View Full Version : Of Mothers & Merchants (surrogacy).
This (http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audioplayer.html?clipid=2216418174) was such a great listen, I wanted to share.
What's your view/take on surrogacy? Are you for it, or are you against it? How about the moral context of such?
Would really like to discuss the issue.
It makes the most sense to me in the context of family--a sister carrying the child, for example. Paying a stranger to take on the risks and the responsibility of a pregnancy doesn't sit as well, but assuming everyone is wholeheartedly on board with the idea, it's their business entirely.
I wish fewer people were so concerned with having a genetic connection to their child. I just feel sorry for the many children shunted through the foster care system year after year and who eventually "age out" of adoption possibilities.
I know one size doesn't fit all when it comes to procreation and creating families but I think IVF and surrogacy is an area that hasn't done a lot of good for humanity as a whole even though it's done a lot for childless couples desperate to have their own biological children.
My comment is not about judging those who do use scientific methods to have their own biological children. I just feel sorry for those children who have no families. I also feel the judicial system that errs on the side of "preserving parental rights" whenever possible, keeping innocent children as captive victims of inadequate, abusive and neglectful parents well longer than they should be also contributes to this complex problem and these children are the ones who suffer the most in this situation.
Mrs-M, I don't see the link to the article/clip you referenced - just FYI!
Disclaimer: I don't know anyone who's been a surrogate or used one. I can think of factors that would make it more or less 'weird' to me personally, but I mostly agree with Janev2.0: if the arrangement is between consenting adults and doesn't end up in court, it's not really my business. (From what I've read on the subject, when such agreements break down, the legal issues get very interesting, very quickly.)
I wish fewer people were so concerned with having a genetic connection to their child. I just feel sorry for the many children shunted through the foster care system year after year and who eventually "age out" of adoption possibilities.
I know one size doesn't fit all when it comes to procreation and creating families but I think IVF and surrogacy is an area that hasn't done a lot of good for humanity as a whole even though it's done a lot for childless couples desperate to have their own biological children.
My comment is not about judging those who do use scientific methods to have their own biological children. I just feel sorry for those children who have no families. I also feel the judicial system that errs on the side of "preserving parental rights" whenever possible, keeping innocent children as captive victims of inadequate, abusive and neglectful parents well longer than they should be also contributes to this complex problem and these children are the ones who suffer the most in this situation.
I'm with Bunnys. I've seen more than one marriage almost destroyed by the conflict between a husband on one hand who "had to have a son of his own blood to carry on the family name" and a wife who was willing to adopt. In one of these marriages, the husband was the son of immigrants and was very concerned about maintaining the ethnic/national identity. The "old country" had plenty of children in orphanages due to economic conditions. His wife wanted to adopt from his parents' country, but that wasn't even good enough. IVF, fertility drugs, etc., had not been successful for any of these couples.
But there are issues with adoption, too. Many of the children come from troubled families and things can be difficult for the adoptive family, as a result. NPR had a piece on this within the past week. The piece talked about the extensive programs some counties/states have to support adoptive parents and the children adopted out of foster care - counseling, etc. There is a problem with the children adopted having too many psychological/personality issues as a result of their family of origin and/or being bounced around in the foster care system. Increasing numbers of adopted children are being given back to custody of the state, NPR reported, because the families simply cannot cope with the children's issues.
https://www.npr.org/2012/08/28/159928096/helping-foster-kids-even-after-adoptionhttp://
I couldn’t get the link to work, Mrs. M. but I will chime in with my opinion anyhow. I see no moral/religious/etc. problem with surrogacy. I can see where there might be legal issues, people being people and making decisions initially that they might find difficult to stick with for any number of reasons.
I don't know about surrogacy, but there is no way I'd contribute genetic material to one of those efforts. In my younger days I didn't think that was a big deal (all practical issues aside) but now, I take more seriously my role as producer of potential humans on earth and I want to keep track of where those humans go.
I agree with you Iris. I don't have kids (never REALLY wanted them) but now I'm really glad I didn't have them. Wouldn't want to be responsible for having created a life and left it behind in a world that I think has dire problems.
Maybe if more of the world was committed to Simple Living I wouldn't feel this way...
Please note, a little patience is required with the first link I posted. I find it takes anywhere from ten to thirty seconds to load, however, it should start playing automatically.
Here (http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2012/03/28/of-mothers-merchants-commercial-surrogacy/) is another link-posting of the program. Let me know if this one works better.
Before I listened to the program I had mixed feelings re:, however, after listening to those involved with the process, I was sold. My only concern would be the eventual health and welfare of the child (after I gave the baby up). Is the family absolutely, positively dedicated to this child? Will they unconditionally love and care for the child like I would? Etc. Additionally, I also believe I'd battle with a strong connect with the child afterwards, and would more than likely be troubled by continual thoughts and wonder over having to live-out my days removed from the child's development and growth.
I know there are no guarantees in any areas Re:, but what a special gift to be able to give someone life. To be able to take away the hurt and pain of a mother and fathers anguish over having to exist child-free.
Mighty Frugal
9-2-12, 10:05pm
Unless you have first hand suffered from infertility you can't understand the utter despair and frantic urge you experience.
