View Full Version : Coming Out of The Closet
I know this is about being gay but I always admire the feedback from this forum and figure I'll get good feedback on this topic as well.
When I came out, it was like a check list. I met with people I knew and told them each individually. Some, I wrote letters too. I was nervous as hell and some were high risk (loose job?) but most were positive and one of my coworkers told me that the minute I told her I was gay, a weight came off my shoulders and she said I looked so much unburdoned and happy.
Well, years later, it appears that I have went back in to the closet, not be choice but I guess by default. Things always come up "do you have a girlfriend?" and I simply just said "no" instead of extending the sentence to include that I am gay.
Point is, I don't think I should "have to" come out. I mean, why should aquantances need a sentence that says "no, i do not have a girlfriend, I am gay."
I guess if I had a boyfriend or a husband it would be easier to say, "no, i am dating a guy named Brock." hehehehehe.
I do not think I would EVER want to get married but even if I had a Master maybe, I wouldn't say, no, but i am currently a boy to a Master named Robert.
I don't know if Master / boy relationship is work able for me either.
Point is, I am really not a straight gay guy. I don't want to get married or have kids. Maybe I want an open relationship, maybe I want no relationship. Maybe I don't ever want any of it defined either, not to myself, much less the general public.
So, I was on the bus with a guy I worked with like 5 years ago. He kept asking me about girls. I didn't feel comfortable, on a city bus, saying I was gay and not knowing his reaction. It really didn't matter anyway.
But, at the same time, I don't like being assumed to be this way or that way and fear that I am reverting back in to the closet maybe and thus not advancing more rights. If every gay person came out, then everyone would know a gay person and maybe give out rights.
I am not sure.
Anyways, if you are gay, how do you handle outing yourself?
If you are straight, how do you think a gay person should tell you?
I know it is complex.
Thanks,
Marky
IshbelRobertson
4-20-12, 4:44pm
It's up to the individual how much he/she tells people about his/her sexuality.
However, many of us (who are not 'gay') have probably guessed about that individual's sexuality, but failed to comment upon it!
... how do you think a gay person should tell you?
When either one of us is asking the other out on a date :-) Or asking for pointers/introductions to suitable partners.
Otherwise, it doesn't really matter so much.
Some people think labels are important. Others don't. I guess it depends on what you think. Is it important to you?
I became "vegetarian" and stopped eating meat. But then I realized that saying I was vegetarian conveyed certain things about me to others. That's OK, but now I really just prefer to say, when necessary, I don't eat meat. I'm abdicating the label.
In terms of how a gay person should come out to a straight person, there are no shoulds, as far as I'm concerned. I had a really close colleague who was gay, but funnily enough, I never expected him to tell me he's gay, and we've never really talked about it. But I feel we are close. I just get the vibe that that's how he wants it--I expect if he wants to bring it up, he will. At the same time, we had a more activist gay guy in the office, and he clearly just had a different agenda than my quieter friend. But there's no right or wrong.
You have to do what you want to do. You can label yourself, proclaim yourself, or protect yourself. Or not any of those. The most important thing is just to be yourself with no explanation or apology.
Sad Eyed Lady
4-20-12, 4:56pm
I don't feel a person should be required to give an account of themselves to others in casual conversation, whether gay or straight. If I were a single, straight woman, (all that describes me except I am married), and an acquaintance/co-worker/new friend kept asking me if I had a boyfriend then just saying "nope, sure don't" ought to be enough. I should not have to say why I am not seeing anyone. With close friends it might be different in so far as how much you personally want to tell.
Lets think about this. You aren't exactly sure how your life is going to play out. Not sure if you will find that 'special someone' and not sure you would want to commit the rest of your life to them even if you did. Not sure precisely what kind of setup you're looking for in a relationship. Etc. Dude, forget all the gay or not gay junk, the only label I'd put on you is "normal". Not very dynamic, I know. Sorry about that. Don't know what to say except to let you know life is a work in progress for all of us.
I will say that if we are close you owe it to me to tell me the truth (IMO). I deserve a chance to support you when you need support, be happy for you when you're happy or help you move the body when you need that. As far as casual social situations and simple acquaintances you're the one who gets to decide what is out there and what you want to keep private. It's no big deal if you feel differently in different situations or different groups. We all encounter some version of that. Go with what makes you comfortable. I don't think you're breaking the gay code if you don't open up at every opportunity. Tell them you're gay if it feels right. If it doesn't then hell, you can tell them you're James Bond for all the difference it will make.
