Certainly, I can't be the only one..

[Acquius]

Wasn't sure where to put this.

Moving on, though.

It's been a while since I've been here. That's partially because I forgot about this forum(my apologies), and because I've been musing a lot. I've been weeding through my son's toys, going through clothes, and donating things that aren't essential in day-to-day life, I know this is partially why life feels so unsatisfactory. I love my fiance, and I love my son, but still, I am unsatisfied.

Certainly, I can't be the only one.... who takes simplistic living to its roots. To villages and hunters-gatherers. Where two humans live together, separated from others, but instead, several humans spend day-in-and-day-out, breathing each other, happy to do so.

I realize I get lonely at night. My son is asleep. My fiance is busy. I long for friends to talk to, but not just that, either, BE with.

I'm l__l this close, to starting some sort of community to get people back to living IN nature, WITH each other. If I could live in modern-ish day village, I'd do it.

I am also unsatisfied for my son. Who I realize needs friends. I am disgusted, that whenever he tries to make a friend at a mall, his parents do not ask me about him, but simply scoop up their child and walk away. My son doesn't even talk to them. He just sits next to his new friend, or across from, and stares or smiles at them, depending on if they're a girl or not. 14 months old and his social skills are already rocky.

I've been taking him outside more, realizing even with his toys, he is bored. And of course he is. He's stuck inside a house. Babies get bored, too. He LOVES being outside. Crawling around in the dirt and the grass, eating the dirt, eating the grass.. As long as he doesn't want to nurse or take a nap, he's perfectly fine outside. I'll take him outside when he fusses, and he stops immediately. But I got to thinking..what about when it's winter? When we can't really go outside? He'll have no friends even then to play with. And how is he going to, with parents constantly scooping their children away? He made a friend with a little girl in a stroller the other day in the pet store.. and her parents rolled her to the other side of the store, and he CRAWLED after her, and sat next to the stroller, playing with the wheel. Both parents saw, the only thing the mom said to me was it was fine he play with the wheel, then they asked to play with a puppy, and hid away in a cubicle.

And this experience evolved into what exactly did we do to ourselves, modernizing our lives the way we have? We load our babies up with toys. But still, they are bored, and lonely. We buy things to entertain us and keep us happy, but still, we are bored, and lonely. What if the key to a truly satisfying life, is living IN nature, with friends, and their children, whatever they may be, with little "stuff"?

How did our species go from living together, to living apart? What started it? Why is it the norm? Why are we constantly striving to find happiness and fulfillment, and rarely finding it?

[ApatheticNoMore]

It's been a while since I've been here. That's partially because I forgot about this forum(my apologies), and because I've been musing a lot. I've been weeding through my son's toys, going through clothes, and donating things that aren't essential in day-to-day life, I know this is partially why life feels so unsatisfactory. I love my fiance, and I love my son, but still, I am unsatisfied.

Certainly, I can't be the only one.... who takes simplistic living to its roots. To villages and hunters-gatherers. Where two humans live together, separated from others, but instead, several humans spend day-in-and-day-out, breathing each other, happy to do so.

yea I have those thoughts. And yea I'm always asking what is evolutionarily natural, what has been archeologically etc. certainly not as a moral absolute, but more ... as a guide to what comes naturally, more easilly satisfies.


I realize I get lonely at night. My son is asleep. My fiance is busy. I long for friends to talk to, but not just that, either, BE with.

I'm l__l this close, to starting some sort of community to get people back to living IN nature, WITH each other. If I could live in modern-ish day village, I'd do it.

I've had the run away to a commune fantasy, many times, and it appeals. :) I do have some desire for privacy as well though. So I'm not only about merging with the tribe, but I long for community.


I am also unsatisfied for my son. Who I realize needs friends. I am disgusted, that whenever he tries to make a friend at a mall, his parents do not ask me about him, but simply scoop up their child and walk away. My son doesn't even talk to them. He just sits next to his new friend, or across from, and stares or smiles at them, depending on if they're a girl or not. 14 months old and his social skills are already rocky.

