View Full Version : Helping Your Loved Ones Deal With Your Anger Issues (long)
Hi All,
As I may have mentioned on this site before, I have big anger issues. This has caused problems in pretty much all my relationships, and over the years I've turned to various tools to manage my anger such as Zen meditation, and, more recently Al-Anon.
While these tools have helped a great deal at times, in the past year I've moved in with my SO and his two teenagers and had a baby, all of which has been challenging since it's put me in the middle of a lot of transitions at once and also given me less time and space to use the tools I have. My temper has flared on many occasions, causing numerous problems for my SO and me. We will probably go into counseling soon, but in the meantime, an issue has come up with his kids.
Last week, he and I had a misunderstanding and I called him when he was coming out of a movie with his kids and lost my temper and yelled at him. I apologized later, and we got through it. However, his ex later emailed him to tell him when he took the kids home after that they were upset - she didn't say why they were upset, I guess because they didn't tell her.
My SO thinks they heard my yelling and were freaked out by it, and I think he's probably right. I feel terrible about that - though they've certainly seen me lose my temper at him before, I guess this incident was particularly upsetting.
We will have the kids again on Wednesday, and I feel like I should apologzie to them or at least check in with them about it. I feel I can do that, but this whole incident has raised the bigger question for me of how I help my loved ones deal with my flare ups. I say to my SO continually that it is not his fault when I lose my temper, that it's totally my responsibility to learn to express anger appropriately, and I have never lost my temper at his kids or my baby daughter, but it simply is hard for anyone who is around when I lose it.
I know I need to keep working harder to prevent these flare-ups, but realistically, I know I probably won't prevent all of them. So I'm wondering if there's anything I can say to my loved ones that can at least help them recognize it's my problem not theirs.
Just to clarify: what I do when I lose it is yell. I almost never name call or get verbally abusive. I have occasionally thrown things on the ground or at a wall though never in front of SO's kids. It's mostly just that I yell.
I'm not downplaying my need to work on this. I'm just trying to define terms and figure out what I can say to SO's kids to help them process what happened.
Does anybody out there have any experience or advice to share?
In particular, if you don't have anger issues and know someone who does, has there been anything that has helped you detach from their anger?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Elizabeth
In my opinion, for what that's worth, I would go into joint counseling and do it soon. I think that you should for many reasons. It's difficult to learn to live with someone for starters. Add a baby and step children, not to mention the fact that they are teenagers, and even if you were Mother Teresa you'd have your moments. If you ask me, you hit the trifecta of stress factors.
That being said, others should not have to be "taught" to detach from your bad behavior. Admitting you have a problem is a start but I'm not sure Al-Anon or yoga is the total answer. What you are reacting to is a change in your group living dynamic and for that reason it's going to have to be solved with the group. I think joint counseling would help you understand the the affect your outbursts are having on your new family and conversly they will hopefully gain more insight about what in their behavior is triggering your bouts of anger. But rest assured, that new baby can in no way be taught to detach from your anger. As long as you are all within the same walls, that baby has no choice but to be affected by it. If for no other reason arrange joint counseling as quickly as you can.
early morning
3-26-12, 4:07pm
Elizabeth, I believe you are spot-on with talking to your SO's teenage kids. While I agree with Charity that your baby won't be able to detach, the older kids will process differently. Teens generally respect those who approach them as adults, and a "I am SO sorry, it's my issue and I am really working on it" will most likely be accepted. But it will only work for a short while if they don't see you working on it or showing improvement. You may also want to reassure them of your respect for their father, and that their respect for you, while no doubt damaged, is important to YOU - but only if it really is. Teens are great at BS, and at detecting it. Best of luck to you - I deal with people who are dealing with their own anger issues, and I don't think there are any easy fixes. (((( ))))
ApatheticNoMore
3-26-12, 4:17pm
1) Could learning to say "no" to some of the responsibilities thrust on you, lessen the whole need to get angry in the first place. You have a right to put yourself, well if not always first (because if you have a kid you do have responsibilities to them), of high priority. What about outsourcing some of the responsibilities? If the problem is say trying to do *everything*, maybe hire a maid to clean? Seriously consider it, it's not luxery, not when you are in that condition. Heck even hire a babysitter ocassionally if that's what you need. Babysitter and couples time? Could that help? Making time to do whatever makes you happy? What about talking rationally to your spouse about your anger and trying to work it out rather than it getting to the point of outbursts?
