View Full Version : Shoulld parents be expected to fund their kids college education?
There has been a long disscussion on another forum about student loan debt and many people made the comment that their parents didn't, couldn't or wouldn't pay for their education. Or comments from parents who have, or will be, paying for their kids college education. Do you think that it is the parents responsibility to fund their kids education? Should they do this even if it means the parents get into debt or harm their own financial future? Did you expect your parents to pay for your college (or do your kids expect you to pay for theirs)? I'm a boomer from a low income working class single parent, and most boomers paid for their own college (unless from a very wealthy family) as I did. Most never had an expectation that their parents would pay or even help pay for college. That seems to have changed.
Interesting topic! I don't think parents should be expected to pay for their child's college education, nor do I feel it is their responsibility. That being said, I think it is a nice thing for parents to do if they can swing it. I don't think they should put themselves in a bad place financially over it, though.
I didn't expect my parents to pay for my education, and they didn't. I always thought since I worked my way through school (well, partially, anyway--I did take out some loans) that my kids could do the same thing. But it was really hard, and I look at my little girl's face and think if there is any way for me to help her, I want to. College isn't as affordable as it used to be. I don't want her to start her life under crushing student loan debt.
We are saving now for her college. But we will expect her to work hard in school and get a job to help pay for some things. No screwing around on our dime! ;)
A college education is sooooooo much more expensive now than when I went. We hadn't planned on paying for our kids' education, but they are getting so much in debt, and it isn't easy for them finding a job that will pay for food/clothing/shelter/car/insurance, and loan payback, etc., etc. So we've helped with paying rent/food for awhile, and we've paid a couple smaller loans off, and some of the interest that's been building up. But they have both graduated and I'm starting to feel that maybe they relied on us too much, so we're cutting back. I don't mind helping if we can, but only if they appear to be working hard and not living beyond their means.
Life is so much more expensive than when I went to college. We didn't have computers, phones, etc. and the crappy apartments I lived in were about $80-125/mo. I ate out maybe once every couple of months and my big weekly splurge was a coke! So much has changed now.
Personally, I think no. But here is how I get there.
Parents want to fund the education that they feel is important. They feel that it's important for their children to get a college education. This has no regard for how the child may want to be educated (or not) or utilize that money that was set aside or whether it would be better for the parents to have it as an investment for their own care needs later on or whatever.
I was gifted my university education by my parents. As such, they had a lot of control over what I studied. I suggested doing many things -- as I have mentioned -- which they did not value. I had the option of not having their financial (and emotional) support and going my own way (with no clue of how to accomplish that) or doing what they said. So, I did what they said.
I then went to graduate school, which I was effectively paying for by myself. But because of loans, I wasn't too clear on what I was spending vs what I was taking out in loans. I know that I was 22 yrs old and making decisions. I also know that I was naive and ignorant and foolish. I admit all of this. And, I've done well to pay back.
I think that had I been more cognizant of the money that I was spending -- and what was "mine" in the future that is going away down a hole for an education I didn't want -- I would have been far more cautious in proceeding after year one, when I had only had about $20k in debt at the time. I could have worked, paid it off, and then moved on into what I wanted. Honestly, I can now -- in retrospect -- see very clearly where I could have made good decisions for myself but didn't based on my fears of rejection.
Here, I see parents as being much different.
It's a much more egalitarian place, and most of my friends and colleagues have paid for their own educations past high school since day 1. Sure, some of them have had help from family, but MOST of them have paid for it 100%, and most of them with *minimal* debt (if any at all). I know two kids, three degrees in three years, with only $10k in debt between them, and with some help from us (financial planning help, looking at how numbers work and how to snowball, etc), have already paid it down to $4k in *one year*. Smart cookies, those kids.
Anyway, here is what I notice about all of these people:
1. it takes them longer to get their education in some cases, but shorter in others because of how they are paying/working. For those who take longer, they are usually going part time and working full time -- but it only takes them slightly longer than a 'regular' student. For those who take less time (like those above), they tend to take heavy, heavy course loads and work part time -- working full time and part time in summers to set themselves up for first semester's fees/books/etc. Money is tight, but they do well.
2. they study what they want.
I want to emphasize this a bit. Most of them study not only what they want, but what they think will provide for them in the future. Of the smart cookies I mentioned above, he had a degree in film, but also one in web development and coding, as well as on in graphic design. Much of his work DURING school was in these last two fields, and since graduating, he's had several contracts in that which have brought in good income. He's currently going to get an M.Div, which he's going to pay for up front by working in the web/stuff -- a job already lined up with the company for the next 3 years while he studies. It's work from home, work on your own time, and he's living with his parents (paying groceries and a small amount of money to expenses). His wife is doing similar work (writing/copy) using her degree in communications and professional writing (the other two being political science and media studies as well as accounting).
Many of my other friends only have the education that they need/want to get work that they want. One of my friend's is an artist who works in the film industry here. She's a set painter, and she does a *darn* good job. Her degree? She has a 1 yr certificate in set painting from a school in LA -- which she paid for herself -- and she has a 9 month certificate in specialized painting techniques from a traditional painting school in Italy (where she learned how to do traditional frescoes, specialized finishes like marbleizing, etc). She paid for this out of pocket as well. If you saw Peter Jackson's King Kong, she did all of the marbleization for the Empire State Building entry in the movie. It's a darn good job. She's currently working/studying to do stunt-work, and she has already gotten a gig on some Aus-funded tv program filming in Auckland.
