Something that happened on my last trip to Mexico.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I put it here, please feel free to move this if necc.....

Given my recent posts about emigrating, I wanted to post something that happened on my last trip to Mexico that I found very human and that I could not see happening here, that has nothing to do with health care or politics, just everday life.

The last time I went down I was there for three nights and two days, to have the final dental work for my mother done. We stayed at the same inexpensive dental tourist hotel we had stayed at last time. The staff there is ultra friendly and one of the staff asked if I wanted a ride to the store with him. So I said yes - on the way there we stopped for a good ten minutes and chatted with someone who worked there the last time I was there but since has taken another job. It was so surreal to me as I was on top of this hill, and you could see the US in the distance, and here I was in such a human situation as this man who drove me there was still on the clock and you just don't do this kind of thing in the US these days, you would be afraid to as it is all about production, production, production.....

I remember standing there practicing my Spanish and thinking for all it's problems, ( and Mexico has lots of problems I don't deny this) how HUMAN it can seem sometimes, and did I want to stay in a country where this human quality seems to me to be pretty much evaporated now? I just can't get this out of my mind, and to me it is up there with accessable health care in it's importance. Rob

[cattledog]

That is a nice anecdote, but that sort of thing does still happen in the US. From what I've read in the other thread, healthcare affordability trumps all for you, but I wonder if maybe you would have been happier in another state or region? People are friendly like that in the midwest. At least in my little part of the world.

[gimmethesimplelife]

That is a nice anecdote, but that sort of thing does still happen in the US. From what I've read in the other thread, healthcare affordability trumps all for you, but I wonder if maybe you would have been happier in another state or region? People are friendly like that in the midwest. At least in my little part of the world.Mabye it still happens in small towns, I don't know, but here in Phoenix, not going to happen. But I'm glad it's happening somewhere out there.....I really miss this quality to life, I really do. Rob

[Selah]

Things like your experience happen a lot in Israel, which is one of the many things I love about living here. However, similar things happened when I lived in Pahrump, Nevada. Not so much in "glitzy" Vegas, though. Maybe it's a big-city versus small town thing?

[Gregg]

If you think that never happens here you've never met the people that work for me! And, shock and awe, I don't disapprove of or discourage it. If they wanted to spend 2 hours a day catching up while still on the clock then maybe I would, but to stop and chat with a friend for a few minutes is just a part of life. A good part. And yes, small towns often have a little slower pace, but the flip side is that everyone can see every move you make. Cities have a level of anonymity, you can disappear into the crowd, that makes it pretty easy to "get away with" talking to a friend for a few minutes. It's probably just a case of being more likely to bump into someone you know in a small town.

I don't know any of these theoretical, Potteresque misers that would can someone who simply stops to talk to a friend for a few minutes. Not trying to be snarky here either Rob, but you're kind of on a roll beating down life in the US and promoting all things south of the border. Have you asked yourself honestly if this is really a matter of things being so much better somewhere else or if you're looking south through rose colored glasses because things aren't going according to plan right now here? The "human quality" you describe that you believe has "evaporated" in the US is part of my everyday life...here in the US. Life's pretty much what you make it, not what a Mexican dentist or a Chilean politician does. Your recent posts just seem like you're trying to convice yourself of something more than you're trying to convice the rest of us.

[iris lily]

For most of my life I've wanted to live in the UK. Not for their social programs (though I have nothing against that) but for the cultural history that they preserve there with emphasis on the great old buildings. I've said: If I win the lottery today, tomorrow I'm jetting off to the UK to live, for a while anyway; I'll get a house in Yorkshire and a cottage in the south and perhaps something in Scotland.

But in reality, my community is here and with my adult wisdom comes knowledge of how things really work. And how that whole live-in-the-UK thing would work would be that DH and I would always be outsiders, our money would buy our entry into charitable events and boards and such, but we'd never really be accepted by the group we respect and want entry into. Realistically, the social nuances of strata would be lost on us anyway since as mid westerners we are as close to recognizing classless-ness as is possible here in the U.S. We sort of get hints of class here in St. Louis (old southern money emigrated north) but in general, we are stupid about it. And we like it that way.

[Yossarian]

You need to pick whatever balance is right for you, but I think you can find the full spectrum here in the US. My wife is from a small town in Alabama. Drives me nuts when we visit because it takes forever to get anything done because everyone wants to stop and talk forever.

[CathyA]

My brother (who is 64) was thinking about retiring in Mexico. He's been learning spanish and signed up for a week of living with a Mexican family and being taken around to places by a spanish teacher. He said it was a wonderful experience.
I do think you can find experiences like this everywhere, but sometimes you really just have to get lucky.
This was 42 years ago, but I traveled in Europe alone. There were always wonderful, kind people to help me through.
It would be great to live in a place that was like this all the time.
I'm happy you had such a neat experience!