2) IMO your totally minimizing the impact of this on the kids and especially young kids like the baby but even the teenagers to a lesser degree (which is really my concern here. Though it may damage the marriage, a full adult can take care of themselves against the yelling onslaught - unfully formed people not so much so). There is NO WAY to make scary behavior non scary. There are no mere words that can erase the impact of sudden outbursts. Sudden outbursts affect on a MUCH deeper level than words can ever make right. You might say they hit a very primitive survial oriented part of the brain, and spouting verbage is nothing compared to that. Sure you can say "I have psychological problems with anger and that is why I do this". Honestly is probably the best policy. But this will at best impart a purely intellectual knowledge that the world is not like that, that not all people will be like that etc., but those like the baby that have only ever known that, know an entirely different thing on a feeling level. At some level if what they are told totally contradicts what they know (have witnessed) to be true you'll so double bind them they'll go crazy (if you told them something like "mommy isn't really scary when she gets angry" - something like that would be little more than invalidation and crazy making). I grew up in a house like this ... I KNOW.
3) 3rd the counseling idea. Get help. Get individual therapy also if it's what you need. Explore your childhood in therapy if you think it contributes (is it what your parents modeled to you? Then you need to break the cycle). Get counseling for your relationship if it contributes.
Mighty Frugal
3-26-12, 4:37pm
It must have taken a lot to write this post. It is very rare that I have read/heard people with anger issues take ownership. They usually just blame everyone else.
I have dealt with this in childhood and adulthood (as the 'yelle' not 'yeller') and here is what I have learned:
1. Nobody likes getting yelled at. Nobody. Doing so just makes that person want to avoid all interaction with you. And as they grow, they will either have low self esteem and not think they are worthy of healthy non yelling relationships, or they will become so numb to the yelling that nothing will 'touch them'
2. A yeller apologizing and telling me they will try very hard to do better is great. It shows me that I am not in the wrong, I didn't do something to set them off and I no longer have to walk on eggshells in fear that they will blow up
3. A yeller should when explaining how sorry they are, suggest a code word or action that the 'yelle' can do when the yleer forgets their promise and begins to yell again. It could be as simple as the yelle saying 'you are yelling again' or a hand gesture. Now here's the important part-when the yelle says this to the yeller as hard as it may be when the yeller is in full blown yelling-mode they MUST stop YELLING. They can walk away, or just revert back to speaking calmly. If the 'code' fails the yelle will NEVER AGAIN trust the yeller.
4. a yelle will just live with it for so long before they walk away-and they will walk away. Except for a child of a yeller. They can't walk away so it will be internalized-see point 1:(
good luck!
Miss Cellane
3-26-12, 4:49pm
I'm going to agree with the other posters who grew up with a volatile parent. The catch phrase of my childhood was "Don't get Daddy upset." "Upset" being code for Daddy turning into a red-faced, screaming scary beast of a person. Growing up with that meant years of therapy before I could trust a single man not to turn against me in a rage for doing something like putting a glass away in slightly the wrong place in a cupboard. It still affects me with male power figures, like managers and supervisors, to this day. I have to struggle at work not to revert to past behaviors, but to stay and deal with the situation like a normal adult.
My dad did not "believe" in therapy (I never told him I was in therapy, because that would have just triggered a yelling spree). However, at some point in his 60s, a doctor put him on a very low dose of an antidepresant and Dad became a changed man. No more sudden flare-ups of temper, no yelling rages. I think he was on one-half of one pill a day. It made it possible for me to start visiting him again, and to take care of him in his last years. Something I would not have done had his temper remained the same.
