESFs) within the Navy Expeditionary Combat Command structure.
PSUs often operate with other MESF elements, such as Maritime Expeditionary Security Squadrons (MSRONs) within a Maritime Expeditionary Security Group, and are part of the Coast Guard's Deployable Operations Group (DOG). However, PSUs are not a regular part of the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM)."
Of course she also has to realize that they do go to war and aqlways have even though you hear little about it because they fall under the Dept of the Navy at war time. Also the CG is the ONLY service that allows women in combat - and has since the 1970's - so women will not be removed from their units if those units are involved in combat missions - even when they fall under the dept of the Navy.
'The Coast Guard reports directly to the Secretary of Homeland Security. However, upon the declaration of war and when Congress directs, or when the President directs, the Coast Guard operates under the Department of Defense as a service in the Department of the Navy.
"As members of the military, Coast Guardsmen on active and reserve service are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice and receive the same pay and allowances as members of the same pay grades in the other uniformed services.
The service has participated in every major U.S. conflict from 1790 through today, including landing troops on D-Day and on the Pacific Islands in World War II, in extensive patrols and shore bombardment during the Vietnam War, and multiple roles in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Maritime interception operations, coastal security, transportation security, and law enforcement detachments have been its major roles in recent conflicts in Iraq."
In her case, it wasn't an option to remain a civilian. She either had to enlist, or take the severance package. So, she took the severance. It made sure that her student loans (federal) would still be under the same program (even though she worked only 3 years there instead of 5, which was the minimum required for her program), as well as 6 months pay and benefits as she transitioned to a new job. She didn't want to enlist.
Which means that the CG's work expanded into no longer having civilians in her position. Which I think means more opportunity for people who join the CG.
Which means that the CG's work expanded into no longer having civilians in her position. Which I think means more opportunity for people who join the CG.
OK I understand now. I'm old, slow and blonde so you have to be patient with me :-)!
Honestly, all of this advice from oldsters probably sounds like this to jfrombk:
blah blah blah. blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah.
Just like his message pretty much sounds, to me, like: Don't wanna. Shouldn't haveta.
But I'm one of the oldsters who went out in the world when unemployment was 10% and moved across country to get my first job. But then, I considered it an adventure, not a burden.
He has other options. He doesn't wish to exercise them. These choices aren't alleviating his debt situation. Ok! It's entirely his life, people.
Don't turn the guy off to the simplicity wisdom he can get here. Our collective great wisdom can only benefit him and the world! ha ha. But really.
In regards to moving from family. . .
it took me a while to figure this out.
Foremost, I am blessed -- my parents are healthy and self sufficient. So are my ILs. We don't have to worry about them at this point, and probably won't have to for at least a couple of decades. If something happens, we both have siblings who can pick up -- since they both live in the same country, and in the case of my sister, the same state as my parents. My parents currently rent, so moving them closer to my sister would be easier than my sister moving to them. My SIL would likely have to move to my ILs because they are more established in their home (own it, etc) and she is set to inherit it, so she could move in there if the ILs needed to be moved out or cared for. And there is her work in that town, so she wouldn't be without.
Anyway, not to be callous about it -- but we aren't needed right now and we also have siblings who can take care of any need that may arise.
So, while there are emotional difficulties about moving away, as long as your family is self sufficient and healthy (and will be for the foreseeable future) it can be worth moving away. And with things like Skype and various cell-calling plans (where you have family/friends and such), you can do quite well.
---
Here is what I figured out in my case.
In my family, my parents and I are close (so is my sister). yes, they sometimes make me crazy, but overall we enjoy each other a lot. Living far away from them is not always easy, and I particularly miss the relationship they have with DS. But, we have Skype and that helps.
So, for years, I actually stayed quite close to them. DH also got a job that was relatively close to his family (1.5 hrs away).
I always wanted to start this business that I am running. My parents would encourage me to start it where-ever they were living, to move closer to them.
But a funny thing about my parents. They move every 2 years or so. It takes two or more years to really get a business established. Longevity is the real key in business.
My parents also lived in towns that tended to be depressed but modestly revitalizing. Really, a lot of small old mining towns in PA, and a couple of farm towns. These were not good for my business -- honestly. Not that I couldn't do OK, but the reality is that the growth would be small.
