Tell Me About Your Failures and How You Survived Them (Long)

[ejchase]

Hi All,

I am having a hard time getting over a recent failure. Basically, I applied - for the third time - for a plum job at a place I already work part-time. I've gotten an interview for this job twice before. The head of the department told me to to keep applying, but this time, I just got really nervous and anxious about it and really did poorly. The interview process is very rigorous - you have to show up 90 minutes before the interview to do a bunch of small assessment tasks, then are interviewed by ten people, then do a ten-minute teaching presentation. Though I thought I'd prepared really well this time, I basically blew my presentation - it was clear the committee didn't understand where I was going with it, wasn't able to respond to my questions (they were "playing" the students) and then I ran out of time and looked totally unprofessional and unprepared. Also, when I got home and looked over the interview questions (which I had on a handout), I realized I hadn't answered key parts of the questions (though they'd been carefully read aloud to me throughout the interview).

I know I'm lucky to have a job at all in this economy, but I am having so much trouble forgiving myself for these mistakes and am so embarassed now when I'm at work to see these people who saw me blow the interview so badly. Though it may be some time before there is another opening at this place, I'm afraid I burned my bridges so badly with this interview that I won't ever get an interview again. Also, I feel like I totally let down the department chair (who was on the committee) who has gone out of her way to encourage me in the past. I had asked her for a recommendation letter for other jobs at other places as a "back up plan," but can't even manage to write an email now reminding her of that request because of my embarassment.

The other piece of this is that I'm 46 and feel like every year, it's going to get a little bit harder to get a job like this and, of course, right now there aren't a lot of openings to begin with. For years, I didn't even bother to apply for full-time jobs because I simply wasn't that concerned about job security, but now I have a child and a house, and really want to be settled in one workplace. I'm scared I waited too long and am going to spend the next twenty year piecing together part-time jobs the way I've been doing for the last fifteen, and that kind of future is starting to look really bleak.

I've been trying a lot of things to get myself out of all of this fear and regret, but ten days in, I'm still feeling pretty low. Anybody out there been through anything like this? Anybody have any advice for getting through it?

Sorry for the whining. I know I'm lucky in so many ways in my life, but the negatives are taking over these days ...

Elizabeth

[catherine]

First of all, face it that we all have failures. None of us sails through live with no mistakes. I think I do a pretty good job at presentations, which I often have to deliver in front of marketing directors and VPs, and advertising directors and VPs, but I certainly have my share of cringe moments. One time I was stupid enough to get to the Conclusions and Recommendations part of a really big presentation of expensive research and throw it back on them, as in, "I couldn't find any meaningful conclusions--do you see any?" (I didn't literally say that but that's how it came out). I just remember the blank stares of really important corporate folks looking at me, and my boss looking like he wanted to hide under the table.

On the other hand, I've done presentation where I've had applause and the VP told me my presentation was a tour de force. So, you have good days and you have bad days.

The thing with your situation is to get over the cringe moments--basically by telling yourself it probably wasn't as bad as you are imagining to be. And then analyze it. What went wrong? Why were you unable to perform? Nerves? Lack of preparation? Misunderstanding? Once you identify the failure, you can work on correcting it for the next time.

One of the most important things, I find, is to take your ego out of it. Be dispassionate about looking at yourself without beating yourself up, getting defensive, projecting all kinds of negative future consequences which will in all probability never happen.

And at 46--heck, you're still young! I didn't BEGIN my career in market research until I was 46 and I went pretty far pretty fast because there are a lot of people who value experience. If you are conscientious and deliver what people need, you're going to be fine.

So, ten days in, just consider that it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, and if you learn something from it, then there is an upside.

