View Full Version : And dairy, too . . .
My doc wants me to try going off dairy now, too! :(
Bummed.
I am feeling 1000% better off of gluten, but she says to try dairy too. I asked why she thought I haven't lost any weight, which I expected would happen when I dropped gluten, and it did not. She theorizes that someone who still has inflammation is not able to drop the weight. And most likely, she says, remaining inflammation is resulting from dairy consumption.
Anyone do both gluten-free AND dairy free? Dairy has been a saving grace since I am off the gluten. "I can still have ice cream!" It's hard to get my head around BOTH. I do have a friend who is not doing either one and so she is knowledgeable . . .
The doc DID say that it's really milk and ice cream that are the most problematic - that hard cheese and yogurt are probably fine.
Argh.
Well, that really just sucks. Dairy will put on pounds, of course, but there is always skim/low fat available. I would do as she says and then maybe treat myself once every few weeks and see how that works. Giving up ice cream is unAmerican!
I'm getting ready to drop dairy again because my asthma is acting up and when I was off gluten and dairy completely last summer, I had absolutely zero symptoms. I was dairy-free for about 10 years before I had DD, and although I've eaten some dairy in recent years, when we were on the elim diet I had none, and didn't really miss it as much as I expected.
Subs for ice cream:
- banana "ice cream." Freeze bananas then put in food processor until they become creamy. You can add frozen berries, coconut, etc to change the flavor.
- coconut milk-based ice cream - look at natural foods stores. Expensive, but a small amount is very satisfying when you really want something creamy! Because there is no lactose, these are far lower in sugars than regular ice cream.
- smoothies.
I actually find it more difficult to give up yogurt than ice cream. But in the end, if it's not in the fridge, I'll find something else to eat. I eat my granola with almond milk in place of yogurt, or make it into a trail mix and eat it as a snack.
Also, if you're using a lot of GF flours and still consuming sugar - well, those are inflammatory, too.
I'm going back on the full elim diet after my mom leaves - she's visiting right now and it's a bad time to cut out all those foods. :) Also, a week will allow me to prepare - although since I eat a lot cleaner than I did a year ago, it's easier than it was then. I have 3 binders full of elim diet-friendly recipes, so let me know if there's any way I can help!
Well, that really just sucks. Dairy will put on pounds, of course, but there is always skim/low fat available. I would do as she says and then maybe treat myself once every few weeks and see how that works. Giving up ice cream is unAmerican!
I should clarify. It's not the fat in dairy that she suspects is keeping me from losing weight, it's the inflammation in the body that the proteins in dairy cause. So it would be almost all dairy.
Thank you, Rosemary, I knew you would have some good ideas. I have been thinking about the sugars. And though I'm not eating what I feel to be a lot of "substitute" GF foods, as in, not daily, I'm having them about 2-4 times a week. And sugar? Uffda. Sugar.
I suspect some of it is just getting my head around it. Gluten free felt impossible, and I've been fine with forethought and planning (no on-the-fly going out to lunch, for example). I may hit you up for some of those recipes.
It will be easier than you think.
That's my experience... it is always worse to think about the changes than to actually make them.
Yup, sugar's a tough one. But definitely inflammatory. Try subbing fruit and dried fruit. I can eat those in pretty much unlimited quantities and not gain weight.
Also consider cutting out oil from your cooking - in almost all cases it is not needed. 1 Tbsp oil is a lot of calories, and you can just eliminate it without changing the results! I make oil-free salad dressings, too. I can't eat highly acidic salad dressings, so mine are nut/fruit or vegetable based. Sometimes I just use tamari.
I do both from time to time. i breathe better when I do. I eat gluten grains rarely. Giving up dairy seems more difficult.
I make liberal use of almond milk, So Delicious coconut milk, and Almond Breeze unsweetened coconut-almond milk in smoothies and coffee drinks. Though I haven't yet tried, i bet you could make pretty good ice cream with any of these--either flavored and frozen in ice cube trays, then blended, or using an ice cream maker. And panna cotta makes a nice dairy-free dessert.
Omega-6 oils are highly processed and pro-inflammatory. I'd minimize those and use good old butter--or ghee, or natural lard. If you haven't already, investigate paleo diets, which are right in line with what you are doing.