And honestly, in two years, my parents would up and move.
One year, my dad was getting an offer to look at work in Reno, NV. They were looking to move. DH and I had a house, I had my small business, DH had his job. My parents wanted me to move with them, and my sister too -- she hadn't bought her house yet, but she had a boyfriend and she had a good job (which she does as telecommute, so that wouldn't have been an issue).
Ultimately, my parents decided not to move because we told them we didn't want to move to Reno.
But, that's when I realized that it wouldn't be a good idea to base my own decisions on where my family lives.
You see, at the time, we were considering starting a small business in connection with the local nurse/midwife/doctor's office in the small (farm) town where my parents lived. It was a 1 hr commute from my house -- which was no big deal to me at the time -- and I could stay at my parents if I had a late night.
The doctor's office loved the idea of having a yoga studio in part of their offices, and I would have an easily-tapped market. The area was swiftly becoming a bedroom community, too -- so there were more and more people moving into the area and the town was picking up a fair bit. But it always would have been a very small business. (no big deal, but not really my goal)
I had started working on a business plan, getting things like a lease together with the doctor's office, and so on.
And then my parents said "lets move to reno!"
I'd realized that -- at this point -- I could no longer try to bend my life around my parents. within 6 months of this process, my parents moved to another town in PA. And wanted me to start a place there. And then about 4 years later, they moved to a different town in PA, and wanted me to start one there.
And I finally said "no." I told them that there's no personal or financial benefit to my doing so. I would spen 2-4 years building a business only to have them move. Then i'm stuck in a town that I didn't choose or I have to sell and loose money in the process.
We decided, then, to start looking around -- where did we want to live? What did we want to do?
And we found this opportunity in NZ and took it. Turns out that it was OK living away from family, and that everyone is just fine. And that we are taking this great opportunity for ourselves and for our son.
After all. My parents moved away from their family for opportunity -- everyone is fine. And so we did too.
It has been *so* worth it.
I know it isn't possible for everyone (aging parents needing care, for example -- having to move those parents with you, whatever) -- but it is possible. And it is ok.
Everyone lives, truly. everyone still loves each other.
...But, that's when I realized that it wouldn't be a good idea to base my own decisions on where my family lives...
gosh, ya think?;)
In my family, meaning my group of cousins, I think of those who moved from home as "those who managed to escape!" We are all close to our parents (or WERE--some are dead) too.
I think some people just have a fire in the belly to chase a career or to see other parts of the world. It doesn't even have to be a big flame, just a small yen. Others don't. But I am often amused at those who cannot conceive of the notion of moving away from family.
I am sad to say that my favorite cousin, after being gone from "home" for 25 years, has moved back that way to take care of elderly parents. He wasn't keen on the idea, but it's something that he felt he had to do. Iowa (home) is ok but it's just not the cat's pajamas.
Spartana,
I hear it a lot, honestly.
While it is true that there are opportunities in being willing to move, there are people who truly do not want to -- and I can't fault them for it. I have a friend born and raised in HI. Her family is there -- with deep roots. She cares for most of her elders (grandmothers, grandfathers, great aunts and uncles) as part of her daily life, and really raises her kids in a "village" of that familial love. Her husband has a hard time finding work, but they do work -- usually part-time seasonal based on what is available. He would love to work in his field, but there aren't' many jobs in that field near where they live anymore. To get work, he'd have to move to another state.
They just do not want to. And I can value that, too.
But, for me, this has been an adventure and I don't have those kinds of roots. And it's worth it, honestly.
iris lily,
well, my experience is a bit cloudy.
you see, i grew up with friends who grew up with extended family around them -- grandparents, aunts and uncles, and cousins. lots of excitement. parties were fun -- lots of people around. big celebrations.
I really envied that in a way.
i really wanted to stay around my parents and provide that for my kids. and for some reason, before I was about 25 or so, I'd never really thought of what that would mean for me -- or for DH and I.
It would mean always going where my dad went, which was always based on his job opportunities. But doing so would dramatically decrease our job opportunities. And i figured it out when they did that reno thing.