[lhamo]

I had a huge career meltdown that started about 6-7 years ago -- obviously at almost exactly 6 years ago, when they hired in someone above my head for a position that should have been offered to me without even telling me it was an option, but looking back the roots of it were 7 years ago when they encouraged me to go part time. Classic glass ceiling stuff + psycho boss who needed to have a scapegoat, and I was the next in line. It was incredibly painful and demoralizing -- I had a unique skillset but one that would not necessarily adapt well to another environment (so I thought -- my current job proved that wrong). Add to that the fact that rather than quitting with me, DH decided to stay on working under psycho boss. I accepted it and it was a good choice for us financially, but I still struggle with the emotional fallout of that particular decision. I went through a very bleak period of several months where I was horribly depressed -- worst bout I've had in my life, probably -- and pretty adrift. Then out of the blue I got an email from my current boss announcing the position I now have. It was totally bizarre -- I had met him once, when my DH applied for a job with him, and I'm not really sure how I ended up on his mailing list because we hadn't stayed in touch. But this job was PERFECT for me and just what I needed. I went to talk with him before applying and basically laid on the table that I was damaged goods due to fallout of dysfunctional prior workplace/psycho boss, but that I thought in the right environment I could pull it together and make a good contribution. He encouraged me to apply. I cried during my interview (talk about embarassing...) but he STILL hired me. Five years later, I have made major contributions to the organization and am much happier than I was at dysfunction city. So, there is hope!

Although you probably aren't looking for tenure track jobs, I highly recommend Karen Kelsky's website www.theprofessorisin.com for general advice on job prep and job search issues related to the academic world. She ROCKS! She's got tons of stuff available for free on her website, mostly through her blog. She also does consulting, which might be worth it to you. If I had ever gone the professorial route, I think I may well have ended up like her. I love what she does and how she does it.

Regarding your embarassment about messing up the interview, I'd say screw up your courage and approach the chair. You can do it with humor/self-deprecation to soften it a bit -- something like "Well THAT was embarassing, wasn't it? Can you help me troubleshoot and prepare better for the next opportunity?" Hopefully she's human and she'll get it, and can help you figure out how to make some lemonade out of these particular lemons.

lhamo

[San Onofre Guy]

Elizabeth,

You will get through this. My first big failure was freshman year of college in the dark ages of 1981. I began college studying engineering due to the fact that that was when the prime interest rate hit 20% and the best way to get a job was be an engineer. A few weeks into school I learned that it had not been good for me to be advanced in math (you see I was a year ahead in math until senior year in high school. Calculus was not offered at my school and no one considered that I should go to college in the next town at night to take calculus) I struggled in Calculus and ended up dropping many classes including calculus based physics and I ended up completing only 9 units that semester putting me on academic probation. I had a soul searching discussion with my parents in October when things were bleak about dropping out. My mother gave me some sage advice, tough it out, your grades will not be great but you will get through this. I did and thanks to taking summer classes at night while working fulltime in physical jobs, I graduated in four years.

I later at age 38 went through a divorce with a four and six year old boys. Things get bleak at times in life but they do get better.

Chin up.

[ejchase]

Thanks, each of you, for taking the time to tell me your stories.

I am trying to be gentle with myself - and allowing myself a fair amount of bad TV, chocolate, and a ****tail after my one-year-old daughter goes to bed at night - and this morning was actually able to meditate for ten minutes, sitting with all the embarassment and shame I feel. I know ultimately that I'm just going to have to let myself feel all this pain for a while, but it's hard.

I also know there are many potential gifts of this experience. All my life interviews have been the easy part. I generally present well, come off as fairly sane and intelligent, and have been handed many good opportunities pretty easily. Now that I'm putting myself in more competitive situations, I have to do more than just slide by on my natural abilities, and so far, I haven't been able to deliver on that in this specific situation at this specific workplace. That doesn't mean I won't get better at interviewing and making presentations. It just hasn't happened yet. I just have to keep trying to learn from my mistakes by reflecting on what hasn't been working and what has and hope I get other opportunities to do better.

Lhamo, I'm afraid I've used up all the help I've been offered from the department chair. To make a long story short, before this last interview, I poked my head in her office and - on a day when she was rushing to prepare for a meeting - she set aside her work to encourage me. She is totally overextended, and I just don't think I can ask for any more of her time now - though I will eventually screw up the courage to ask her for a rec letter.

