when relatives don't want to help themselves

[flowerseverywhere]

In this economic downturn we have a family member who recently asked us for money. Several years ago when MIL was widowed we helped her with her finances and she saw some of our financial papers. Since then she has several times said things like "we'll most people aren't rich like you" when in fact we are far from rich, just very frugal and we go without a lot. Well I think she shared this with the family member but she denied it when I politely asked. They seem to think we are "loaded."

The DH lost his high paying job and has a series of low paying ones he can't seem to keep. At one point I would have thought it was him but today you never know- really good people are let go at a moments notice today. They still drive nicer bigger cars than us and when the money was rolling in they lived quite the high lifestyle. Recently I bought over a chicken pot pie full of fresh vegetables in homemade pie crust (super yummy) but she said he wouldn't eat stuff mixed together. he liked things like meat and potatoes, yet there were take out pizza boxes in the kitchen. She said they were working so hard they "deserved" it. I e-mailed her my pizza crust recipe when I got home but she has yet to try it. They are "too busy". They have a garage full of stuff they could sell, but haven't gotten around to it. I even offered to come over and help them set up a garage sale and list some bigger items on craigslist but they might need it in the future and don't want to sell anything. It seems like everything we suggest is rejected. I want to help but they don't want help but are ready to ask for handouts.

we have continued to be kind but I know they are very annoyed that we aren't willing to give them money and I have no problems saying no to them and setting limits. She made a rude comment to me recently about how selfish some people were in front of other family members and I asked her if she meant us? I explained I didn't cause him to lose his job and we will help where we can, we just don't have enough to support anyone but ourselves. The other family members around the they seemed relieved that I said something and of course she backtracked and said she didn't mean that. They someday will learn to make choices and stop saying poor me but until then I am not willing to subsidize their lifestyle.

So how do you handle such instances? Anything else I can do? My biggest fear is they do get some money out of MIL and I can see her eventually going from a comfortable lifestyle to one that is in financial jeopardy.

[iris lily]

I think it's great what you said to her. Perfect! You are handling this situation as well as can be expected.

[CathyA]

You shouldn't feel responsible at all flowers! I know its hard when people say mean/untrue things that are directed towards you, but it sounds like you do alot already, even if its not money. I think you should try not to feel guilted into giving.........which it sounds like they are doing. It was very sweet of you to take the homemade pot pie and offer help with a garage sale and Craig's list! Stand your ground. If they can't deal with reason, then you just can't let it bother you. You sound like a very kind person!

[iris lily]

Also I would like to know the exact "poor me" script I need to say to you so that I, too, can get a homemade delivered pot pie. Please! I am in need! (Love chicken pot pies or even veg pot pies!)

[flowerseverywhere]

Also I would like to know the exact "poor me" script I need to say to you so that I, too, can get a homemade delivered pot pie. Please! I am in need! (Love chicken pot pies or even veg pot pies!)

If I were closer I would bring you one. I love to cook and made two this weekend after going to farmers market, one for company (who couldn't stop talking about how good it tasted) and one for them as we were visiting on Sunday and I thought it would be nice to show up with food.

[herbgeek]

I think its pretty rude for the pot pie recipient to have responded the way they did. What's wrong with a gracious thank you so much, you went to a lot of effort even if he /doesn't/ like it. The only thing I would do differently is to stop offering to help, they are looking for a magic pill so they don't have to change a thing at all.

PS I'll take that pot pie (or maybe split it with Iris) so it won't go to waste. I hate to see food wasted. :laff:

[cattledog]

You were very gracious to offer help and to bring over food. It's too bad they weren't gracious recipients! I think you said the right thing to her too. There is no way I would give someone money when they have assets to sell first. It sounds like they need to make some lifestyle changes. Giving them money isn't going to help them do that.

[Sad Eyed Lady]

Sometimes, I think, people really don't want help. They want to complain. If things are fixed then there is nothing to complain about, no one will feel sorry for them, no more "poor-me" talk, no more handouts. In that case it is as if they want to continue in the misery and have others feel sorry for them, or until someone comes in and fixes it all (usually meaning $$$) until the next situation comes along. Being empathetic and offering practical help as you have done seems to be all you can do for them.

[artist]

I would leave an open invitation as such: " When you are ready to par down your lifestyle so that you are able to live within your means, give me a call and I'll be glad to help you figure things out". Otherwise I don't think there is anything you can do. Nor should you do.