I was glad that I did, because then DH and i started planning without thinking being near our parents. And it made a HUGE difference. It's when we really took a strong look at our financial position and started to organize around what our goals were, what we wanted for ourselves, and how we wanted to live.
it is what ultimately allowed us the freedom to move here -- because this is where the opportunities were/are for us.
And yes, parents were upset and freaked out and whatever.
but we've all survived. :)
my student loan debt by graduation was 103,000 . now its 165k thanks to interest. The payments that they want are 1600 a month. I make 2000 a month after taxes.
I don’t what to I can say that doesn't sound glib. Honestly, jumping from 103K to 165K is just a killer. I just don't remember it being an option to graduate with that kind of debt 20 years ago. I don't remember private student loans being available either. We were kind of poor too and the financial aid packages back then were mostly grants with a little bit of federal loans thrown in (some schools had better aid packages than others).
However, my advice would be to try my darndest not to let that interest accrue. Try to consolidate, investigate income based repayments, try to find another job (it’s a lot easier when you are young than when you are older). Also, work smart in your current job and go for every internal job that pays more. If possible, maybe you and your fiance can live with family (if they're amenable to the idea) for several years and really attack that debt? With two (or three or four) incomes, it’s possible to actually get it paid down. Of course, you probably realize that you won’t be able to buy a new car or anything like that.
Cut down every possible expense. Pay off that ring and do not accrue any more debt. It’s not hopeless. I started out my career in a crappy job, but my salary improved over time.
Honestly, all of this advice from oldsters probably sounds like this to jfrombk:
blah blah blah. blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah.
Just like his message pretty much sounds, to me, like: Don't wanna. Shouldn't haveta.
But I'm one of the oldsters who went out in the world when unemployment was 10% and moved across country to get my first job. But then, I considered it an adventure, not a burden.
He has other options. He doesn't wish to exercise them. These choices aren't alleviating his debt situation. Ok! It's entirely his life, people.
Don't turn the guy off to the simplicity wisdom he can get here. Our collective great wisdom can only benefit him and the world! ha ha. But really.
no.. you guys have all given me great advice.. i just know what i can and cant do right now.. but it will all work out..and i thank you all. :) and i will check out those sites too..
I don’t what to I can say that doesn't sound glib. Honestly, jumping from 103K to 165K is just a killer. I just don't remember it being an option to graduate with that kind of debt 20 years ago. I don't remember private student loans being available either. We were kind of poor too and the financial aid packages back then were mostly grants with a little bit of federal loans thrown in (some schools had better aid packages than others).
However, my advice would be to try my darndest not to let that interest accrue. Try to consolidate, investigate income based repayments, try to find another job (it’s a lot easier when you are young than when you are older). Also, work smart in your current job and go for every internal job that pays more. If possible, maybe you and your fiance can live with family (if they're amenable to the idea) for several years and really attack that debt? With two (or three or four) incomes, it’s possible to actually get it paid down. Of course, you probably realize that you won’t be able to buy a new car or anything like that.
Cut down every possible expense. Pay off that ring and do not accrue any more debt. It’s not hopeless. I started out my career in a crappy job, but my salary improved over time.
i cant live with them for years because they are not living somewhere with enough space for them selves.. and everyone in my family is kinda in debt themselves sooo yea..lol.
ApatheticNoMore
3-29-12, 6:11pm
I would have trouble moving away from family. Mom currently takes care of dad who is in no position to take care of himself. Mom is in her 70s. I don't know how much longer she will be able to take care of my dad as she has difficulty walking. Sibling could take care of parents, but sibling is always prone to a bouts of addiction, jail time, etc. etc.. I mean half the time THEY need taking care of themselves. I could leave now, but I have a fear I'd be back in a few years. :\ The moving thing is the type of thing you really need to do when you are real young.