[gimmethesimplelife]

If you think that never happens here you've never met the people that work for me! And, shock and awe, I don't disapprove of or discourage it. If they wanted to spend 2 hours a day catching up while still on the clock then maybe I would, but to stop and chat with a friend for a few minutes is just a part of life. A good part. And yes, small towns often have a little slower pace, but the flip side is that everyone can see every move you make. Cities have a level of anonymity, you can disappear into the crowd, that makes it pretty easy to "get away with" talking to a friend for a few minutes. It's probably just a case of being more likely to bump into someone you know in a small town.

I don't know any of these theoretical, Potteresque misers that would can someone who simply stops to talk to a friend for a few minutes. Not trying to be snarky here either Rob, but you're kind of on a roll beating down life in the US and promoting all things south of the border. Have you asked yourself honestly if this is really a matter of things being so much better somewhere else or if you're looking south through rose colored glasses because things aren't going according to plan right now here? The "human quality" you describe that you believe has "evaporated" in the US is part of my everyday life...here in the US. Life's pretty much what you make it, not what a Mexican dentist or a Chilean politician does. Your recent posts just seem like you're trying to convice yourself of something more than you're trying to convice the rest of us.Honestly here in Phoenix you would not do this. I thnk it's wonderful that you let people do this but on any job I have ever held since the boom was over - granted when unemployment was low then there was room for some of this - if there was any question of why something took five minutes longer off property than management thought it should you would be explaining this away.....The thought of having to deal with this pretty much cuts of the behavior, at least for me. But I will agree that living in a small town perhaps things are different and TO BE FAIR I also think if I were self employed there would be more room for this kind of thing.....Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

My brother (who is 64) was thinking about retiring in Mexico. He's been learning spanish and signed up for a week of living with a Mexican family and being taken around to places by a spanish teacher. He said it was a wonderful experience.
I do think you can find experiences like this everywhere, but sometimes you really just have to get lucky.
This was 42 years ago, but I traveled in Europe alone. There were always wonderful, kind people to help me through.
It would be great to live in a place that was like this all the time.
I'm happy you had such a neat experience!Thanks! This is something that I love about travel in general and something that works for me about living in a border state - 3.5 hours away from me there are a range of very different experiences to be had, both good AND bad. And some very surreal ones, at least to me, such as this one I posted. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

You need to pick whatever balance is right for you, but I think you can find the full spectrum here in the US. My wife is from a small town in Alabama. Drives me nuts when we visit because it takes forever to get anything done because everyone wants to stop and talk forever.Maybe it's true that my perspective is off from all these years of living in a big city.....that could be. But I can also say when I have worked isolated resort jobs in the middle of nowhere - it has been the exact same thing. But it could be argued that isolated resorts are not the same as small towns.....Rob

[Rogar]

If you think that never happens here you've never met the people that work for me! And, shock and awe...

I've only been to mexico as a tourist, but used to go annually and tried to stay in out of the way non-touristy places. My perception based on limited experience is that there are some significant cultural differences in lifestyle and things are just slower and a more relaxed pace. It's not to rule out similar or better things could happen here in the states. But they probably take on some different characteristics. I have lived in just about every sized town or city there is, and have to say that having a casual charitable act from a basic stranger has been rare. But I've had many generous favors from friends, neighbors, and workmates over the years.

[cattledog]

Mabye it still happens in small towns, I don't know, but here in Phoenix, not going to happen. But I'm glad it's happening somewhere out there.....I really miss this quality to life, I really do. Rob

I've never been to Phoenix, so maybe I'm way off-base, but it strikes me as a city that's kind of transitory in nature. Maybe that contributes to that vibe.

Also, I sense that you have kind of made your mind up about moving out the U.S., so I think that maybe it makes it harder to be objective about the good things the US offers. Trust me, I've been there. I left a really good job to stay home with my kid. If I made a list of pros and cons about the job, the pros definitely would have outweighed the cons. Sometimes you have to go with your gut and just do what's right for you.

[puglogic]

Rob, this is the reason I wouldn't live in Phoenix or in any large go-getter city, no offense to anyone who lives there. The pace of a transient, tourist-based, highly conservative and xenophobic place is just all wrong for me, though naturally there are exceptions if you build a community of like-minded people around you. If that is where most of your experience has been, then it is no wonder the lure of a laid-back, friendly place like Mexico appeals.

You might think about living in a small, "normal" town -- one NOT dependent on a constant faceless flow of "tour-ons" and thus desensitized -- for a while before deciding the only way to get this kind of warm, real experience is to leave the U.S. The relaxed, human experience you mention? It's that way where I live: unpretentious, kind, and open-minded.