In any case, all your words help a lot. Thanks again.

[JaneV2.0]

I've come around--after decades of experience--to the philosophy that if you have to work and struggle and drive yourself crazy to achieve some goal, the universe is trying to tell you something. All the successes in my life have come with minimal effort, and all the goals I've set and toiled mightily to achieve have come to naught. Be like water: flow freely in your natural course.

[Mrs-M]

Ejchase. Am I ever glad to see you posted here for support (and to vent). Suppressing heartache ad pain, then going it alone seldom supports much of a feel-better recovery. Although I don't have any experiences to share, I do have a supportive hug to send to you. Hope you get it!

[catherine]

Be like water: flow freely in your natural course.

I like that... great advice

[shadowmoss]

I was totally stuck in my when I was in my 40's. Part time work was pretty much all I could piece together, financially going down-hill, every decision I made to get out of the rut put me deeper into debt. On a whim I applied for a job totally out of my keen - I thought they only hired young, male, former military folks to do training on the military software. I was in their office to fix their computers (Dell field service tech, part time work). I laughed that they should hire me, laughing cause I am not any of the above. If I had actually thought it was a possiblity I would never have said anything! They finally said give us your resume. They hired me. It was a very difficult year and a half there, but I got into a totally different field, or a totally different application of my field. I'm now on my 3rd military based contracting job, and I'm working in Honduras and finally paying off debt. In my 50's. I look back and couldn't have planned this if I'd tried. I was just open to trying something, anything, different from where I was at the time. I'm thinking of traveling to Panama on a 4 day weekend over the 4th of July. Who would have thunk?

[Gardenarian]

Hi and (((hugs))),

I have blown a few interviews myself. It is a horrible feeling and you are allowed to beat yourself up over it for exactly two hours. Feel all that pain for two hours - that is my limit. For two hours I can tell myself how stupid and blundering and socially inept I am and then it is over. If it pops into my mind again I just remind myself that it's history and to let it go. Yeah, easier said than done.

Another thing to keep in mind is that an interview is a two-way street. I have been in situations where it was impossible to succeed; the interviewers did not seem interested in my answers, people didn't look me in the eye, they seemed like they wanted to get it over with. Remember that for most positions it is required to interview a certain number of candidates, even if the person in charge already has somebody in mind that they want to hire. I thought I blew one interview and then someone told me afterward that they had already decided they needed a person of color for a more balanced team. So they didn't really bother to listen to me.

Bad tv, chocolate, and a drink - yep, that's probably exactly what I would do. If it's possible, get outside for a long walk - I find it empties that recycle bin in my head.

It will get better.

[Float On]

I've accepted two jobs previous that between the time I said "yes" and the first day of work.....I emailed or left a voicemail that it was the wrong decision to accept the job and I'm sorry but I won't be showing up at 8 a.m. Monday. I always felt guilty over that, leaving them hanging come Monday morning, but I think it was better to realize that it wasn't a good fit. I'd be unhappy and leave anyway and then they'd be stuck training someone new again.

[awakenedsoul]

I think when a job is meant to be, you just do well at the interview and things fall into place. One time I had an audition for a show on Broadway in New York. I just could not pick up the choreography. When everyone danced in small groups, I just stood there. I couldn't pick up a single step. I remember the director, (Michael Smuin, from The San Francisco Ballet,) looking at me like he knew I was a good dancer, but I'd blown my chances. I felt humiliated, and frustrated with myself, but I accepted that I just didn't connect with the choreographer. I got hired by the Rockettes and some other touring Broadway shows after that, and had a great career. Try not to beat yourself up or wallow in the negativity. We've all been there, including the people who interviewed you. Journaling your feelings might help. I would send a thank you note to the woman who helped you. I wouldn't mention anything else...just that you appreciate her time, help, and energy. Everyone else has probably forgotten all this by now. You attract what you focus on, so I would focus on your strengths, and on your dreams. The pendulum will swing the other way, and you will have a success soon.

