View Full Version : What an insane night!
Last night Zach and I were tired after a long day and decided to turn in early. At about 10PM we finished up the dishes and went to bed. At about 4AM I heard what I thought was the kids knocking on the door to our bedroom. The baby still sleeps in our room, so I got up quickly so the kids wouldn't wake her and went upstairs to see what they needed. No one was awake. I decided to go to the bathroom and sat there wondering what the noise could have been. I thought maybe I dreamed it.
Then I heard a man's voice coming up the stairs asking me what was going on. I thought it was Zach at first so I called down that everything was OK, the kids were in bed and I didn't know what the noise was. The voice repeated itself and then I realized that it wasn't Zach. I was terrified. I quickly finished going to the bathroom and in the hallway of my house there were two police officers. I was thinking that something had gone wrong nearby and asked them what was going on. They repeated their question to me and I was really confused. They said that a neighbor had called the police and said that someone in the area was fighting loudly and because I had forgotten to close my garage door they assumed it was us and came inside.
I told them that we were all asleep and it wasn't us and the officer started sneering at me, accusing me of lying, demanding to see my ID and yelling at me. I told him that I probably just left the garage door open, or that it popped back up (sometimes it does) and nothing was wrong. I told him that his knock had woken me and I had thought it was my kids, but everyone else was sleeping. He again accused me of lying and demanded to see my ID. At this point I was wondering if they were really the police because the bullying and beligerance seemed out of line for a police officer and I refused to show him my ID. I told him that I didn't have my contacts in and I wasn't about to go digging through my house in the middle of the night to justify my existance to people who broke in. He pointed to another purse of mine and demanded that I get my wallet out. I explained to him that I have more than one purse and my ID was in the green one, wherever that was.
He demanded to know why the hallway light was on and I told him it was because I came upstairs to see if the noise I heard was the kids and went to the bathroom. He told me he didn't believe me and that a knock on the door wouldn't have woken me. I suggested that the fighting must have been someone else and he said that was unthinkable because my garage door was opened. WTF? Really? That's pretty flimsy logic.
I told him that he had checked on us and we were fine and to please leave and he refused. I threatened to call 911 and they left.
I called the police dispatch a minute later and found out that they were officers and that a call had been made about a disturbance somewhere in the alley. This morning I talked to my next-door neighbor and she said that she had called the police about a couple who were fighting in the alley and had given them her address and name, but never said anything about who she thought it might be. She was mortified and incensed and called the police to complain about their heavy-handedness. That should make it a bit less he-said-she-said.
I went down to the police station as soon as the kids were up and filed a formal complaint. The officer who took my complaint (and lengthy letter I wrote) was extremely helpful and apologetic. He said that tonight the officers would be on duty again and a supervisor would speak to them about their behaviour. He said that he will call me tomorrow and gave me his business card.
I don't think I'd be mad if they just came in, asked if everything was OK and when they found out that it wasn't us, left, but to bully and badger me in my own home, rousing me out of bed angrily in the middle of the night and accusing me of lying is ridiculous. What happens when that man comes across a woman who does need help. Does he bully her and berate her the way he did to me? How would that possibly be constructive? I understand that adrenaline and emotions are probably running high when they enter a house, but if they can't control themselves they need to get some retraining and learn how to.
Deep breath. Trying to calm myself down and have a good day.
Originally posted by Stella.
I threatened to call 911 and they left.Great call. We've had similar cases arise here in Canada.
That is bizarre, and terrifying.
Where was Zack during all of this? I wonder if the cops thought he might be injured, bleeding, possibly dead.
The closest I ever came to this was having the police poke around our front porch area one night, making a racket. They were looking for a perp. That was creepy enough and I can only imagine the disorientation and fear of being roused out of sleep at night to have strangers of any kind in your home.
That was outrageous behavior on their part! You must have been terrified!
Do you not lock your doors? Did they break in?
VERY outrageous and unacceptable. It makes no sense at all Stella. I'm glad you filed a complaint.
That's really scary!
Zach came upstairs about a minute into it (after he got his pants on, LOL) and quietly let me handle it since I am much better with words than he is. :) I think between my next-door neighbor filing a complaint (they didn't even come and ask her for more information, just barged into our house) and our complaint something will be done about it.
Cathy, I had inadvertently left our attached garage door open. I thought I had closed it, but once in a while something goes wonky in the sensor and it pops back up again. I'll be double checking that in the future, no doubt!
Originally posted by Stella.
I thought I had closed it, but once in a while something goes wonky in the sensor and it pops back up again.My parents garage door has a lock-pin on it, so once the door is closed, you manually engage the lock-pin, eliminating the chance of the electric door-code mechanism misreading a false or pre-programmed signal/entry.