Her brother has multiple certificates in various outdoors activities and safety -- from various polytechnical schools here. He works here and in the US in various seasons running all manner of programs from ski instruction to glacier walks to white water rafting -- you name it. He also is a builds (his father taught him) and is never at a loss for work.
Another friend of mine is studying to become an architect -- he's taken 5 years so far and has one year left. He has a wife and two children -- she works and so does he -- while he goes to school. They are moving to germany because he got accepted at a good school there to do his last year. She got her certificate in programming (computers) and basically checks for and reprograms bugs. She's always on contract, but earns good money and is happy with that. She is also certified in massage (several forms) -- and does that on the side.
My point here is that had I been left to my own devices -- without my parents wanting something specific for me and having the money/desire to make it happen -- I probably would have:
A. worked to go and get the yoga/massage certification that I wanted ($3,000 or $1500 plus work study), and
B. then worked to go through community college to get a business degree of some sort (likely business and marketing, plus some accounting) -- possibly only two years worth, and
C. then worked in earnest, creating seed money to start my business and got rolling sooner.
I very likely would not have lived at home during B and C, but sought out roommates or lived with DH. Though, it's questionable as to whether I would have met DH had I followed this other path -- so it's a sort of "It's a Wonderful Life" situation.
That being said, I did self-educate in A, B, and C on my own dime ANYWAY -- because that's how the cookie crumbles.
With A, I did all work-study and I have paid very little for yoga certifications/training over the years (many people spend easily $10k on the training I have -- not including travel expenses, etc. One of my friends spend $17k in the last YEAR on yoga alone. I don't spend anywhere near that much and never have).
For B, I worked with my accountant to learn, plus traded yoga for accounting services and training to learn, plus did work study in studios and learned a lot plus I had a SCORE mentor and several other business mentors besides. I have a new one I'm meeting here in NZ next week. :D
and then C -- as is. :)
All while paying off the law school debt that I had no business accumulating anyway. :P
Now, for my son, here is how it rolls out IMO.
We have a small fund for him in a CD. It's got three elements:
1. when people send us money for his birthday/etc, if we don't' spend it on something (like swimming lessons or some such), then we put it into the savings which will eventually go into a CD when it rolls over;
2. when he 'finds' money, he is encouraged to save a portion of it and then he can spend the rest. For example, he found $4 yesterday (coins in my purse, no less!) and I said that he had to save some, and so he put the $1 coin in his bank and then had the $2 coin. He wanted to buy some $1 candies, and so we went and did that. He then had $1 left and said I"ll put it in savings!" At the end of several months when his little bank is full, we take that and put most of it in his savings, and he's allowed to withhold some of it for spending in his own way. He usually just enjoys playing with the coins themselves. After all, he's 3.
3. when we have budgeted money to spend on him in some way (birthday, clothes, whatever), and there is 'left over' from the budget, we put it into his savings.
Right now, there's about $4k in his CD and several hundred in his savings, plus his little bank. I expect that by the time he's 18 or so, there will probably be over $20k in there.
While it's not enough to pay for his education by any sense of the imagination, it's decent seed money.
Our hope/plan for him is to either travel the world for a bit with it (which we consider a good education), use it to start his own business which he can work while working, or to use it to cover some of his tuition/books/etc expenses should he choose to go to university.
Our other hope is to have enough money by then that he could take loans out "from us" as opposed to taking them out from a bank or some such. Meaning, he can study what he wants, and if he needs to take out a loan, he can take it out from Bank of Mom and Dad (which will have different understandings of forbearance, etc), and then pay us back later through payments.
But, if we don't have that kind of money by then, he will basically be on his own.
Which I think will give him the freedom to study what he wants, and he'll be more cognizant of what he is doing -- both with taking out debt and also with working his way through.
I just -- honestly -- think it's better for the person getting the education.
Is it tougher? Yes.
But i think it's worth it.
flowerseverywhere
3-23-12, 7:16pm
Yes. In front of fancy vacations, RV's, vacations, bigger houses, yet another pair of shoes, new cars, eating out etc. If you lose a job due to layoff or illness, it changes things. We deliberately only had two children because we felt such a strong responsibility. Any my kids graduated in four years and got good jobs, they weren't screw-ups or ingrates like many people like to portray kids that have a lot of parental help and have told us many times how thankful they are.
Yes. In front of fancy vacations, RV's, vacations, bigger houses, yet another pair of shoes, new cars, eating out etc. If you lose a job due to layoff or illness, it changes things. We deliberately only had two children because we felt such a strong responsibility. Any my kids graduated in four years and got good jobs, they weren't screw-ups or ingrates like many people like to portray kids that have a lot of parental help and have told us many times how thankful they are.
Yes! I totally agree! I can't figure out how parents prioritize Disney trips over college. Maybe someone can enlighten me?
In school, most of my friends had 100% of their tuition/board paid for by their parents and they were all very good students who went on to good jobs and selective grad schools. I never saw the ingrates.
