View Full Version : A discussion about euthenasia
perhaps I have details wrong and wouldn't want to give information that is not correct. Sorry.
Personally, I would choose an injection of pentobarbitone over a bullet, with my companion in my arms. My dogs would not like to be cuddled in the arms of a stranger (loving though he may be) in their last moments of life, nor would I want that for them. I can't picture most cats wanting that treatment either. And an animal who is frightened will need to be restrained - how would he do that with a 90 pound dog or a flailing, slashing cat? Holding with one hand, steadying the gun with the other.....no, I don't think that's for us, even though it's how it was done "in the olden days." Just my two cents.
P.S. Kally - I think it's lovely that your town has this person who cares so much about animals to turn to for the other things he offers. We can't have enough people who are tender with creatures.
Originally posted by Kally.
You take your pet out to his home in the country and he lovingly holds it and strokes it and then fires a bullet into its brainPersonally, this sickens me. I'm with Puglogic, and would far sooner see injection as the means. I don't take comfort in death (of any kind), but when an animal is sick and suffering, I'd far sooner see an accredited Veterinarian Clinic/Hospital handle the procedure.
To add, if we had a pet and had to say goodbye to it, you can bet I'd want to be there holding it and cuddling it for one last and final time. One reason our family is pet-free, is because neither DH or I, would be able to deal with loosing a pet, and if we struggle with loosing a pet, I can't imagine what a young child would go through. Not for us. Maybe later in life, but not now.
Ack! There are so many more peaceful ways to die than a bullet to the brain. Ack!
No. Thank you.
There are worse ways than a quick bullet in the head. But I wouldn't subject my pets to it under normal circumstances.
Illustrates the difference between many (not all) farm and city people. Sometimes I have the most interesting conversations with those that raise our food.
He sounds like a gentle man. He's probably using the only quick method he has at his disposal. Maybe for a large animal it might make more sense. Personally, I would prefer a quieter method. But I still think its great that you have this guy around. What is he like in the rest of his life? Does he charge?
You brought up a good point sweetana.
I've helped my dad with this a few times with farm animals, an animal suffering it was a lot quicker to take care of it with a gun than to wait and let it suffer while waiting for the vet.
But for a family pet I'd much rather go the injection route. When we had to put our golden retriever down we all gathered around with hugs and tears and held on tight at the injection went in - that was super quick. The boys were only 3 and 4 at the time and they were in there with us. I don't think I could of let them be there if we'd had to use a gun.
I am impressed that he offers this service. There is no joy in the killing of an animal and he must be an incredible person to be able to do it in a compassionate way. Personally, I couldn't utilize this option because of some extremely painful childhood memories, but I suspect he is filling a need in the world. I can only imagine what some people might do to end a pet's life if taking it to the vet were the only option otherwise available. :(
I've shot untreatably ill or wounded animals. It's fast.
It is an interesting conversation isn't it. sometimes I think I am trying to balance my needs and the animal's needs. I will think more about this. I will probably use the vet, but we will use this guy for small treatment options and may come to feel the way he does.
Quick and merciful is the most important thing for any animal including pets. What works best for the animal should be my highest priority as I feel he believes.
HumboldtGurl
5-9-12, 1:46pm
Oh dear Dog! IMHO We've come too far with animal medicine to resort to this barbaric way of ending a beautiful life! Plus, I believe this is illegal and this guy can be charged with animal cruelty and possibly practicing veterinary medicine without a license.
A lot of animals, whether sick or old or whatever, would NOT find comfort when being moved to a strange place and being handled by a stranger moments before their death. They instinctively know something is up, especially dogs.
Also, there are too many ways this act can turn bad and cause undue stress before death. For an animal to die with that kind of stress is cruel and I really believe will come back to haunt the human in so many ways.
Please tell people in your community to show animals the respect they deserve and give them a pain and stress free death using the proper methods.
Thanks for letting me vent. DH and I are totally sickened by what this guy is doing.