JMO

[Karma]

The truth is that most people don't want help and they don't want to hear what you have to say. They just want the cash.

[puglogic]

Flowers, I know you are loaded --- with good recipes :D

Could you (pretty please) post your pot pie recipe over on Food? I would love it. I am a sucker for a good pot pie. I believe I salivated on my keyboard a little when I read your post.

[razz]

[QUOTE][/So how do you handle such instances? Anything else I can do? My biggest fear is they do get some money out of MIL and I can see her eventually going from a comfortable lifestyle to one that is in financial jeopardy.QUOTE]

Not sure how to handle this unless MIL is somehow compromised mentally and then one could say and do more. Are there any other family members who can speak to MIL and caution her to be very careful to make sure that she stays safe. If a number of caring family members say the same thing, it will have more of an impact than just one party. Perhaps, something along the lines of - we need to make sure that MIL is not stressed into jeopardizing her future as she will not be able to work as we can to recover her financial security.

[Life_is_Simple]

I hear that Flowerseverywhere is throwing a Chicken Pot Pie party for all of us on Simple Living! I will bring a raw vegetable salad ;)

ALso, repeat this phrase whenever necessary: "we just don't have enough to support anyone but ourselves. " That was perfect!

[flowerseverywhere]

thanks so much. I knew we were doing the right thing but sometimes you know how you can easily second guess yourself. I love the retort to say something like "when you are ready to pare down your lifestyle I can help."

I was so insulted yesterday that I guess I had to vent. I know people don't want advice. If you mention Your Money or Your life or tracking expenses peoples eyes just glaze over. It is the easy bailout they want. But we in no way have enough cash to bail them out unless we want to be poor ourselves and that won't help anyone because they will still be poor!

I did the food thing because that is what I do. When people have babies, are sick, have funerals, or birthdays I cook. I have tons of easy recipes that I make, and they aren't really expensive. I cook extra and pack stuff up for my widowed mother in law because I know she'll have toast or crackers instead of a meal with meat or other protein, a starch and I go heavy on the vegetables when I cook. Most people ask me for the recipe they like it so much. I will start a post for the recipe tomorrow when I have more time- I am packing up the remains of the library booksale tonight when it closes at 9.

Maybe everyone can post their favorite recipe and we can all expand our horizons and recipe file.

[flowerseverywhere]

by the way I make a killer Italian wedding soup...

[Blackdog Lin]

Kudos to you flowers, on your common-sense response to the family scenerio. Sorry you have to deal with it.

But I want in on the Chicken Pot Pie Party! It sounds wondermous and fun. I will bring banana puddings. (I recently saw - on AllRecipes, I think - an idea for individual banana puddings, using my circa 1980 banana pudding recipe, with vanilla wafers and all, but making it in individual kitchen glasses. Very cool and very doable.)

BLOCK PARTY EVERYONE. What are you going to bring?

[Sad Eyed Lady]

I'll bring the wine!

[leslieann]

Chocolate? Will there be chocolate?

I also salivated at the description of flowers' chicken pot pie....I haven't had a good one since leaving my mother's house and I don't think I properly appreciated her cooking.

I'm going over to Food now to look for the party.

[SteveinMN]

They still drive nicer bigger cars than us and when the money was rolling in they lived quite the high lifestyle. Recently I bought over a chicken pot pie full of fresh vegetables in homemade pie crust (super yummy) but she said he wouldn't eat stuff mixed together. he liked things like meat and potatoes, yet there were take out pizza boxes in the kitchen. She said they were working so hard they "deserved" it. I e-mailed her my pizza crust recipe when I got home but she has yet to try it. They are "too busy". They have a garage full of stuff they could sell, but haven't gotten around to it. I even offered to come over and help them set up a garage sale and list some bigger items on craigslist but they might need it in the future and don't want to sell anything. It seems like everything we suggest is rejected. I want to help but they don't want help but are ready to ask for handouts.
Just to play devil's advocate a little...

I don't know how long DH has been looking for a job (or salary) similar to what he had, but is it possible that DH & DW know all too well the position they're in right now and they're mourning the loss of that lifestyle? It's one thing for us here to decide that the fancy car and the big house aren't that big a deal anymore, but many (most?) people in this country see purchases like that as validation (men, especially), and there are entire industries out there looking for every opportunity to make us consumers feel badly for not choosing a more expensive option in whatever we buy.