I did not have 100% of my college paid for. I went to a private school and I had a lot of scholarships and grants. I graduated almost debt-free.
I plan on paying 100% of my kid's college costs.
My parents paid about 1/3 of my college, and I paid the other 2/3 through working and loans. But that was a long time ago, and college has gotten much more expensive. I was appreciative for what I received, but didn't believe they should sacrifice their future for me.
That said, I always envied the kids who could go on spring break, or skiing on Christmas vacation break. I worked. Evey week off, as well as all summer. Ate crappy most of college to live within my meager means. I was not able to go to anything that required new clothes. Had a hand me down car (family car) that would break down at the most inconvenient moments. I didn't have a computer or a cell phone or even a color TV (the first two hadn't been invented yet).
We paid a flat modest monthly rate and tuition for our girls education at the programs of their choice while they worked part-time in the year and every summer. No regrets doing that and they graduated debt-free.
Never compromise your senior years financing as there is no need for anyone to pick up the slack if needed due to unforeseen circumstances.
early morning
3-23-12, 8:29pm
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We paid for our kids college. They didn't qualify for any loans due to my income. I'm not sure what happens to the kids who's parents refuse to pay and they don't qualify. I'm not sure it was that much more expense to send them to school or have them living at home. They were expensive either way.
Should kids be expected to fund their parents' retirement?
We paid for our kids college. They didn't qualify for any loans due to my income. I'm not sure what happens to the kids who's parents refuse to pay and they don't qualify. I'm not sure it was that much more expense to send them to school or have them living at home. They were expensive either way.
LOL! I went back to work after my kid was born. From age 3 mos. to 3 yrs. we paid well over 40K for daycare.
Should kids be expected to fund their parents' retirement?
If need be, yes.
Should kids be expected to fund their parents' retirement?
Why is it either/or? I signed up for a 401K w/my first job. I never made a lot of money in my 20s, but still managed to save. Now at 40, thanks to compound interest, I have a nice tidy sum for retirement. My DH and I have enough and now we are funding college.
ApatheticNoMore
3-23-12, 8:55pm
Should kids be expected to fund their parents' retirement?
there's always that potential risk at some point, and that potential risk exists quite independent of whether they ever funded your college education. The thing about parents is they are irresponsible with money and don't know how to handle it. :\
flowerseverywhere
3-23-12, 8:57pm
Should kids be expected to fund their parents' retirement?
we funded our retirement first by the previously mentioned means. No fancy vacations, RV's, fancy cars, eating out, more and more shoes etc.
Simple living from early on and setting priorities enabled us to do both.
we funded our retirement first by the previously mentioned means. No fancy vacations, RV's, fancy cars, eating out, more and more shoes etc.
Simple living from early on and setting priorities enabled us to do both.
Yep! Our house has one bathroom and my DH and I haven't been on a vacaton in years, but our kids's undergrad is paid for. I think it was a worthwhile sacrifice.
Blackdog Lin
3-23-12, 9:09pm
In short, no. I always felt that my obligations ended at warmth and love and a good home enviromnent from ages 0-18. (I failed at ages 15-18, but that's another story.....)
After age 18, in our family, you're on your own. Hopefully your forebears had the insight to set up some insurance, but if not.....
We do it on our own.
flowerseverywhere
3-23-12, 9:12pm
Yep! Our house has one bathroom and my DH and I haven't been on a vacaton in years, but our kids's undergrad is paid for. I think it was a worthwhile sacrifice.
and you have set an example for your kids about setting priorities. My kids tell me they have friends who never took advantage of starting a 401K even with a match and how they have put money away every year in theirs. We will never be rich but I think we will always all be self sufficient and responsible and not look to the government (aka taxpayers) to bail us out of things we are responsible for, barring as I said a major illness or other setback we have no control over.
We are all different and have different priorities but I for one have no regrets.
goldensmom
3-23-12, 9:26pm
Parents should not be expected to pay for their children’s college nor should children be expected to fund their parents retirement. It would be nice if parents could help out with college and it would be nice if children helped their parents if needed. There is no obligation either way but it would be an act of love one for the other if the need arises and the means are available
Yes. In front of fancy vacations, RV's, vacations, bigger houses, yet another pair of shoes, new cars, eating out etc. If you lose a job due to layoff or illness, it changes things. We deliberately only had two children because we felt such a strong responsibility. Any my kids graduated in four years and got good jobs, they weren't screw-ups or ingrates like many people like to portray kids that have a lot of parental help and have told us many times how thankful they are.
I hope you didn't take any of my post in that way.
I will say that my sister and I turned out fine -- but I think we had a totaly different understanding of the money/etc than we *should have*. I am also grateful for everything my parents did and sacrificed and all that.
Of course parents are not obligated to pay. If the child is a good candidate for a college education, then it's really a good thing to give them emotional and social support for college as a life goal, and letting them live rent free while attending a local college is financial support of significance. And if the parents can put forth money for tuition and books, that's great!
Most everyone I know had parental support of some kind as well as jobs. I paid at least half for my undergraduate degree at a local private univeristy (and had to endure living with my parents, ugg) and in a reverse of the norm, my parents paid for my graduate degree. But that was a state school and also it was back in the days when a terminal master's degree took only one year, so it didn't break the bank.
flowerseverywhere
3-23-12, 10:24pm
I hope you didn't take any of my post in that way.