The mall may not be the best place, ok in an ideal world it wouldn't be this way, but people may be in a hurry (went to the mall for a purpose maybe), wary of strangers etc. You're probably looking for a playgroup of some sort (mommy and me group maybe). Ok I'm not a parent myself but I think that's what parents do. Also making friends with other moms with kids your kids age of course ...


What if the key to a truly satisfying life, is living IN nature, with friends, and their children, whatever they may be, with little "stuff"?

I'm so there :). Only unfortunately that is just a figure of speech and I'm not literally there.


How did our species go from living together, to living apart? What started it? Why is it the norm? Why are we constantly striving to find happiness and fulfillment, and rarely finding it?

It's the human condition :~) Ok that's the pessimistic answer to that last sentence. But as for living apart, that isn't just "the human condition", it's this particular society at a particular point in time and I think American society is generally considered a pretty extreme example of this. It obviously serves the economic system to have people very seperated (they won't share, I don't know, lawn mowers or whatever and all have to buy their own. I mean clearly it's useful to hyperconsumption) but exactly how it evolved I don't know.

[chickpea30]

I understand you. When my kids were babies my husband would take them for long walks in the stroller and they would be so satisfied looking up at the trees. Even now in the summer we go to the forest preserves and walk in the spring and the fall. I love going kayaking and canoeing in the summer. Tonight, I am heading out to a free outdoor concert so I can be outdoors and with others. The winter is especially challenging. Not only does it get dark early, but people tend to cocoon themselves inside. I have to make an effort to call people up and get together even though it gets really cold and people do not like leaving their homes. I do not know the answer to your questions. All I know is that when I am with others I feel better too.

[mtnlaurel]

These aren't answers (not like I would have them :P) to your bigger questions, but the following are places where we've had good luck in making connections... sometimes real connections with others at that wobble/ early toddler stage:
- Library - THE BEST - I lived in 3 different states when my kids were in the 14 mo. time frame -- local library in all 3 places had appropriate programming for that age group and then babes would stay afterward and have unstructured play
- playgrounds
- outside music events -- families seem to set up their 'compounds' in same general area away from loud speakers
- story times/acoustic music at bookstores

Don't be bummed about the pet store/mall scene, the parents are there to get what they need and go.
We are definitely all folks on the move and kids for certain like to just hang and do their thing.

It is a bummer about the loss of connection - we have been very transient due to career related issues... it is very much NOT what I had planned when starting my family, but you gotta roll with the punches and suck up the joy where you can.... the joy is definitely out there!

I would give anything to live closer to extended family so we could all lean on each other more. But since I don't, it does make it so I have to open up a bit more than I would otherwise to the community around me.

So glad you are back on the boards. Keep the musings coming....

[Stella]

We live in a pretty great community. I have 5 children ages 8, almost 7, 3, 1 and 7 weeks. My big kids pretty much run around in packs with other kids all day long. Sometimes the older neighborhood kids, teens, will take the 3 and 1 year old out with them. Even when they are at home, like right now, they have lots of playmates. They've been building a lean-to in the woods this week. Actually kind of a lean-to village. It's cool. They've been having fun.

Tonight is my weekly Girls' Night with a friend. We usually just sit out on her back porch and talk. Some days we'll have a bonfire. Tomorrow is my monthly neighborhood Women Who Cook group get-together. We're having a patio potluck. I was actually just getting online to get a dessert recipe to bring. I think I'm bringing Calvados bread pudding and a lemon buttermilk cake. It's a decent sized group. Some months we cook together, some months it's potluck. Anyone who wants brings wine or beer to share. Another friend will babysit and DH is going to an Indian restaurant with the other husbands. Afterwards they'll play ping-pong. Saturday night we have a group of kids doing the Great American Backyard Campout and a group of adults playing cards.

I think where you live can make a big difference. I felt pretty isolated when I lived in Los Angeles. Here, not at all. We live in the city here (Minneapolis) but we've got a lot of green space. Two ponds, a lake, woods, gardens, walking paths, a playground, an amphitheater for live music. It's nice.

[Mrs-M]

Lovely post, Acquius. Sadly, the dynamics of our daily lives (and the world we live in) has changed.