[leslieann]

The thank you note is a great idea.

And so is limiting the time you will let yourself wallow.

I had a year of rejection, about three years after finishing my Ph.D. I applied for three jobs and got rejected. I was offered adjunct teaching, which I was already doing.... I applied to grad school for additional certification and was rejected (yeah, even with a doctoral degree in hand). I submitted an article based on my dissertation and was roundly criticized and rejected. All of that happened one spring semester.

The next spring, I applied again for the jobs that came up and was fourth in the selection process at the community college. (Do I need to say that I was rejected for everything else...even the place I was teaching refused to give me half time work, despite the repeated requests of the department chair and other faculty.) At the community college, there were three tenure track jobs and a fourth position that was a one-year contract. I was offered the contract position and took it. Over time that led to a tenure track position but it was touch and go every year for awhile. So every year, I applied for everything that came up that I was qualified for. The worst experience was a phone interview with a committee at a local university. The interview was stilted and unpleasant, and even though I did all the tricks you are supposed to do, I was incredibly uncomfortable. Afterward, I wrote a thank you letter to the committee chair and shipped it off right away....and after I mailed it was when I realized that I had the guy`s first name WRONG.....confused him with someone from grad school. So that was a big embarrassment....not only a bad interview, but a bad letter to follow up.

Elizabeth, I don`t think you have to worry about taking up your chair`s time if you just take five minutes to offer your thanks again for her support, and if you want to, to acknowledge that the interview day wasn`t your best showing. I see that as naming the elephant, and it can go a long way toward helping you to feel comfortable in the department again.

(Maybe I should also tell you that in a later situation, I had a bad answer to a question during the phone interview....absolutely had NO IDEA of what they were talking about. So I got a quick education after the interview, figure out how what I knew was related to what they were asking, and wrote a good couple of paragraphs that would have been my answer if I had known enough at the time.....and yes, I got that job. So mistakes are not always failures though I had really written that one off. I only wrote the letter because my self respect was at issue...it was for ME, not really for them, but they liked it.)

And here is a hug....((((((ej))))))))

[Zoe Girl]

My answer to most of life's difficulties is punk music, yeah real loud. Sometimes going to sitting meditation but a rousing Dead Kennedys CD after that followed by a more mellow No Doubt and winding up with Leonard Cohen usually helps.

Seriously though I have been there, royally. Some people around here know some of the struggle so I won't go into it. Take care of yourself, realize this is not the job market where employers are looking for something to develop but rather a perfect fit to their niche. Also I would thank the person who has supported you, give a brief one or two sentence comment on the failure part and don't imagine too much embarassing. (Thank you so much for all your support. It gave me confidence to try for something more. I know I was nervous/less qualified than expected/? and I understand I was not the best for the position, however I will always appreciate that you helped me. If I can do anything to help you with your obviously large workload please let me know) I think it will help to have some closure to the experience by addressing this with the supportive person even if you can only do an email due to her workload, and you may be seen as gracious rather than a total failure.

The best quote I have heard on the subject is "Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could have been anything but what it was"

[Valley]

Dear Zoe Girl...I love your quote! I'm going to copy it and hang it on my bulletin board. It sums up "what's done is done" in a much more meaningful way! Thanks for sharing it. How is your job change looking for the fall? I hope that it is moving in a positive direction.

[AmeliaJane]

I'm paraphrasing here, but I believe Steve Jobs said something along the lines of "If you're not failing occasionally, you're not trying hard enough." I keep reminding my team at work of this--failure can be embarrassing, painful, and sometimes expensive but sometimes you learn things from it that you don't learn any other way, and if you don't take risks sometimes, you don't give yourself the opportunity for success either. When I got laid off, I interviewed for everything vaguely related to my field, and I had some truly awful interviews--one that ended in crying on the way home on a crowded city bus with everyone trying to look everywhere but at me. But by the time I got to the one that mattered, I had really polished my interview skills, and learned how to present myself.