ANM,
yep, it's definitely going to call to you. hard core. my friend is an only child, and while her parents live far away from her -- she knows it's up to her eventually.
and her partner is also an only, so he knows it will be all up to him too.
my son is an only. it concerns me to burden him.
my sister and i have a lot of conversations about it, and i would move my family here (we'd need enough money to do so -- the government requires it), but my sister figures it's better to have them near her -- and her place is large enough to house them. My sister said she could easily put them in the dining room (as their bedroom) as there is a bathroom on the first floor next to the kitchen, and the living room is large enough to be a living-dining. They'd just have to move the music room up from the living room area to one of the up-stairs rooms.
my sister bought an old mansion and is fixing it up. built in 1905 or some such. downstairs was a front parlor, back parlor, dining, butler's pantry and kitchen that became one apartment -- so the pantry became a bathroom -- and then the up stairs is 4 bedrooms and a bath, and then the third floor which houses the attic was developed into 3 more rooms and a very small bath.
So, they could house several families, actually.
Honestly, all of this advice from oldsters probably sounds like this to jfrombk:
blah blah blah. blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah.
Mom? Mom? Is that you? :-)!
I do understand how hard it is for someone Jfrombk's age who had an expectation of getting a $80K plus salary job when he got out of school that didn't materialize. There does seem to be that expectation from alot of younger people coming out of college these days, they just assume that they will be able to get a good job at the top of their field, in the city of their choosing, at a high rate of pay, and be able pay that student loan debt off. We old Boomers, who may have graduated 30 or 40 years ago, had a different take on things. We assumed we'd start in the mail room or in some low paying intern position when we got out of college and spend many many years (and possibily many many transfers to different cities) working our way up the corporate food chain to the big bucks. So, out side of doctors and lawyers who pretty much could count on being employed right away, most didn't get student loans because we didn't count on that big corporate paycheck once we graduated. But just because a person assumed that they would get a good job, is no reason to default on paying back student loan debt IMHO. Especially when someone is in their 20's, 30's or 40's and will have many more decades of working years left to pay toward that debt. Now someone in HK Passeys position is very different to me. She (he?) has probably been paying those debts monthly for 30 or more years and now, having lost her job and being over 50, may have very limited options in the future - especially with having a disability that limits the type of work she can do. I view allowing someone like that a way to default on their student loan debt MUCH differently then I do a 22 year old just out of college and who may never have worked a day in their lives (not talking about you jfrombk). That person SHOULD be required to pay back that debt and they should get ANY kind of job they can - pick fruit, flip burgers, wait tables, etc... - to do it. So while I am all for allowing someone who has made many many years of payments, is older and may be limited in their employment options, and is in a financial situation not of their own doing to have the remaining portion of their student loan debt forgiven. But a 20, 30 or 40 -something person (or a 50 or 60 or 70 something person with money to pay) who is physically and mentally able to work...no. I also feel that, while I don't like the proposed student loan forgiveness act at all, I do agree that there needs to be a way to reduce or eliminate outragous fees and interest rates so that those debts CAN be repaid by most people who incurred them.
I would have trouble moving away from family. Mom currently takes care of dad who is in no position to take care of himself. Mom is in her 70s. I don't know how much longer she will be able to take care of my dad as she has difficulty walking. Sibling could take care of parents, but sibling is always prone to a bouts of addiction, jail time, etc. etc.. I mean half the time THEY need taking care of themselves. I could leave now, but I have a fear I'd be back in a few years. :\ The moving thing is the type of thing you really need to do when you are real young.
I also had trouble moving away from my family (main reason I'm still in SoCal) but did because otherwise I would have spent my life flipping burgers. But I came back here to be with family decades later when my parents were old and needed help. Most people coming out of college now in their early 20's aren't taking care of their "elderly" parents (who are probably in their 40's) yet. They generally don't have kids or a house or anything tying them to a certain area out of necessity - just out of choice. Many people move to get a better job only to return years later to help care for aging parents (if the parents won't move in with them). I did this, hubby did this, pretty much everyone I know moved somewhere for a better future. That's especially true in manufactering cities. Look at all the manufacturing plants that have gone under over the last 100 years - most never to return. All those people had to learn new skills and move away in order to find jobs and survive. So yeah, it's hard to do, but if it means that a young person with a college degree will have to spend their entire life living in poverty or on the government dole if they stay in their hometowns, then it's probaby time to look at moving as an option no matter how hard it is.
Part of the reason that they believe that is because it is what they were told.