I agree with Mighty Frugal that it must have taken a lot of courage to write your post. Please, for everyone's sake, seek out help for dealing with this.
Thanks, All.
I have had years and years of therapy, lived in two Zen centers in which I meditated hours a day. Both things helped. I have been backsliding, and my SO and I will go to counseling. I am also trying to stay off sugar and to exercise more. I work on it every day.
Though I'm hopeful about getting back to the three steps forward part of this "three steps forward two steps back" process, I also doubt that my daughter will never see an outburst. But the catch phrase in our house won't be "Don't get Mom upset" but something more like "Mom's anger is mom's problem, and she's going to take a time-out now."
I appreciate those of you who are telling me not to underestimate the effect of yelling, no matter how it's framed for those around it. I know I can't. But I also wasn't able to make the choice to not have kids because I struggle with this issue and I might falter. So I'm trying now to proceed as constructively as I can.
I'm sorry I'm of no help. As someone who grew up in an environment such as the one your baby daughter is inheriting, my advice to anyone who had tolerated verbal abuse for any period of time would not be to learn skills to "deal with their anger issues," but would be to leave the next time it happened, and take the children with them. It took me years -- decades -- to heal from my parents' "non-abusive" irrational outbursts. It turned me into a yeller too, in my younger years, and I lost so much as a result.
It is brave to bring this up, though it seems from the title of your thread you were expecting a different response from this group. It's disturbing that it seems there are few, if any, repercussions to your outbursts. You apologize, and then everything's okay. So the next time something triggers you, you feel the right to react that way again. Is that right?
I'd put a top priority on getting back into counseling, individual AND couples, if you don't want to lose something precious to you. Not some day soon, but now. This week. Forgive the candor - I've been where you are, and I know it wasn't solved by someone telling me how to "train" the people around me to think it's in any way an acceptable way to be in a relationship.
Let me, someone who hasn't grown up with this, but who can imagine how it is, paraphrase it for you. I think everyone here is trying to be kind, but the up shot is, get into therapy, forget zen and yoga and chanting, but look into drugs. ASAP. Your family, your kids and step kids, are at risk of being screwed up for life. People, kids, are SO affected by their childhoods, it colors their entire lives. Think about that. It's not their problem. It's not their job to 'learn' how to deal with you. It's your job to be the adult and learn how to deal with them, without yelling.
Please consult a doctor. There really are drugs to deal with this, or counseling, or really a combination of both. It's your responsibility, not theirs. The fact that you have posted this tells me that you already know this. And don't be ashamed to go to a dr. I firmly believe most mental issues (and this is one) are really just chemical imbalances. Really minute imbalances can so affect us, it's unbelievable. Consult a dr. Get help. Life is too precious to spend it in turmoil.
It is very difficult to write your post and admit that there is a problem. Efforts to date did not work suffciently to control the problem despite your best hopes.
Whether it is yelling or passive aggressive withdrawal aka silent treatment, what will happen is that the suffering partner will detach and not care any more which is death to any relationship.
'Working on it' by yourself is not the solution to prevent relationship breakdown, get help with levels of stress, circumstances and any health issues that underlie the situation. Apologies only work for a short time and then the one on the receiving end will start to detach permanently. Children are bewildered and hurt and then detach to cope.
Thanks so much, everyone, for your thoughts.
ApatheticNoMore
3-27-12, 2:02am
Any possibility post-partum depression or something contributing? I assumed it was just lifelong patterns but ...
I would be concerned about PPD as well, but I don't know the age of the baby. Of course, some evidence demonstrates that it can hang around for years.
I second getting therapy -- for yourself and for you and your partner together. It might also be helpful to get individual therapy for him and family counseling for the girls and their dad with and without you. I'm a big believer in counseling.