Oh, and here's a promising recipe featuring cardamom and rosewater:
http://www.cookingdebauchery.com/cooking_debauchery/2006/04/cardamom_pana_c.html
Look up Paleo diet.
Honestly, it's a gluten and dairy free diet and it's *great*. We've been paleo (though with dairy for DS and butter is also included in our diet) for about 1.5 years and it's been excellent for us.
I really like Mark's Daily Apple (http://marksdailyapple.com).
Ah, I see Jane beat me to it. :)
Well, one plus is that foods that were no-nos before I went GF are allowed back on the menu, like lettuces & other greens. I couldn't digest them before, because my gut was too screwed up. Now I can again. I haven't tried some of my problem foods anew, but I really should so I know exactly where I'm at. So it's actually a lot less scary than going GF, because now I have a much wider slate of alternatives than even just four short months ago!
I did think of you, Zoebird, with the paleo stuff :)
Dairy was the HARDEST for me to give up, but after I made the descision - it has really been easy.
It was more of a mental thing - I just thought I would feel so deprived. It seems to bother other people more than myself! Some people really flip out when you tell them you don't eat dairy. Then their next question is where do you get your calcium?!
It is almost UnAmerican! :0!
lol. you would think it was un-American!
you adapt, really.
I would say -- odd as it is -- that going vegan really changed my life. I learned so much about food by going vegan. When I brought eggs, dairy, and meat back in, i was still using most of my vegan recipes as the base of my diet. When I cut dairy, it was really easy because I'd done it before and no big deal.
Much of what jane mentions in her thread are not things that I use. Mostly, I don't drink coffee so I don't need alternatives. I'm not a sweets person, so going without ice cream is no big deal (in our house frozen berries plus coconut cream is the favored cold dessert). I love cheese, but not all that often strangely enough. It's more like a nice garnish or something great to have on occasion. I use butter because it doesn't affect me and cooking with coconut oil is nasty-pants to my taste buds. :) But, I use coconut oil for other things. LOL
Anyway, you'll adjust. YOu'll figure out a way through.
ApatheticNoMore
5-4-12, 11:58pm
I think dairy has become a bit of a sweets pleasure subsititute for me. I think: a sweet would be nice. And then: how about a piece of cheese instead? And so yea I have sweets less often and the dairy is probably making me just as fat and killing me just as fast as the sugar :~) I feel for you.
for people who don't have a reaction to dairy, it's not a problem -- truly.
for me, it's not that big of a deal -- it's just that it's as expensive as all hell here, and so I don't eat it. For christmas (in june), we get a cheese platter as our treat. Seriously -- i know it's nuts, but there it is. cheeses, chutneys and jams, plus some gluten-free crackers are the entree, and then we have lamb roast, brussels sprouts, and a pumpkin/kumara puree, and then beautiful GF chocolate cake with whipped cream (no sugar) for dessert. It's a holiday!
But, if you react to it, you can do vegan cake with whipped coconut cream (you have to freeze it first), and just have another entree -- such as nice veggies and dip or a beautiful soup!
yeah. :D
ApatheticNoMore
5-5-12, 3:24am
Obviously think ethnic food (just not Italian or Americanized Mexican). The thing is a lot of ethnic food is a lot of work (asian and indian is - and look well I try hard to not eat restaurant food very often or food with junk in it - and that means cooking, but I'm no gourmet, I'm lazy and time-pressed). But still there is stir fries, many dairy free middle eastern dishes, can do dairy free mexican/latin american etc..
And if yummy ethnic food fails there is always protein plus a veggie - just spice it up a bit, sautee the greens, add raisins, nuts, garlic etc., coat the fish with spice, marinate the chicken etc.. Gosh I must have been raised in the blandest house in the world: plain brocolli, a potato with margarine, a bland piece of chicken with salt and pepper. No wonder I was such a skinny kid, but no can't do that now :)
we acted like we found a holy grail today, when we found an inexpensive, whole-foods, msg-free thai green curry paste. we are going to stew our chicken in it tomorrow (in the crock pot), and then it's simple. take the paste, brown it for a few minutes, add the coconut water (or in our case, coconut cream and water), then add the chicken (raw, in this case, which is interesting) -- so we'll be butchering the bird ourselves because we always buy a whole chicken -- and then adding the veggies at the end. And at the very, very end, i'm adding fresh coriander and silverbeet (which is like chard, or maybe is chard, with a white rib that cooks down similar to a cabbage).
