View Full Version : can good parents raise messy kids
Oh dear, I feel that I have raised really messy, no filthy, kids. It leaves me with options of constant nagging, making up rules that I struggle to enforce and/or cleaning a LOT myself. I am doing all 3, mostly this is my attitude and frustration.
I have given a lot of slack since my oldest had her baby and gave him up for adoption, was directly affected by Aurora shooting, and the rest of the kids are sharing their space so no one has much privacy. This is not normal times,
However if anyone has some sort of magic combo of rules, rewards, bribes, anything, to get kids (okay teens 15, 18 and 21) to just not be so dirty then share. Otherwise the answer is to wait for them to grow up and just go to sitting meditation a lot outside the home.
Every kid has their own mind - there is no "magic". You just keep trying.
Once they are of legal age, though, I think one had to decide whether they are helping or just enabling and go from there. I would not accept an adult child in my house who was messy filthy. They'd either need to clean up after themselves or get their own place to mess up.
Very funny today is soon after I posted this and then told my oldest I was frustrated with how much I just cleaned up she mentioned going back to her apartment. She has been living with us temporarily (I have had her live here before and asked her to leave 3 separate times). She was ready to go back to her own place when the shooting happened and she lives in the neighborhood so that was a traumatic thing.
tonight they are cleaning and I am 'supervising' while I crochet.
I'm a firm-believer in "early-on groundwork". (The establishing of proper hygiene, cleanliness, behaviour, etc, from the get-go). As with all things kids, no two are alike, however, molding and kneading a child's weak points to help flush-out problematic areas, definitely helps alter and provide for a workable foundation and a healthy understanding/structure between child and parent, as to what is acceptable- and what isn't.
Practicing my "early-on groundwork" method, doesn't mean incorporating rigidity or strictness per se (raw form), so much as it does, simply providing steady reminders and rewards, and following through with such requests as, "your room needs cleaned", or "I want you to pick up your clothes and hang them properly", followed by, "you know better", or "you know this isn't the way we live in this house".
What one is looking to do is curb common situations where the child/teen is allowed to dominate their environment to the point of being a leader, where everyone else in the household has to live around them. That's a no-no.
I'm not a mother so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt.
I don't think your value as a mother is conditional upon the level of neatness your children observe. To me that is just a non-issue. To me the big things are whether or not they are empathic, productive, honest and upstanding human beings. My guess is that you've taught them to be clean and neat they've just decided they don't value it.
If it were me, I wouldn't care how clean or filthy their own rooms were (provided the health department couldn't come in and issue critical violations--meaning filth is relatively non-organic.) But I would make them restrict their filth to their bedrooms.
I just feel like you can't micro-manage every aspect of their lives unless you want to be living their lives for them. You don't, right? Maybe this is the way your children are proclaiming they aren't clones of you.
Don't sweat the small stuff. Choose your battles. This doesn't sound like a big one to me.
I'm not a mother so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt.
I don't think your value as a mother is conditional upon the level of neatness your children observe. To me that is just a non-issue. To me the big things are whether or not they are empathic, productive, honest and upstanding human beings. My guess is that you've taught them to be clean and neat they've just decided they don't value it.
If it were me, I wouldn't care how clean or filthy their own rooms were (provided the health department couldn't come in and issue critical violations--meaning filth is relatively non-organic.) But I would make them restrict their filth to their bedrooms.
I just feel like you can't micro-manage every aspect of their lives unless you want to be living their lives for them. You don't, right? Maybe this is the way your children are proclaiming they aren't clones of you.
Don't sweat the small stuff. Choose your battles. This doesn't sound like a big one to me.
Exactly. If at some point being well-organized and tidy becomes important to them, you've given them a rough idea of how to proceed. Character, creativity, kindness, wit, scholarship--I can think of a lot of traits more important than housekeeping. My mother tried to shame me by showing a boyfriend my room looking like a blender full of clothing exploded in it. He wasn't scared off, and my bedroom doesn't look much different to this day.
Tussiemussies
7-29-12, 10:19pm
My sister and brother were very messy while living at home. Once they got their own place it was a complete turn around. Maybe this will also be the case in your situation?
"Good" and "messy" are not opposites, or mutually exclusive!
