View Full Version : feeling some grief
I think I am in a grieving process over finances. As some of you know it has been a rough couple years, however I am doing okay as in employed and insured. Still I think it is just time to grieve this stupid money deal. I will just highlight
* having felt so positive and proud to finish a masters, and 5 years later still qualifying for no payments because of low income
* using large amounts of money in my divorce to simply get through the divorce and pay for it, and having no legal way to stop my ex from dragging his feet which therefore cost a lot of money
* being so good at being frugal, and dealing with the unreality of family and outsiders of what it means, how difficult it is, (I am tired of getting comments or jokes about how cheap I am when there is very little choice involved)
* wanting a vacation, even just camping, but not having time or money (my daughter got a job so on weekends I drop her off or pick her up because we have one car and the buses stop running by the time she is off work)
* the constant balance between not acting poor or telling the kids we are poor but limiting driving, limiting certain foods, etc.
* realizing I actually have a really decent income in many ways, but having most every budget fall apart, I know you factor in unexpected expenses and I have and they came a little too fast with no end in sight, and adjusting but rarely getting it to add up
* being afraid that between me and my kids it will just all run out, my oldest still needs some help now and then and my middle is trying to take care of things but also runs short
* finally getting all my bills consistentlly paid on time every month and then having 2 bounced child support checks (hey I covered it without bouncing anything) and lateness while my ex builds a deck and gets a purebred dog, so my credit report is not recovering from the foreclosure which means I cannot even open a new checking account when i checked last.
* a huge one is dealing with the overall society, which includes my mother, that is very clueless about money and getting regular pressure to move to a more expensive place, replace a car, do more dental appointments for the kids faster, ... instead of having some decent gratitude and awareness. Really a lot of people live like I do however the media (and my mother) make such assumptions of how we should live. My moms visits could cost me a couple hundred in what she thinks I need to replace/improve/throw away,
Really, I spend a lot of time looking at the positives as well. I pay the insurance for the children and we truly need that. I adapt and adjust to everything. I am super proud of what I have done with school and my career and being frugal, however I can still grieve for the things I worked hard to get and maintain but are gone and the regular stress
Zoe, I feel for your situation. I think you're doing well to think positively of what you have achieved. It seems like a lot of life's "surprises" have bunched up on you, and that's tough. But I think you'll make it through. You're defining your simple life, and that overarching value will carry you through what other people think. I hope the rest of us can help, too.
sweetana3
9-14-12, 10:17am
Zoe, you should be totally proud of your accomplishments. There will always be others who spend more, have more, want more, etc. Even Bill Gates/Buffet has to worry about security for self and his family. You deal very well with what you have and that is really the most important thing of all. Your kids are learning a good life lesson that working hard and dealing with what you have right now is critical. I guess I seem to see those who have so much less or have such horrible health problems that it makes me grateful for what I have.
Heart to heart time with mom. I think you need to sit her down and proudly and clearly explain just what you have told us. She perhaps doesnt really know how she is affecting you because you are covering it so well?
"the constant balance between not acting poor or telling the kids we are poor but limiting driving, limiting certain foods, etc." Your kids should be helping you with the frugality and learning at the same time. They need to understand limits are there for a reason. Remember they are not going to jump into life and their own jobs earning a huge income. They need to learn their own survival skills.
try2bfrugal
9-14-12, 11:50am
If you are a single mom in this economy able to have a job, pay your bills and have insurance you and your kids, you are doing great. We limit driving and certain foods just because we are frugal. We have a lot of meals that cost $2 - $5 for four just because, well why not save the money if we can take advantage of loss leaders and bulk foods? Much of our entertainment these days come from day trips instead of vacations because we can take day trips to parks, the beach, attractions with free passes from the library or our reciprocal museum card for free except for gas. We are joining meetup groups and hobby clubs for lots of free activities each week.
As far as your mom I think you just need to set boundaries with her. Just say mom when you point out what I am not providing financially for my kids it hurts my feelings. I am doing the best I can and to make your visits more enjoyable for both of us it would be better if we didn't discuss my finances.
awakenedsoul
9-14-12, 12:02pm
My mother used to give me financial advice, and I really regret taking it. She suggested that I buy my groceries on a credit card and just pay the bill after I got paid. (At the time, I only got paid once a month. I would run short the last week of the month.) She also advised me to buy a car on credit. My older car was breaking down constantly, and the repairs were expensive. Before that, I had always bought $1,000. VW's. I should not have listened to her. She meant well, but she doesn't know anything about money. I learned the hard way. Once I started the Dave Ramsey worksheets, everything fell into place. I think most everyone is cutting back now. We have to...it's good training for the kids. You sound like you are doing a terrific job.