I will say that my sister and I turned out fine -- but I think we had a totaly different understanding of the money/etc than we *should have*. I am also grateful for everything my parents did and sacrificed and all that.
to be honest I don't read your posts that are that long, but it wasn't directed at you. I have heard countless times how kids appreciate a college education more if they pay for it themselves. In the meantime I see their parents living a life where they are using their discretionary income for luxuries.
We live by the Millionaire next door model. Trying to make sure that money we spend is for things that are truly worthwhile and I happen to think educating your children is perhaps the best use of any money above your basic living expenses.
All four of my sons were able to get their BA degrees by working during the summer vacation, weekends, etc. to put themselves through university. They were able to live at home and not pay anything for rent, food, etc. They took every job they could do, such as working on a garbage truck, planting trees to replace those which had been cut down, etc...and every one of them were able to take a master's degree.
flowerseverywhere
3-24-12, 7:30am
All four of my sons were able to get their BA degrees by working during the summer vacation, weekends, etc. to put themselves through university. They were able to live at home and not pay anything for rent, food, etc. They took every job they could do, such as working on a garbage truck, planting trees to replace those which had been cut down, etc...and every one of them were able to take a master's degree.
Lizi, an excellent plan and it is great that you helped them the way you did by letting them live at home and providing a roof and food. That would solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.
I think it would be impossible these days, for a student to earn enough summer monies to pay for tuition/books/technical fees, etc, not to mention room/board if they don't live close to home. Its just all so expensive anymore.
to be honest I don't read your posts that are that long, but it wasn't directed at you. I have heard countless times how kids appreciate a college education more if they pay for it themselves. In the meantime I see their parents living a life where they are using their discretionary income for luxuries.
We live by the Millionaire next door model. Trying to make sure that money we spend is for things that are truly worthwhile and I happen to think educating your children is perhaps the best use of any money above your basic living expenses.
I totally get you. I love that book, btw. It's a great one.
I agree with you in that idea. Which is why we are specifically saving to help DS with his education of his choosing. But how we want to manage that when the time comes -- how we wnat to communicate about that money -- is what is tough.
I think part of it, though, is that it is also "his money." he will be putting into the account himself, even though we are also "matching" in some cases, adding in extra bits now and again, and so on. He has his own spreadsheet, even, and a bank balance that he can look at online. We think this is valuable for him. So perhaps that is part of the 'solution.'
FWIW, my sister and I decided to go ahead and get long-term care insurance on both of our parents when we went and got it for ourselves. A friend of ours was caring for her grandmother in her home, before they were simply not able to do it anymore. They were able to take out a modest policy on themselves and their parents and her one aunt (who has no other family) and their grandmother. She lived with them for 2 or 3 more years before it kicked in to pay, and now she's at a facility that is modest but takes care of her (and it's close to home, so they visit grandma often). we went and talked to their insurance person -- and my sister talked to hers -- and got a better deal.
The good thing about ours is that it allows for in-home care up to a certain amount, depending upon the conditions the person has at the time of taking the insurance. we provided a full medical history for everyone, and we were approved for some decent coverage.
It's not really funding their retirement, but not knowing how well my parents saved (they aren't great with money), I can't say that they would ahve enough to get the sort of care that I would want for them, and this took some of the weight off of our minds (my sister and I). And, as I said, it doesn't cost me much per year anyway.
Also, for my DS, I'd rather have him living at home while he goes on for higher education (which is common here anyway) where we can cover room/board. We might also cover transportation (his bus pass, for example) so that he can get to where he wants/needs to go for school.
This, with his own savings (which we put in to as well), should set him up quite nicely.
Currently, the cost per semester at two very good, local universities runs between $4 and 8k per year for the tuition/fees. It depends upon the degree. Law and engineering, for example, run closer to $8k, while humanities and business run closer to $4k. In the middle, we have nursing and teaching. I thought that was rather interesting.
I think it would be do-able for a student to cover $2k in tuition/fees plus another $300 or so in books/supplies per semester with a summer job. Even earning the minimum wage here, after taxes, then young person would have about $4,500 after 12 weeks of summer work. And since summer here is christmas, the higher-paying seasonal work might produce even more. Add to this a part-time job on the way through is more-than-doable.
Heck, a kid might even come out ahead this way (particularly if there are savings as well).
Assuming it costs 2 times more when DS is ready for school, I think it would be safe to estimate $48k on his education (if he chooses the high end of the $8k degrees which comes to $24k over 4 years at the current rates). Looking at the way his account is now, we would be about half-way there. If he also worked two summers at around minimum wage (current amount), he could provide the remainder. And if he worked for the summers during school, he would be able to cover a bit more.
Yes, looks like university is do-able this way.
But it only assumes that the costs are do-able.
My alma-mater would be out of reach by then. And I went to a state school.
Absolutely not. "Expected", IMO, is a really strong term, especially in homes where finances are known to be tight, which I tend to believe, if kids are raised and guided accordingly Re: such household circumstances, then a general understanding will be in place long before post-secondary education arises, resulting in those who are seeking to better themselves in the way of advanced education, to seek out other alternatives and options.
