Generational differences?

[domestic goddess]

This is something that has come up in conversations that dd and I have had before, and it came up again today. I was telling her about something that happened at the RNC, and she said that she thought it was a stupid thing, but that she didn't see anything racist in it. To me, that was the whole point of the incident. As we talked, she made a comment about how she has noticed that people of my generation, who lived through the Civil Rights movement tend to ascribe a lot to racism, while people of her generation don't. Do you think this is true?
I have to say that since her SO seems to delight in spending way too much time trying to amuse me with racist jokes, I have taken a pretty dim view toward the idea that the difference is solely in the experiences of the different generations. Many of his family that I have met seem to have thinly veiled feelings of racism, and I fear that that is rubbing off on her, just through association. I can guarantee that she wasn't taught that in our house, and I am a little shocked that she isn't more sensitive to it. I am really saddened and somewhat angry that she has allowed other to influence her so negatively. And I am seeing an increasing number of racist and borderline racist comments on Facebook from a number of her friends, who are also friends of mine. Is this just some insular thing I am seeing, and not a real trend? Or are others seeing it, too?
I realize this might have been posted in Public Policy, but it involves family members, so I thought of this forum first. If it seems good to move it, go ahead. My dd often tells me that there are real differences in perception of current events in our two generations, but I'm not sure I really think the difference is just generational. Some of the things I've heard come out of her friends' mouths make me think that they have just adopted a far more conservative stance that I could ever be comfortable with. It kind of shocks me that my own dd has adopted that stance, too, but she is an adult and there is nothing I can do about it. But I am really trying to understand if this is really a generational issue, and I'm just "out of step". If so, I don't think I want to be in step with some of what I'm hearing.
Maybe I should just sign this "an old hippie"

[awakenedsoul]

The power of influence is strong. What kinds of things is she saying? What kind of jokes is her boyfriend making? I would trust your feelings, if you're offended. I notice big generational differences with society in general, now that I'm almost 48. I also notice that I seem to mix well with some cultures, and clash with others. Sometimes in my case it has to do with macho behavior, how some cultures view a single woman. Some are just class differences. I live in a working class neighborhood and I grew up in a wealthy neighborhood. It's very affordable here, but I was raised so differently than most of my neighbors.

[Gardenarian]

I see this too, and kids seem to see this kind of joking as being "open" about racial differences. I think it's ugly. I guess this is part of the dialog we'll have until we all are truly color-blind.

The political climate has changed so much since I was young that I have gone from being centrist to leftist to radical progressive, without ever changing my views!

[razz]

May I suggest that what the issue may be is perception of how your DD would see similar comments made about her?
Rather than being racist, can the wording be described as inappropriate? Could it be posted on a billboard without triggering serious comment?
Is there a way that you can phrase an offensive sentence so that it becomes more apparent to DD?

[Stella]

I can't speak to your DD's situation, but I do think there are some generational differences. Our circle of friends in California was almost entirely non-white. My husband, Zach, is dark skinned with black hair (Welsh) but I am pale, freckled and redheaded. My older daughters' godmother, who is Hispanic, makes jokes all the time about being Hispanic and about her fiancee being white. My other best friend in California, who I named my daughter after, made quite a lot of jokes about being Mexican and their family had a running joke about her oldest son, who was very pale, being some white boy Sancho's kid (Sancho is slang for The Other Man).

Our friend Christian, who is half black and half Samoan, has a very Dave Chappel-type sense of humour and made a lot of jokes about being a gigantic (6ft5, probably 300 lbs) black kid. When we went out he used to pretend that Cheyenne, who was glow-in-the-dark white as a baby, was his just to see the confused looks on people's faces. He joked about Kathy being Hispanic and me being white. I'll admit to having made a few jokes about my Jewish and Scottish heritage to smooth over the fact that I'm cheap. The thing is, we all really loved each other as people. Really loved each other, like call me in the middle of the night crying and I'll answer loved each other. Christian went out in the middle of the night to get me an avocado off a tree in the park because I was craving them. Still love each other, just from 2000 miles apart now. The joking was a way of acknowledging that we all came from different cultures without worrying that every little step we made was going to be taken as an offense. You can't really get close to people if you constantly have to be on your guard.