An animal my not hold still long enough to aim the bullet in the right spot. That could go terribly wrong.
I've heard of a few horses being put down this way because it's quick, but I wouldn't let my horse be euthanized that way. As difficult as it will be, I'll be there with him when it's done. Having a half ton horse go down will be more traumatizing to watch than seeing my dog just fall asleep while lying down, but I want to be the last thing he sees before he leaves.
When I told my husband about this (a lifelong outdoorsman/hunter) he was sickened/disgusted by it, and the first thing that come out of his mouth was, "serious?" Barbaric, doesn't even scratch the surface, but what ever floats ones boat. Lining a pet up (execution style) and then taking aim at them, SICK.
you know I don't actually know how it is done. I guess I would have to have the details to be fair. I may have misrepresented the actual act, I don't know. Still it made me think about what we value when we put our animals to sleep.
I'm not sure where the charge of "barbaric" is coming from, done properly it seems to be a nearly instant and painless method.
I think a beloved family pet deserves more dignity than a bullet. This topic has thoroughly disgusted me, I won't be revisiting.
Lots of different feelings on this, obviously. I suppose it depends on one's view of their companion animals, and naturally there's not one right answer.
I would not personally deal well with spraying the brains of animals I've been very close to - it is a personal thing, as death IS death of course, but I do tend to anthropomorphize my creatures slightly. So when I say that I wouldn't want to come home to a dear human friend having put a bullet through his/her head to end life (as a sibling did) neither would I choose that end for creatures I've been tenderly caring for for 10-15 years of my life. I'm looking down at the back of my namesake pug's round head right now, and the thought of that sort of violent end does make me a bit nauseous, having carried him in my arms and tended his illness for some weeks now. But sure.....all different viewpoints on this and I can certainly see this man's value in a community.
I'm sorry your little pug friend is sick puglogic. Hopefully he'll get well soon.
He is improving daily, CathyA, but thanks so much for saying that. You made my day. Though he's "just a dog" to most, he's a lovely little curmudgeon whose presence and personality make my life easier, so it's worth the effort.
domestic goddess
5-10-12, 11:34am
I'm sure there must be circumstances under which this might be appropriate. But I would be so horrified bythe vvery thought of doing this to one of my beloved animal friends that I am sure they would sense my feelings about it, and it wouldn't be a good end for anyone involved. I have always wanted my pets to end their life here, whether naturally or through euthanasia, in peace and calmness, and I don't think I could contribute to that if they were going to be shot. OTOH, if I were in some situation in which that was the only way to ease their suffering, I would have to find a way to get past the horror of it, for the animal's sake. It sure wouldn't be easy, regardless.
Shame on me, for re-visiting this thread after stating I wouldn't, but my husband suggests using an axe. What do you all think? According to DH, it would be quick and fast, too.
ETA: One of these days I'll learn to stay away from threads like this, and gun ones, too. But to fancy-fie up the axe argument, think of it as "Urban Homesteading".
I think that would depend on your axe skills.
Also consider the timing difference, from trigger pull to projectile-on-target is going to be < 10 milliseconds for a firearm at the range we are talking. From axe swing to impact is likely to to be several hundred milliseconds. So you have the issue of having the animal remain still so you can land the correct blow without messing up the job.
You could use a captive bolt stunner, even those need some training though to avoid trouble. Lock time isn't a big issue there either, as you have the bolt on the target zone, but if the animal is agitated and moving its head, you can still screw it up.
You can screw up injections too. I had a Basset once we put down, and the vet took a long time to find a vein, which was very troubling to all involved.
Before anyone misconstrues my husbands "axe" suggestion as being gospel, may I say that my husband was only applying an angled sense to an already disturbing topic.
Even though there are a few different ways one could incorporate to undertake such a process, my husband and I see anything (over and above) an injection, as lacking respect. Shooting IMO, strikes both DH and I, as having underlying demented overtones attached to it, full-filling ones twisted and sick mindset.
