View Full Version : People not canceling for study group with enough advance notice
I had put together a three-person study group (me and two others) for my second go at the customs brokers exam. One is a coworker from a different department, and another local woman. We were down for 9 am every Saturday morning at my office (central location), aside from next week when I was out of town for the day.
The problem - the other two kept canceling only 20 minutes before were supposed to start. Last week and today, the other local woman, who is recovering from some long-term health problems, canceled because she wasn't feeling well. My coworker didn't show up two weeks ago because she had a migraine and today it was something with her youngest kid (teenager).
We've all got a half hour drive to meeting place. All I asked is that if they know they're not going to make it, please let me know before 8:30 so I don't make the drive for nothing. Nope, that didn't sink in for some reason. All cancellations have been via text messages. Two Saturdays ago the coworker didn't bother telling me at all until after we were something like two hours into studying. She had promised two employees (she's a manager) that she would help them with something (we have a few people who regularly work Saturdays). She didn't bother calling them at all.
Today I went into the office at 8 to get a few things done before the study group. Both woman texted me telling me they couldn't make it. I stayed in the office for another hour working on a few things before I went home.
When I got home, after some thought, I disbanded the study group. I cited sporadic attendance and late notifications of not making it. I'll be kinder to myself now being able to sleep in a bit on Saturday mornings (I've been working long hours). I'm not going to waste my time at the office on Saturdays since no one else is able to notify in advance they won't make it. I'm better studying on my own, and I don't have to haul my extremely heavy books, which makes me very happy. :devil:
Just a note: got my official letter yesterday - my score, as I had been advised verbally, was 66.67%. Minimum needed to pass is 75%. Of the just under 1400 people who took the exam across the US, only 12 (yes, that is correct!) passed. Originally, it was just one (!) who passed, but then Customs gave everyone credit for two questions, and then 11 more people passed. Highest passing score was only 82% which is very low. Last October's exam had a pass rate of 25%, so this wild swing with a pass rate of around 1% for April was unprecedented. Everyone is up in arms about it in the international transportation community. I've emailed my national elected officials (Senator, Congressman), as well as the local AND national customs brokers association. I received a response from the president of the local brokers association yesterday. He has been hearing complaints from all sides. At least the trade groups, since they meet with Customs on a fairly regular basis, will pass along our concerns.
I hear you. :)
I never had a study group in law school because I find study groups to be annoying.
First, most of the group would meet and spend the first half hour hashing out how "hard" school was and how much homework they had. Then, we would have a brief discussion (about 30 minutes) on what to order to eat. This would be followed by who should order and how we'd pay. Then, the order would be made. Then, we would discuss the order in which we wanted to study the subjects. THis would bring on a good amount of debate. The food would arrive, and we would eat, spending that time gossiping. After eating, we would go back to the first topic -- which is not to say to study the subject that we had chosen to study first, but rather, to talk about how "hard" law school is and how much work it is. Study group started around 3:30 and went until 6:30, but no work was done in that time.
I left after that, because apparently the study group continued on beyond 6:30 because law school is hard and there's a lot of work. Never went back to study group again. I did inform them that I wouldn't be able to.
I tended to study between classes, and then after classes, I would study for an additional hour or so. I would swim for 30-45 minutes before and after school, and then I would go to work (teaching yoga) in the evenings and weekends. I did just fine.
I also never outlined until the end ofthe semester, never did flash cards, and focused on doing my reading/briefing and going to class. I never missed class. Class was everything. And, it was fun.
But study group? Just a waste of time.
Sorry this crew wasn't more dedicated. When you get a *good* study group going, it's awesome. :)
Ugh, ZB! I started doing some flashcards, but it was getting to be too many.
Neither woman has really worked on the import side, and I also felt like I was answering way too many incredibly basic questions, rather than actually concentrating in the topics to study. I've found additional resources on Customs' website to help with sticky points (textiles are complicated!) and I'm paying much closer attention at work when others are talking about what they're handling. I've come across situations I need to know more about for the exam that I do more research on. I'm better working at my own pace.
thing is, the outlines for law school get out of hand if you do them weekly. you end up with an overblown outline. my semester ones were only 6-7 pages long, and if I made flash cards (not really my bag, honestly), I would make abotu 4 per class. People seriously think I'm nuts.
Can't blame them really.
Sounds like a confusing topic, considering the passing rates. Glad you have a system that works for you, and that you are in the industry so you can learn/observe on the job. that helps heaps!
Wow, that would totally annoy me, Tradd! I'm glad you decided early on to just disband the study group and do it alone. Sounds like it is in your own best interest.