OMG! that is definitely police brutality. I would follow up if i were you to make sure something is done. At the very least you should get a formal, in person apology from the officers and a written apology from their superior.
Maybe they were all ramped up, thinking they were going to have some sort of fight on their hands, and they misplaced their angst onto you? Still unacceptable.
Was the door from you house to the garage open too? Do you live in a small town?
I would have been terrified.......thinking they were imposters and were standing right there in front of me! Even with them being "real" police, it must have been so scary for you.
That is just lunacy. I would have thought i was having a nightmare.
I'm surprised they didn't have their guns drawn, you know, so they could puff their chests out and bully you around that much more.
Domestic disturbance calls are troublesome for law enforcement officers all around.
He might have been being "mean" to see if there was something actually going on. You might have been an intruder. Was there a body in the next room? Were your children being held by someone violent as hostages while you were sent out to convince the police things were OK? Were you a victim of violence yourself, but in one of those unpleasant co-dependent relationships, and trying to cover it up, because "it'll be different next time, and he didn't mean to". Or a dozen other possibilities.
By rudely subjecting you to stress, and questioning you from a variety of angles, he may have been trying to get at the truth.
Or he may have just been a jerk.
ApatheticNoMore
8-9-12, 1:27pm
This is the type of thing you read about happening all the time in poor minority neighborhoods. But that this is now happening in presumably somewhat middle class Minneapolis, hmm not good. What I have seen cops do with my own eyes: called on an attempted suicide, gathering 30 cops before they will go in (well just extra safe I guess), waiting 1/2 hour to go in while 30 cops coordinate, then busting down all the doors kicking them, destroying them, even though the doors were not locked and they were probably at some point told as much (ie they could have turned the nob and received the same results). Yea cops pretty scary, I wouldn't call them except as a last resort personally, but last resorts (yes a person trying to off themselves is one, as is violence) happen. I think you'll get your apology, I doubt this is yet mainstream in Minneapolis (if it is heaven help us).
I've seen a single sheriff's deputy here talk down a suicidal armed man who was holding his wife and children in his home and talking about taking them along to the next world too. The deputy got him to put down his weapon and walk over to the patrol car to be taken away. Without using violence, only words. Took him about 45 minutes.
OMG! that is definitely police brutality.
No it is not. Honey, your worldview is just bizarre.
which is not to take anything away from Stella's upsetting experience.
ApatheticNoMore
8-9-12, 1:58pm
I've seen a single sheriff's deputy here talk down a suicidal armed man who was holding his wife and children in his home and talking about taking them along to the next world too. The deputy got him to put down his weapon and walk over to the patrol car to be taken away. Without using violence, only words. Took him about 45 minutes.
the amazing thing is the suicide attempt I talked about didn't even involve a gun, it was an attempt at self-poisoning :\
So sorry this happened to you, Stella (hugs)
the amazing thing is the suicide attempt I talked about didn't even involve a gun, it was an attempt at self-poisoning :\
Did you look into why they responded the way they did in that incident?
Perhaps they had poor information at the time and thought the fellow was armed?
Is there a local citizens' oversight group for that department?
(I don't think my local department could even get 30 people to show up for the Zombie Apocalypse, in the incident I mentioned above, the officer had to rely on other citizens passing by to direct traffic away from the problem area, he had no backup within 30 minutes.)
Here's what I think happened.
The cop who caused the trouble was young. Maybe 25, if that. He's still pretty new to the job and is probably, understandably, a bit excitable.
He gets the call and comes, rightly so, looking for trouble. The only thing he sees is an open garage door, so weighing the options he enters the house. He quickly realizes that he has made the wrong call, woken people who were sleeping and walked in on a woman going to the bathroom with the door open. He is embarassed and afraid he'll get in trouble and instead of just owning up to it, he gets himself in actual trouble (I would have totally understood if he had kept his cool)trying to justify himself by insisting that we are at fault and deflecting the blame. When I threatened to call 911 he realized he was getting himself deeper in trouble and left. I've seen that play out with my kids a million times. Someone makes a mistake, gets embarrassed and, worried they are going to be called out, reacts angrily and hastily. In retrospect, he had the exact same look on his face my kids get when they break a vase or let the cat out. I can understand this, but it's still not OK.
Hopefully you can turn this into a productive learning experience for him and his department with some polite-but-firm discussions with them and their civilian supervision.