That said, there's humour that's just mean-spirted and humour that is not. There's also some that walks a thin line. It takes a lot of social awareness to walk that line and not everyone is gifted with that sort of social IQ.

[Alan]

Racism is a funny thing. Some people see it everywhere ( I understand that the word Chicago is now a racist term).

I think people who see others as "other", and feel guilty about it are probably the worst offenders as they are so prolific. Perhaps that is generational

I can only hope that one day people will take a more conservative approach to different cultures and races and finally achieve Dr King's wish that people be judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be within my lifetime because there's just too many well meaning but mis-guided people who must judge others based on their appearance.

[redfox]

Race is clearly a social construct, since we're genetically the same species. I do not believe that ignoring this social construct will make it go away; that is a head-in-the-sand approach. Pointing out the impacts of race prejudice is an important part of the ongoing movement forward in this country to eliminate racism. Prejudice is rarely conciously chosen; the typical example of the KKK marching down the street is easy to point out as blatantly chosen race prejudice.

The subtle, woven into society behaviors are harder to surface, and intention is often at odds with impact, in my view. In other words, I may not intend to harm someone by my unconcious prejudices, but that does not lessen the impact on the receiver of my behavior. Seeing racism everywhere is not difficult in a racist society. Seeing the solutions everywhere is also not difficult once one takes some time to listen to the impacts that both concious and unconcious behavior has on all of us. The definition of racism is prejudice plus the power to enact that prejudice. I have prejudices, as do we all. My responsibility as a respectful adult is to understand my prejudices and keep them from influencing my behaviors. It's not always easy, but it always important.

I do believe that there will come a day when our skin tones will not matter, our ethnic & cultural differences will be widely respected and viewed as a joyous part of life, and our inherent worth and dignity will be honored by all. I am therefore not an advocate of color-blindness; I am an advocate of racial equality and ethnic/cultural diversity as a strength of our country & society. I am also an advocate of strong legal remedies for prejudice that makes it into action.

Here's an interesting piece of writing about the history of whiteness and challenging white supremacy:
http://www.toolsforchange.org/resources/org-handouts/challenging-white-supremacy.pdf

[Alan]

I do believe that there will come a day when our skin tones will not matter, our ethnic & cultural differences will be widely respected and viewed as a joyous part of life, and our inherent worth and dignity will be honored by all. I am therefore not an advocate of color-blindness; I am an advocate of racial equality and ethnic/cultural diversity as a strength of our country & society. I am also an advocate of strong legal remedies for prejudice that makes it into action.

I believe that used to be called "Separate But Equal".

[JaneV2.0]

I believe that used to be called "Separate But Equal".

Could you explain further? "Separate but equal" was American apartheid--"Whites Only" drinking fountains and schools. So civil rights law is exactly the opposite, from my historical perspective.

I see a lot of aggressive interracial sniping trending, too. Not the multi-cultural ribbing that naturally goes on among friends, but much darker. In a way it's probably a good thing, because it makes it easy to identify people who are an embarrassment to themselves and everyone within earshot. It reminds me of co-workers who used a completely different vocabulary when women were present. I finally told them I like to know who I'm dealing with, so please carry on as usual.

[Mer05]

Specifics would be very helpful here, as others have mentioned. There are certainly generational differences - awareness and interpretation of events shifts, resonances and implied meanings aren't passed on. Language changes a lot, and what is acceptable to say changes as well.

I'm not aware of a great groundswell of racism in my age group (on the border of X and millennial). I do notice a certain ignorance/resistance/willful blindness to the persistence and ongoing effects of racism and sexism, on the part of the privileged. Not new in itself, but the idea that all that got fixed ages ago (we learned it in school!) and is therefore Not Our Problem is probably generational?