I lived in Mexico for a number of years and it definitely has its upsides and downsides. In the long run, I took from that experience the core of what I most wanted -- an affordable lifestyle, warmth & friendliness, priorities, etc. -- and was able to find it here in a country where I felt safer and more in control of my own destiny. I still love Mexico/Mexicans, but would not choose to live there forever, especially not in a border town. Just mho.

[Gregg]

I'm from a very small town out in the middle of nowhere. It was a wonderful place to grow up. It is a wonderful place to go back and visit. The pace is slow. VERY slow. Even the rust seems to move slower there than in other places. I don't live there because I like a life that is a little more dynamic than what it offers, but it works for a lot of folks I know. People walk out onto the street for no other reason but to talk with someone, anyone, who happens to pass by. It would take a little while for an outsider to be fully accepted, but they would be invited to everything from the day they arrived and would be the center of attention...like it or not. It's VERY cheap to live there as long as you take a few easy steps. You can buy a house there for $5,000 if you are a handy type or $30,000 if you want something all fixed up. Electricity is cheap (public power state). To eat cheaply you would have to grow a big garden and put up the harvest for winter, but its in an agricultural area so the climate is good for gardening. Besides, everyone in town has a garden so there are lots of mentors. Healthcare is from a full time PA living in town and a rotation of doctors who visit on wildly different schedules. It's a LONG way to any kind of regional medical center (300 miles +/-) so not a place to go if you have serious health issues, but then how far is it from Guachochi to Chihuahua? Beyond that there just isn't a whole lot of things to spend money on. There are thousands and thousands of places just like that all over this country. It's definitely the kind of place someone could go without leaving the country if it was important to keep your own language and culture, but you just wanted it at a slower pace.

[Spartana]

Honestly here in Phoenix you would not do this. I thnk it's wonderful that you let people do this but on any job I have ever held since the boom was over - granted when unemployment was low then there was room for some of this - if there was any question of why something took five minutes longer off property than management thought it should you would be explaining this away.....The thought of having to deal with this pretty much cuts of the behavior, at least for me. But I will agree that living in a small town perhaps things are different and TO BE FAIR I also think if I were self employed there would be more room for this kind of thing.....Rob

I lived in a small coastal resort town in Spain (L'estatit) for about 8 months and I have to say that most things job/service-wise took forever because of the more relaxed additude towards work people had. Always taking long breaks, chatting to others, relaxing, etc.. not to mention the several hours long lunches (siestas) that were taken everyday. While it was very friendly and cordial - and something I adapted to fairly quickly - I agree that in the USA it is less common and is something that is generally frowned upon. But if I was an employer or customer paying money for a job, I wold probably frown upon it too if it was constant or went on for long periods of time. If you were paying someone to do a job for you by the hour, and they were spending a fairly large amount of time chatting with others rather then working, then that job could cost twice as much in the end - and that money would be coming out of your pocket. While I do think it is nice to be friendly and helpful to others, I also think that if one is being paid to do a job, they should be doing that. As you said, the Mexican guy who was driving you to town was "still on the clock" and I assume he was still getting paid by his employer - who was in turn getting paid by the customers - you. Maybe the extra he had to pay his employee meant he had to raise rates at the hotel effecting your wallet? But I do agree that the slower pace of doing business has a positive feed back in many areas - it's just a matter of balance. I just know in Spain it would take 5 months to do a job that would be finished in the USA in one month. And not because the americans were over worked, just because the Spanish workers had a more relaxed work additude.

As far as moving out of the country - I agree with Gregg. I think there are many places in the USA both large and small that are friendly and slower paced places to live. But healthcare IS a big concern for many (and Rob) and that is one reason so many people do retire to places like Mexico. Not only is the pace slower generally (too slow sometimes) but the cost of living can be SOOOO much lower for everything from housing to healthcare to food and transportation. There are social issues, but that's the case anywhere. While wouldn't want to live in a hot country weather-wise, I could see emigrating to someplace like eastern europe if it were still inexpensive (it's not).

[JaneV2.0]

But you could enjoy a nice, leisurely meal without feeling like you had to slam down your food and move on pronto so as to maximize profit for the proprietors . And if the culture you grew up in valued life's pleasures and people over constant busyness and profit, you probably wouldn't mind the leisurely pace. One of the real regrets in my life is that I didn't live in Europe when I had the chance. I've come to suspect I'd fit better there, despite my fondness for sparkly consumer goods.

[flowerseverywhere]

I have experienced both sides not only here in the US (I've move 14 times) but abroad as well. You meet some people that want to rush, are only interested in money or do illegal things. You meet others who are wonderful.

