View Full Version : Concern for a friend. What would you do?
I could use some objective advice about a friend of mine. A couple of nights ago she was over and a few minutes after she left she called to ask if my sister and I could come over because she thought she broke her leg. She didn't want to call 911 if we could get her to the emergency room because she has little to no insurance. We found her laying in the family room on her back with her leg up on the sofa. She couldn't move her leg.
We called 911 immediately. Then we had to get to work because there was no way anyone was going to get a stretcher or chair into her house. We had to move furniture out of the hall into other rooms and we had trouble getting the doors open to those rooms because of all the stuff in there. We cleared paths through baskets and stacks of stuff. What was even more shocking was the state of her kitchen. Even the police officers who responded were shocked. I know because I work for the city and I know the guys who responded. We were all shocked at the state of her home.
We don't know what if anything we should do for her. She appears to be very despondent. She keeps saying she's totally overwhelmed. Now she's at home with a broken leg. What is upsetting is the rapid deterioration of her house. She never used to be this way. It's drastically different in the span of a year or so. She restored and impeccably decorated and hand stenciled all the rooms in her house. She's always had too many collectibles for my taste but it was beautiful. Nothing prepared us for what we encountered the other day.
By her own admission she is insecure and always worries about what people think of her. So her reaction to strangers coming it to get her out was strange. She wasn't concerned about her house as much as that she needed to refresh her lipstick. We're all afraid that talking to her about it will make her more upset. And we really don't think we should go in and start cleaning her house in part because we think there are bigger issues here. The other thing is she tends to be a person that if you do something for her, she comes to expect it to continue. A lot of us have had to set boundaries in this regard.
She clearly needs some sort of intervention here, but we really don't know what to do. This is not the person she is and she's miserable. She has an adult son out of state with her father and we aren't sure if it's appropriate to talk to them about it. We're in uncharted waters here but we're worried about her. What would any of you do?
sweetana3
6-21-12, 11:16am
In this desperate situation, broken leg and hoarding house, call the father and any relatives you can get involved.
It appears there is a lot of history with her from your boundaries comment but it would not be amiss to take her a meal or do some shopping for her perhaps. Unless you have experienced problems before with just this type of thing. Common human kindness is called for and you all can set boundaries if it becomes necessary. Just say NO to those things you dont want to do or are uncomfortable with.
Extreme hoarding and extreme cleaning issues are one of the most difficult situations to become aware of. Whether cats or stuff, it is a mental condition and not resolved by friends helping out. We had one a block away and it took Health and Human Services, Animal Care and Control and the police to resolve the issue.
In our city, we call Health and Human Services for advice. If it is not a safety issue or a true danger to health and welfare, there is not much that can be done. So she lives differently than anyone else you know. Unless there is a danger, adults are free to choose what to do.
Perhaps you could research for a doctor or such that specializes in hoarding cases and give her father or relatives their number.
If you get the channel that has the Hoarding TV show on it, watch a couple and see just how bad it gets and what it takes to even have the person accept any type of help. It can give you some perspective.
Miss Cellane
6-21-12, 11:32am
You say this happened pretty much over the last year? That's pointing to depression or some other mental health issue, IMO.
I've had some experience with a family member who has hoarding tendencies. It's my belief, from the research I've done, that a lot of it comes down to some sort of mental health issue. That, or a huge life-change that the person simply can't cope with.
I'll bet she was focusing on the lipstick because she was trying to blot out all thoughts of the state of her house.
Since she trusted you enough to call and let you into her house in an emergency, I'd talk with her first, preferably with someone else there. I'd be kind of firm and tell her that either she gets help with the house or you (meaning a group of her friends, not just you) will be contacting her father and son. Give her a firm deadline, say a month. Then in a month, you will probably be calling her family.
She isn't going to change until she wants to change. But from what you've described here, I suspect she is under a cloud of depression or something similar and if she could get the appropriate medical help, she'd have the strength to deal with the mess. Getting her to get that help is the key issue, and the hardest one to deal with.
You could also check with the police and see if they have an automatic referral to Social Services when things are this bad, or if you need to alert someone to the situation. There could be help out there for the asking, if you can just get your friend to ask.
We are helping with shopping and meals. This is not just me and my sister. A whole group of us are good friends and we're pooling our resources to make sure she has what she needs. We know this is not her being a diva and we want to help.