Some people I chat with who have occasional run ins with unprofessional officers have taken to recording the interactions on their phones. I wouldn't go looking for the opportunity but it seems to be an effective tool when trying to get someone to take your complaint seriously later.
Yes, that's what I hope too. In the letter I wrote to the police department I mentioned that I think he needs more training on how to handle these things. I said that I understand that people make mistakes but that power comes with great responsibility and it's important for people, especially those in a position of authority, to own those mistakes. Anything else erodes people's trust in that authority and makes the overall climate more dangerous for both citizens and police. This is why I wrote a letter. :) I can be much more reasonable in writing.
Some people I chat with who have occasional run ins with unprofessional officers have taken to recording the interactions on their phones. I wouldn't go looking for the opportunity but it seems to be an effective tool when trying to get someone to take your complaint seriously later.
Good tip!
That sounds like a terrible - and terrifying - experience. Glad you and your family are OK. What I'm going to say is not to take away from your experience or tell you you shouldn't be upset, but to give another perspective of what seems to have happened. My husband is a cop and they deal with this kind of thing all the time. They got a report of what sounded like a violent fight in the middle of the night, found nobody at the scene, but found an open house (garage door) nearby. They were obligated to make sure the residents of the home were ok. The cops knocked and yelled, so you heard them. What if the person they were looking for had snuck in quietly - you would have never known they were there and God knows what could have resulted. The cops had to check it out. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't ID every adult there and insist on searching the house (for intruders, not for anything you'd done wrong). It's pretty standard for cases like this, or when they receive a 911 hangup call. They have no way of knowing who anyone is. Is that man in the bedroom really your husband, or an intruder pretending to be asleep, who threatened to come back and harm you if you gave him up to the cops? That's what things look like from their perspective.
That said, it sounds like they were incredibly rude about it. They should have explained what was happening and why they were doing what they were doing. They should have also let you call 911 if it made you feel more comfortable, so the operator could verify for you who they were and what the call was about. It sounds like they were doing their jobs, but sadly lacking in people skills. Any intrusion is terrifying, no matter who it is or what their intent. I hope you and your family are able to get some answers from your local PD, and to feel safe again.
No it is not. Honey, your worldview is just bizarre.
which is not to take anything away from Stella's upsetting experience.
It is, honey, when it's you in your nightgown in the middle of the night in your own home being brow beat by two men who just appear in your hallway. She was terrified, and in my book that's abuse. With all the armed and ready people out there, according to many on these forums, they should be glad they weren't shot for intruders!
When they first called up if everything was ok they should have then and there identified themselves as police, that they were responding to a fight in the area, and then so on and so forth... Then calmly ask to see her husband, whatever. Brow beating a woman in her own home in the middle of the night is not police procedure, I'm guessing.
As bae's cop obviously knows, brow beating gets you nowhere.
Stella, you're probably right about embarrassment turning into anger. I've seen that alot in people too. Too bad he couldn't have said "Well Ma'am, We see everything is okay here and there wasn't any trouble. Sorry for the intrusion."
There are all sorts of cops, just like in all other professions. You just always hope that they act fairly and professionally.
We've had a rash of police getting into trouble here in the city nearby..........drinking while on duty and running into motorcycles and killing one and maiming others, stealing, etc.
But there are also alot of good ones.
Hopefully that young policeman can mature quickly and learn better people skills.
Simpler at Fifty
8-9-12, 4:29pm
I am sure I would not have handled it as calmly as you did. Glad you filed a report too. I think you are spot on about the officer realizing he was wrong. The fact that they didn't split you up to question both of you tells me they realized nothing was wrong. No excuse for their actions though. You are one strong woman Stella.
Wow, Stella! That definitely is a rude awakening, on several levels....
Thanks guys! I always handle things better externally than I do internally, so luckily I kept my head pretty well for as scared as I was. I've been pretty shaken up today, but I'm sure I'll get over it.
Gardenarian
8-9-12, 6:52pm
Stella - what a horrifying experience!
Plenty of people in my neighborhood leave their garages open - since when is this suspicious behaviour?
((((hugs))))
OK, how would you all suggest that police deal with someone who may well be under duress and saying that everything is fine when in reality, it is not and she is in danger. I know that police are very concerned about going into a home with a domestic disturbance in play because there are so many unknowns and violent emotions.
If Zach was quiet and standing close by, it may have appeared that he was holding Stella under duress. Just saying...
BTW, how did they get in the house?
I would personally have suggested that, since my house was not specifically mentioned as the place where the altercation took place, and my next-door neighbor, who placed the call, gave them her name, address and phone number and was up with her lights on waiting for them to arrive, that they go and get more information from her. She would have immediately told them that our garage door opens a lot and that it was not our voices. She knows us very well. We are good friends.