Just today, I was going to the supermarket and one of the workers who was in the parking lot helped me load my groceries and took my cart back because he was going that way while striking up a friendly conversation- his job was not to take carts in but he stopped while going to work just because it was a nice thing to do. We were just away for over a week and the people we hired to mow the lawn did not show so a neighbor did it just to be nice. While we were travelling I was looking at a map, standing on a sidewalk and a passerby asked if I needed directions - I told him where I was going and he showed me where it was. Not one of these people were in any way rude or threatening, but went out of their way to be nice.

All the time, living in a medium sized town I see acts of kindness and politeness.

[Yossarian]

Maybe it's true that my perspective is off from all these years of living in a big city.....that could be. But I can also say when I have worked isolated resort jobs in the middle of nowhere - it has been the exact same thing. But it could be argued that isolated resorts are not the same as small towns.....Rob

One other thought- haven't you moved around a bunch over the years? I wonder if the people who have lived in those places for 20 years have the same experience you did.

[Spartana]

But you could enjoy a nice, leisurely meal without feeling like you had to slam down your food and move on pronto so as to maximize profit for the proprietors . And if the culture you grew up in valued life's pleasures and people over constant busyness and profit, you probably wouldn't mind the leisurely pace. One of the real regrets in my life is that I didn't live in Europe when I had the chance. I've come to suspect I'd fit better there, despite my fondness for sparkly consumer goods.

Don't get me wrong - as a customer I loved it (and as a worker I loved it even better!!). Except when you are waiting for the cable co. or the plumber. When "sometime today" becomes "sometime this month... or next". Especially if I'm paying them for all the time the work/job takes. Two sides to everything.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Certainly it has a lot more potential to be rewarding for most than things like career or money (which may be necessary yes). Because human behavior and thus spending time with people is always potentially, although of course not always actually, novel, exciting, interesting, rewarding. What one wants sometimes is just serendipity (serendipity - is there a word less driven? a word less like the lives we live?), things like running into someone one knows just because.

[Gregg]

It always strikes me as curious that a faster pace automatically gets associated with making money, generating profit, being a wage slave, all the evils of the business world. Certainly there can be a connection, but only some times. I have friends in NYC who live life at a pace that would kill me. They are wealthy enough to not have to work at all (sold a business a few years back), they just WANT to live like that. It has nothing at all to do with profits or incomes or demanding bosses.

This is a simple living forum so it makes sense that most of the people here would gravitate toward a bucolic, slower paced lifestyle because that is what most of us associate with simple. Then we reinforce each other until we seem to think that should be the ultimate goal for everyone, that our way must be best. My friends actually live quite simply, not inexpensively, but simply. Their home is filled with things they like. They get up when they feel rested and go to bed when they feel tired. They exercise regularly so they feel good and are able to do the things they like. They spend as much time as they can with friends. They love good food and wine. They love going to hear music and see to shows. All the same things that add quality to my life, along with many others here, they just like to do it all at 100 miles a minute. The cars that get stripped down, with all the extras removed, are sometimes the fastest, too.

[Yossarian]

Except when you are waiting for the cable co. or the plumber. When "sometime today" becomes "sometime this month... or next". Especially if I'm paying them for all the time the work/job takes. Two sides to everything.

Exactly. I don't really want my universe of service providers to suddenly turn into the cable company. 10:00 means 10:00, not 4:00 because you ran into a friend and had a lesuirely lunch. If you manage it right it allows you to get things done faster so you can do things like hang out with friends and have leisurely meals.

[RosieTR]

Try Grants NM. Seriously. My car wouldn't start after a battery terminal connector rusted through*, and after I got a ride from a stranger to a mechanic shop, they fixed it. After their 3 hr lunch. But they also arranged a bus ride for a couple who totaled their car on I-40 nearby. Pretty sure I would not have gotten in a stranger's car in Phoenix even if it did appear to be a nice old man, although my car probably would have been fixed faster. So I suppose there are advantages and disadvantages, but for me it's nicer to be in a smaller friendlier place. However, if Mexico intrigues you and you can make a move there happen, why not?


*the connector should have been checked and replaced by the mechanics in Phoenix two weeks earlier, whom I asked to check the car over for an out of state road trip. >:(

[pinkytoe]

It's that way where I live: unpretentious, kind, and open-minded.
We always felt like the town we live in was that way but since the invasion of boom town money-grubbing developers and style seekers, it has done a 180. They are saturating our neck of the woods and it becomes harder and harder to find "just folks" who like to have gentle conversations. I am dealing at work now with new co-workers of that ilk and any attempts at being human or real with them are fruitless. They don't get southern friendliness. And I don't get them. The trick for us when we finally move is finding a smaller, slower paced locale that is also open-minded. The two don't usually go together.