In our case, were lucky, as both sets of grandparents have already pledged to help in that area.
I just checked the cost of little bungalow houses in the college town where I owned my first house and the house payments are lower than what I paid. I paid 12+% back in the day, now it's nowhere near that.
The point of this sis: not all costs are going up.
The greatest gift I can give my son will be to retire with finanical integrity. Debt free, plenty in savings, decent retirement account etc.. His being able to not worry about Mom and Dad being able to pay the bills or buy food is so important to me. That said I am helping him with college. I am giving him $5000 per year towards his tuition and his books. It's not much but it is reducing his need for loans. The rest is up to him. It's his education and as a young adult he will have the energy to work extra to pay it off much easier than his father and I can.
I don't think it should be expected.
To me, this is a deeply personal family value, and no one answer is correct. I was raised with the value that yes, parents save for & pay for college for their kids. My parents did that for me & my sibs, and they could do so because my father's salary paid for housing, etc. for 5 people, and my mom's job paid for college. That scenario is unlikely to ever Happen again.
My DH was not raised with that value. When it came time for DSS to go to college, neither of us had the savings, and that made me very sad. We did pay for two years of private school at a critical time for her. I wish we could have paid for her college too.
I had scholorships, parent help, loans, and jobs. I went to a private college so tuition was three times what a state college would of been.
Because we've poured everything (and more) into my husband's business we can't help the kids much but they do have accounts that were set up for them at birth by my MIL. They started with $5000.00 each and considering everything the market has been through I think they are doing pretty well. Both are sitting around $24,000.00 now and they still have a couple of years before college.
cattledog
3-24-12, 11:03am
To me, this is a deeply personal family value, and no one answer is correct. I was raised with the value that yes, parents save for & pay for college for their kids. My parents did that for me & my sibs, and they could do so because my father's salary paid for housing, etc. for 5 people, and my mom's job paid for college.
Yes, that's so true! I realize that this is one of my deeply-held values. Education was always important in my family and I'm carrying on that value. I don't have any strings attached to the money either. She can study what she wants since it's her life.
If you go by the financial aid forms, parents are expected to at least for a while.
cattledog
3-24-12, 11:59am
If you go by the financial aid forms, parents are expected to at least for a while.
Yes, until age 25 I believe. It's also quite hard to qualify as an independent and parents still have to fill out the FAFSA for the kids to get any aid.
Me, no I never once ever thought my folks or any great missing relative would donate a dime. I did not go to college.
Husband, no never did he ever think folks or "" "" "" "" "" "" "" "". He paid for it himself, no loans.
Our sons, No we never felt we had to pay, I do not think it was expected. We helped out with nice gift checks/insurance and such as we wanted. To my best guess it was about 2/3rds of the amount needed for my son who went. How he spent it, how he will remember it, is a different story.
My grandfather was orphaned at a young age and only went to school until about 6th grade. After that, and being shuffled among a few relatives, he set out on his own and worked the rest of his life. As such he didn't know anything about college and certainly didn't encourage or discourage his kids from going. My dad went to college on the GI bill after the Korean War, on the advice of friends he had made in the service. He viewed that as one of the best decisions he ever made and consequently my parents were both very pro-education and were willing to help out as much as they could with my sister's and my education. I don't necessarily think that parents SHOULD pay for this, but it certainly makes sense that if, like mine, they think an education is a valuable thing to get then they would WANT to help pay for it if they are able.
I agree with flowers, if the parents can at all , they should help. A good education, or rather that piece of paper, is so important today where ever higher degrees are demanded for even mid level jobs. I see it as the cap stone to having and raising kids. It's part of the responsibility we accept in having kids. That said, I don't think parents should jeopardize their own futures, but in the cases where the parents simply can't help financially, then I believe their job is to help the kid navigate through the maze of grants, loans, etc.. Parents, simply through living, have more experience than a kid, period. And if they don't have the experience, then it's their job to find the people who do. An 18 year old doesn't know squat, and saying, 'you're on your own' is brutal.
My family was/is very pro education. My husbands family, when he first told his parents he wanted to go to college, their first reaction "so you think you're better than everybody else". Obviously they didn't pay a dime. We did, over the years, and when he retired he had his degree.
We paid for our kids and they had part time jobs to pay for extras. Both are very grateful. Our daughter is continuing her education which she is paying for, although she is living at home while she completes it.
We feel we have completed 'the launch', from deciding we wanted kids to the opportunity to succeed. Both have done everything we ever asked them to do, and we couldn't' be prouder of them.
And yes, bae, we expect our kids to keep us in the circumstance to which we COULD become accustomed to! ;) Our son, in California, is already talking about us moving there 'when we get old'. Actually he wants us to move there now but we just don't want to leave our bit of paradise we have built here. But, when the winters get too cold here, perhaps a nice little cottage in Malibu....:cool:
This is one of those situations that pretty much every family needs to come up with their own answer to.
In my family, our parents set up a system very early on that they would pay room and board as long as college-attending kids lived in the dorms. The rest of the responsibility fell on the child's shoulder, and if you moved out into an apartment that meant paying room and board yourself. In my case, my mom made a slight exception because I decided to live with my sister when I started college. Mom paid my share of the rent while I was an undergraduate. I worked up to 30 hours a week, took a heavy courseload of honors courses + Chinese, took two summers of summer classes and graduated iwith a BA with honors in 3 years. Secured a prestigious graduate fellowship and managed to stay on the funding treadmill for my MA and Ph.D. and ended up with both and no debt.