[iris lily]

The closest we get to laughing at minority jokes is laughing at gay jokes, almost always made by gay men. Because gay men and women are fully integrated into our social groups we love them and recognize their differences but mostly their sameness. Certain terms like "Queens" and "cruising" used by one of our older gay friends give me pause, though. That is generational. I think "Queen" is derogatory. We are not talking about drag Queens here.

Race OTOH is a very difficult issue and is a minefield for outrage,hurt, whatever. Certain things I've found funny just aren't worth defending, there will never be a meeting of minds.

[awakenedsoul]

I found that when I worked as a dancer, it seemed to erase race. It was more about talent, passion, and art. You shift somehow, when you're in that space. You see the spirit, not the package. We were all working towards the same goal, a successful show. The friendships on those projects were incredible. We had a soul connection.

I think when we have racial problems with people it's because we are bumping up against our differences. This could be different belief systems, ideas about the role of women, how we feel children should be raised, ethical treatment of animals, etc...

I've noticed that I just feel more comfortable around certain groups. Although I'm a white woman, I feel most relaxed and myself around my black friends. I don't know why. I also enjoy working with gay men. I find them talented, funny, and attractive. Although I love the Argentine Tango music and choreography, I couldn't handle the culture. I took classes for a few months and I was going crazy! It helps to know where you fit in and where you don't. I was so exhaused after those sessions! I was grating on their nerves, too.

I was also thinking how with animals, there doesn't seem to be that division. They are able to coexist peacefully, for the most part.

[redfox]

I believe that used to be called "Separate But Equal".

??
I too would appreciate some clarification.

[SteveinMN]

I found that when I worked as a dancer, it seemed to erase race. It was more about talent, passion, and art. You shift somehow, when you're in that space.
I find that when the connections between people are ideas in the service of a common goal (a successful show, great software, a sports car), the meritocracy that forms ignores attributes like race and even creed. Then it's all about who can do it best, and the good conflict engendered in raising, defending, fine-tuning, and executing those idaes is a positive thing. It's when people have little more to do than think about what they have or what they want that more-superficial differences rise to the top.

[razz]

I find that when the connections between people are ideas in the service of a common goal (a successful show, great software, a sports car), the meritocracy that forms ignores attributes like race and even creed. Then it's all about who can do it best, and the good conflict engendered in raising, defending, fine-tuning, and executing those idaes is a positive thing. It's when people have little more to do than think about what they have or what they want that more-superficial differences rise to the top.
+1

[Gardenarian]

Here is a specific: my daughter (caucasian, blonde, blue eyes) has mostly friends who are Asian, Pacific Islander, Hispanic, mixed heritage. They make generalizations (often derogatory) about "blue-eyes" (whites) and for a while called my dd "Barbie", which was really upsetting to her (she resolved this situation.) This happened the most often between the ages of 9-12.

I don't think racism of the really nasty sort is having any kind of resurgence.

And I have to say that she only got this from kids who attended school; she never had a problem with her homeschooled friends.

[ApatheticNoMore]

This happened the most often between the ages of 9-12.

Well at that age if it hadn't been race it would have been something else. If she was overweight it would have been "fatso". If her clothes were not fashionable it would have been mockery of her clothes. Etc..

[Zoe Girl]

So here is my twist today, I had a student in my before school program use the n word and was heard by a teacher. She was goofing around with her brother and his 5th grade friend. Apparently she was given some time out space and thought it was all funny. So then after school I sat her down to talk. I asked her about what she knew about the word, where she had heard it, etc. Just open ended type of questioning at first. Then i explained a little about why it was so bad to use (this student is not white, I would guess native american and hispanic) at an age appropriate level.

I did do a behavior write up for her so the parents knew (I was not able to stay until they picked up) and wrote on it that she was not in trouble however we talked and needed to talk to the group of kids who were using this word and shorter versions of the word. This is hard to work with, the kids hear this in movies and talk to each other this way, and even though I think they do know they should not talk this way I am struggling with HOW to talk about it.