The neighbor who called the police filed a complaint also. She knew all along it wasn't us and asked the police to come to her house, not make rash judgements with limited information.
razz, they got in because the garage was open. The door between the garage and the family room was not locked. I'm not even sure it has a lock. We've never used it in 30 years, at any rate. The small city newspaper for our suburb actually makes an Onion-esque joke column of the weekly police reports because they are so minor. Stolen bikes and whatnot. It's a tightknit everyone-knows-everyone kind of place with almost non-existant violent crime and very little crime in general. I think in this case asking the neighbor for more information would have been more prudent than assuming it was my house when no such claim was ever made.
Also, if it was me, I would think if you wanted to see if someone was under duress the first thing you would do is to separate the man and woman to ask them questions. I was clearly (very clearly as I had left the bathroom door open) peeing when they came in, without announcing that they were the police. Their first question was "what's going on?" to which I replied a casual "Nothing as far as I can tell. The kids are sleeping, I don't know what that noise was. I'm just going to the bathroom and then I'm going to come back to bed" because I thought it was my husband. It seems like a giant stretch to me that someone would assume that anything especially sinister was going on just because a disturbance had happened somewhere in the neighborhood. There are 50 homes in this alley. I don't think a simple garage door being open in a neighborhood where people regularly leave doors open and unlocked, is so suspicious that it warrants that kind of intrusion without even a simple fact-check with the person who called the police, who invited the police specifically to come and see her when she called.
Some people I chat with who have occasional run ins with unprofessional officers have taken to recording the interactions on their phones. I wouldn't go looking for the opportunity but it seems to be an effective tool when trying to get someone to take your complaint seriously later.
Actually, depending on where you live and your local laws, this can get you quite in trouble. Illinois has very strict laws on this, among the toughest in the country. Doing so would get you charged with a felony. Cops can record you, but not the other way around.
Actually, depending on where you live and your local laws, this can get you quite in trouble. Illinois has very strict laws on this, among the toughest in the country. Doing so would get you charged with a felony. Cops can record you, but not the other way around.
IL amazes me. No concealed carry and you can't record the cops? Seems un-American. Fortunately a court agreed and that was ruled unconstitutional: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-03/news/ct-met-eavesdropping-law-ruling-0303-20120303_1_eavesdropping-statute-police-internal-affairs-investigators-innocent-conduct
Well the night shift supervisor called and was as jerky as the cop. He talked to both me and my neighbor who called and basically called us both liars. The neighbor said that the disturbance wasn't even in the alley, it was coming from the sidewalk by the very busy main road on the other side of the pond. She is as upset as I am and we are going to work together to get it fixed. Luckily the supervisor's supervisor was very helpful and promised me that he would resolve this to my satisfaction.
Stella, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm also surprised that the kids didn't wake up with all the raised voices.
The only somewhat similar experience I had was a few years ago when I'd stayed up late to watch some TV. My family room has sliding glass doors out to my back patio, no curtains. It was 11 pm when I happened to see a flicker of light out of the corner of my eye, and two black-clad figures glide by my patio door. It took another few seconds before I saw the gleam of a badge on the shirt of the first guy, and my brain realized they were cops. Turns out someone had complained about the noise from the party of my next door neighbor's teenage son.
So - you'd think their response would be to knock on that door and tell the teenagers to cut out the noise? No, they come into my backyard and onto my patio unannounced, apparently to peer over the fence to see what the teens are doing. Maybe they wanted to catch them doing drugs? I still don't know to this day, because after a few minutes they left my back yard.
I never filed a report, but like you, I felt this was very poor police procedure. If I had been a nervous trigger-happy homeowner, one of these guys in the shadows could have gotten hurt or even killed.
But I'm glad everyone is okay at your place. Are you considering door locks now?
IL amazes me. No concealed carry and you can't record the cops? Seems un-American. Fortunately a court agreed and that was ruled unconstitutional: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-03/news/ct-met-eavesdropping-law-ruling-0303-20120303_1_eavesdropping-statute-police-internal-affairs-investigators-innocent-conduct
Seems like it doesn't matter where you are or what the law is, cops don't like being recorded, and people have been arrested for it. The internet is rife with their stories. Here's one: http://rochester.indymedia.org/node/6312
Stella, I am sorry that you went through this experience. (Should have mentioned that I thought that in my first response) It sounds as though you and you neighbour are going to be able to improve the training needed for the local force and how they handle similar situations.