The life changing event that may have triggered this escalation was that her son moved out of state. They're very close. Her health has deteriorated since then. In order to save money on health care she sees a nurse practitioner and not a physician. She's on all sorts of medications and takes all sorts of other remedies. Over the last year she's become all puffy. We've been trying to get her to see a doctor or at least take all the stuff she's taking to her pharmacist to see if some of this is drugs reacting badly in combination. But she resists. I have a feeling her son knows things are spiraling out of control. Just this week she spent 8 hours in one day on the phone with him. I love my DD but there's no way I could fill up 8 hours of phone time with her. Something had to up with that.
But the suggestion of social services is a great one. I think I'll talk to our new Police Chief and see if she's got any suggestions in that regard. Until she was recently promoted she did a lot of work with people in difficult situations.
As a city employee, I know that there have been similar situations in town and our Police Chief and Building Inspector would issue a "do not respond" order to emergency personnel because the situation was unsafe. While our officers were at her house and we were waiting for the ambulance, I would see them walking around the house assessing the situation. I'm worried that this will escalate to that degree.
fidgiegirl
6-21-12, 12:30pm
Check out "Digging Out" (http://www.amazon.com/Digging-Out-Hoarding-Compulsive-Acquiring/dp/1572245948/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1340294854&sr=8-3&keywords=hoarding+for+family+members) for friends and families of hoarders.
There are some near-hoarding issues in my family of origin. I hope it never gets as bad as some on the show (which I have only been able to bear in snippets) but it always teeters on the precipice. I could not finish reading Digging Out at the time I got it from the library but maybe someday I will be able to. It talked a little too much about all the mistakes the family members (including me) typically make in dealing with the issue. And one includes calling the authorities. They DO talk about minimizing risk, like making an agreement to keep the stove clear - but only if borne from your genuine concern for the person's safety rather than the need to control the person and his/her behaviors in his/her own home - and walks through how to have that conversation. But the book is as much for the family members/friends to realize they are, in most cases, not going to "fix" the situation. Not with ultimatums, not with involvement of social services. Maybe it's different for your friend since this is a recent development, but sounds like, as someone else said, something underlying ("boundaries") has been present for a long time. Plus, maybe as a friend you don't have as much drama or baggage in this game as a family member might have. But it's all food for thought.
I did however read the entire book Stuff (http://www.amazon.com/Stuff-Compulsive-Hoarding-Meaning-Things/dp/0547422555/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c) and it was enlightening. Also recommend it.
I can't remember which book would say DO NOT involve authorities unless it is the absolute last resort. Plus, unless she is living in absolute filth with animal issues or rotting food or something, I doubt authorities would be able to do anything, anyway, or that it even works. I believe it was "Stuff" that discussed forced cleanouts and how people just end up under the same quantity of stuff anyway because their underlying mental health issue has not been addressed.
Tread cautiously. Remember that it is her problem. You can MAYBE kindly bring it up and point her to someone trained in dealing with it, or she may just hide under more lipstick. You can't control that and if you push too hard you may lose the friendship.
I can't recommend the books enough.
Tussiemussies
6-21-12, 12:38pm
Don't have anything to add but just want to wish you the best under these circumstances. It's not an easy situation to deal with...
awakenedsoul
6-21-12, 3:33pm
There's a lot of this now. It's sad. I used to have a massage therapist who was an excellent housekeeper. I was always so impressed with her home. It was clean, loved, organized, and well decorated. I went back after not seeing her for a few years, and she had become a hoarder. I was so shocked! There were piles of books and papers everywhere, even on the stairs. The massage was terrible. (She used to be excellent.) She just kept talking and she seemed really distracted and unfocused. Sometimes these people are actually perfectionists. They are very "all or nothing." Sometimes it happens after a trauma. I believe it has to do with rage. Often they are having severe financial or health problems. Some of them will keep the house nice for their children, but not for themselves when they live alone.
I had neighbors who were living this way and I eventually turned them in...it was disgusting. (Rats, trash, disrespect, etc...) They garden and take of their home now, and they are so much quieter and more peaceful. (Most of the time.) It's really negative energy to live this way. Another neighbor of mine has clutter all up her driveway and spilling onto her porch. It inspired me to keep my space cleared and cleaned. My brother married a woman like this and it's been a horrible experience for him. He has to do all of the housework, laundry, etc...she just won't. They have children and it's sad for the kids to be raised in all of that chaos and negativity. She was even hoarding things at work! People have so much stuff now. I don't know how they afford it all.
It might help to mention how beautiful her house used to look and how she took such good care of it, and see how she responds. She obviously has the skills and ability to do it. (My brother's wife was an excellent housekeeper until they married. Then she went the opposite way.)