It might depend on whether the person asking if you have a girlfriend is female and making sure that the coast is clear before asking you out. What about saying that "no and at this point, I am not looking for a girlfriend?'
Other than that, what everyone else said goes for me as well.
Personally, I feel you don't need to explain yourself to anyone. Unless it's in a dating situation, at least, and really in that case, if you are not interested, you re not interested. I'm guessing your close friends know, or strongly suspect. Let's be honest here, they know, trust me, they know. But everyone else, it's really none of their business. Heterosexuals don't go around declaring their sexual preference so in a professional setting folks just don't need to know. You really don't need to define yourself by who attracts you to these people.
When my daughter came out to me, I had already kind of suspected. I thought it was very brave of her to tell me, although we accepted her no matter what. I did advise her on her work situation as there is still some discrimination, but her close work mates know she is gay and everyone else, well, it isn't their business. I told her to say, when anyone asked her if she had a boyfriend, to simply say no, as that is the truth.
I'm guessing if anyone seems too interested in your love life, they suspect and want confirmation. It is up to you to determine if that person is close enough to you to let them know that you are gay or not. Frankly, heterosexuals, at least adults, don't sit around talking about their sex/love lives, so don't feel like you need to divulge your private life to fit in. It's really not like TV in that respect.
With my daughter, her work mates accept her and it's not an issue because she doesn't make it an issue any more than heterosexuals make their sex lives an issue. And the ones who do, on either side, are generally considered jokes and bores. Just be yourself, be professional, and those who need to know, know already or suspect.
You're just a person. You don't need to define yourself by your gayness. That's not being in the closet, it's just growing beyond a one dimensional aspect that makes up the you. I'm guessing you have hobbies, interests, books you read, movies you watch, ideas you have. This is you. Who you love is just one small part of you. When you first came out, it was such a huge part of your life, all consuming your thoughts and actions. But now, you and those close to you, have accepted and made peace with this part of your life, it is shifted to the small section it will live in your existence, which is huge. It's just part of who you are. Not a defining part. That's OK.
Mighty Frugal
4-20-12, 8:17pm
I'm straight, but know a lot of gay people. For me and almost everyone I know (I live in a big city that hosts an amazing pride parade) a person being gay is about as exciting as a person being left handed (which I am).
It's just a non-issue here-not a dirty secret to whisper about. If a person is gay and is being hit on by someone of the opposite sex or asked about someone of the opposite sex they normally just shrug their shoulders and say' naw, I'm gay' Just like left-handed people will tell people when they get handed a pen in the wrong hand
I am very surprised that everyone doesn't know a gay person, huh?
My husband's brother is gay. He is married (no kids) my kids call both of them 'uncle' now the older one is questioning why there are two uncles. And I explain (matter-of-factly, no hushed tones) that sometimes it's 2 moms, sometimes two dads, but most of the time a mom and dad. Just like sometimes a person is left handed but most of the time they are right handed.
Our school has it's fair share of same sex couple and a few transgenders parents and yes, a few left handed parents too!
This is so thought-provoking, Marky, thanks for bringing it here. My circle of friends is so mixed up, gay/straight, all races, all political persuasions, that it never really pops up. But in a case where you might lose a job, or (let's face it) get beaten up by the wrong crowd in the wrong city, I don't blame you a bit for being careful. From what I've observed in my gay friends, they just act the way they act, and if someone asks them a question like "do you have a girlfriend?" I've seen a big smile and the response, "Well, in my case it would be a boyfriend, but no, at the moment I don't have one of those either."
When someone mentions their "partner," it is often code for "my same sex partner" here where we live, and so that clears the air automatically. So maybe that's an option in the future if you settle on a long term relationship.
The thing that always puzzles me about the gay/straight classification is that there is in reality a continuum of behaviour and desires.
The Law of the Excluded Middle applies well to Boolean logic, but often produces a fallacy when applied to real-world situations. And tends to obscure important truths.
I think it's easier when you are in a relationship. I know it was much easier for my friends to tell me when they were in a relationship. I believe in honesty and if you are going to run into someone a lot, it's important that you tell them. If you only see them every 6 years or so, then it's not so important. If you feel you need to tell the guy you used to work with, then send an email explaining that you didn't feel comfortable explaing yourself on a city bus.