I'm also a big believer in zen meditation. my husband's whole family has rage issues, and my husband has anxiety and anger that goes along with it. He has had counseling and has many skills at his disposal. Here are the things that help him:
1. having a clean, organized and spare environment (clutter and mess = stress = anxiety = angry outbursts) -- this may mean getting a cleaning person or a mother's helper or someone -- ANYONE -- who can help you out in this. It may mean asking family members to give money for this over christmas gifts or whatever. TRULY it makes a difference;
2. daily meditation practice -- we both have this and we both NEED it. DH takes an hour twice a day; I take two half-hours. We find that this is our current functional minimum. It works -- it relieves stress, makes our brains stronger, and makes it easier to observe and manage all of our emotions (not just the anger/anxiety/etc).
3. create opportunities for positive experiences for everyone -- our family took on the word "delight" as a guiding principle. When things get out of hand, we look to our word "delight." And we ask "how can we create delight for ourselves and each other today."
For a while, it was really hard. the level of change and stress we were under (as well as being in a volatile and hostile environment for 6 straight months) was very intense. our little one really suffered, but we were able to bring it back on track (and he's fine, truly).
our first bit was getting our needs met (meditation, order, exercise, nutrition), and then our second was making a conscious effort to have experiences of delight as individuals and together as a family. It was often something as simple as getting a balloon and bouncing it around the room between DH, myself and DS for a good half hour. The laughter process is palpable.
From there, we were able to extend it into more and more opportunities. Today, we have delight throughout most of the day -- we were able to alleviate the stress in our lives in a lot of ways, to speak to each other more clearly, and to simply be generous.
But we still look to "delight" on a regular basis. I want my son to feel that I take delight in him -- and that is truly how I feel about him when I think about it.
We went from being totally on edge, irrational, and yelling (which DS escalated into physicality) to being a peaceful and happy home with very few meltdowns for anyone.
It is possible. It will take concerted effort (as you know).
And, I think the idea of having a "safe word" is important. In your conversations (with their dad present, I would say) with your DSDs, it would be wise to express that this is your problem, that you are working on it, that here is how, and that they can help you by being clear and direct "EJ, you are yelling, and it is not rational." Or "Pink Elephants" If that would work better.
Whatever it is, come to an agreement and be clear. And know that you can turn this around -- whether it's with medication to balance hormones, or through getting help in areas where you feel stressed, or any other things. . . you have options.
You might want to rule out food intolerances:
http://www.allergysmarts.com/food-intolerance-new-letters/anxiety-depression.html
"When tested in a clinical laboratory that properly maintains a consistently high degree of quality control, food intolerance testing may be an effective tool in helping treat mood disorders. Following a food allergen-free diet can sometimes relieve symptoms of depression, insomnia, daytime drowsiness, anxiety, panic attacks, hyperactivity, irritability, outbursts of anger, and on occasion, even schizophrenia."
rodeosweetheart
3-27-12, 10:51am
I second the recommendation of an anti-depressant, which has really helped my husband more than anything else with the issues you describe. And he has tried counseling, diet, meditation, and lots of other modalities. But not until he started Celexa has he had relief from the intensity of the up and down emotions and the anger.
I was at the point where either he tried the anti-depressant or I was filing for divorce. We are now working through things and trying to make it work, but without anti-depressant and end to the unstable anger, I was done.
I would second idea that you may now be in PPD.
I am not knocking meditation or diet or any of those things. But I think you need to address possibility of biochemical depression, and yesterday.
Good luck, and blessings to you and your loved ones!
Our baby just turned one, and while I'm sure hormones and sleep deprivation have exacerbated these issues, since I had also had these issues before I ever got pregnant, I know I can't chalk them all up to that. We have the same stressors any blended family with a new baby has, which are considerable, but that is no excuse for me not to manage this problem better.