Much like Zoebird, I am not a big fan of study groups -- I tend to learn more when I'm on my own. Yet, for some reason I felt compelled to volunteer to coordinate the new reading and discussion group for my Tae Kwon Do school. I hope this doesn't turn into a similar situation to what you've just faced with people canceling at the last minute or just not showing up. We're assigned a book to read each month and then are supposed to gather for a 90-minute discussion either before or after a designated Tae Kwon Do class. I hope all the students who have told me they can't wait to participate will actually do the reading and show up otherwise I'm going to be extremely annoyed.
fidgiegirl
5-20-12, 10:04am
Same thing happened to me once, except that it was an HOUR'S drive one way. After two weeks of that, I was done with that group. It truly is amazing. And then people can't even make a voice call so that at least they could interrupt you en route. With a text, you're gonna get there before you can even see it! You made the right choice, 100%.
Hi Tradd,
I'm really working on saying this the right way so please bear with me. Having read your posts for many years now, have you noticed how many people fail to meet your expectations?
This attempt at a study group is just the latest in a long string of interactions with people about which you've posted.
It seems like you are a self sufficient, driven, focused woman and I find that quite refreshing. I can see though how other people's priorities will likely not match yours and that seems to cause you a great deal of frustration.
Things to think about.
Cecilia
I know it's often true of my expectations. I hold myself to a high standard, and it has taken me a long time to have more "realistic" expectations of others. That is to say, not that these people are in any way "lesser" but that they work differently than I do, and have different priorities. So, understanding this, i have more realistic expectations of them. This is particularly helpful in my work environment.
I'm also glad that I own my own business. :D
Hi Tradd,
One of these things about these boards is, because they are fairly anonymous, sometimes people are willing be a little bit more blunt with us than they would be if they had to see us face to face. Sometimes when they do that, with the limited information they have, they are totally off and sometimes, I think, that limited information gives them the ability to see our blind spots pretty darn clearly. I know you were just venting here - and I think you have every right to be irritated by the study group members' behavior, but I, too, have noticed how many of your posts focus on the flaws of others - from your old, disastrous roommate, the fiance/wife of your friend's son, and now these people.
My take is that many, many people in the world - in fact, MOST - are inconsiderate, ignorant, or just plain immature, but given the limited time I have on this earth, how much time do I want to spend focusing on that? Actually, I should mention that I've spent a LOT of time in my life focusing on that and now am really, really trying to "put down the microscope and pick up the mirror" (an Al-Anon slogan). I have enough flaws of my own that need my time and attention, and I think, for me, focusing on others' flaws has just been a way I've avoided my own.
Also, when I am dissapointed in others' behavior, I try to consider how, given that, I might help. Many of the people you are frustrated with are much younger than you, some in their twenties. When I was in my twenties, I meant well, but definitely irritated and alienated a lot of people with my self-centeredness, inconsideration, and just plain ignorance. I was lucky to have a lot of more mature friends and relatives around me who were generous enough to help me grow up instead of ostracizing me for my immature ways. My ideal now (which I don't always attain) when I meet twenty-somethings (or older folks) as ignorant as I was is to try to show that same generosity. This can be done with a little honesty and a lot of support.
You are obviously an intelligent, good-hearted, independent woman with a strong sense of right and wrong, and I hope you can hear these comments in the spirit in which they are meant. I appreciate your presence on this board, and definitely believe you have a right to come here and blow off steam just like the rest of us do. But when Cecilia stuck her neck out so bravely to say what she said, I felt I understood where she was coming from and wanted to say so. I know many people on this board have given me some much needed "tough love" at times, so I though maybe this was my turn to offer the same.
All best,
Elizabeth
I read it more as "how annoying. luckily, I can study on my own and feel confident in doing so." Not really that these people were seriously flawed and i'm disappointed in them.
goldensmom
5-20-12, 10:48pm
Speaking of expectations....just this morning I was sitting in the car waiting for my husband thinking to myself that most of my life has been spent waiting for people because I expect others to be early or on time as I am. I expect others to drive the speed limit as I do, I expect people to cancel an appointment (study group attendance) as per agreement as I would. My expectations of others to behave as I would has caused me disappointment and frustration. My expectations assume that I am right and most of the time I find that upon examination of the issue that I am within sociably acceptable norms. It rarely dawns on me how I may not be meeting other people's expectations so I need to relax and give everyone a break including myself and not expect others to behave as I think they should.
Your situation, Tradd. Not knowing all the details of the relationships, is it possible that they said yes to your proposal for a study group because they did not want say no to you or that they did not want to disappoint you and then cancelling because they really didn't want to do it?
I read it more as "how annoying. luckily, I can study on my own and feel confident in doing so." Not really that these people were seriously flawed and i'm disappointed in them.
Thank you for getting it right.