You are who you are and the people who love you, care about you etc... They will be ok with it, even it it means getting over some initial surprise for some. Those who turn their backs, are not worth your time.
JMO
THe first thing that came to mind when I read your post was that its time for us to start becoming more used to using the term significant other. Or maybe I need to start using that phrase more. We don't assume straight couples are married anymore and I for one, think the term boyfriend/girlfriend stops sounding appropriate as people mature. As a married heterosexual woman I don't feel the need to share my preferences with anyone and neither should you. Significant other lets people know you are in a relationship (unavailable) and hopefully isn't judgemental at all but leaves an opening for you to share as much or as little as you desire to.
I'm sorry that we still live in a world where you still have to worry about who you can be completely honest with about who you are. We need to get passed the point where this is even an issue. I had a friend in college who just about destroyed himself getting up the courage to come out to family and friends. Life shouldn't be that difficult. Good people come in all different packages anyone who doesn't respect and love you for who you truely are isn't worth the energy to try and get them to think differently.
Thanks for the reminder that I need to be more sensitive when speaking to someone I don't know very well. I hate to think that I might make someone feel uncomfortable around me because I've made an assumpton about something like their sexuality.
In a world of assumptions, coming out is a deeply personal experience... rather than it being a label, it's truth telling. Most folks assume one is heterosexual. This renders those of us who are gender or sexual identity variant invisible. Who one loves & may (or may not) partner with is a core part of our cultural identities. So much of so-called normative behavior is about opposite sex, monogamous coupling.
When I was lesbian identified, I gauged the safety of coming out in every social situation. Every one. It was exhausting, yet necessary, especially in the Midwest in the 70's where lesbians & gay men were targeted for horrific violence, aka hate crimes, and no one cared.
When I fell in love with a guy, I spent a year in shock as I "passed" for straight. It took me some time to get used to not having to second-guess others around me, worrying about my personal safety, etc. The privilege of being immediately accpeted as "normal" is powerful, and until one has spent 21 years on the other side, likely impossible to describe.
I've always found honesty to be the best policy. As far as I'm concerned, if people choose not to accept me for who I am, that's their problem.
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel)
gimmethesimplelife
4-21-12, 11:11pm
As a gay man, the OP's post really has me thinking. I am 45 years of age now and society has changed so much about this whole issue - mostly for the better - in the past two decades. I live in a fairly conservative city in a fairly conservative state and honestly, most people here could care less about your sexual orientation, they have much more important things to worry about these days. I think some of my more uncomfortable experiences I have had with this issue took place when I worked for an upscale national pizza chain restaurant. Almost all of the men on the floor were gay and this restaurant was located very close to many of the gay clubs and bars in Phoenix. I was the only gay man there who was not living the life as they put it, and I was treated less than for it - by the gays! That was a bit of an eye opener as I had never encountered that before.....Being introverted, not staying out all hours of the night, not living as if life were a constant party among other things worked against me, and I really felt much more comfortable around the straight folks at that workplace.
Since then, this past year when I worked at the North Rim, I was out to everyone and something really nice happened. I had a young lady and her fiance tell me that I defied every stereotype they had of gay men and that they really respected me for it. That really made my season for me as though I wasn't treated poorly for it, I did run across some of the not fitting in with gay life on this job, too. Rob
I think I would be offended if someone were to tell me that they respected me for defying gay stereotypes. To me, that's the equivalent of saying it's OK to be gay, so long as you don't act gay in public. As I see it, you are deserving of respect by virtue of being a human being, regardless of your sexual orientation. It's a shame that the young woman and her fiance felt it necessary to give respect conditionally and that we must live in a world where prejudice exists.
gimmethesimplelife
4-21-12, 11:38pm
RCWRTR - I can see your point. I think the reason I did not find this offensive is that the other gay men in the park were mostly partying every night, often did not show up on time for work, were quite public about their sex lives, in general fit a stereotype that I at least believe some straight people have of gays. Their comment to me I found soothing in the sense that I don't fit this stereotype - and there are many others who don't, I am aware of this - unfortunately in this very isolated area I was the only one who did not. I still see your point about respect being given conditionally - however, I have been on the other side of this being shown disrespect for not fitting in with the life I mentioned above - point being in my experience, gays also exist who dole out respect conditionally. As I said before, it was quite an eye opener when I experienced this from other gay men. Rob
Thanks for elaborating, Rob. I don't fit the stereotype some straight people have of gays either, but I haven't received such comments. Perhaps it's my attitude, or perhaps my "look" (muscles, tattoos and piercings)? I've been told that I can be intimidating and that I put out a "don't f*ck with me" vibe. Perhaps it's because I'm a father and have a 19 year old daughter? Maybe it's because my partner and I are both masculine men or that I enjoy sports? Who knows?! I like to think of myself as a complex person and anyone who would dismiss or disrespect me based on my sexual orientation alone is not worth my time or respect. I suspect you are a complex human being too and that you may feel similarly.