We also found several other similar pastes that would provide many ethnic goodies for us -- butter chicken, laksa something or other, red curry of course, and a yellow indian curry that looked pretty tasty. It's nice to see them without any junk oils or chemicals in them. :)
fidgiegirl
5-5-12, 10:19am
Yes, as far as eating out, at least, it's ethnic or ethnic-themed places that have been the least problematic. I need to get a better skillet and also a larger one to try some stir fries. We like them, but I have never mastered the technique, and I suspect some of that is not having the right pan. Our veggies are then all soggy. Or am I just making that up?
DH is gluten free (except for beer :) ) and I am gluten, egg, and dairy free. 95% of the time. And no sugar (we use xylitol). I've lost around 90#, depending on what's going on, and not really hungry. I'm exploring the "Eat Right for Your Type" eating plan right now, which makes sense in a lot of respects. It's based on blood types -- I'm A, and I should basically be vegetarian, and DH is O, which is the big meat eater. We're going to have some intersting times ahead of us!
The blood types diet is not actually based on good science. I was startled to learn during my biological anthropology class that the great apes also have ABO blood types which vary between individuals, so an orangutan - vegetarian, probably vegan apart from some involuntary intake of insects- could be type O. Most chimpanzees, proven omnivores, are type A. http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/health/ape-blood-transfusion-lincoln-park-zoo-medill-111239054.html. So these blood types have been around for a good 5 million years. It's true that ape blood and human blood are not interchangeable; they have differences that would kill either receiving a transfusion from the other.
I was not impressed by D'Adamo's anthropological arguments for his blood types theory. It's well-known and supported by good evidence that humans were eating considerable amounts of foods like starches and legumes way back in the Paleolithic: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217141312.htm. That's beyond 100,000 years ago, long before the introduction of farming 13,000 to 10,000 years ago. While it is true than Inuit were very heavily dependent on meat and fat, this is no reason to project this diet onto the whole of mankind - the Inuit adapted to their environment over a very long period, and individuals born without the lucky set of genes would have died shortly after weaning.
Blood types are strongly correlated with disease susceptibility, for which there is good evidence. For example, type As are much more likely to develop pernicious anaemia, so type As should likely avoid vegetarian and vegan diets unless they supplement as a matter of course with vitamin B12, which is not available naturally through plant foods. They are also more vulnerable to stomach cancer. Type Os are more susceptible to duodenal ulcers and to thyroid disorders. This paper is a little dull, but well worth reading nevertheless. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1058666/pdf/brjprevsmed00047-0001.pdf. It's possible that some antigens in foods may spark inflammation in specific blood types, of course.
At this time it seems much more likely that our digestive abilities may depend on our gut flora. It's the bacteria in our guts that do the actual breakdown and digestion of much of our food, and there are three definite ecosystems of bacteria called enterotypes. http://www.news-medical.net/news/20110428/Researchers-identify-three-enterotypes-in-human-intestinal-bacteria.aspx. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/science/21gut.html. Scientific experiments designed to change the composition of the bacterial populations through changing the diets of the subjects failed.
Fascinating ! My own gut feeling (couldn't help it!) is that personal research and close awareness of how particular foods interact with personal health, is the best approach.
We like them, but I have never mastered the technique, and I suspect some of that is not having the right pan. Our veggies are then all soggy. Or am I just making that up?
No, you're not making it up, Kelli. The key difference between the cooking at Asian restaurants and the cooking at home is that they have commercial burners which are much hotter than almost anyone has at home. This allows them to add quantities of cold food and have it heat quickly. When most of us throw veggies or meat in a frying pan at home, the cold food reduces the temperature of the pan so much that the food steams instead of fries.
There are ways around this. One way is to cook in "batches": instead of adding, say, two cups of broccoli to the pan when the recipe says to, add half a cup at a time, cook it, and remove it before adding the next batch (maybe keep the batches warm if the food will not be cooked further). That helps the pan keep the heat up.
Preheat the burner and the pan before you put anything in it (even the oil or stock you're using). It's ready when you can fling a couple of drops of water into the pan and they steam right away. A larger pan will retain more heat than a smaller pan. If you choose to get a wok, don't get a cast-iron one -- while they do retain heat very well, they don't lose it quickly and that's an essential element of many authentic Asian techniques.