When I was in school, I was told that jobs in my field (english, writing emphasis) would start around $40-45k and could move up (eventually) to as high as $120k, but would probably settle around $80k (and then go COL) -- and that this would happen about the time we were 40 unless we were super diligent and aggressive early on.
One of our friend started at the same time as DH, but moved quickly into management, and so was earning much sooner. DH didn't want to do management (until he figured out that's where the money was), and so he moved up much more slowly. His friend in the company wondered what took him so long to figure that out. LOL
The thing that enticed a lot of lawyers is the idea that you'll get a job earning $60-80k per year on the outset. And some do -- if you get into a good, large firm. And, you are willing to work about 90 hours a week or more. And then you move up, and sure -- in about 10 years or less you could make partner, which could easily be making $150k or more. In a large firm.
But most lawyers do not make that kind of money. most start out making between $40-50k per year in small firms or government jobs. If they start their own firm or become partner, they'll probably earn around $100k. that takes about a decade. If these small time lawyers get Erin Brochovich lucky, they might soar up to being a "large firm" in terms of the types of clients/cases that they see and might earn in the millions. But that is rare.
I'm not sure what young people are told now about job prospects, other than "to get a good job. . ." wherein "good" is never really defined -- are they talking about income? lifestyle (white vs blue collar work)? social status (people value this job over that one)? honestly, I can't say.
i agree, too, about moving.
most of my friends have kids in college or who have just graduated. none of these people is in any need of having their children live near them for their health. all of them are healthy people between the ages of 45 and 55. And they are working still, established in their homes or communities.
my friend's daughter may be moving to Oregon because of her work. She wants to get a job at the school for the deaf and blind in philadelphia (where she has interned for free for the past four summers), but that school may not have a position. She won't miss out on a position -- even public schools can hire here with NCLB laws if a child can't afford a specialized school. But it looks like the school in oregon is really interested in her. she'll have only about $6k in debt after school -- she's done quite well honestly -- and will take any position that is available. She wants to work. And it's in public service, so she'll qualify for the income-based payments plan with the 10 year discharge (not that it would take her all that long).
If she does get a job in the philly school, her plan is to live at home and commute (it's a 40 minute commute), which will allow her to pay off her student loan debt. Her older brother graduated two years ago, lived at home for 6 months and paid off his student loans, and then got a higher paying job in his field in Virginia and moved there. Her younger brother starts university next year.
ApatheticNoMore
3-30-12, 7:26pm
Yea I just find myself 30 something and know I will have elderly parents (so dad had me when he was in his early 50s, so mom was in her late 30s when she had me) - but they still weren't that old when I was in my early 20s (well dad was in his 70s then but in good shape). I just saw no real reason to move back then.
well, in general, so cal has a lot of opportunities that, say, rural iowa may not. :)
For something like that I'd do a certificate program rather than a degree (at somewhere credible - colleges often offer these). Not that those are free, but they aren't the kind of massive debt you'll never pay back type of thing, at least not yet. Of course if you never ever get employment in your life again then .... well yes you are in trouble. And of course like everything else it depends on what else you bring to the table, bachelors in another field - that's an argument for the certificate rather than a degree, work experience in a similar field - that's makes a certificate more favorable - since it may not be a super hard transition. No degree AND working in an ENTIRELY different field, that's a harder transition. So yea that makes getting a degree more favorable (or at least a community college degree). If I had less than steller training in that case, then I'd know it's risky (but so is taking out massive loans), and I'd be darn sure to be looking to volunteer where I could use those skills to get something to show an employer. Trust me from what I've seen there are volunteer opportunities for those skills.
I really see the whole employment thing as a terribly uncertain thing really. You never know what will actuallly get you an "in". In this economy it's more than just being able to do the work. It's rather unpredicatable. I mean sure do research, and of course the more you bring to the table in every way the better your chances, but I always feel I've gambled.
A certificate program is what I went for. Total cost: $18K, mostly in student loans. At 56 years old, that's more than I can pay in a lifetime unless I get a very good job, and soon, especially since my private loans are 8-9% interest. Thank goodness they finally stopped allowing the loan servicers to charge a hefty fee to allow you to get an unemployment deferral (above and beyond charging you interest during the deferral.) Local community college: still $9,000+ for a two-year program.
actually, you don't really even need certificates.
