View Full Version : B-12 deficiency and how it can affect you ... a bit long...
Recently received a call about MIL. Told we had to come and take care of her. Her friend could not reach her so she stopped and found both doors to her place open at 11 am and she was sitting on her bed "talking to herself". The friend freaked and took her to the ER. The next day we met with her doc. MIL has Parkinsons. After researching I found that LevoDopa (Parkinson drug_Spell?) and Vitamin D have a tendency to deplete Vitamin B-12. A Vitamin B-12 deficiency can cause abnormal gait, bone loss, chronic fatigue, constipation, depression, digestive disorders, dizziness, drowsiness, eye disorders, headaches (migraines), irritability, memory loss, moodiness, neurological damage, palpitations, pernicious anemia, ringing in the ears, and spinal cord degeneration. ANYWAYS, MIL could barely walk (using walker), given a senility test (my words) where she was to have a score between 26 and 30. She got 14. She could not tell us what year it was! Yikes! So when we talked to the doc I asked her is she checked her B-12 level. SHE WAS PISSED that I questioned her. She said all of MIL symptoms were because of her Parkinsons and that she was tested last Oct and she had normal levels. I relayed to her that B-12 can stay in the system for 5 years and if depleted .... and not rectified... the symptoms will become permanent. The doc than informed me that medicare would not pay for the test. WTH I said then her regular insurance would pay for it and to test her. You guessed it..... She had a low B-12 score. We immediately got her sublingual tablets. Within a few days... her friend call us and asked what MIRACLE was provided. MIL is walking without her walker and has her brain back.
The thing that ticks me off is the doctor's reaction to a simple question. It turns out that many elderly people are low on B-12 and are thought to have dementia when in reality they just need a dose of B-12. In reading all I have .. both my DH and I are going to start taking B-12. If you take too much diarrhea results.
So many medical conditions that are due to poor nutrition are misdiagnosed, another sad comment on the lack of nutritional knowledge displayed by most doctors. My favorite aunt had a similar episode because she was so afraid of having a stroke she had completely eliminated salt from her diet. She was fortunate to be examined by a knowledgable doctor or she might have ended up in a nursing home labeled as a dementia patient when there was nothing at all wrong with her mind other than being misinformed.
There are many prescription drugs that can cause depression, dizziness, and/or confusion: http://www.aarp.org/health/drugs-supplements/info-02-2012/medications-that-can-cause-depression.1.html A sodium deficiency can mimic psychosis, and strangely enough, many antidepressants can cause sodium deficiency. There are many dietary deficiencies that can mimic other diseases.
Good for you, speaking up and insisting on that test! BTW, be sure to take the full Vitamin B complex. Too much of one B Vitamin can cause deficiencies in the others.
Good for you, Frugal One! You've likely saved your MIL years of misery.
Tussiemussies
4-8-12, 11:53pm
Thanks Frugal One and Jamima for
sharing your experiences. It is good
To know about how damaging these
deficiencies are.
My husband an I recently started taking
B-12 since he is vegetarian and I
Am almost close to vegan. It is equally
important for people on these types of diets to take
B-12 since very little is in the foods that are being eaten.
I wonder now if my MIL's diagnosis of
Dementia was really one of these deficiencies.
It is sad for me to think about the many
People who are misdiagnosed and living
In hard conditions because of it.
Thanks for your post. : ))
It isn't just older people. Anyone with neurological problems of any type should be on a B-12 supplement for nerve health. I have hereditary neuropathy and recommend that my biological children, now in their 20's, take it just in case, although only one of them shows symptoms of having inherited the condition.
Fascinating about the quick turn around for your MIL, and unfortunately not surprising about the doctor, although in my experience most neurologists push supplementing with B-12 right away, since it is such a cheap and easy thing to do.
Not to generlize too much but for many docs, once you are old, there is little interest to investigating unless some is strongly advocating to it to be done. You provided a really important service for your MIL. Good for you!
Not to generlize too much but for many docs, once you are old, there is little interest to investigating unless some is strongly advocating to it to be done. You provided a really important service for your MIL. Good for you!
Razz beat me to it. I learned just how "honored" our old people are by the medical profession when my parents were in their final years. I'd rather ride out to sea on an ice floe than deal with that in my own decline.
Along with vitamin deficiencies (brought on by poor diet and/or sluggish digestion), depression, dehydration, and drug side effects can cause dementia in the elderly. But it's easier just to label and warehouse the old. Move along, GOMER.
OMG, GREAT story. And good for you for being your MILs advocate.
When my mother had a brain aneurysm and a stroke following surgery, she was disoriented (completely--like she saw General Omar Bradley and her dead mother walking the halls). When I called up her neurologist a couple of months later to ask her what her prognosis would be, because I had to make decisions about keeping her condo, etc., the neuro said brusquely "They usually stay that way." "They"--not my mother. And no explanation. I was 24 and young and had just given birth to my first baby, so I was overwhelmed and didn't push back.