If you have an electric stove, make sure your pan has a flat bottom. If you have a gas stove, consider getting a round-bottom wok and use the ring that comes with it or just remove the grate from that burner and balance the wok on the burner. The round shape concentrates the heat in the center of the pan and you can push to the sides the foods you don't want to cook further (or cook as fast).
It's still tough to do restaurant-style stirfrying at home, but these tips will help. I learned a lot about Asian cooking while I was in college, fearing I would end up moving someplace where I would have to cook it myself if I wanted to enjoy it. I needn't have worried. :)
Oh -- and good luck with the elimination diet!
ApatheticNoMore
5-5-12, 3:35pm
The blood types diet is not actually based on good science.
It always seems suspect as it's supposed to be based on genetics, but how is it that bilogical siblings have different blood types, this is the case with me (um that is biologically possible right? I assume we're legitimate kids :)).
I mean yes I suppose other traits could be coded on the same genes that code for blood type, but being that the above is the case it seems very whacked to use blood type as some sort of shorthand for genetic heritage since surely biological siblings share the same heritage and a fair amount of genes even if not the same blood type.
Kelli, what kind of pan do you use for your stir-fries? I use the same stainless pans I use for other cooking. I have a wok-shaped one that happened to come with my set, but if I'm making a large stir-fry, I use the 12" high-sided skillet I have. I don't have problems with sogginess. I think the key factors are heating the pan thoroughly before adding the vegetables, cutting them into small pieces so they heat quickly, and stir-frying only briefly before adding the sauce and letting the vegetables steam to crisp-tender (put lid on, reduce heat).
Suzanne, thanks again for the fascinating tidbits of information!
We use a 10" skillet that I hate and is bound for the garbage soon! :)
Probably part of it is that I use frozen veggies rather than fresh, so they all the melty water gets in it. I will try with some of Steve's and Rosemary's tips.
My friend gave me a really nice, basic, easy GF cookbook today and I'm excited to try it. We had a big discussion about dairy and one of the things she notices when she is on it is itchy, full-feeling ears. My sister has been off milk for about a year (didn't know this until this morning!) and said the same thing about the ears! So weird! And I always have that feeling. So it'd be interesting to see what happens.
Life_is_Simple
5-5-12, 6:50pm
I should clarify. It's not the fat in dairy that she suspects is keeping me from losing weight, it's the inflammation in the body that the proteins in dairy cause. So it would be almost all dairy.
I had problems with cow dairy. My naturopath told me to try goat dairy, because people with cow dairy allergies/intolerances are often reacting to the proteins in the cow dairy. I'm fine with goat and sheep dairy.
ALso, Rice Dream. It is like ice cream, but made with brown rice. It's really good and sweet-tasting.
I should clarify. It's not the fat in dairy that she suspects is keeping me from losing weight, it's the inflammation in the body that the proteins in dairy cause. So it would be almost all dairy.
Actually I did understand where you were coming from: bloating, cramping and other unpleasant stuff. I was just commisserating (sp?)with you. Either way, it still sucks. :sick:
...My sister has been off milk for about a year (didn't know this until this morning!) and said the same thing about the ears! So weird! And I always have that feeling. So it'd be interesting to see what happens.
Dairy products are often implicated in children's recurring ear infections, so it makes sense to me.
Either way, it still sucks. :sick:
Thank you :)
I know exactly the ear feeling to which you refer as well. The acid reflux that I get (laryngopharyngeal reflux, to be precise) gives it to me more than anything else. Some mornings when I awake, I feel like I am underwater. Eating a small dinner and never eating anything after dinner has made it an infrequent occurrence.
Fresh veggies definitely work better in stir-fries. I am thinking that the texture might be better with frozen if you roast them in a hot oven instead. Cook your stir-fry sauce and add the veggies to it to coat.
Tussiemussies
5-6-12, 7:58am
Maybe if you can make some frozen Greek yogurt, I know how happy you seemed to be able to make that. Can you eat crem cheese?