My husband has hunted for the better part of 40 years, and he admits he has had to put a few animals down in his day (wild animals), due to injury/sickness, but in a civilized environment where other alternatives and options are available (readily available) to pet-owners, I think people can do better than resorting to such a primitive and lowbrow method of dispatching a pet. I really do.
...You can screw up injections too.
The vein problem happens more often than you might think. I am hoping that Mommie Chablis, our 13 year old French bulldog, dies in her sleep because we've already established that vets can't get stuff into her vein without a cut-down. That's nasty.
My first and near favorite bulldog had veins that were shot from chemo, so she got the euthanasia drug directly into her heart. That was after previous struggles to get meds into her veins. Fortunately the vet knew when we brought her for euthanasia that she wasn't a candidate for meds in the vein.
But that said, I just put down an agressive dog some days ago it was a peaceful process in the vet's office. He got a sedative which made him pretty much unconscious, and then the overdose drug that killed him in just a few seconds. He had big, sound, veins.
I certainly don't think that "sick" and "twisted" automatically describes the mindset of people who shoot their pets. Objectively assessing the pain and suffering of the animal and the best way to alleviate it is paramount and should come before our own prejudices.
Iris Lily. Related to farming or other similar practices, by all means, if a gun is the answer, then so be it, but we've progressed beyond rubbing two sticks together to start a fire, so I think our actions towards such should reflect that progression. We've progressed past walking with our knuckles dragging on the ground...
treehugger
5-11-12, 11:55am
We've progressed past walking with our knuckles dragging on the ground...
But if knuckle dragging is traditional (for the human race), doesn't that automatically make it preferable?
Kara
But if knuckle dragging is traditional (for the human race), doesn't that automatically make it preferable?
KaraNot if you figure in evolution it's not.
jennipurrr
5-11-12, 12:34pm
I have heard people justify shooting a pet by saying that a 25 cent bullet is just as effective as a $25 shot. I think that kind of attitude makes me sad...farm animals, or aggressive animals are one thing, but a family pet deserves some dignity in my opinion. I have had to have several pets euthanised and I do think they had some comfort by me holding them in their last moments. I know it was comforting to me, I couldn't deal with my pet's brains blown out. Guns aren't used for people requesting euthanasia and I can't imagine that animals would choose that method to die even though it may be quick and painless. Others may disagree, that is fine, its just my personal opinion. It is actually illegal to shoot a companion animal in my state, however it is rarely enforced, and I don't believe it would be an issue if someone were putting down and old or sick animal.
My vet doesn't charge for euthanasia for animals who are established patients anyway, so the financial argument I have heard (not on this thread, IRL) is pretty much a moot point for me.
Originally posted by Jennipurrr.
Guns aren't used for people requesting euthanasia and I can't imagine that animals would choose that method to die:+1: Well said, and great point. Too bad those behind the trigger don't think about "the reversal of fortunes"...
Too bad so much vilification of other folks is happening in this thread.
I can't help but add a few things here.
A bullet to the brain or an injection in the vein makes very little difference to an animal. They don't know, unless it's a dog with a fear of guns already. If you asked them which they'd prefer they'd probably scream "NEITHER!!! let me live!"
Rural vs. Urban opinions is very obvious here. When you're on a farm with livestock sometimes you have to make hard calls. Just like a doctor would. I've bawled my eyes out countless times when i knew an animal wasn't going to make it, especially when it was pregnant and decisions had to be made quickly to save the baby. Living with and caring for animals is not for the faint of heart.
Lastly, vets mess up. A bullet doesn't. That sounds horrible, but what's FAR, FAR more horrible is taking your beloved 30+ year old horse to the vet to have him put down, only to have him awaken while you were taking him to his "burial" spot. That brings me to tears even now imagining it. This happened to my father. It was his horse that he'd had for all those 30 something years. He'd taken it to the vet because it was so loved, he did not, could not, do it himself. And in the end, he still had to.