Sure in a perfect world there wouldn't be children in any orphanage in any country. I just read an article about a woman adopting from Ethiopia and how hard it was to do so. Years she waited, piles of paper work she filled out, 10s of thousands she spent. I think if countries made it easier to adopt it would happen more often.
I know a couple who added almost $30k to their mortgage to have their twins (IVF)
As for surrogacy, I think it is a wonderful gift. I would do it (if I were younger) providing it was with the mother's egg or a donor egg. I could rent my womb out no problem for an infertile couple.
But it's easy to say 'oh, why don't they adopt? What's the matter with them?' but until you've walked a mile in their shoes, you just can't understand.
In the end, if a couple fails to have their 'own' child they do often adopt, but they need to decide when enough is enough
Originally posted by Mighty Frugal.
As for surrogacy, I think it is a wonderful gift. I would do it (if I were younger) providing it was with the mother's egg or a donor egg. I could rent my womb out no problem for an infertile couple.I think I could do it, too. It's unfortunate that whenever something shows as being highly sought after (like adoption), there's always a stiff price tag attached.
I have to answer this one today, because it's sort of near and dear to my heart. I say sort of because I can't say first hand in any way -- I am not nor have I used a surrogate, nor have I struggled with infertility.
So, here is my take.
Foremost, I believe in accessibility from a legal stand point. That is, I believe that these things should be legal, and that the law around them should be clear.
Secondarily, I could not be a surrogate for myself, simply because I do not wish to be pregnant again. When my sister was trying, my parents volunteered me to surrogate for them, which I thought was weird. I told them all "no." Even though I'd had a great pregnancy, birth, and baby, it doesn't mean that I wanted to go through that process again -- whether for myself (ie, to have a second child) or for another (surrogacy). It's not to be cruel or anything, it's just that I don't want to go there again. I think it's ok to have personal limits.
One of my friends is practically a professional surrogate. She has birthed 5 surrogate babies and loves being pregnant and being a surrogate. Her first was born to a friend in her church, and then a second was a friend of that friend. The third and forth were through the fertility clinic that managed the zygotes of the second couple, and the fifth was through a web site that connects surrogate and families. She is happy to have more. She had her first at 20, her own child at 22, and then the remaining at 25, 28, 30, 32. She likes to wait at least two years, and she thinks that she'll be able to surrogate for at least another 3 babies.
She prefers closed adoptions, but all of them are open because the families want them open. For her, it's "tougher" to have open adoptions with the children in her church because the families have high expectations of her in terms of holidays and the like. She's not greedy, but she lives simply, has her own daughter and husband, and her own big, extended family. So the emotional obligations that these people put on her regarding their children has created some tension for her. They expect gifts, attending parties and family events, etc. So, she's had to be clear that while she loves these families and their children, she isn't necessarily going to be "involved" in their lives any more than a "random community member" or friend may be. For the families who are further afield and less related, they are happy with her sending cards, but more often, they are just sending her updates and she's happy to receive them. She sends christmas and birthday cards, and everyone is happy with that.
With the web site that connected families, they live in another state, and they are simply on FB together and that's easiest for her, so she hopes to do the remaining surrogacies with them becuase it helps her keep the distance that she prefers.
I think she's pretty amazing, btw.
Third, for my own part, I do not think I would go this route to have a child. I can't say that absolutely, but when DH and I discussed having children, I told him that I would not put myself through fertility treatments or IVF. It's just how I see things with my body. I would *never* inhibit anyone else from having babies in the way that works for them, but I can decide what is right for me.
I would prefer adoption, honestly, and always have. I was clear with this for my husband in the beginning (before we were solid on dating even. I think it was our second or third date when this came up. I waste no time. LOL).
At this point, we are very happy having one child, though there are days when my hormones whisper to me about baby girls. As if I have any control. I did look into adoption here in NZ, just in case we would want to go that route. It's actually quite affordable and simple, but it's a lottery. And, adoptions are open, with extended family (whanau) having access (not rights, but they can have or ask for visitation rights through the court systems and be awarded that). So, it's a bit complex, but could work out. International adoption is fairly simple, too, so long as you are going to certain countries -- such as Russia, Ukraine, India, etc. This second option is much more expensive -- estimating about $25k. For the first method (local adoption), the estimate is around $10k.
I don't think it's ever an easy decision. Several of my clients with fertility issues have completed all rounds of IVF and decided not to do surrogacy or adoption. So, they are finished on that end. And then we have very near and dear friends in the US who were looking at IVF, but realized that it was simply too expensive for them to go that route, and then they decided that adoption wouldn't be right for them either. They are still struggling with the emotional side of moving forward when they both wanted children very much, but. . . this is where they are.
And that's what it's pretty dear to me. Because I feel for my friends.
Great post, Zoebird! P.S. (I've really missed your company). Like really, really...
I had to smile over your comment Re: your hormones calling out to you/whispering to you about baby girls. I spent hoards of time thinking what life would be like without a daughter. My mom suggested I wear a pink diaper pin (to call-upon the powers-to-be for a girl), and a blue diaper pin for a boy. I never did.
P.S. Love that your friend has helped so many.
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