In my DH's family, the situation was very different, as he grew up here in China. To be honest, when he was growing up there was probably no thought of paying for college -- height of the cultural revolution and they were worried about not getting struggled to death or starving. But he managed to get into a very good school due to his English scores when they revived the college entrance exams, and all of his sisters also went to college. Basically was fully funded at that point in history. LAter he came to the US to do his MA and Ph.D and did it 100% on his own (with a little support from me toward the end). I think he was probably sending money back to his parents much of that time, as well.
I realize that the situation is very different now, and so we will likely pay a larger portion of our kids college expenses, should they care to go. But I will still expect them to work at least 15-20 hours a week, plus summer jobs unless otherwise gainfully engaged (in an internship or structured study opportunity). I think learning to manage ones time and balance different priorities is an essential skill and something they need to be well versed in before they launch. Same with sound financial management skills. But I am not 100% fixated on them going to college right out of high school -- if they decide they want to start a business or go to trade school or something else I would be ok with using some of the college fund for that. I mainly see my role as coach/advisor -- helping them figure out the path to an adulthood that is personally meaningful and earns them enough to support themselves in the way they wish to live. If that means going to law or med school, we'll do what we can to help. If it means starting an app development company or a freelance design business, same thing. But if it means sitting around on the couch eating bon bons, they can find someone else to help pay for that.
lhamo
In my family, our parents set up a system very early on that they would pay room and board as long as college-attending kids lived in the dorms. The rest of the responsibility fell on the child's shoulder, and if you moved out into an apartment that meant paying room and board yourself.
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But I will still expect them to work at least 15-20 hours a week, plus summer jobs unless otherwise gainfully engaged (in an internship or structured study opportunity).
I have a daughter approaching college age, and have major issues with the idea of signing a lease that gives me responsibility for damage done by 3 or 4 other 20 year olds and their friends. It's not really the rent, it's the liability. The last two apartments I was involved in ended up in haggling over damages, and I can't see this turning out any better.
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I recently talked to an admissions officer at a small college in the DC area, in his late 20s. He believed that on-campus work study was a no-brainer. It brings in money with a boss who will probably understand student situations, and adult(s) for the student to relate to at school. He said students with 15 hours a week of on-campus work did better than those who didn't work at all.
My mother was very education oriented and her side of the family had stressed it and she thought it was parental duty to send kids to college. Which is all well and good, but like all things whoever controls the purse strings controls major decisions, and I had to go to a college that I disliked. Guess how that worked out? >8)>8)>8)
So after dropping out and working a couple of years, I started in on my own and paid 2+ years, and then parents helped me finish up.
i agree that this can't be answered "rightly."
I think that the common values are that 1. we value education; 2. we want our children to get the education that they both want and require to both do what they want as well as do well in the modern world.
It's just a question of how we best support them getting there. I think that there are lots of valid methods.
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Here, it looks like student loans are wholly on the student, managed through the government, and then further managed through IRD (internal revenue department) which will manage wage garnishment, etc, as required.
Biggest issue facing NZ student loans? brain drain and foreign students. Foreign students do qualify for a modest amount of NZ govt student loans, and when they return home, they often 'forget' to pay. Likewise, many NZers leave NZ after finishing school (to make more income elsewhere, mostly -- though there are moves to change that situation as best NZ can), and then they also 'forget' to pay.
So of course, we all pay.
Wildflower
3-25-12, 4:11am
We paid half and DD paid the other half. It was what we could afford at the time and she worked each summer fulltime to pay her part. She tells us now that it was a good thing that she had to pay for half of her education - it made her value it much more, study harder and work harder to get good grades. She said she saw many that partied too much and didn't value their college education at all because Mommy and Daddy paid for everything.
ApatheticNoMore
3-25-12, 11:32am
Parents always told me all growing up that I had money set aside for me for college. It was always a given I would go to college. I thought until recently: "wasn't it nice of my parents to set aside money for me for college". Then I find out it seems to be mostly money my GRANDPARENTS set aside for us. So I guess I need to revise that: "wasn't it nice my grandparents ...." Which is kind of more consistent with my parents parenting and planning anyway (ie non-existent, always stressed harried overwhelmed with the task of parenthood - parenthood as an overwhelming burden too big to bear - probably not the only parent's like that I guess - although for a long time only one parent worked and they were never poor.)