My younger sister who is 18 months younger than I am, is gay. I feel cheated out of having a sister, since we are so different from each other...I was the girly girl who played with dolls, etc., she played with toy cars and other boy toys of the era, so we had nothing in common, and still don't.
This was during the late 1930s when it was thought that children who weren't normal had to be hidden away, the same as people with mental conditions, or being pregnant...in fact I had to stop working when I started to show I was pregnant since it was thought that pregnancy had to be hidden so that others wouldn't be embarrassed by seeing us. I had to go into a different room to nurse my babies, because seeing it would have embarrassed others, even other women. Even my mother didn't watch me nursing my babies.
I think we must have been influenced by the Victorian era. Thankfully it is ok for young mothers to nurse their babies in public areas. These young women use a scarf to cover their breasts while they are nursing in public areas.
goldensmom
4-22-12, 7:52am
I know this is about being gay but I always admire the feedback from this forum and figure I'll get good feedback on this topic as well.
If you are straight, how do you think a gay person should tell you?
Thanks,
Marky
Back to your OP question. In a casual relationship, I don’t think I need to know whether you are gay or strait, not sure why it would matter. In a closer, more significant relationship I probably already know. I had a friend recently tell me he is gay and I responded that I knew 30+ years ago when we were in college. His ‘coming out’ to me didn’t change our relationship, maybe for him but not for me, we are friends.
I was involved in a situation when I was young where I was interested in a young man who told me he was gay and it was a traumatic disappointment because I was romantically interested in him, one of those ‘if I’m not married by the time I am 25 I will just die’ moments. Not his problem but just where I was in life at the time. I got over it, past it and we are both happy.
Now I’m rambling, how to tell a strait person you are gay? If you need to make a specific statement of fact ‘Oh, by the way, I am gay’ would work for me.
My younger sister who is 18 months younger than I am, is gay. I feel cheated out of having a sister, since we are so different from each other...I was the girly girl who played with dolls, etc., she played with toy cars and other boy toys of the era, so we had nothing in common, and still don't.
This was during the late 1930s when it was thought that children who weren't normal had to be hidden away, the same as people with mental conditions, or being pregnant...in fact I had to stop working when I started to show I was pregnant since it was thought that pregnancy had to be hidden so that others wouldn't be embarrassed by seeing us. I had to go into a different room to nurse my babies, because seeing it would have embarrassed others, even other women. Even my mother didn't watch me nursing my babies.
I think we must have been influenced by the Victorian era. Thankfully it is ok for young mothers to nurse their babies in public areas. These young women use a scarf to cover their breasts while they are nursing in public areas.
My grandmother who was VERY much raised with a Victorian mindset (b.1915) told me of the exact same reactions to her pregnancy.
On the topic:
When I asked Grandmother what she thought about the couple that moved across the street, who happened to be her first gay neighbors.*
She replied, "Why would I care, as long as they keep their yard nice."
Point being, with co-workers as long as you are holding up your end of the work bargain or whatever agreements we are transacting, why does anyone need to know about our personal lives?
Our culture has been so Oprah-fied that we feel the need to share every last intimate detail with the world (otherwise we aren't being 'authentic')....
I feel really influenced by that phenomenon a lot of the time.
By no means am I saying any of us should stay closeted in any regard, but just because you don't want to declare your sexuality at every blessed opportunity doesn't mean that you are trying to hide anything.
It's your information to share with whom you choose.
Edit to add: *She always assessed new neighbors moving in, they weren't getting any special scrutiny due to their sexual orientation.