Speaking of expectations....just this morning I was sitting in the car waiting for my husband thinking to myself that most of my life has been spent waiting for people because I expect others to be early or on time as I am. I expect others to drive the speed limit as I do, I expect people to cancel an appointment (study group attendance) as per agreement as I would. My expectations of others to behave as I would has caused me disappointment and frustration. My expectations assume that I am right and most of the time I find that upon examination of the issue that I am within sociably acceptable norms. It rarely dawns on me how I may not be meeting other people's expectations so I need to relax and give everyone a break including myself and not expect others to behave as I think they should.
Your situation, Tradd. Not knowing all the details of the relationships, is it possible that they said yes to your proposal for a study group because they did not want say no to you or that they did not want to disappoint you and then cancelling because they really didn't want to do it?
THEY were the ones coming to me. Coworker kept asking if we could study together. The other woman contacted me off the email list for our exam prep place and asked if we could get a group together when she discovered I was local. The coworker also bailed on two employees she supervises (she had told them she would assist them with something that Saturday).
You write about "giving everyone a break and relaxing expectations." When I hear that, it equals being a doormat and letting people treat me like dog poo. One or both canceled three weeks in a row. Should I have given it two months? I nicely let them know their late notification was not acceptable and asked them to let me know by 8:30. They couldn't do that. So am I supposed to just sit in the office waiting for them to show when I could still have been in bed or studying at home? These are both women in their late 40s (I'm a few years younger).
Interactions, whether business or social, have two sides. It takes two to make it work. There is absolutely no reason to put up with people who continually treat you like dog poo, take advantage of you, or are simply too much to handle (as in the case of addiction or mental illness). I wouldn't put up with the lateness, canceling, etc., of someone I knew in a purely social context.
Hi Tradd,
One of these things about these boards is, because they are fairly anonymous, sometimes people are willing be a little bit more blunt with us than they would be if they had to see us face to face. Sometimes when they do that, with the limited information they have, they are totally off and sometimes, I think, that limited information gives them the ability to see our blind spots pretty darn clearly. I know you were just venting here - and I think you have every right to be irritated by the study group members' behavior, but I, too, have noticed how many of your posts focus on the flaws of others - from your old, disastrous roommate, the fiance/wife of your friend's son, and now these people.
My take is that many, many people in the world - in fact, MOST - are inconsiderate, ignorant, or just plain immature, but given the limited time I have on this earth, how much time do I want to spend focusing on that? Actually, I should mention that I've spent a LOT of time in my life focusing on that and now am really, really trying to "put down the microscope and pick up the mirror" (an Al-Anon slogan). I have enough flaws of my own that need my time and attention, and I think, for me, focusing on others' flaws has just been a way I've avoided my own.
Also, when I am dissapointed in others' behavior, I try to consider how, given that, I might help. Many of the people you are frustrated with are much younger than you, some in their twenties. When I was in my twenties, I meant well, but definitely irritated and alienated a lot of people with my self-centeredness, inconsideration, and just plain ignorance. I was lucky to have a lot of more mature friends and relatives around me who were generous enough to help me grow up instead of ostracizing me for my immature ways. My ideal now (which I don't always attain) when I meet twenty-somethings (or older folks) as ignorant as I was is to try to show that same generosity. This can be done with a little honesty and a lot of support.
You are obviously an intelligent, good-hearted, independent woman with a strong sense of right and wrong, and I hope you can hear these comments in the spirit in which they are meant. I appreciate your presence on this board, and definitely believe you have a right to come here and blow off steam just like the rest of us do. But when Cecilia stuck her neck out so bravely to say what she said, I felt I understood where she was coming from and wanted to say so. I know many people on this board have given me some much needed "tough love" at times, so I though maybe this was my turn to offer the same.
All best,
Elizabeth
I've a low annoyance threshold. I've never hidden that. If we had no expectations of those around us, a good number would likely be living like barbarians. It would be a freakin' free for all. I've come to the conclusion that the touchy-feely crud (oh, we can't have a valedictorian because it will hurt the feelings of the poor dears who didn't do well) so prevalent today does no good. From first-hand knowledge of a lot of situations, I've seen the "support" do little good when some plain talk and specific laying out of possible consequences actually did work. I'm not the "supportive" type. I treat people like adults until they give me reason not to. I have too much of my own going to babysit people.
People need to understand that if they repeatedly violate basic social norms that there will be consequences. Like the fiance/wife of my friend's son. This girl's anti-social ways are possibly going to alienate her husband's family. Letting people continually behave like barbarians does no one any good. After repeated attempts to be friendly whenever I've seen her and she acts like a jerk, sorry, chickie, you had your chance. I suppose you also think I should have continued dating the guy who didn't treat me with respect?
Did it occur to you that I just wanted to vent and there was nothing more behind it? People with timeliness issues are my major pet peeve. I simply can't get my head around how these people function. To me, not bothering to be on time is a sign of irresponsibility. And that's proven correct in a number of individuals I know. If you can't be bothered to be on time to work, then you must not really care if you keep your job. If you're stuck in traffic because of an accident on the freeway and will be late to work, you call. You do this too many times without calling, you go through a process of verbal and written warnings. Keep it up, you'll be fired.
