View Full Version : New welfare restrictions target booze, tattoos
Workable, or much ado about nothing? (i.e. impossible to carry out)
More useless laws are not something I like, but the sentiment is good.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/new-welfare-restrictions-target-booze-tattoos/article_69675d70-2f3b-5943-936f-e146d602caf8.html
I have no problem at all giving someone a hand if they need food or clothing or shelter. If they need cigarettes or porn or vodka more I say cut 'em loose. And yea, probably easier said than done.
Is there data to support that this is a problem?
I think it might restrict some impulse purchases - but for anyone willing to violate the rules they just need to plan a bit ahead to make it happen.
I would be curious who they might be outsourcing to to make this happen, and how much they are getting paid - it may be much more expensive to implement than anything that would be saved from it.
But why stop with welfare?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-06-20/news/ct-nw-food-stamp-spending-20120620_1_food-stamp-junk-food-supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program
Politicians, health advocates seek transparency, restrictions in food stamp program
Goal is for better accounting of billions spent, healthier choices
Is there data to support that this is a problem?
I can't point to a source, but I heard or read recently that the food stamp cards can be used to withdraw cash at ATM machines, which allows program administrators to track where the money is withdrawn.
If I recall correctly, their stats show that somewhere around 80% of all food stamp program payouts are in the form of cash, with an alarming percentage of that cash being withdrawn at casinos, nail salons, liquor stores, etc.
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-12, 8:59pm
I would be curious who they might be outsourcing to to make this happen, and how much they are getting paid - it may be much more expensive to implement than anything that would be saved from it.
Depending on how this is implemented it doesn't have to be difficult at all, which isn't to say massive padding won't be added to it to make the simple seem difficult.
If I recall correctly, their stats show that somewhere around 80% of all food stamp program payouts are in the form of cash, with an alarming percentage of that cash being withdrawn at casinos, nail salons, liquor stores, etc
I think we've covered this ground before, liquor stores have no common national definition it seems. Liquor stores here sell food, ok it might just be milk and juice and chips and so on, I'm not saying acres of fresh produce, just that they sell non-alcoholic edibles period.
...If I recall correctly, their stats show that somewhere around 80% of all food stamp program payouts are in the form of cash, with an alarming percentage of that cash being withdrawn at casinos, nail salons, liquor stores, etc.
Does this mean that food stamps don't go toward food? How can that be? I thought that the Food stamp program issued cards that were used at food places and purchases were limited to food type items.
Does this mean that food stamps don't go toward food? How can that be? I thought that the Food stamp program issued cards that were used at food places and purchases were limited to food type items.
As I understand it, food stamp cards are simply debit cards that have benefit amounts loaded monthly. I believe that many states also load TANF (temporary assistance to needy families) benefits to the cards. I'm not certain, but I believe that you can only withdraw cash if you also have the TANF funds loaded on the card as well.
As I understand it, food stamp cards are simply debit cards that have benefit amounts loaded monthly. I believe that many states also load TANF (temporary assistance to needy families) benefits to the cards. I'm not certain, but I believe that you can only withdraw cash if you also have the TANF funds loaded on the card as well.
This is Calif program:
"CalFresh Program The CalFresh Program, formerly known as Food Stamps and federally known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), can add to your food budget to put healthy and nutritious food on the table. The program issues monthly electronic benefits that can be used to buy most foods at many markets and food stores."
So benefit money goes to a debit card which can be used to buy food in many places - including liquer stores which carry food items - but you can not get cash directly. I believe that some types of purchases are forbidden. However, the problem they have here is that those debit food stamp cards are sold by recieptiants (SIC) for a fraction of their value for cash, then that cash is used to purchase other things like liquer, drugs, etc... There is a huge black market here for the cards - which are bought for a song from welfare reciepients, and then re-sold for a bit under the face value. Maybe they will intitute some kind of ID program other than just a PIN number.