To sum up, whatever the method, it's an unfortunate situation.
Both methods are very sad - I'm sure someone who is experienced and trained could do the job effectively. That said I don't think handing someone a gun will make them a proficient dispatcher of animals any more than handing someone a hypodermic would make them an effective vet. Whoever is doing it really needs to know what they are doing.
Like raeann said, one's feelings about this probably has to do with how one was raised and in what environment, with animals.
Guns have alot of excess baggage associated with them, so alot of people might feel its just too violent.
I, personally, don't have my pets euthanized. I think we have to be with them until nature takes them.
I did have a stray euthanized last year, because she was so disabled. I was sort of mad at myself, because she probably would have died at home an hour later.
I know people feel that its inhumane to NOT have them put to death when they are suffering. We all have different feelings about this and just need to do what we're comfortable with.
For me.........its just being with them until they go naturally.
Here! This is exactly what gives using guns to dispatch animals a bad name! Professionals at their best! Sick, twisted, demented! To add, if this is the best a few professionals can do, I can only imagine what goes on in people backyards and property.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZMetrxu-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3W8WwENvBU
Anyhow, I'm outta here and will not be back for a third round visit. Thing to remember is, shooting, is quick and painless.
P.S. In the cow video, my husband asked me to make mention of how heavily the cow is breathing right after the first series of shots were fired (into it), you can see it expelling erratic breaths. That's because it's coughing-up blood! It's bleeding internally! It's gasping for air! Trying to clear it's lungs! A pleasant site isn't it? Here's to dispatching animals/pets with a bullet!
Mrs-M - you are most immoderate for a moderator.
I have a wonderful Basset Hound, she's 10 years old. I think she'll either die this week, or I'll have to put her down, she's stopped eating. I may have to do it myself, as our vet is off-island recovering from surgery for a horrible infection from a cat bite, and there is nobody to cover, unless I get my mother, a nurse, to come by and do something. Not looking forward to this.
It is quite hurtful to see you accusing others of being "sick, twisted, and demented" for simply trying to do what they can to ease the suffering of their beloved companion. You don't know their circumstances, or what is going through their mind. But you presume to judge.
treehugger
5-15-12, 2:56pm
So sorry about your beloved Basset, bae. We all know what we sign up for each time we adopt an animal (we know they won't outlive us), but that doesn't make it easier. In the end though, after all the sadness, I always come back to this: it's worth it. They add so much to our daily lives that I simply can't imagine living in an animal-free house. Anyway, that's a side track from the thread topic, but it has been on my mind lately (with a cat newly diagnosed with lymphoma).
I have thankfully not had to (yet) make the decision to euthanize, but I know it's coming. I certainly won't be choosing the bullet method, but compassion and respect can take many forms, and I believe it's possible to dispatch an animal respectfully and compassionately by different means, depending on circumstances. Needs must.
Kara
We had to put down our 16 year old border collie a few years ago. She was deaf, blind and in constant pain. She couldn't stand up without great effort and couldn't maintain her balance when she was upright. We took her to the vet and had her euthanized while I held her.
If we had not had the availability and resources necessary to have it done there, I would have put her down myself with a gun. Not because I'm cruel or in-sensitive, but because we loved her enough to take away her pain.
For those who need to be judgmental, judge us on our intentions rather than our methods.
Wildflower
5-15-12, 11:12pm
I've had many cats and dogs over the years. Some died naturally and some had to be euthanized due to their suffering and often on my vet's recommendation. That being said I live several miles from my vet, but have yet to experience an emergency type situation with my pets where I was unable to take the time to drive to the vet's - my neighbors though have had the unfortunate fate of having to end their pet's life quickly to save it from incredible suffering.