They (or rather mostly my grandparents) paid for some schooling (it's some debt I don't have I suppose), still when I was 21 and still in school (and living at home), it would be 6am and my dad would be yelling about what an aweful daughter I was for still being in school (was still considered a college junior). Yea maybe you should have told me beforehand "you must be completed by x date". No, like everything else I found out after the fact. "At my age I was already self-supporting", he yelled that about me that at 21. It wasn't even a discussion "maybe you should find some way to hurry up that degree". It was just waking up to yelling in the middle of the night. But actually he yelled that at me at 17 too when he was angry, and I have a diary from age 17 where I talk about resolving "that's it, I'm going to become self-supporting right now" (I didn't even have a high school diploma yet and of course nothing came of it at 17). I mean ok if you want a kid to be self-supporting young, it's not easy these days, but you have to put a kid on some path to do so. I guess the best path is to encourage a vocation oriented 2 year community college degree. If you want them out even younger, encourage a GED, and then that 2 year degree. My dad at the same time always always discouraged me working while I was in school (high school and college). So to heck, like I knew HOW to be self-supporting. I eventually dropped out of college (for a degree that would have been paid for), found my way to self-supporting adulthood without the sheepskin or the piece of dead tree. Bitter about it? Yea you know I always will be, maybe die a little bit bitter. But got to try to move on sometime ...
Of course like everything else in that house nothing was ever talked about, scholarships were never talked about so I never applied (it's not like they were encouraged by school either), what we wanted to do in adulthood was never really talked about (my dreams were be a musician, which I was only told was highly unlikely to work :) - with adult knowledge - yea I wasn't going to get rich performing, but I could have gone into giving music lessons or something maybe - ha if I had had adult knowledge at that age).
If I end up bailing my parents out in old age it will be because they spent all their money on a useless sibling. Yes fine :(. If even my raw working capacity, my ability to take a job whatever it is and grit my teeth and bare it, has to go to bail you @#$#ers out in your old age, because you wasted not only all your money on a sibling who will never work, but also all the money you inherited (all my aunts and uncles money, all my grandparents money - although my grandparents not only gave to us grandkids for college but also distributed some additional money to us before they died - thanks gramps for not filtering it ALL through the parental cluster@#$)! Frankly I don't want to bail the 'rents. But I couldn't let them starve probably either.
jennipurrr
3-25-12, 6:01pm
No, I don't think of it as an expectation, however as others have said, more a personal/family value. Honestly though, I don't know of anyone whose parents could easily afford to help them with college and chose not to...I would have to wonder why if that was the case and I'd like to think I could say, well that is a personal value, but I really think I would judge that decision, especially in today's world. However, I do have a friend whose parents would not pay for her education because they didn't believe women should go to college (seriously, this was in the 90s)...she went anyway and had a lot of student loans while her brother went to college on their parents' dime. That worldview continues to get a lot of personal judgement from me.
My parents had savings for my college but I got a full ride to a state university. I was accepted to better schools, but my parents made it clear what they could afford to contribute and I never really considered large student loans an option. They gave me extra money, not a lot but about the amount of the electric bill each month, paying my car insurance, etc...until I decided to move in with now DH my senior year...they thought since I was acting "like an adult" then they would treat me like one, heh. That was fine with me. I had part time jobs throughout school to finance my extras. My sister and I were both expected to maintain good grades or else we would not receive any help, that was just part of the deal.
DH has been on his own since he was 16. His parents did not contribute a cent to his education. His mom was never stable enough in her own life to help, but his Dad has always had a comfortable existence. DH has always felt some bitterness there, not specifically over college, but its all rolled up into the lack of child support paid, etc. He was able to get some scholarships but had a lot of loans. This experience has shaped his view that we should definitely pay for a child's education. It is something he is adamant about. We've discussed this even though we have no kids...we would plan to pay for our children's tuition at a state university and possibly some extras. I've known many people who have had it all paid for, and its a mixed bag on if they abused the privilege or not. I insist the kids would have to work part time to pay for extras. Sometimes when we have discussed this, DH feels that he didn't get to have a true college experience because he had to work so much. I wouldn't want to put our kids through that, obviously, but I would like them invested in their future. If our kids want to go to an expensive private school we will be happy to help them some, but I would not encourage them to sink that much money into an education if they did not receive aid.
As for kids helping with retirement...funny how that has worked out in my situation...my parents who helped me with college have a completely secure retirement picture. DH's parents on the other hand, who did not help him, are both precariously teetering on the edge of financial collapse at any moment. His Mom has a wealthy boyfriend as of now and his Dad is furiously spending his pension lump sum. We'll see how that works out in the long run. We would do what we need to do as they are his parents, but we have agreed that we will not put our financial future in jeopardy. I think that's a good rule of thumb as a parent or a child.
I'm not sure what happens to the kids who's parents refuse to pay and they don't qualify.
This is something I don't understand. If a kid is legally emancipated at age 18, maybe living out on their own, working, paying their own way, etc.. then why should the parents income (until age 25 I believe) matter when it comes to applying for financial aid? What if the parents and kids are estranged from each other - or one parent is estranged and takes no financial responsibility for the kid. Do you still have to include both parents financial info to get a grant or loan? Like you said, what if the parents are well-off but don't feel it's their responsibility to fund the kids education - how can a kid prove that the parents won't help? Seems difficult to do.
San Onofre Guy
3-28-12, 4:09pm
A qualified yes, let me explain.
My folks told me (I am 49 years old) that after high school I would to to college, trade school or the military (this was post Vietnam). There was no question and I was expected to contribute $1,000 per year to that education. I went to a State University which at that time cost about $7,500 per year of which $2500 was room and board. I had about $900 in scholarships and I was a resident assistant in the dorm one year worth $2500 so while I worked, I essentially had school for free. I have to state that fluff courses such as SCUBA were funded by me even though I received credit.