RCWRTR - I can see your point. I think the reason I did not find this offensive is that the other gay men in the park were mostly partying every night, often did not show up on time for work, were quite public about their sex lives, in general fit a stereotype that I at least believe some straight people have of gays. Their comment to me I found soothing in the sense that I don't fit this stereotype - and there are many others who don't, I am aware of this - unfortunately in this very isolated area I was the only one who did not. I still see your point about respect being given conditionally - however, I have been on the other side of this being shown disrespect for not fitting in with the life I mentioned above - point being in my experience, gays also exist who dole out respect conditionally. As I said before, it was quite an eye opener when I experienced this from other gay men. Rob
Exactly Rob. When my daughter came out, so to speak, she was still fairly young (early 20's) and not savvy or hip or any of those things. It was a confusing time for her, as I suspect for most young gays. Not as to her personal acceptance of herself, she had already done that in coming out, but more in the sense of, 'what now'.
She, like most people, had this idea of how gays 'should act' or 'do act' and it's just not really her, as it's not you or RCWRIR. She almost felt she was SUPPOSED to act this way. She thought that now that she was out she needed to fall in line, either cut her hair real close and wear man clothes, or go in some other extreme of girly girl, neither of which is her.
We talked about it and I tried to remind her that this is just one aspect of the whole. She is still who she was before coming out, and didn't have to live any one's stereotype. I pointed out to her that she very bravely broke a barrier we all have, gay or straight, of trying to fit ourselves into, and conform to one of the narrow cubbies normalcy allows us. 'If you are a teen boy you behave like this. If you are a 30 something mother you behave like this. If you are a 60 year old woman you behave like this.' She broke away from that, stood up and said no, I don't behave like this. So why allow yourself to be squeezed into another cubbie? 'If you are a gay single woman you behave like this'.
Well, the dust has settled in her life. She is comfortable with who she is, and so are her close friends and co-workers. Everyone else doesn't need to know anymore than casual acquaintances or strangers are privy to my personal life.
I think as more people accept and are comfortable with gay couples, or singles just being another part of everyday life, the emphasis of their 'gayness' will not be so important, to them or anyone else. It will just be who they are, and kind of a 'so what' thing.
I think society is moving towards that, but it hasn't been that long since we started trying, so give us time. And after a time, anyone who acts a little 'different' can just be considered eccentric (or crazy if you're poor) too!;)
thanks for responses! i always find it hilarious when really old straight guys will introduce some guy as their "partner" and I just am floored and then all of a sudden I realize that they actually mean business partner. it is hilarious to hear them say it though.
rob, you are really eye opening. i mean, really, i remember when i lived in hollywood. i would go to west hollywood and be told that I need to go to silverlake to find anyone who likes leather jackets like i do. once i got to silverlake, i'd get told that i needed to go to west hollywood cause i was too young for their crowd.
really, i do not fit stereotype either. i have tried to befriend many gay groups only to be shunned (i don't party either).
i am a big introvert as well.
guess i should come out so people know that there are other types of gays i guess. even the word gay, i mean, i don't think i "fit" it. i mean........sexuality is so weird.
then i think maybe it is just an excuse to not accept myself. perhaps i haven't accepted myself.
IshbelRobertson
4-24-12, 4:55am
Gay is a Scottish surname. I have a good friend whose brothers were really disgruntled when the word was appropriated... Imagine introducing yourself as 'Hello, I'm Gay', when you're not. Thank the gods for the use of name badges!
The thing that always puzzles me about the gay/straight classification is that there is in reality a continuum of behaviour and desires.
Gender itself is a continuum or spectrum, and isn't binary either.
guess i should come out so people know that there are other types of gays i guess. even the word gay, i mean, i don't think i "fit" it. i mean........sexuality is so weird.
I dunno Marky. I don't think you should force yourself to take on something that important because you think you're gonna save the world by doing it. Do it maybe because you think it might save you instead. You deserve to be happy, with friends and with a life you like. Whatever shape that takes.
Tussiemussies
4-25-12, 7:54am
One thing Is I would be careful about how I expose myself depending upon what part of the country you live in. Some people have still been beat up or killed for being gay not too long ago.
The way you want to handle your relationships is something only you can decide for yourself. Telling others so you are comfortable and safe is also a personal choice.
I live in NJ where I feel it is widely accepted, although we did have that case at Rutgers University. My sister is gay all her neighbors accept it, she goes to a Episcopalin(sp?)
Church where the pastor is gay and the congregation is all accepting. She married her spouse this past fall, everyone was there and I've never have seen her happier.
I hope you find a very comfortable and happy lifestyle that is just right for you...
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