ETA: OK, according to this you can access ATM machines: Sounds like it similair in most other states:
"Electronic Benefit Transfer (EBT) is an electronic system that automates the delivery, redemption, and reconciliation of issued public assistance benefits. EBT is the method for distributing CalFresh benefits (formerly known as Food Stamps and currently known federally as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) benefits), California Food Assistance Program benefits, and cash aid benefits. EBT is currently used in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam.
Recipients of public assistance in California access their issued benefits with the Golden State Advantage EBT card. The cardholder simply slides this card through a point-of-sale (POS) device, or uses the card at an automated teller machine (ATM). The card is convenient, secure, and reduces the stigma sometimes associated with public assistance.
The positive effects of EBT in California extend beyond the cardholder. Others who benefit include federal, state, and county governments, retailers, financial institutions, and taxpayers. EBT food and cash aid benefits can be redeemed at more than 80,000 locations in California."
Of course another side to this is that not everyone who sells their welfare benefits are using it to fund illegal drugs, alcohol or tatoos. This from a 2010 Huffington Post article:
"The New York Times crunched some federal data back in January and found that 6 million Americans now receive food stamps but no other form of income. Today, a new investigation from ColorLines in partnership with The Investigative Fund at The Nation Institute has uncovered one key to their survival: selling their food stamps on the black market for cash.
As a recent Depression-era diary edited by Big Money's James Ledbetter documents, during the bank closures of the 1930s, desperate families would sell their passbooks to shuttered banks for 50 or 60 cents on the dollar. Reporting in 2010 in the severely "recessed" city of Hartford, Connecticut, which has been struggling for decades to rebuild from the death of manufacturing, I had a case of déjà vu. There I met several unemployed mothers who've surpassed their lifetime welfare limits who told me they sell their food stamps at the corner bodega for 70 cents on the dollar just to cover basics like utility bills and winter shoes for their kids."
As I understand it, food stamp cards are simply debit cards that have benefit amounts loaded monthly. I believe that many states also load TANF (temporary assistance to needy families) benefits to the cards. I'm not certain, but I believe that you can only withdraw cash if you also have the TANF funds loaded on the card as well.
I believe the food stamp balance is not available to be withdrawn as cash, but both balances (SNAP and TANF) can be on the EBT card.
Maxamillion
7-24-12, 1:13am
I don't think they're talking about food stamps. As far as I know, food stamps can't be withdrawn as cash but can only be used on food (with some restrictions). I don't know much about other forms of welfare though.
ToomuchStuff
7-24-12, 9:06am
All kinds of fraud goes on with the E(ating) B(etter) T(onight) cards, here in MO. From those that, "I will buy you groceries if you buy me gas" (I've been approached), to selling the food, to the conveniencestore tricks where you can buy a soda with it, as long as you haven't opened the lid or put a straw in it. This doesn't even count the abuse to get to that point.
Never heard of them being used in strip clubs before, must be an interesting swipe. LOL
Unbelievable how much of the taxpayer's hard-earned money is just totally wasted in this country. It really ticks me off.
Unbelievable how much of the taxpayer's hard-earned money is just totally wasted in this country. It really ticks me off.We Canadians, share the same sentiment.
Unbelievable how much of the taxpayer's hard-earned money is just totally wasted in this country. It really ticks me off.
I agree! The hogs at Defense have no shame.
I agree! The hogs at Defense have no shame.
+1, redfox!
Not that I condone the use of EBT for non-food stuff, mind you. I'm just always amused when people define "wasteful government spending" as anything that does not benefit them personally.
Unbelievable how much of the taxpayer's hard-earned money is just totally wasted in this country. It really ticks me off.
A lot of it is wasted on corporate welfare and the likes of Halliburton--how many billions are still missing from Iraq?--but we generally only rake the underclass over the coals. Best not to poke our betters... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/diablo.gif
It's a sticky situation to be sure. I don't' like the idea of people using food stamps for cigs and booze any more than the next person, but there are people who do need help in buying food. I'd sure hate to punish them for the actions of a few. Food pantries just can't cover everyone. I really don't have an answer, and there may not really be an answer unless we are willing to toss everyone off. Or, we can hire more of those evil government workers to oversee this as most social workers are stretched beyond the limit. But, the benefit would have to outweigh the cost, and just as with the relaxing of certain requirements of welfare reform, the numbers crunched must be obeyed. The bottom line IS the bottom line.