My children are in grades 9 and 11. I expect them to go to college and I expect to pay their way with them funding a portion of the bill, but for me to fund it they understand that I will pay for four years, no more. If they make it in four great, if not they will take out loans which I might help them repay after they begin to work. I might just put money aside equal to their monthly payments and reward them when they pay off loans with a bonus gift. I am still old school to know that one gets satisfaction from earning something. I will be 56 years old when the youngest graduates. I will likely be able to afford to retire then, but in order to help them through college I will work longer. That isn't a problem. I have good genes on my side with grandparents and great grandparents who lived into late 80's and 90's and Dad at 84 going strong, I expect to live into my 90's and I believe that being retired for more than 30 years isn't necessarily the best thing for longevity.
My folks told me (I am 49 years old) that after high school I would to to college, trade school or the military (this was post Vietnam). There was no question.
My children are in grades 9 and 11. I expect them to go to college.
What would your parents have done if you refused to go to college (or any of the other options they expected)? What would you do if your kids refuse to go? I imagine that many parents hope their kids will go to college but you can't force them to do that. Would you kick them out of the house? Would you let them live at home and pay a bit in rent if they worked full time? If you, or any other parents here, put money aside for your kids college and they decided they didn't want to go - say they decided to work full time or maybe join the Peace Corps or maybe just travel the world as a grundgy backpacker for a few years before working full time somewhere - what would you do with that money? Give it to the kids or keep it yourself? Would you help them fund a dream they had - assuming it was reasonable - with the college money instead?
San Onofre Guy
3-28-12, 5:06pm
Lindi,
My 17 year old is very involved in the technical side of theater, lighting, sound and stage work. He says that he might study theater or math in college but we have discussed a gap year which I think is better off taken between High School and College rather than post College. I actually suggested that he might want to explore working at a Scout Camp in Australia or New Zealand and I told him that I would fund a year travelling before college if he would like. He also might want to travel with a rock band (my sister in law has some industry connections) doing stage and roadie work. Peace Corps is difficult for an 18 year old without a degree.
I had a meltdown freshman year engineering over my head and I suggested that I might be better off taking a year off. My mother was against it saying just tought it out and get through it. Even though I ended the fall semester with 9 units instead of 15 I made it through in 4 years.
I do plan if my kids rebound home to charge them rent, but I'll put that away and give it back to them at some point. I don't breed slugs!
What would your parents have done if you refused to go to college (or any of the other options they expected)? What would you do if your kids refuse to go? I imagine that many parents hope their kids will go to college but you can't force them to do that. Would you kick them out of the house? Would you let them live at home and pay a bit in rent if they worked full time? If you, or any other parents here, put money aside for your kids college and they decided they didn't want to go - say they decided to work full time or maybe join the Peace Corps or maybe just travel the world as a grundgy backpacker for a few years before working full time somewhere - what would you do with that money? Give it to the kids or keep it yourself? Would you help them fund a dream they had - assuming it was reasonable - with the college money instead?
For me this is a purely hypothetical question since I have no kids and don't plan to, but if I'd set aside my money to put my kids through college and they opted not to go I'd put my money to some other use. If they came to me and proposed some other idea, perhaps an idea to start a business, and asked for money I'd consider that plan on its merits and possibly put money towards it. But ultimately the money I'd put aside for his or her education would still be my money to spend as I saw fit.
My parents didn't put a high value on education, and so were flabbergasted when I told them I would like to go to college. I was a 4.0 student, valedictorian, and had some scholarships possible to me, but they refused to contribute anything to the remainder of the effort, suggesting that I instead work for a few years and save my own college money. I couldn't see how to do it on my own at 18, and was hurt because I'd been hearing for years about how they had to save such-and-such for my younger brothers' college funds. (It turns out that was not true, just sounded nice to them when they needed an excuse to not fund something for me) My folks spent tons of money on fancy furniture, trips for themselves, fur coat, etc.
Stepping away from that as a young adult, it created a permanent rift between us. I ended up putting myself through college -- twice -- and have a successful business and a very happy life. But their complete unwillingness to contribute to even a small part of the total cost of college for me, well, that has always been quite hurtful.
My parents always valued an education. They would have funded my college, without any contribution from me, as long as it took to get whatever degree I was seeking. (I know, what a waste I didn't take advantage of this.)
With my own children, I have a dd who - between my parents and dh and I - we split the fees. She was, at that point, out on her own and working full time. Took her about four years to get her two year degree, but she stuck to it. She paid nothing, and was able to use her salary to support herself and be debt free at the end.
My ds has not gone to college; he's currently 24.
Oh, forgot to mention this - dd graduated at the mid point of her senior year - with honors. She was unable to get grants or scholorships due to this loophole: "did not complete four years of high school"! Burned my hiney! There should have been some direction from the school - dd could have done college while being kept active as a student for the last half of her senior year.
Second dilemma - ds finished hs at the end of his junior year. (We already knew about, and accepted the 4 year college dealie). He got a certificate of completion. He also was an honor student, and through a summer class or two was able to compress all the requirements into three years. Later, when he applied for a job with a new company, one of their prerequisites was a hs diploma. He had to go back and get a GED to qualify for this job. Ugh!
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