[Tussiemussies]

Do you think you could get your son involved in a play group. I babysat a little girl that I used to take to play group and she was a baby actually and it was very good for her and the Mom's too. At least that is the purpose of the group and other Mom's will be interested in your child too along with the other children. You might even want to do it bi-weekly since your son doesn't really see anyone else.

Or you could have him go to daycare two times a week for half a day. It would help all of his skills and he'll be there interacting with other children. This would only be for his sake but it would also give you a little time for something fun for yourself too.

Good luck with this siuation and keep us posted!

[sweetana3]

In our urban area, there were no kids except for a little girl next door. Mother finally took a day care child and then another so her daughter would have other kids to play with. Neighborhood is so important.

[artist]

Have you considered getting involved with a MOPS group or some other playgroup? When my son was small (he's 18 now), we were an active part of a group called Family connection. It was a group of about 45 families that got together twice a week in the basment of a church to spend time doing life together. We had a formal playgroup for our children, family pizza nights, snack time, story time, circle time etc... We did outings to the zoo and the river in summer. Mom's talked while kids played, friendships were formed and we got together outside of the group as well. The main idea behind it was that "it takes a village to raise a child" and being the inner city, there really wasn't that "village" feeling in the neighborhoods. Started with two moms getting together and then inviting others until it grew. We eventually offered a baby sitting co-op and a new mom parenting class. It was a wonderful time in our lives.

[Float On]

Moms groups are great. If you don't like the 'religious slant' of MOPS I know there are other groups out there.
We live out of town and when the boys were little I'd be at a MOPS group one day, another mom's group the next day, and drove 40 miles one way a day or two a week for programs at the library (the boys loved the 'reading to dogs' program). We paid $55 a year to use the public library because we were out of county (our local library is private and stinks).

I spent several winters freezing outside playing with the boys and the sight of them banging on the front door pleading "outside, outside, outside" will stay with me till death.

It did help that I had two boys close together (11.5 mts apart) they had a built in playmate and seriously ALWAYS got along. I on the other hand was raised on 600 working acres with the nearest neighbors being a mile away so I had a pretend friend named Jenny. We went to town twice a week - once for Sunday services and once for supplies. I survived :)

[pinkytoe]

I recall just such feelings when I had a little one many years ago. For some inane reason, we bought a house in one of those far-flung new suburbs where no one talked to each other. As the years passed and we lived in various houses closer and closer to the center of the city, that aspect changed. Currently, we are in the middle of a huge city in an older neighborhood where everyone "communes". We walk together, talk together, have gatherings, a neighborhood list serve, 4th of July parade for the kids, tree-planting group and on and on. I really do think it is the locale one lives in that makes a difference. I think all humans need nature and community but are so often ignorant of that aspect. Our modern world connects us technologically but I don't know if that satisfies the soul. Shopping malls need to go away...

[domestic goddess]

I can't answer many of your questions, but I would say that you probably don't need to be so worried about your son. 14month old children really don't have "friends", as most of us understand the word. They can play contentedly next to one another, but they usually are doing their own thing. Cooperative play comes later. And the mall probably isn't a good place to try to find playmates for him. People go to the mall with their own agendas, which usually involves getting what they came for and getting out, and a child who wants to be friendly is just going to make that more difficult, and their child may very well throw a tantrum when the two have to separate. No parent wants to go through that! So they scoop their kids up and head on before such a thing becomes likely. Your are more likely to meet people who are looking for socializing if you go to some sort of children's activity, as has already been mentioned. Everyone is there for the same reason, and the implied social contract is different than a chance meeting in a mall, on a busy day when people have other things going on.
I don't know where you live, but if there is a zoo nearby that is something that can fascinate a toddler for hours. So will a near-by park, botanical garden or forest preserve. He probably isn't as bored as you think; young children can spend hours observing an ant. He is more likely picking up on your dissatisfaction. If you can resolve some of the issues you have raised, I think you will find that his will just fall into place.
BTW, your son's social skills aren't "rocky". They are pretty normal for his age.