So my mother stayed in a nursing home. She had one terrific friend who came and had lunch with her once a week, faithfully. She noticed that some days, my mother was completely incoherent, and other times, quite lucid. So she advised me to take her for neurological testing, which I did.
Well after interviewing my mother, the doctors at a really good rehab in New Haven, CT advised taking my mother off all meds (she was only 50 at the time). The result was like something out of the movie Awakenings. After 18 months of being warehoused and dismissed completely, she "came back" within a week. She was never fully able to live on her own, but she was able to enjoy her family and her grandchildren for almost 20 years, and frankly her soul seemed almost enlightened. She was so calm and peaceful for the rest of her life.
I am so grateful to that friend! Everyone needs a strong advocate.
It isn't just old people who are being mistreated by the medical system. Doctors are so often misled by drug companies that everyone is in danger of having one or more dangerous drugs prescribed. Now that SSRI antidepressants have been shown to be nearly useless in treating depression, the drug companies are pushing them for other conditions such as the discomforts of menopause and pain relief. I read a comment on AARP's website from a mother whose small child was being dosed with an antidepressant that was enough to make anyone burst into outraged tears. Lipitor is being given to anyone who has the bad luck to have some risk factors for heart disease in their family history, never mind that this drug has only been proven effective in men who are over 35 and who have had a heart attack. Doctors tell their osteoporosis-prone patients to "take calcium", apparently unaware that one of the most common, cheap forms is calcium carbonate which can cause heart problems.
I'm 66 and, I suspect, because of having a very good Medicare advantage plan, doctors are paying far too much attention to me. I've been urged to make regular check-up appointments for everything from my teeth to my feet. The problem is that doctors don't know what they're doing any more.
Here's a really good book on the practice of medicine as we know it: The Last Well Person by Nortin M. Hadler, M.D. The basic message is that if you go to the doctor much you are asking for trouble.
Thanks Jemima... I have added that book to my list of books to read. It is sad that others have similar tales to report.
ApatheticNoMore
4-9-12, 3:12pm
I'm 66 and, I suspect, because of having a very good Medicare advantage plan, doctors are paying far too much attention to me. I've been urged to make regular check-up appointments for everything from my teeth to my feet.
wow can't say I've experienced that with PPOs
The problem is that doctors don't know what they're doing any more.
Yes. There was an old book (well at least a decade old and I read it at least that long ago) called "Brain Longevity" (Dharma Singh Khalsa). Anyway, he'll have you on dozens of supplements for your brain (I seldom take supplements have low tolerance for most of them). But never mind that. He subscribed to the role of stress in true cognitive decline (ie cognitive decline due to things beyond just stuff like B12 deficiency) - Sapolsky's theory basically - and had some innovative approaches in it that could really turn things around for people actually experiencing true brain decline. And it's more hmm, so THAT is what is possible. And yet what is done by modern medicine? Nothing. And that is a crime. I'm not arguing for heroic intervention (life support for 100 year olds or something), I mean just giving a darn and being competent (it may be the system that produces the incompetent results, I'm not necessarily blaming individuals) to the extent that very ordinary interventions produce real fruit. Basically I mean not just giving up on human beings (except for at the very end of life). Worse than nothing really, half the time they don't even adhere to "first do no harm", and the drugs actually cause harm.
I really think we need to tear down the whole medical system and start over at this point. I mean if you don't have any insurance at all, getting it is an improvement, as medicine is good for a few things: antibiotics work, surgery can work, heck BC works but not without side effects, ocassionally diagnostics work. But mostly the diagnostics are poor and they just prescribe mildly effective drugs to mask symptoms. The whole structure is rotten to the core, it's not just the fact that massive amounts of people dont' have insurance, that insurance is massively expensive etc. etc. It's that the whole system is rotten.
[end rant]
Another world is possible ... :)
The big 5 benefits of vitamin b-12 are here:
It helps converting carbohydrates into glucose, thus gives energy production, decrease in fatigue and lethargy in body.
It is needed for healthy regulation of the nervous system, it reduces depression,it reduces stress and brain shrinking.
It needed to maintain healthy digestive system.It protects against heart disease.
It is needede for healthy skin, healthy hair and nails.
It is needed to protect against cancers.
So if you are not eating it then you are making a big mistake.>8)
I just learned from a doctor during interviews last week that the liver actually can store B-12 for up to a year, so you don't really have to eat steak every night to be sure you have enough.
Now, I did find studies on the internet that showed that your B-12 levels can be significantly reduced in 5 months, however.
I just learned from a doctor during interviews last week that the liver actually can store B-12 for up to a year, so you don't really have to eat steak every night to be sure you have enough.
Now, I did find studies on the internet that showed that your B-12 levels can be significantly reduced in 5 months, however.
So what do you think? Maybe a b-12 supplement every other day? Every third day?
Yes, supplements are certainly advisable but I don't know how often.
Here is some interesting information that says that it's not so much about the intake of B12 (because it can be stored so long), but the factor that sometimes it is not absorbed properly, which causes deficiency:
It is generally not the lack of B12 in our diet that leads to a functional decrease in B12 levels, it is the assimilation. Vitamin B12 has a very complex absorption process, here are a few details.