Zoebird and rodeosweetheart, thanks so much for telling me stories of relationships that have worked through a partner having these issues - whether with medication or meditation! While I respect the opinions of those of you who say this could kill my relationship (and justifiably so), it is also comforting to hear that having these issues doesn't have to relegate me to a lifetime of being single if I'm willing to work hard at my recovery and explore different options.
The bottom line is I think I can honestly say I have gone years (or at least a full year) without an outburst when I was meditating consistently and being careful with my diet, so I think my first step (in addition to therapy) will be to recommit to both of those efforts. I am open to medication too, but I think I will discuss that with a therapist first.
I talked with my SO this morning about a code word we can use when I start to feel an outburst coming, and he said he would try to hear that signal, but he might be too angry himself to respect that boundary. Aargh.
In any case - I have to take responsibility for working on it - with or without his help.
jennipurrr
3-27-12, 3:03pm
I first want to say that I totally agree with what people said above. I don't want my next statement to be considered a free pass AT ALL, but since I saw that you were attending al anon, I wanted to present another angle...sometimes its not you. Sometimes things are so freakin' crazy with an addict that an outburst would be anyone's response.
I don't know who in your life has substance issues, but I can only guess that some of that may be coming in to play into these outbursts. My DH and I have been going for some time now to Al-Anon as my MIL is in end stage liver disease. It is great in helping you work through your stuff and your reactions, etc...but at the end of the day its still really tough to have a relationship with an addict. If its someone who is actively using, then any time there is stress or conflict, guess what, they get to go use and they don't have to deal with reality or feel all those unpleasant feelings. You on the other hand are left wanting to pull your hair out. Definitely keep going...its has helped me to detach, brought me a lot of peace, and I imagine that can help immensely with anger. I would also suggest if you get therapy make sure you go to someone who has expertise in substance abuse/family systems.
Thanks, jennipurr, for that perspective.
I have many addicts in my life. My SO is working on his issues, but it is true that the vast majority of my outbursts come when we are disagreeing about something (or when I am just upset with him about something) and things escalate. He is often extremely constructive in these situations and then sometimes he is not. When he is not constuctive, he usually takes responsibility for that later on. In either case, as you know, all I can focus on and work on is myself, and al-anon has been extremely helpful with that.
I think that sounds great, ej.
I agree about the food allergies, etc. definitely get that on track.
Sounds to me like you are doing a good job with this overall. The first step is wanting to get better.
Wildflower
3-27-12, 10:40pm
I have a friend that has "rage" issues. When she became angry she would lash out inappropriately at others causing her to lose a couple jobs and a husband. She was advised by her doctor to do one simple thing - start eating nutriously, cutting out the junk food and ALL caffeine from her diet. She did this and there was an amazing change in her ability to manage her anger. She said without the caffeine in her system she never went over the line anymore. She also realized her hormones played a big part in her anger. The week before her peroid was a dangerous time for her. Her doctor later prescribed a drug that was for GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) which also acts as a mild antidepressant. This has helped her immensely as well....
I hope you see a doctor soon to be evaluated. And please don't let the kids ever be burdened with your angry outbursts. I had a father that raged at us all growing up and I have never completely overcame it. It's a terrible thing to live with as a child. I do commend you for coming here with your problem and I hope you come up with a workable solution for you in dealing with it for your sake and others. Please keep us updated.....
Thanks, Wildflower. Yeah, dietary changes have helped me enormously in the past. One of the things that gives me hope is that I *have* developed a set of tools that make some difference. I used to have outbursts during visits with members of my family of origin, but haven't had one with any of them for over ten years - and they've visited a lot this year because of the baby. But I think the intensity of being in the midst of a new family and many, many more responsibilities and expectations from others (I lived alone most of my adult life up to now) has obviously gotten to me. It's also made it that much more important that I learn to manage the issue.
I'm writing this at 6:30 in the morning. SO and I have been up since 3 with a crying baby, but neither of us have lost it at each other so far, so that's an accomplishment :).