She sounds depressed. Have you talked to her directly about her difficulties? I think that would be the first course of action.
Thanks for the excellent suggestions. We don't want to report her anywhere. The only social services I would try to find are any programs that would facilitate her getting some medical treatment because we think that may be the culprit. Maybe there are assistance programs for people on a fixed income.
To clarify the boundary issues, its nothing monumental. She has a tendency to be inconsiderate in small ways. It's weird things. She'll offer help you with something and at the last minute back out because 10:30 am is too early and she doesn't even have her makeup face on until noon. So we never ask her for anything prior to noon. She's always wanted take trips with me but I have learned to say no. When I go somewhere, I want to be out exploring well before noon. I know it would become an issue so I decline when she suggests a trip because I wouldn't enjoy myself. That kind of boundaries. We have a lot of pot lucks. She'll come 30 minutes late without a dish and say she ran out of time. So now people get real specific. We assign dishes so it's uncomfortable for her if she backs out. Its nothing that would make us want to end the friendship. We just know what to expect from her and we adjust accordingly.
We're just all really shocked at how sudden this decline is. I worry that the police were in her house. One of our officers lives right next door to her and he and his wife don't get along with my friend. They actually don't get along with any neighbors, and if you cross him he reminds you he's an officer and can make your life miserable. I'm worried that the two who responded to the call will mention this to him and there is no question that if they did, he or his wife would call the health department on her and make her life miserable. They've done nastier things than that to neighbors. That's all she needs.
Well, the health department will not make an issue unless there is a danger to health or safety. They have way too much to do at least in my big city. Small town politics are another thing entirely. But messy houses or full houses that are not fire safety issues, etc. are not illegal.
If it is a fire safety issue, would you rather get it fixed or feel responsible if she has an electrical fire or some thing similiar?
Even on hoarding shows on TV, unless the property outside had an issue like rats, the house was about to collapse, the landlord wanted something done, children were involved, hoarding animals was involved, there was little the government could do.
Well, you know, I don't fear confrontation and I tend not to make ultimatums, but I think approaching her with your concern is appropriate.
Something like: Name, I am increasingly concerned about you. Not just with your leg -- that has been a bit of a hardship for sure -- but I haven't known you to be this way, to let your house get into this level of disorder. Is there something going on? Have you really been struggling? is there any way that I can help (find your services, people to help tidy, etc)?
I've had to do this with mommy friends of mine. Watching them just get overwhelmed is tough. So many people just are like "call social services!" when really, Mom just needs some down time, some help, and some opportunity to refocus and get her groove back. After just admitting the vulnerability and difficulty that she has, we're able to create a community-based plan that can provide her with the support that she needs. There are so many churches, clubs, and groups that are designed to support people when they are in need. And, just a group of neighbor-women can go a long way to help her succeed.
She might need help -- a support group for example -- which can provide for her emotional/mental health needs. She might need help -- down the track -- for organizing her house in a way that is more attuned to her mental status as it improves, and in the process, your friendship can be a touchstone of support.
If you take the focus that you love her and that you want to help her, that you want to help her before things become a health and safety hazard for her, and that you'll hep her find *free* and community based resources to help, she may be more open to hearing it.
chrisgermany
6-22-12, 4:54am
She should be checked out for hypothyroidism and hashimoto disease.
On the surface it often looks like depression and loss of energy, can come out of the sudden in the middle of life and can be improved with the right daily dose of thyroxine.
Till I was diagnosed I could nor understand what was going on with me. From an active person to a bedspread within some months...
Fortunately the thyroxine works and I am back to my normal self.
When replying to such a message where the poster couches it with we are not sure we want to help, boundaries you know, previous history, it is a matter of trying hard to read between the lines.
Unfortunately, my history has shown that most of the people who ask these questions want someone else to handle the situation. But I tried hard to tell them that "common human kindness" should be shown first. Replying to a request is a fine balancing act. We dont know what she saw or what the police were concerned over. But I assumed it had to be bad and something she did not want to deal with or the group of friends would have taken care of it themselves.
Then again, I was caught in this same situation of now knowing what to do and I called a group for their perspective on the issue. In my case, a local stray cat group. They told me to get the authorities involved because true hoarding is not something untrained individuals can resolve. I had tried as a concerned neighbor to help the person by paying for neuter fees, buying food, taking her to the vet with her animals for two years, but I was only postponing the problem and not really helping. I could not resolve the mental issues involved and one was the inability of the person to even "see" the problem all around her. While I was dithering about calling, another neighbor called after a physical confrontation with the animal hoarder. He was a neighbor that finally had it over the awful smell of her property that could be smelled even across the street.