Actions have consequences. I do not allow people to walk all over me. Period. In the study group situation, I'd given them three weeks. If these folks aren't committed enough to their studies, that's not my problem. I don't hand hold. But I *am* committed, and I'm not going to waste time on a study group when the others can't be bothered to show up for a meeting schedule *they* pushed for. If they had wanted to do fewer meetings that would have been fine with me. Coming when it's only convenient for them doesn't cut it, so I pulled the plug. They had their chances. They blew them. I'm rather tired of people who are all talk and no action. I talk *and* do whatever it is.
I've said my piece. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go study.
goldensmom
5-21-12, 7:03am
Did it occur to you that I just wanted to vent and there was nothing more behind it? People with timeliness issues are my major pet peeve.
Sorry, Tradd. I did not realize you were just venting and gave my opinion based on my own problem with timeliness issues and how I've tried to deal with in my own life situations. I thought how I dealt with it might be of help to you but as you pointed out you were just venting and as such probably did not really want input. I will try to be more sensitive to your posts in the future. Again, sorry.
Tradd. Like yourself, I don't go for that sort of thing, either. One thing I have always admired about you, is you strike me as being a no-nonsense type person, and I like that. Maybe, because I, too, am the same, that's why I like it so much.
I love these boards - we can come here and yell about others, get our frustrations out, and still appear cool as a cucumber to the people we see on a daily basis.
Not applying this to anything, just sayin':
I have a husband who sets very high standards and expects everyone to give 150%. He expects a lot of himself as well as others. Therefore its easy for him to sound negative because he is quicker to point out how someone failed or didn't meet expectations or didn't follow thru on a plan. I'm always telling him that those people will never change, after you've given them three chances you have to lower your expectations to zero. I also get tired of his negative rants and have to stop him and tell him that I need to hear three positive things about others or the situation or I'm walking away from the 'conversation' (i.e. rant).
I have a feeling that Tradd's study group was hoping that Tradd could handfeed them some info and make it easy and instead found that she was going to push them to work hard. So they are afraid and running. You gave it a go Tradd, you gave it several chances so walking away from it is o.k.
On a side note: I got hung up on the 'going back to workplace on a Saturday to study'.....man that is dedication. My weekend time is precious, I'd much rather be on the lake on my kayak.
I always wonder what all the people you complain about say about you. Maybe they post on another message board about you! I would hate going through life being constantly disappointed in others. Letting go can be such a good thing!
Originally posted by Float On.
I have a feeling that Tradd's study group was hoping that Tradd could handfeed them some info and make it easy and instead found that she was going to push them to work hard. So they are afraid and running.This was my first thought, too.
Update of sorts:
The coworker decided not to go for the exam next week, and the other local woman sent me an email this past week saying she wasn't going for this exam either.
chrisgermany
9-27-12, 3:55am
So lots of luck to you!
I really hope (and do believe!) that your exam goes well, tradd. I know how much work you have put into it! :D
Excel, Tradd. Come out on top, and be that perfectly prepared pudding with the swirly-top and curly-cue!
Funny how the dirt always comes out in the wash, isn't it. I knew from the very start of this thread the followers who initially set-out to study with you weren't (at all) interested.
awakenedsoul
9-27-12, 6:56pm
Tradd,
It sounds to me like you are conscientious and responsible, and the others were not. I am also very dependable, reliable, punctual, etc. I'm in my late forties. The older I get, the looser society seems to be about showing up, being on time, coming to class prepared, listening, etc...
I predict you will pass the test. You dedication will pay off...I'm not surprised they are not going to take the test. Why? So they can flunk?
Yogi Bhajan used to say that when you raise your caliber you have more conflicts with people. Many people just do enough to get by...you are a high achiever.
When I worked in theater, I was with an incredible group of people. Only the very best made it. Once I left show business, I was really disappointed in the general population. There's no comparison. But, for me, the discipline has paid off in my health, finances, and career. My dad used to say, "Virtue is its own reward."
Thank you for the good wishes, Mrs-M, Zoebird, Chris, and AS.
I've taken a few days off before the exam (I had vacation time I needed to take), and it was lovely to be able to sleep in until about 8:30 this morning (I've been getting up at 5:30), my first day off. It's almost a vacation, even though I'm off because of the exam! I've been working some crazy hours, so I'm looking forward to being able to relax a bit. I've been saving up my monthly Massage Envy massages, and so I scheduled a two hour massage for this evening and a 90 minute massage the evening of exam day. I'm doing a lot of review and reading through previous exams to get a good feel for the tricky way Customs words questions (previous questions are also sometimes repeated).
iris lily
9-28-12, 10:51am
Tradd, wish you well! You are prepared and I expect it to pay off.
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