It starts in the stomach where adequate levels of stomach acid are required.
Next, a protein complex called intrinsic factor (IF) is secreted from the stomach lining to bind to the B12.
This B12-IF complex is finally absorbed at the end of the small intestine (ileum).
Each of these steps must be fully intact in order to guarantee B12 delivery into the system, here’s a short list of the most common reasons that they may be inhibited.
The casual use of over the counter antacids and increasing prescription of acid inhibiting drugs.
Poor eating habits lead to a functional decrease in stomach acid output from the stomach (that feeling of being full/bloated after a protein heavy meal).
Here are a few signs & symptoms which can be associated with B12 deficiency :
Low energy, chronic fatigue
Mental fog, forgetfulness, memory loss
Depression
Pernicious anemia, megaloblastic anemia
Numbness, tingling in hands or feet
Dizziness
Headaches
Neurological damage
Gastritis
B12 functional deficiency is quite common especially because high stress depletes this vitamin. B12 shots CAN be an enormous impact for someone who has had a long term deficiency or someone who has problems with absorption. The shot is not the long term solution however, healing the G.I. tract and ensuring all the mechanisms for absorption are intact is the long term solution. In the meantime it can provide a drastic improvement in energy and mental function. The idea with the shot is to bypass all those steps needed for absorption from the diet and simply inject directly into the tissue. The wise approach would be to use these in the interim and get down to business and fix the actual problem.
In my experience, its unbelievable (and ridiculous) that doctors don't pay any attention to nutrition and vitamin/mineral levels.
Whenever I have mentioned the possibility of low levels of certain vitamins/minerals causing some of my symptoms, my doc (who is probably one of the smartest docs I've ever had), said the vitamins/minerals weren't the problem.
On my own, I would take supplements and the symptoms would go away. (Magnesium for irregular heartbeats, for example).
DD is a VEGAN. She got very depressed and had horrible bouts of dizziness that kept her in bed. I had DH draw and run a vitamin D level and it was almost nonexistent. She began taking D supplements and I also told her to take methylcobalamin (sublingual B12) and within a month, her depression started to ease up and she hasn't had any dizziness since. We recently rechecked her blood level of D and its normal!!
If she had gone to a doc for this, the doc would probably have either dismissed it, or had her get thousands of dollars of inappropriate tests and still wouldn't have helped anything.
Its absolutely nuts to not make sure people have adequate levels of vitamins and minerals. I just can't understand why "doctors" don't get this.
Cathy, you're right--but I suspect it's because they spend little to no time in residency on them--versus the time they spend getting used to matching up a pharmaceutical product with an ailment or disease. If they're not comfortable with their knowledge level, they won't go there.
Plus, from my experience interviewing doctors, they put it off on the patients. When I've asked, "Do you recommend any over-the-counter remedies for X condition" they consistently say no, because their perception is that people take time off of work and spend money on doctor's appointments to get a prescription. They feel cheated if the doctor tells them to do something they could have done on their own. And, of course, if the doctor prescribes it, there's a strong placebo effect and it will probably work better, just because it's a prescription by the doctor.
More and more doctors are telling me that their patients want something "natural"--but I also get the strong sense they are ill-equipped to recommend anything, so they just say, well if you find something, good, but here's a prescription.
So, really, you have to find a doctor with a strong interest in non-pharma remedies, and you have to be your own advocate. I would suggest that asking to see the doctor's dietician or nutritionist might be the way to go. They are not covered by insurance, but there are many specialists who use them or even have them on staff--another reason they know very little--they delegate that part of the business. Doctors who may have dietitians on staff are endocrinologists, gastroenterologists, and diabetologists.
Given how many factors play into vitamin B12 absorption and assimilation, I don't think there's any one recommendation for health. My own B12 levels can nosedive very sharply in a very short time - less than 5 months - so I would strongly question any statement that humans are able to store B12 for 1 year. I take 3 doses a week - it's water-soluble, so any excess is simply excreted. Also, chronic migraineurs can need up to 600 times the RDA! Like anything else, each person needs to be alert to their own body's requirements and responses. As to doctors and their reluctance to suggest vitamins/minerals supplements: these are not currently owned by Big Pharma, though there's some considerable skirmishing going on now, especially over vitamin D. Now that D's importance in prevention of and treatment for many serious conditions has been established beyond a doubt, Big Pharma wants it to be safe and consistently delivered, i.e. under prescription, at a much higher price, of course! Sadly, the very limited time spent during medical training (I've read that it's a very few hours of lecture time) on nutrition, vitamins, and minerals, seems to leave many doctors with a general impression that these are not very important, especially given the Star Wars glamour of drugs, surgery, and other heroic measures.
On a related note, my little dog was prescribed B-12 injections for a six-week run following a bout with an auto-immune disease, and his stress levels and mental calm/resilience have changed radically for the better. (He was not able to absorb B-12 for quite a long time and became a very different creature) I am a believer, both for him and for the humans in the house.
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