We are vegetarian and two summers ago I was very successful in makin soy ice cream that tasted really great. The only thing is you need an ice cream maker...let me know if you want some help making the soy ice cream...;)
Thank you, Tussiemussies. We might try making some of our own alternative ice creams as we do have an ice cream maker. I think soy is not really something I am supposed to have because of my thyroid, but need to clarify this with my doc. We could do almond ice cream or rice, though. Yum yum!!
I hadn't htought about frozen Greek yogurt. Sounds like it could be amazing.
Tussiemussies
5-6-12, 9:28am
Good luck fidgi I know how hard it can be in adapting your diet. Hopefully after awhile you will get really used to it...;)
I just ran across this paleo dessert site while looking for chia recipes:
http://www.dessertstalker.com/
How's the gluten-free, dairy-free diet working, Kelli?
My mom left town and I am back to no grains and as much produce as possible. I could really tell the difference by the end of her 2-week visit. But what's ironic is that the way we were eating was far healthier than the SAD -- and I could still tell it wasn't good. I suspect it was primarily wheat & sugar that were causing the discomfort... I could particularly feel it in my joints.
check out this recipe for crackers made from cooked brown rice, quinoa, and sesame seeds, flax meal - GF and dairy-free:
http://mynewroots.blogspot.com/2012/05/happy-crackers.html
fidgiegirl
5-16-12, 9:55pm
It's going ok. I have not been as disciplined as with the wheat, and so I have not noticed a difference. I did see that we can make coconut milk ice cream and we have an ice cream maker already, so that's good. I may still make yogurt since the doc said that wouldn't have the same inflammatory effect as straight milk or ice cream. (Ok, I will confess. I have been eating ice cream. :|()
Thanks for checking in! I continue to work on it . . . next beast to tame: sugar. Ay ay ay . . .
It may be different for you, but I really notice the inflammatory impact of sugar (as in ice cream). (And I've had plenty of chances to notice this because every so often I fall off the wagon!) Now that it's warm weather, I'm making lots of smoothies, which generally sub for ice cream for me. But I plan to break out the ice cream maker soon, too. I made nondairy, fruit-sweetened ice cream last summer and it was very good and fresh tasting compared to commercial ice cream. You can also use soy or almond milk in place of cow's milk (TJ's has unsweetened varieties).
No dairy is fairly easy for me now. Wheat free is still hard when I don't plan well. BUT......sugar.....I have stopped over and over. I know I need to stay low carb to lose a few more pounds, and sugar stimulates binge behaviour in me. And now Rosemary reminds me that it is inflammatory (I knew that; just need to check in with my knees).
I guess I am going to have to do IT...really REALLY go off (and stay off) sugar.
Thank you, Rosemary. And Kelli, I am so happy to hear that you are healed enough for greens again....the dairy free part turns out to be not-so-hard once you start thinking that way....
Planning ahead is so important! It really helps me whether I am eating at home or out. Today I had an appointment and knew my lunch would be later than usual, plus I am out of lettuce. So last night I made a broccoli salad (which is better given time to marinate, anyway) and took some cubed chicken out of the freezer (which I'd cooked last week). That and some watermelon made a really good lunch.
fidgiegirl
5-17-12, 5:57pm
Thinking I need another list of "can haves" because also there are a few complications with that I can't have calcium in the morning after taking my thyroid meds and there are some fruits/veggies to avoid because they can do something to the thyroid as well . . . so need to make a list of both and put them on the fridge.
We had a beautiful dinner last night of salad with walnuts, capers and olive/balsamic dressing, asparagus on the grill (tossed in olive oil and salt) and a turkey burger with delicious gouda and no bun. It was wonderful.
I need to revise my "can-have" list, too, as I'm trying a complete elimination of nuts to see if that helps my ongoing reflux. Ugh.
I made my existing list by meals, which worked well for us.
Kelli, my mom had a turkey burger w/ gouda at the French Meadow last week. Picked up one of their takeout menus so I could try some of their excellent-sounding combos at home!
I have said recently that if I had to let go of nuts and/or eggs, I would really REALLY struggle. At the moment, I am using a lot of nut milks plus eating some nuts. I discovered that I will binge on walnuts if available, so I have to be careful there. But almonds and the lovely cocoanut milk that seems like such a luxury really make my diet life easier.
The reflux sounds frustrating, Rosemary. And the salads sound great, both of you...plan ahead....need to plan ahead....
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.