Our closest neighbors' little dog somehow managed to impale himself on their fence, a very safe fence I might add. He was screaming in excruciating pain, there was no saving him, no way to remove him from the fence without more horrible damage to his little body. I was there, I saw it. There was no waiting on a vet to arrive from miles away to give him an injection. The husband did the only thing he could in this horrific situation, went in the house retrieved his gun and ended the dog's suffering with one well placed shot while tears streamed down his face.... It was the ONLY humane thing to do in this situation.
Another neighbor had to quickly put her cat down after being ran over by a car. Again, it was too long to wait for the vet to come and excruciating for the cat to try and transport it there. One gunshot instantly ended it's misery.
Mrs-M, I did not view the videos you posted above because I simply couldn't and I don't think that is what we are discussing here anyway. I would just like you to put yourself in someone else's shoes that has no other alternative but to end the extreme suffering of their animal quickly and humanely when a vet is not available. It is obvious you have never experienced this, so really you can't and shouldn't judge others so severely. When you love a pet as deeply as most of us here do you will do whatever is necessary and best for that pet no matter what. Again, I've never had to shoot any of my dogs or cats, but you can bet with all the love in my heart I would do whatever I needed to do to end that animal's suffering if need be to the best of my ability. Not everyone has a vet nearby. Anyone that lives rural or somewhat rural like I do have to be prepared to face anything when it comes to pet or farm animal emergencies.
After spending one last day in the sun in the garden today, it was time.
Avē atque valē, Lily.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rHehk0zt3Hw/SjcXQIR2BiI/AAAAAAAAAMU/JHIJCAmDUQY/s576/lil1.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NkoqXV-wrzw/SjcXWyEagkI/AAAAAAAAAMY/56VNx6iFA_4/s576/lil3.jpg
Wildflower
5-16-12, 2:12am
I'm so sorry, bae.
Beautiful dog. I have a Lily too.
May the good memories comfort you in time...
Wildflower
5-16-12, 2:24am
I've had many cats and dogs over the years. Some died naturally and some had to be euthanized due to their suffering and often on my vet's recommendation. That being said I live several miles from my vet, but have yet to experience an emergency type situation with my pets where I was unable to take the time to drive to the vet's - my neighbors though have had the unfortunate fate of having to end their pet's life quickly to save it from incredible suffering.
Our closest neighbors' little dog somehow managed to impale himself on their fence, a very safe fence I might add. He was screaming in excruciating pain, there was no saving him, no way to remove him from the fence without more horrible damage to his little body. I was there, I saw it. There was no waiting on a vet to arrive from miles away to give him an injection. The husband did the only thing he could in this horrific situation, went in the house retrieved his gun and ended the dog's suffering with one well placed shot while tears streamed down his face.... It was the ONLY humane thing to do in this situation.
Another neighbor had to quickly put her cat down after being ran over by a car. Again, it was too long to wait for the vet to come and excruciating for the cat to try and transport it there. One gunshot instantly ended it's misery.
Mrs-M, I did not view the videos you posted above because I simply couldn't and I don't think that is what we are discussing here anyway. I would just like you to put yourself in someone else's shoes that has no other alternative but to end the extreme suffering of their animal quickly and humanely when a vet is not available. It is obvious you have never experienced this, so really you can't and shouldn't judge others so severely. When you love a pet as deeply as most of us here do you will do whatever is necessary and best for that pet no matter what. Again, I've never had to shoot any of my dogs or cats, but you can bet with all the love in my heart I would do whatever I needed to do to end that animal's suffering if need be to the best of my ability. Not everyone has a vet nearby. Anyone that lives rural or somewhat rural like I do have to be prepared to face anything when it comes to pet or farm animal emergencies.
And I wanted to say about my post above that I hope I don't sound judgemental. I just know that when you love an animal deeply you will go to any length to do what is right for it, according to the circumstances. Circumstances that sometimes you could have only imagined in your worst nightmares....
This thread has been very sad for me to read. Very disappointing to read some of the reactions here. I thought there would be more empathy here for different situations, more open minds....