I was also referring to other needless stuff............wars, stupid studies, unnecessary construction, too high salaries for some, money going to all different countries for all different things, etc., etc., etc.
In Mi, sadly I have seen people my son used to hang with (another story) abuse the system to no end the cash assitance seemed to be the worse. I lost all feeling of pity for the assorted people I was aware of, sadly it hardened me to the those in the system. Seems like not many women on sec 8 either were living without a man mooching off the system set up to help. Case in point last week the man living with the lady next door to my folks came over and asked if they would write a letter saying he did not live there, the sec 8 would be cut. My 80 year old folks said NO. I had to copy off the state site and email to them so they understood what was going on.
Off the site: DHS clients are issued a Michigan Bridge Card to purchase certain food products and access cash benefits at a number of retailers and ATMs throughout the state.
ApatheticNoMore
7-24-12, 5:33pm
I was also referring to other needless stuff............wars, stupid studies, unnecessary construction, too high salaries for some, money going to all different countries for all different things, etc., etc., etc.
It's all true. I tend to see this type of stuff in terms of COSTS, BENEFITS and UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. Food stamps and the total cost isn't even that high. The consequences of a few getting away with something isn't that great. What's the cost of the fix? What are the unintended consequences of the fix? How difficult does it make life for people collecting? (and no just not buying booze is not a difficulty! but other invasions of privacy and so on could be). They seem such an easy target, but really a target worth fighting? What are the costs of picking easy targets noone likes (and trust me noone much likes people buying booze with foodstamps). But if the fixes are worth the money and not terribly invasive then shrug ... it's hardly particularly objectionable either.
more control is needed. I am sorry to say that it would take more of those "evil government employees" for enforcement. I know in my small town we all see evidence of those who are getting endless benefits and acting out over and over. Names in the arrest reports, etc. I am one of those evil people, working in local gov who has not had a pay raise in 4 years, more work added each year with no additinal staff.
more control is needed. I am sorry to say that it would take more of those "evil government employees" for enforcement. I know in my small town we all see evidence of those who are getting endless benefits and acting out over and over. Names in the arrest reports, etc. I am one of those evil people, working in local gov who has not had a pay raise in 4 years, more work added each year with no additinal staff.
Giving out less wouldn't require more enforcement. But you're right, more regulations=more people to regulate.
I just reviewed a mailing from my state Senator. In it she points out that my state's biggest chunk of money, 30%, goes to social welfare programs. That should make posters here happy. My state has no real National Defense expenses to denigrate.
Let me get this straight: food stamps now come on a debit card. Right? FOOD stamps (or whatever they are calling it now) are issued to people so they can FEED their family. Right? The technology exists to allow these cards to only be used at GROCERY stores and only for FOOD. The argument that liquor stores also sell food is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Strip clubs sell burgers and casinos sell prime rib. SO WHAT? Forget regulation, if someone wants to abuse the system they're going to abuse the system. Benefit a million people and let a thousand get away with something. Oops, you sure fooled us! How about the rest of us end a war or two instead.
Funny it can't be easier regulated. I know our company credit card is programmed not to allow categories the state restricts - restaurants, hotels, bars, etc. There are hucksters on both sides of the issue. We have neighbors who run little stores for food assistance clients only. Everything is marked up to highest allowable price govt allows. They make very good money.
ApatheticNoMore
7-26-12, 11:49am
The technology exists to allow these cards to only be used at GROCERY stores and only for FOOD.
I'm thinking it would be implemented one of two ways. You either restrict the type of business they can be used at (this is EASY). Or well you could probably pivot off of existing infrastructures that indentify booze purchases in particular. Like what? Sales taxes. Sales taxes in California tax booze but not food. So that would be easy to implement in states that have such taxes, but not all states even have sales taxes so the infrastructure may or may not be there, I'm thinking.