Mrs. Hermit
8-10-12, 9:22am
If the response you get from the supervisor isn't gracious, the local news would probably love to story this. (You would, however, have to admit to peeing with the door open!)
Yossarian
8-10-12, 10:07am
cops don't like being recorded
Cops have a tough job but based on my experience misconduct is probably more common than most people know. The proliferation of recording devices could prove to be one of the better deterents to bad behavior. Like I said, I wouldn't seek out the opportunity but if faced with an abusive situation I think it is a good alternative to ending up in a your word versus the cop situation. In Stella's case it's just about aggravation, but there are plenty of other cases where people ended up in jail or worse.
Stella, what a strange night. I probably would of ended up in jail for trying to get them out of my house. You sounded pretty calm. I really think I'll start locking my doors and windows now.
Personally my takeaway from this is that you need to get and use a lock on the door from the house to the garage. Especially since the garage door opens itself on occasion. Thankfully in this case it was cops who came in... Someone else and we maybe we wouldn't be hearing a scary story that ended well, all things considered.
Talk about coincidence.
Just before lunch, DH and I were mounting a grab bar in the bathroom for those individuals who might need it. I held the item and DH was marking where the retention screws would go. Suddenly the doorbell rang persistently with lots of rapping on the door until I hollered that I was coming. It was a policeman at the door who asked me if we had sent a 911 call. "Us? No" I replied.
The officer did acknowledge that Bell had indicated that there was some service being done on the line when the call came through but the officer was just making sure.
About 1/2 hour earlier we had heard one ring on the phone and then nothing so assumed it was another of those random computer dialed calls where you answer the phone and there is nothing. Turns out a Bell serviceman somewhere was working on our line and the lack of phone service triggered a call from our security company. We tried the phone while the policeman was taking info and writing up his report and found it was not working properly with a fast busy signal but as we were listening the dial tone came back on.
Having this same experience in the middle of the night would be most upsetting so I can better understand what you went through, Stella,waking up from sleep and this disruption at nightime.
domestic goddess
8-10-12, 3:01pm
Stella, so sorry you had this frightening experience, but so grateful that no one was hurt, except for the frayed nerves. What if someone had shot the cop, thinking he was an intruder? Could that person have been tried and imprisoned?
I find it surprising and more than a little irregular that they didn't identify themselves immediately as police. That one thing could have gone a long way to easing the misunderstanding.
I have to agree with jp1: Get a lock for that door and use it!
early morning
8-10-12, 9:14pm
OMG, Stella, how frightening! I know quite a few cops. Some are great. Some are total jerks. Many are somewhere in between... Sorry you got the jerk, and glad you're all ok.
Stella, it was an awful thing to have happened but it could have been much, much worse if it hadn't been the police who came in through your open garage and unlocked door. Get the garage door fixed and a good lock on that door. The universe may have been sending you a warning. IMHO.
This whole story reminds me of a situation when I was a teenager that I'll never ever forget. It was summer. My older sister and mom had gone shopping one morning, leaving me home alone. My bedroom was in the basement at the bottom of the staircase. About 15 minutes after they'd left I started up the stairs and someone outside was twisting the doorknob on the backdoor of our house. Thankfully it was locked so they didn't get in. I turned around and ran back into my bedroom, waited a minute, then went back up and looked out the backdoor window, opened the door, peered out, etc. and there was nothing/no one out there. Mom and sister came home 45 minutes later and confirmed that they had not come back home unexpectedly. The fact that the door was locked probably prevented a really awful situation. Since then I've always been a fanatic about locking doors. Even if I lived in the 'safest' neighborhood on the freakin' planet I'd still lock my doors.
Woder what happened to the person who probably really needed police help.
domestic goddess
8-11-12, 2:00pm
IL amazes me. No concealed carry and you can't record the cops? Seems un-American. Fortunately a court agreed and that was ruled unconstitutional: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-03/news/ct-met-eavesdropping-law-ruling-0303-20120303_1_eavesdropping-statute-police-internal-affairs-investigators-innocent-conduct
Actually, there is still more to come on this issue. In Illinois, nothing is ever final until it has been done to death or SCOTUS steps in to intervene. Even then, some won't believe they really meant it, and it could go on for years.
Well I got an apology from the police supervisor and the main Public Safety supervisor (Police and Fire) and they promised to review my points of concern with the officers who were on duty. The dispatch gave them completely wrong information and when they pulled up the tapes of the call, they realized that the disturbance had actually been on the main road on the other side of the pond from my house. They filed a complaint with the dispatch company, and rightly so. Bungling information at that level put both us and those officers in danger. That needs to be addressed.
Nice to hear they are following up!
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