"Good" and "messy" are not opposites, or mutually exclusive!
+1!
That said, the mess clearly bothers you, and that is understandable. It is reasonable for you to expect them to keep the house neat. You are working very hard to put a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs. It's OK to ask them to contribute too.
cattledog
7-30-12, 10:11am
Aren't most teenagers messy? I've only remember one teenager in my life that was neat and organized- and she was that way from the time she was three or four. I'll admit, I have very low expectations for my own kid. I'd draw the line at having things in their rooms that attract rodents/bugs, but that's about it.
iris lily
7-30-12, 10:23am
+1!
That said, the mess clearly bothers you, and that is understandable. It is reasonable for you to expect them to keep the house neat. You are working very hard to put a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs. It's OK to ask them to contribute too.
Agreed, it bothers Zoe, she's The Mom, she can set the standards for her own house. But the devil in the details is how much of her own energy goes into maintaining the standards. If she is exhausted from work and she comes home to a messy house that further exhausts her, that's a tough sitch.
But Zoe, fortunately you do recognize that this is an especially rough patch that eases up in a while. The fact that it IS a rough patch is adding to your exhaustion. Hope your kids got things a bit cleaned up.
My parents are good parents, both neat and organized to a fault, and I am messy.
I am a "piler" and my parents are "filers." I like to have things out where I can see them. Meanwhile my parents, who are staying with us, are continually putting things away! I frequently call my mother to ask her where she put something away in my house.
Mom and Dad are also very "clean as you go" oriented while I prefer to let mess build up and batch process it once a week (the night before the cleaning lady comes). Perhaps your kids might be up for a once-a-week cleaning spree?
Well we had a little progress, I got up today and walked through the basement living area (we do not have much of a living area upstairs in the tiny house) and there was no food trash. That means no cups, plates, empty chip bags, spills of sodas, etc. Whew. That is what bugs me, not their rooms. I can shut the door after all, i just would like to sit on the couch and watch something without feeling compelled to clean the living area with bleach.
And my oldest is in the process of moving back to her apartment, it seems her roomate is starting to listen and make changes. It was so bad I refused to go in. It has been basically the hang out for many young men with smoking habits who spill things and eat the food and don't care because it is not their place. The roomate is 25 and i think he is getting some backbone about this with my daughter telling him when the lease is up she will not be his roomate again. If she had decided to keep her baby and took him back there then i would have been required to call social services on the situation and she knew that. Sigh,...
Wildflower
7-30-12, 9:55pm
As teenagers, I allowed my kids to be messy in their own rooms. They were not allowed however to let their mess spill over into the rest of the house. And they were definitely not allowed to leave a litter of trash, soda bottles, half consumed food anywhere in the house, including their rooms. We didn't fight about any of this stuff. The knew the house rules and if they crossed them they lost privileges. And may I say that they are grown adults now with nice, clean homes and Masters degrees. On top of that we are best friends. They turned out ok. :)
My 2 children are now young adults living on their own. My son is super neat and organized. My daughter is a total messy girl - I do not go into her house because it makes me crazy. However, recently she has started doing some super cleaning in her house - her roommates are not participating or seem to be appreciating what she has done - but she feels better. Honestly, I never thought she would get to this point! Keep your fingers crossed that this is on-going!!
Gardenarian
8-2-12, 10:31pm
Zoe Girl -
This is a tough one for me too. My dd is so sloppy! I don't mind so much when it's just her bedroom, but she likes to spread out all over the house and leaves art supplies, clothes, books, guitars, backpacks, and SHOES - geez, shoes everywhere.
It bugs me because it feels like a lack of respect. I work, I homeschool, I take care of the shopping and cooking - I feel the least she could do is put her darn dishes in the sink!! It's been bad this summer because she has been going to day camp and when she comes home she's exhausted and just wants to chill - as do I, after coming home from work.
My general theory with this has been to play to her strengths - she likes taking on a specific job and doing it just so (putting the dishes away or mowing the lawn.) It's the on-going maintenance that she's weak on, and that's what is getting to me. Since she was a toddler I've been telling her to put her clothes in the hamper, put away her toys (books, crayons) and so on. But being a teen has brought a whole new level of messiness, and I have been so busy and stressed (multiple health and house crises) that I am unable to micromanage her in the way she seems to need.