It struck me today that I should simply send you a cyber hug and remind you to remember that you are a wonderful loveable human being so don't you forget that, remind yourself every hour if necessary.
{{{{{ejchase}}}}}
It struck me today that I should simply send you a cyber hug and remind you to remember that you are a wonderful loveable human being so don't you forget that, remind yourself every hour if necessary.
{{{{{ejchase}}}}}
x2
When you are dealing with an infant and a situation not just like you had imagined it would be, you're not playing with your A game.
I think it's taken a lot of courage for you to bring your items to the table to share with us. You should be very proud of yourself for being tuned in to how you affect others in your life.
ej, when those baby's get fussy fuss fuss, it jangles the nerves. i remember those days! they are precious and few in the long line of things, but in the moment, it is eternity!
just keep snuggling the baby, stay connected to your partner, and do you best. :)
Wow. Thanks, razz, mtnlaurel, and Zoebird. Your words (and hugs!) mean a lot.
I apologized to my SO's kids tonight about that outburst last week. I told them I have a problem, that I'm working on it, and that I know it's awful to be around when I get that way and that I'm sorry they were around it.
They seemed a little uncomfortable with the "touchy feely" nature of what I said. Then the boy (17) said, "Don't worry about it. It's really not that big a deal." I know that doesn't mean it isn't, but, in any case, they seemed forgiving. After that, we had a nice birthday celebration for his sister (15), which was relaxed and fun.
Hopefully, all of this has been enough of a wake-up call for me to be wholehearted in my commitment to facing this. I will keep all of you updated!
Sending you my best, Elizabeth. May you find the path to a permanent solution for yourself - a calm, curious, rational, joyous life is out there for you, I know it.
I just wanted to add my hug to the pile, ej. The externals of your life are challenging...the blended family, the baby, relationships with SO and step kids and if I recall, this move to live together was a pretty recent thing, too. Meaning that you have had a lot of things to adjust to in a relatively short amount of time (and, of course, so have the other people in your life). And when you bring to a challenging life a history of struggle, then you do have to work hard at keeping up your resources. I am impressed with your self knowledge and that you know so many tools that help you. I hope you can get back to using them the way that works best for you. I respect your courage in posting here and hope, along with pug, that you will find a place that works well for you within this complex context. And take time to take in the care and support available. Peace.
Thanks, lesliann.
Again, I appreciate all of the support - both the hugs and the "tough love."
Hi All,
As I may have mentioned on this site before, I have big anger issues.
Does anybody out there have any experience or advice to share?
I have flaming red hair with a temper that matches so I understand what it feels like to get very, very angry.
But I learned that feeling angry is separate from how I behave. Denying my anger never works. But I can control or at least direct my behavior.
For 12 years I worked for a very frustrating boss. (One of the calmest women I have ever met now works for him doing my old job and he drives her into furies often. She leaves the office and takes a cigarette break.) Since yelling at him would have cost me my job, I learned to wait for a chance to slip out of the building (easy since the phones rang constantly and usually were for him) and be angry outside. Usually throwing my shoes at a fence did the trick. Or simply walking around and breathing deeply solved the problem.
I also consider yelling abusive and harmful in a long term way as other posters have reported the long term suffering from raging parents. For me to indulge my temper and yell at someone and harm them is hugely selfish. I think you have more control over your yelling than you think. Knowing I wouldn't yell at a cop giving me ticket is proof of that: I do have control and I think you do, too.
My sister is a yeller. I have stayed away from her for decades. And she lost her sweetheart of a husband - he just didn't want to be yelled at any longer. She was married before I thought the divorce was good for her because the guy was a jerk. But the new DH was a very good man and the love of her life. She threw that marriage away because she indulged her temper at his expense. I hope you don't suffer the same loss.
I'm not saying changing your behavior is not hard - it will take lots of work to create new habits and stick with them. But yelling could cost you the people you love most so I wish you all luck.
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