Or maybe DW/DH are in that stage of grief known as denial. Your DH/DW could well be thinking that, as the news reports that the economy is picking up, they don't have to cut back much because the good times will come back "real soon now". Well, they might....

Finally, flowers, while I honor your thoughfulness in helping DH/DW, I can see that suggesting DW/DH start budgeting and selling off belongings and paring back their lifestyles could come across as proselytizing. I know how I react to that. Let them make their own way and try to keep them from dragging others down with them. They know who to call on when (if) they want to get their financial act together.

[jennipurrr]

The chicken pot pie sounds delicious btw!

We have had this dynamic for years with my DHs family...it gets really old. They think because we have managed our money well they deserve the benefits from that. I read somewhere that there is a difference in how the middle and lower classes think of money, and there is definitely a completely different perspective coming from them then what I have. DH was raised in poverty, true hand to mouth. I was raised in typical middle class house where if money was tight we made due with less, but no one was ever in crises like eviction, etc. In my family if you borrowed money from a family member then you really borrowed it, you paid it back! My parents once borrowed money from my grandparents for a car, made payments, paid a small amount of interest. In DHs family borrowing money is more like a gift and everyone just kind of accepts that. Money is seen more as a family resource and you help people out, because you will need the favor one day since no one can manage their money. We are fortunate that MIL has been in a relationship with a fairly wealthy man for some years now so a lot of it has stopped as she is no longer in need of money and the other siblings come to her.

We drew a hard line some years ago and I think it has caused some distance, but the alternative would have been to let them constantly "borrow" money. DHs brother had "borrowed" over $2000 from DH before I knew him, money DH did not have, and never paid it back. DHs mom was having him title pawn his car when things got tight for her. It was really unbelievable. You are doing the right thing by laying down good boundaries.

I think for both of us it was hard after we made really good financial progress to not have anyone else interested in changing, and continue to jump from one financial crisis to another. We both went through a period where we were really excited about YMOYL and I am pretty sure DHs family was sick of hearing about it. I decided a while back that all I can do is live by example and I've put it out there that I will be happy to help anyone budget, be frugal, etc etc... No one has ever taken me up on it though :(

[Zoebird]

OMG bring me a chicken pot pie! :D

Aside from that, I totally get where you are coming from.

I have a family member and whole family (aunt and cousins) who will not take care of themselves. For years, my grandmother, my aunts, and even my father provided the basics for the kids -- coats, shoes, etc. But, the parents would buy every kind of toy, gadget or whatever for the family. They have a big flat screen TV plus cable with all the bells and whistles, fancy lap tops, iPads and iPhones, etc etc etc. You name it, they have it. But they can't afford their house payment on a regular basis or get the right clothing for the environment or whatever.

So, it was a few months ago when my cousin was telling me that "family should stick together and help each other" and that "those who are more fortunate should share with those less fortunate." And then before she asked, I said "Yeah, feel free to send me $300 at any time, I could use it for any number of things on the list such as our dental care, or getting new shoes for myself or DS. . ." She seemed shocked, because she meant it to go the other way. LOL

but, they aren't asking me for money anymore.

[Zoe Girl]

I think I am the 'poor one' in my family, at least now. Very furstrating. I finally accepted help from my parents so i could quit working 7 days a week. So then my dad seemed surprised that I cleaned out my storage unit and cut another bill down. I wasn't going to accept help and keep paying for things that were not essential. My mom sometimes gets annoyed because she really wants me to do things different, shop more, let her take care of some things I have handled, etc. But my goal is to not need any help after awhile. Hopefully a very short while, meanwhile my kids are okay with things. They know when I say with the next paycheck we can get shoes and some clothes and stockpile the pantry that I will do it.

BTW I will be making pumpkin chocolate chip muffins, they are the BOMB, I had some work friends over and a case of beer, burgers and the muffins were a party (okay a lot of gossip that I actually needed to know to navigate the office skillfully).

[Life_is_Simple]

Now I see my confusion. There is Zoebird, and Zoe Girl.

[Zoebird]

yes, we are particularly confusing. ;)

[Tussiemussies]

Think you have done all you can do for them with how much you have offered to do, which is really comenable(sp) and also set your boundaries with them around money which I think is great.

I would be as concerned as you about your MIL but guess it is her choice in what she will do if they ask.:)