I really feel like we're both at fault, and I try to keep that in mind when I feel like taking all her stuff and throwing it out in the yard.
My goal is to keep my temper and work out compromises with her. It's not really working. I have a few days off next week and I'm hoping that we can work on this together. I hope she will work on it together.
I'll let you know how it goes. I was really hoping by this age that she would be doing more around the house - but what I'm getting is less.
Of course I love her like crazy and she is a great kid and all that. It's pathetic, really - we're talking about maybe 10 minutes a day of actual cleaning, and just putting stuff back where it belongs. But it sure does snowball fast.
~sigh~
And what is with the inability to use a hanger? Sheesh.
I say yes.
I also thought my sons would learn by example on so many topics, did not happen.
I always felt the acorn never falls far from the tree, sometimes the acorn drops and rolls.
Well, we're a family of messies, and I think I'm a reasonably good parent, so having messy kids doesn't mean you're bad or they're bad. They're just messy.
One technique that I had was to periodically set a timer for 10 minutes and as a family we'd all just go crazy running around and cleaning up. We'd do whatever we could in 10 minutes. And to add to the fun/effectiveness, we used to do motivating singing--I don't know the name of that song, but it's the song in the cartoons that they'd always play when people are running around: da-da-da-da-dahhhh da-da-da-dah. Da-da-da-dah-da-dah-da dada dahhh. (I'm feeling really stupid now, but if anyone can figure out that song, you'll know exactly what song I'm alluding to).
It really got everyone going and we accomplished a LOT in 10 minutes. ( have 4 kids, so that's like 40 minutes of work right there!)
I am glad some people get it, it is so frustrating. It is not like I have another place to go live after all.
We did pretty well during the years we spent more time together. So a whole house clean together was good, a few times I had them play cleaning service in each others rooms (with some strict instructions). I ran a home daycare so we always cleaned up together instead of just having mom do it. And then of course thinking they would get some shred of this by example.
What did not really happen was the transitioning into any amount of independance. So when my oldest works at the movie theatre and lives with me we can go days without seeing each other. I leave notes, send text messages, etc. Basically she gets up hours late, grumps that she has to go to work, doesn't leave enough time for her one chore, then of course after work it is the middle of the night so she deserves to hang out, snack and fall asleep on the couch. So we either get sick of it and clean it up or try to nag someone who is asleep or give up. I am HOPING that in fall when she moves back when her lease is up we will have a better understanding. She will be 22 after all.
We are seeing slight steps into this realm of taking care of ourselves. She made her DR's appointments recently, picked up a prescription, and is back at her apartment. I heard that maybe she needs a ride to the grocery store but I have not heard that from her yet. I am playing tough mommy on a lot of this, even that takes energy!
I was a messy kid. The one hard and fast rule was no food other than maybe some cookies or chips in your bedroom - and not the whole bag, just a few on a plate. And something to drink. Once I hit about 7th grade, I hit the messy stage, and the parents simply closed my bedroom door. The other rule was there had to be a clear path from bed to bedroom door. ;-) I didn't like filth, though. When I was in college, I had a roommate or two who drove me to distraction with their filthiness.
Now, I'm a minimalist, although I still throw stuff around, especially if I'm busy. But there's less to pick up now! ;-)
Tradd, I am surprised. I know you are a clean minimalist now so it is encouraging to hear you were messy once. I know this is temporary to some extent, just the length of that time is up in the air. My kids are good kids, however moving out is hard right now. The girls want to go to college, at least start community college, but it took one almost a year to find a job in this economy. I would rather get them out and handling life slower than end up in a situation they cannot afford at all. All the kids are really good managing money which makes me happy.
I am wondering how to restrict priveleges at this age, bigger question overall. I don't have a lot so there is rarely allowance. I involve them in deciding meals and a few things that I won't change. They are able to use the car but even that is pretty limited already so any further car restrictions would not be close enough to the time things were messy to make sense. They can get their own fast food and soda so I can't restrict that. Hmmm. Cutting out support for big stuff like help with college paperwork seems out of proportion.
I am going to just go with frequent feedback. So every morning it is clean notice it and every morning it is not then also notice it. And some type of contract for my oldest when she comes back again.
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