The argument that liquor stores also sell food is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Strip clubs sell burgers and casinos sell prime rib. [
thinking of possible food deserts without a lot of choices etc.. Though if the liquor store is your only choice that's sad indeed!
Forget regulation, if someone wants to abuse the system they're going to abuse the system. Benefit a million people and let a thousand get away with something. Oops, you sure fooled us! How about the rest of us end a war or two instead.
Pretty much, I don't even doubt people abuse the system. I'm not interested in arguing people are all pure and noone could every abuse anything blah blah. But if you hired more full time government employees to police it eventually you'll probably reach diminishing returns pretty soon (plus creating a vested interest in the job of policiing! fully unionized to protect their jobs!), and although the systems I highlight above were not invasive of privacy really (like I said this stuff is already been done by credit card companies and by state taxing agencies), others could be. Yea I care about some privacy protections even on people collecting food stamps!, gosh how horrible.
Yea the states spend much on social welfare and education. And thus I have no real moral problem with most state spending, although I will say the level of corruption in state spending around here is getting out of hand (departments hiding money and claiming they are broke etc.).
The receipt from my regular grocery store has my purchases broken out into categories. Produce, dairy, liquor, etc. If the cash registers can already do that I can't imagine the technology isn't there to disallow some of those purchase categories with an EBT card.
I thought about the food desert thing. To be sure not everyone has a Whole Foods right down the street and I know its a real issue in some places. I've been in poor rural areas where it is a long distance to a grocery store, but its a long distance to anything. I've never been to an urban area where there wasn't some kind of option to buy food beyond beernuts at the liquor store within a few blocks. That said, some of the options were very specifically ethnic, some probably didn't take plastic and some presented other challenges that would need to be overcome.
Square Peg
7-26-12, 1:46pm
I have no problem with those restrictions, and I am surprised they don't already exist.
We receive food stamps in Washington state. When we go to pay for our stuff, we swipe our card and only the food is covered. Then we get a second balance for non-food products. So, yeah it does seem pretty easy to do. BUT there have been times when the cashier doesn't realize that it is and EBT card and will ring it as debit. When I get the message asking if I want cash back, I alert the cashier of the mistake, so I am not sure if it would go through or not. But I assume it would get kicked back as wrong currency.
I also think that the government may have to rethink the 5 year clause on welfare, given the current job market. Also, I do think that fraud doesn't happen as often as we are afraid of. I am more concerned with people who receive welfare under fraudulent circumstances than people who use their benefits fraudulently. Since the amount is predetermined, it doesn't cost the government extra if they are eligible but choose to use it unwisely.
thinking of possible food deserts without a lot of choices etc.. Though if the liquor store is your only choice that's sad indeed!
Agreed. But the question it raises in my mind is "What is a liquor store?" In Minnesota, grocery stores can sell only 3.2 beer. No wine, no spirits. But beer still is liquor. In other states, groceries can sell strong beer and wine. It's all still liquor. I'm guessing in some states, grocery stores can sell any kind of liquor. So what defines a store as a liquor store instead of a really-well-stocked grocery that also sells alcohol? Is it percentage of sales from liquor compared to food? Floor space devoted to each kind of product?
I'm not trying to be super-pedantic here; just clarifying the assumptions made when the statement is made that people are buying food at liquor stores. What, exactly, is a liquor store? And does not knowing the definition used skew the story a little?
Since liquor is state controlled, and welfare benefits are state controlled, it's not out of the realm of possible for the state to marry up stats for those two programs. I don't know how liquour stores are classed in my state since grocery stores may sell any and all kinds of liquour. But they aren't a liquour store--they are a grocery store.
So I don't know the answer to your question but I will answer with another example, similar in the sin game.
My city prohibits smoking in restuarants but allows it in bars. Steve might ask "what's the difference between a restaurant and a bar that sells food?"