A broken leg is depressing and immobilizing in itself, on top of whatever she already had. The fact that she's now limited by the broken leg allows her friendship group to have an excuse to clean and organize for her - since she physically can't right now - so that when she recovers she won't be faced with overwhelming chaos that might prevent her from improving her home even when she can.
If someone has the authority/assertivness to MAKE her have her meds evaluated by a pharmacist, I suspect that would reveal the root of the problem right there. Whether she goes along or not, can someone bag them all up and take them to a pharmacy?
Update: Someone went to clean yesterday. Not the whole house. They just started with the kitchen. The weekend is coming so some of the rest of us can go help out as well. She has repeatedly complained of late about health issues and since she is only seeing a nurse practitioner because of cost, she isn't being tested for anything. I have now found a health clinic about 15 miles away that will offer their services free or on a sliding scale. They also have financial counselors that will set up a payment plan that works for her if need be. When she brings up her health concerns I'm going to have the information ready for her. I'm relatively certain she will. I think it would be a good thing for her to get a fresh set of medical eyes looking at her situation.
fidgiegirl
6-22-12, 1:38pm
In my experience with my mom (and I know this woman is not my mom) be very VERY careful about cleaning for her. As in, don't get rid of ANYTHING she doesn't want to be gotten rid of. Set it aside, talk about it over several days but DO NOT take away her control, even if it seems ridiculous to keep. I got rid of ONE THING - not exaggerating here - without her permission in my teens and now that I'm in my 30s I have still been asked, as recently as in the last year, if I got rid of something that she couldn't find (her blender jar). Well, no. It's lost in your stacks of stuff. But in her mind, people get rid of her things. It doesn't help that when my parents went out of town my brother "cleaned" for them. His version was to put it all in boxes. Not good. My mother couldn't find anything (for as much stuff as there is, she mostly knows where things are). She talked about it for years. Actually, now that I write this, I wonder if that's part of why my parents are kind of ho-hum when we suggest they make use of their timeshare. I wonder if she is afraid people will clean up her house. Hmmmm
You are a good person to be worried about your friend, Charity. I hope some of the suggestions work. I second the check of hypothyroidism. It could easily explain my personal fluctuations in mood, anyway (I have Hashi's).
The person who did the cleaning was very careful to only clean what was a hazard in her kitchen per someone on this board's excellent suggestion. So the open plates of rotting food piled in the sink and on the counters got tossed and the clutter of stuff on the stove burners got cleaned up. It was boxes of crackers and paper plates from her last get together which was several months ago. I remember at the time thinking it was dangerous to put the paper goods on the stove burners but there wasn't any space anywhere else. They were all still there. I think the one who cleaned took a stab at all the bad food in the refrigerator too so we would have someplace to put the meals we bring over. My friend asked for the kitchen to be cleaned so it wasn't too stressful. I think it might have been different if she wasn't in an unfortunate position of being reliant on others because of her leg.
I'm in total agreement when I read the description of hypothyroidism too. Based on what I'm seeing in her, she has all the earmarks.
Charity, Your friend is lucky to have people in her life like you. I have no new suggestions, just sympathy. A very good friend of mine has slid into hoarding over the past 2 years and I am very worried about her. I read everything I can on hoarding, including the books mentioned in this thread. I am almost at the point of not wanting to set foot in her home any more. I hope you will post back on how this goes over time, if you see any improvement and if she accepts the opportunities for medical help that you've found. I wish you and her well.
Update. She has an appointment with a real doctor next week. And they have already scheduled a complete blood work test and some other testing. I was able to have the conversation with her on Friday night. I did my best to stay clear of the house issues and instead focused on what I perceived to be a physical change in her, that the house issues were perhaps a symptom of.
She did admit that she lost control of her house when her son moved away. It had a big impact on her and she's admittedly depressed. But she also thinks something is wrong with her physically. All in all it was a good conversation. She only got kind of testy and defensive once and accused me of not liking her because of her messy house. I reminded her that I was the one who called her, and I don't generally call people I don't like. And I told her I loved her as a friend and was worried about her, not her house. I spoken to her since and she's doing ok and there aren't any residual issues from the conversation.
Simpler at Fifty
6-25-12, 1:44pm
On a side medical note, please have your friend watch for signs of blood clots. I broke my leg and did floor exercises every day and ended up with blood clots on both lungs. Almost died from it. I had a pain in my rib cage but no other signs. I thought I pulled a muscle because it started after I began using crutches.
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