So sorry for your loss Bae. Losing a pet is so very hard.
Oh Lily, uber hound, RIP.
We've heard stories about Lily over the years and know that she was an important part of your family.
oh I am so sad about Lily. But I bet she had a heck of a life.
Come on Mrs. M - this is not what anyone is talking about.
Here! This is exactly what gives using guns to dispatch animals a bad name! Professionals at their best! Sick, twisted, demented! To add, if this is the best a few professionals can do, I can only imagine what goes on in people backyards and property.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZMetrxu-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3W8WwENvBU
Anyhow, I'm outta here and will not be back for a third round visit. Thing to remember is, shooting, is quick and painless.
P.S. In the cow video, my husband asked me to make mention of how heavily the cow is breathing right after the first series of shots were fired (into it), you can see it expelling erratic breaths. That's because it's coughing-up blood! It's bleeding internally! It's gasping for air! Trying to clear it's lungs! A pleasant site isn't it? Here's to dispatching animals/pets with a bullet!
jennipurrr
5-17-12, 10:15am
Bae, so sorry to hear about your beloved Lily.
What a good girl Lily was, and a good caretaker you are. I aspire to be able to take care of my creatures with the same respect when they reach the end of their time here.
treehugger
5-17-12, 12:49pm
Come on Mrs. M - this is not what anyone is talking about.
She's pointedly said she isn't coming back to this thread for the 3rd, 4th or whatever time, so there's no point in trying to have a dialog.
Kara
After spending one last day in the sun in the garden today, it was time.
Avē atque valē, Lily.
So sorry to hear about your pup Bae. She can now join the 8 pets I've had to put to sleep these past 10 year over the Rainbow Bridge!! They're waiting for Lily, their new playmate!
As for shooting a pet - nope, no way. Only way I'd ever do that is if I was a long way from help (like off hiking with my dog) and she was so badly injured that there was no other choice (I carry a gun when I hike for protection from man and beasts - and beastly men :-)!). Also a direct shot to an animal can cause more harm then good. First, depending on the gun and ammo used as well as the size of the pet, the bullet may not penatrate the skull and will cause the surrounding head tissue to literally explode (and the fur to possibly catch on fire) leaving your pet to be in torment and agony. And also, even if it does penatrate the skull and enter the brain, it may go right thru the brain and not do enough damage to actually kill the animal instantaniously. Again, leaving it in torment. Secondly, it's dangerous to the shooter as a close range shot can cause blow back of both the metal from the bullet fragments but shards of sharp skull fragments at high velocity right back at the shooter - not to mention the blood, brain and skin tissue that will blow back. You also need to worry about where the bullet exits. that could harm people nearby, as well as travel thru out the pets body before exiting - again, not killing the pet instantly. So no, no way! It's cruel, harmful, and not the soothing, comforting, quiet death in my arms my beloved pets deserve.
boss mare
5-26-12, 11:56pm
I have to weigh in here Mrs M Sorry but as a person who has seen chemical euthanaisa go south Death is not pretty a "shot of the pink stuff" well sometimes it is not as easy as one imagines . And even the best vets can have one go bad An animal with poor circulation is one reason
With horses there are many reason to be have to use a firearm to put one down.... One: out riding in the mountains or other remote areas the horse falls and breaks a leg is it really humane or logical to have a vet try and get out to help? What a about being in the mountains? Airflight a vet out there?
I did witness a vet that did put a horse down with a gun ... The horse was very old and should been put down along time ago ( not my horse) The owner put it off.. well the horse went down in a stall and could not get back up. The horse panicked and managed to tear himself up and break the stall walls down, scaring and injuring the horse in the next stall. The vet came out He was not going to go inot a small closed in area ( 12x12) with a 1200+ pound animal with that has a flight or fight instinct. The horse was shot.
It is my belief that every horse person should know how to put a horse down with a gun... I do... I but never have.... hopefully never have to but I will if the need arises
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