I can assue you that the local bureaucrats have a formula to determine that. They look at food sales as a % of total income. Something similar would be possible for defining "liqour store."
Thanks to Washington's new laws, my Ace hardware store now sells booze. Big waste of shelf space, IMO, but if it keeps them open...
Maxamillion
7-26-12, 5:10pm
I have no problem with those restrictions, and I am surprised they don't already exist.
We receive food stamps in Washington state. When we go to pay for our stuff, we swipe our card and only the food is covered. Then we get a second balance for non-food products.
Same way here in Mississippi. When I swipe my card, it automatically only pays for the groceries. Other non-grocery items are automatically not covered and I pay for those separately. I don't drink but I would think booze would be categorized with the non-food items, so that it would already not be covered by food stamps.
I'm getting kind of lost in the discussion here - is the issue what people buy? Or where they buy it? Or both?
How about treating recipients as responsible adults, issuing them whatever safety-net amount is deemed needful, and then letting them manage their own finances, to their own advantage or detriment? Instead of being all paternalistic?
How about treating recipients as responsible adults, issuing them whatever safety-net amount is deemed needful, and then letting them manage their own finances, to their own advantage or detriment? Instead of being all paternalistic?
+1
iris lily
7-26-12, 10:36pm
How about treating recipients as responsible adults, issuing them whatever safety-net amount is deemed needful, and then letting them manage their own finances, to their own advantage or detriment? Instead of being all paternalistic?
ok, are you willing to see their children starve? I am definitely with you on the business of letting mom and pops spend all of their money on tattoos and beer in the first week of the month. I don't care what happens to them in weeks 2 - 4 of the month, nor do most people.
Many of the major welfare programs exist to prop up parents of children.
Most people don't have the stomach to see children suffer the extreme consequences of dastardly parenting. Do you?
gimmethesimplelife
7-26-12, 10:36pm
As I understand it, food stamp cards are simply debit cards that have benefit amounts loaded monthly. I believe that many states also load TANF (temporary assistance to needy families) benefits to the cards. I'm not certain, but I believe that you can only withdraw cash if you also have the TANF funds loaded on the card as well.There was a period of five months of my life when I was on food stamps here in Arizona, and I can say that there are some things they covered and some things they do not. I found it quite a bit disheartening that they covered soda and junk food for example - but heartening that they covered herbal teas and medicinal spices. They are not supposed to cover warmed pre prepared food in Arizona but at some stores they did. I never was on TANF and I never was aware I could pull cash out of my food stamp benefits - I am pretty sure you have to be on TANF to do that. All in all, I REALLY needed them when I was on them and am very grateful for the program. Just my two cents worth. Rob
Square Peg
7-26-12, 11:08pm
There was a period of five months of my life when I was on food stamps here in Arizona, and I can say that there are some things they covered and some things they do not. I found it quite a bit disheartening that they covered soda and junk food for example - but heartening that they covered herbal teas and medicinal spices. They are not supposed to cover warmed pre prepared food in Arizona but at some stores they did. I never was on TANF and I never was aware I could pull cash out of my food stamp benefits - I am pretty sure you have to be on TANF to do that. All in all, I REALLY needed them when I was on them and am very grateful for the program. Just my two cents worth. Rob
I don't know if they do this in all states, but in Washington you can buy vegetable and fruit seeds with your EBT card. Many farmer's markets are accepting benefits as well. Our local farmer's market is even running a promotion: spend $20 on your EBT and get five extra market bucks to spend.
gimmethesimplelife
7-26-12, 11:16pm
I don't know if they do this in all states, but in Washington you can buy vegetable and fruit seeds with your EBT card. Many farmer's markets are accepting benefits as well. Our local farmer's market is even running a promotion: spend $20 on your EBT and get five extra market bucks to spend.Two thumbs up to Washington for letting EBT cover seeds! I think that's great.....and also the farmer's market accepting EBT and giving out $5 extra when spending $20 on EBT....really a class act. I know I would have really appreciated all of this were it avaiable when I was on EBT in Arizona.....Rob
Square Peg
7-26-12, 11:44pm
It is really awesome Rob! Our current farmer's market is actually in Idaho. There is a local organization that does a $5 weekly CSA for EBT holders. That organization also had really inexpensive canning classes last year. I think it was $5 for a hands on instructional day, and we got to take home 6 quarts of applesauce.