DH is on a web site where he markets himself (or jumps on bids) where people post requests for writing/editing/etc work that they want. Requests run anywhere from $20 up to $250+ (as the ranges on the web site), and then you negotiate the hours and what you will do.
I don't know if something like this would work for you, but it's definitely an option for anyone who is a decent writer. DH and I talked about having me write some, but right now I'm writing so much content for our own web site plus one other that it's quite a bit of writing and editing on it's own! (and it markets our business, so. . .).
Thanks, Zoebird. Which website does your husband use? Most of the ones I've found pay abysmally, as you're competing with people in Bangladesh and Rumania. People expect you to research and write a 1-page article for as little as $1-2, or do a company logo for under $15. I do write for a hospital in California, so at least I'm building my portfolio and samples, but when you're only allowed to bid on 10 projects a month, you don't want to waste any of those slots on assignments you're not sure will pay. I've even seen graphic designers and writers in the US listing their base rates at as little as $8-9/hr, which after subtracting site fees and payroll taxes comes to well below minimum wage - all in order to compete. Worse, several have gone to the "crowdsourcing" model - you do the work up front and "compete" with other writers/designers for the work, then the client pays for the one they like. The only site I've found so far that seems to support a fairly decent pay scale is peopleperhour.com in the UK.
For skills acquisition, your husband's approach sounds great, and I really wish I'd known to try that way. We were actually expected to learn our software skills pretty much on our own time using tutorials anyway. Still, I'm not sure about learning about design itself that way: I don't think you really can pick it up without the feedback of an instructor and class, or at least fellow learners. You can't develop a critical eye very well on your own. There's got to be something cheaper than Art Institute, however!
PS: oops, sorry, just saw the post where you gave the website. Thanks for sharing!
ApatheticNoMore
4-2-12, 5:10pm
Ok extension classes at colleges here can run as much as $1000 a class, certificates are generally 8-10 classes (so 8-10k). I guess a more extensive program would be more classes, but are seldom offered.
Community colleges OTOH are $36 a unit here, and I would imagine if one had an existing degree (yes even an existing 2 year community college degree) one wouldn't need to take the general ed type stuff (so maybe a years worth of classes your talking 2k something - of course if your talking having to do two years it would be more).
Those classes made me want to take classes I'm sad to say, yea let's blow some more money on education, why does it always seem money is tight, I don't know :laff:. But when I'm employed as I am now, I do pay out of salary.
Ok extension classes at colleges here can run as much as $1000 a class, certificates are generally 8-10 classes (so 8-10k). I guess a more extensive program would be more classes, but are seldom offered.
Community colleges OTOH are $36 a unit here, and I would imagine if one had an existing degree (yes even an existing 2 year community college degree) one wouldn't need to take the general ed type stuff (so maybe a years worth of classes your talking 2k something - of course if your talking having to do two years it would be more).
Those classes made me want to take classes I'm sad to say, yea let's blow some more money on education, why does it always seem money is tight, I don't know :laff:. But when I'm employed as I am now, I do pay out of salary.
Wow, $36/unit? Where are you? Community college is just under $96/unit here in WA. I can use some of the credits from my existing AAS toward the general requirements, of course, but only a certain fraction of credits - I think something like up to 25% - can come from a previous degree in any case.
>:(
Info about senior citizens and student debt as the next "debt bomb": http://lifeinc.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/02/10987401-senior-citizens-owe-billions-in-student-loans
flowerseverywhere
4-3-12, 7:08pm
our local community college has soared to $158 per credit hour, plus you have to pay an activity, lab and for books so it can add up fast. full time for one year costs 5,700.
For the closest state college undergraduate tuition is only slightly more than that, and a year with room and board runs about $20,000, and $370-$425 per credit hour for graduate degrees. These are for in state residents.
I read that article about seniors and college debt, some people actually have their social security garnished. Sometimes they cosigned for kids and grandkids loans.
AP exams cost $87 and if you have an ambitious high schooler and your school offers it you can save quite a bit of money going that route.
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