Sorry for the off-topicness!
ok, are you willing to see their children starve? ... Most people don't have the stomach to see children suffer the extreme consequences of dastardly parenting. Do you?
Seems to me the problem there is unfit parents in general, and you need to think about how you want to handle that, in general.
If the parents cannot be trusted to feed their children instead of spending their food money on drugs, booze, and Xbox cartridges, perhaps they shouldn't be parents any longer...
If the parents cannot be trusted to feed their children instead of spending their food money on drugs, booze, and Xbox cartridges, perhaps they shouldn't be parents any longer...
Yup. And then what happens to the kids? Off to the neighbors or distant relatives, wanted or not? Who runs (and funds) the foster-care and adoption programs?
iris lily
7-27-12, 10:57am
... I am more concerned with people who receive welfare under fraudulent circumstances than people who use their benefits fraudulently. Since the amount is predetermined, it doesn't cost the government extra if they are eligible but choose to use it unwisely.
This is an interesting point. But I will have to argue this: sorry, if the recipients will be regularly spending my tax dollars on booze and pretty nails then I want that money back, and thanks. It's likely that SOMEONE is going hungry in their household if their food stamp money is often spent on booze etc, welfare benefits are not so great that booze & nails can be a regular staple. So if they choose to deny that person in their household basic sustenance, why am I, a distant taxpayer, supposed to care enough to continue to fund that travesty? If the money doesn't go where it is intended, give it back to me. Sorry, but your "it doesn't cost the government extra..." point is maddening (although I do see your logic, and agree with it.)
This reminds me of the feeding programs in the schools. We give needy families food stamps. And in addition, we feed their children in the schools lunch. Now we are feeding them breakfasts. Soon, I suppose, we'll be feeding dinners in the schools and then snacks. Why is that? what is happening to that food stamp money? Are parents incapable of making a peanut butter sandwich for their children to take for lunch? We can give them the financial means but not the will or the capability or the common sense to carry out basic child care.
And yes, obtaining benefits through fraudulent means is also a problem, one that could occupy an entire thread.
iris lily
7-27-12, 11:02am
Yup. And then what happens to the kids? Off to the neighbors or distant relatives, wanted or not? Who runs (and funds) the foster-care and adoption programs?
There is no solution, being the children of inadequate parents sucks. It just sucks. Whatever goobermental backup plan exists in foster care or institutional care is a far far distant second to having involved loving parents.
iris lily
7-27-12, 11:11am
I'm getting kind of lost in the discussion here - is the issue what people buy? Or where they buy it? Or both?
I have to say creaker that I was having the same thought at about the same point in this discussion, but that didn't stop me from wading into it and adding to the noise and the confusion. Oh just come in, the water is fine, you'll have fun!
There is no solution, being the children of inadequate parents sucks. It just sucks. Whatever goobermental backup plan exists in foster care or institutional care is a far far distant second to having involved loving parents.
Yes, and thus it is a bit of a red herring to bring up the "what about the children" line when worrying about which ATM public assistance recipients will be allowed to use, and whether they are shopping for goods and services that meet without approval...
I'm on the fence about this kind of thing. On one hand, I agree with bae. I think most parents, including those on assistance, are capable of managing their finances at the grocery budget level. It really, really bothers me to think of children going hungry because adults are spending their money on alcohol or other non-necessities, but I suspect that if the parent is an alcoholic, gambling addict, or otherwise inclined, they will find a way to get their monkey fed with or without restrictions and their children will continue to be neglected. That turns my stomach, it really does.
I usually don't worry myself too much about welfare one way or another, but there is a loophole that kind of bothers me. I have known a few women who got welfare because they were not married to their partner, who earned a decent income. One woman I know lives with her boyfriend who makes about $60,000 a year. She stays home and takes care of the "his, mine and ours" kids and gets food assistance because the income isn't hers and she isn't married to him. $60,000 a year is an adequate household income. Meanwhile, my friend who is a single mom without a boyfriend who earns $30,000 a year doesn't qualify because her income is too high. Sorry, a little OT, but it's something I think about when these issues come up. I don't know how you'd solve it. I expect it's complicated, but it does seem unfair.
ApatheticNoMore
7-27-12, 1:30pm
It seems odd to me that the foodstamp subject automatically becomes about children, maybe because all those who I have seen use (and abuse) the foodstamp system (little problem called addiction) do not have kids. Even many of those completely legitimately using the food stamp systems don't have kids. You don't need kids to get food stamps, though they can certainly be used to help feed children which is important. It's one of those odd programs where even adults without kids whose lives have gone wrong can actually get a little bit of help. You just need income below a certain level.
I agree that the welfare of children is a red herring in this discussion. At the same time they are the ones whose welfare I am most concerned with since they are usually not in difficult circumstances by their own hand. I'm not sure good policy can be made without considering the welfare, so to speak, of ALL the intended beneficiaries.
I agree that the welfare of children is a red herring in this discussion.
I don't see it as a red herring at all. AFDC/MAC/whatever is designed to provide nutrition to humans at a time they need it most -- as children. Children not receiving this benefit (because it's being used on booze or tattoos or whatever) don't stop being hungry. Malnutrition leads to illness and disease which, beyond the effect on the human with the illness, we likely will be paying for in taxes/medical care for the rest of those children's lives. Being hungry affects a child's ability to learn. Why add that to the burdens of a schoolteacher? Just hope the kid is really really good at some sport or singing and dancing?
The point is that, if parents cannot take care of their children properly, the children should not be the ones who suffer for that. We take children away from pedophilic parents. We take children away from addicts. Would that we didn't have to do that, but that's life. And doing that costs money, public or private. The trouble with private support is that it comes with strings -- religious affiliation, locale, behavior, age. So public support is necessary. Maybe the foster/adoption system could be a private/public cooperative effort, but I'm not hopeful about that because the missions are broadly different even if the goal is the same. Public costs -- taxes -- put this into everyone's domain. Like the old motor oil ad said, "You can pay me now or you can pay me later." I'd rather pay now.
I thought about the food desert thing. To be sure not everyone has a Whole Foods right down the street and I know its a real issue in some places. I've been in poor rural areas where it is a long distance to a grocery store, but its a long distance to anything. I've never been to an urban area where there wasn't some kind of option to buy food beyond beernuts at the liquor store within a few blocks. That said, some of the options were very specifically ethnic, some probably didn't take plastic and some presented other challenges that would need to be overcome.
For a long time there were no full-size supermarkets anywhere within the borders of Newark NJ. I just did a quick google search and it looks like that has changed somewhat. There now appear to be a C-town and two Pathmarks within the city's borders.
Looking at Detroit, another very down on it's luck rustbelt city, it looks like they don't have any large grocery stores.
Gary, Indiana. It looks like they at least have an Aldi's although it appears to be at the edge of town.
The problem with any of these cities is that probably the majority of people who live there and are getting food assistance don't own cars. Newark has pretty good transit options so I would think most people can probably get to the Pathmark or C-town even if it's not terribly close. However, when I mapped out the transit from a friend of mine's apartment to the Pathmark 1.2 miles away all options involved walking 1/2 mile. Not horrible, but certainly not ideal, especially if one has children to look after, or if they have serious mobility problems as my friend does. The corner liquor store that also sells milk, a few overpriced cans of soup, boxes of cereal and whatnot across the street from my friend's apartment could seem like a logical alternative in that situation. As for other cities like Detroit and Gary I'd imagine the transit options are fewer and farther away.
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