Thank you all, I just had to get that out I guess. I can relate to AS, my mom is great but she has never been the breadwinner of the family. After my divorce I started working part time at Target while going to grad school and student teaching. She told me to quit for 6 months. One day in frustration she said 'I don't know why you are doing this, after all P (my ex) is paying the mortgage', I calmly informed her that I was paying the mortgage (and did get enough money to do that). Since then she has been shocked that my kids have insurance because I often stress about money, and that is part of why but is very important. She has suggested I just get a loan for a car and I had to explain my foreclosure once again. Part of it is not being great with money, and the other part is she really and truly does not listen when people talk. She is 70 now, I have set some boundaries but I am also realistic about what to expect. I talk to my aunt now and then for my reality check in.
My kids are pretty great about this, yes they very much help! They all do things like cook from scratch and don't ask for super expensive things. They are so much better with money than their dad has ever been. It is just wearing on us all at times. Gotta say I love the grandparent gift of NetFlix! Gives a great entertainment value without worrying about money.
ToomuchStuff
9-16-12, 1:13am
Grief?
You mention bounced checks, from a guy who probably financed, and/or bounced checks to pay for those other toys. Don't feel grief, go learn how to take the checks to the prosecutors office. (that should put a stop to it)
Your mom evidently doesn't know your finances, so you can either show her them and your values, or you can tell her to word that starts with F and off. I had to do this with a banker relative, who if I had listened to, I am sure I would have had at least one bankruptcy by now. (I came real close to losing everything once and being homeless, due to being switched from a witness to a defendant in a multiparty case with two deep pockets). I do, what I can do, and that is it, no more. I am not here to impress people nor do I care to keep up with the jones. I have one friend who makes just shy of seven figures, and I am almost extremely at the opposite end. I haven't been on vacation since 1983 and don't foresee one for years, so I am not about to do what and where my friend wants me to.
By most's accounts, I am poor. Yet I have paid off my house, and have no debt. Seems to me, this grief is more of jealousy and self pity mixed together.
Some times we all need a kick in the pants.
rodeosweetheart
9-16-12, 8:11pm
Gosh, ToomuchStuff, that seems kind of mean to me. I don't see how your situation, with a paid off house and no debt, is really a helpful comparison to what Zoegirl described here, and why you are judging her emotions so harshly.
But maybe I am missing the point; wouldn't be the first time, LOL.
Why would she want to put her ex-husband in jail for writing bad checks for child support?
I agree with rodeosweetheart...I think Zoe Girl was up front in her posting about just needing to express her grief about where she is financially right now in spite of doing everything "the right way"...the way that should have brought her more financial stability. She's not saying that she is the first person it has ever happened to...or that she has it worse than everyone else in the world...she is just saying that she has had to recognize some hard truths about her life. If you can't come to a board like this and express your feelings about such an issue, than that is pretty sad indeed!
awakenedsoul
9-16-12, 9:12pm
Thank you all, I just had to get that out I guess. I can relate to AS, my mom is great but she has never been the breadwinner of the family. After my divorce I started working part time at Target while going to grad school and student teaching. She told me to quit for 6 months. One day in frustration she said 'I don't know why you are doing this, after all P (my ex) is paying the mortgage', I calmly informed her that I was paying the mortgage (and did get enough money to do that). Since then she has been shocked that my kids have insurance because I often stress about money, and that is part of why but is very important. She has suggested I just get a loan for a car and I had to explain my foreclosure once again. Part of it is not being great with money, and the other part is she really and truly does not listen when people talk. She is 70 now, I have set some boundaries but I am also realistic about what to expect. I talk to my aunt now and then for my reality check in.
My kids are pretty great about this, yes they very much help! They all do things like cook from scratch and don't ask for super expensive things. They are so much better with money than their dad has ever been. It is just wearing on us all at times. Gotta say I love the grandparent gift of NetFlix! Gives a great entertainment value without worrying about money.
My favorite aunt used to say, "Consider the source." It's difficult to be psychically tangled up with someone who is a financial mess. You sound like you are making the best of it. I'm glad the kids are doing well. Netflix sounds like a nice treat! My mom never supported herself, so she doesn't know what things cost. She did an amazing job with the house, though. That made it easier for my father to play his role. It sounds like your mom doesn't have that awareness, either. Maybe she thought if you got more rest you would feel better. She probably felt bad that you were working so hard.
I don't know if you're interested in the Dave Ramsey work, but I found it life changing. With your discipline and focus, you would reach the goals very quickly.
ToomuchStuff
9-18-12, 2:47am
Gosh, ToomuchStuff, that seems kind of mean to me. I don't see how your situation, with a paid off house and no debt, is really a helpful comparison to what Zoegirl described here, and why you are judging her emotions so harshly.
But maybe I am missing the point; wouldn't be the first time, LOL.
Why would she want to put her ex-husband in jail for writing bad checks for child support?
Showing her that I have paid off everything, can also be motivation (you can do it). It is all in how one decides to take things. As for the ex husband, writing bad checks IS a crime. I would guess money issues did cause problems in their marriage, and I read resentment towards what he was buying. Yet her post, leads me to believe, he is buying things he can't afford. Being sentenced to bad check classes (you don't normally get prison time for the first offenses), sounds like it may get him straightened out with supporting the kids.
She may have just been venting, or she may be getting into self pity which can lead to depression or other issues, I don't know. I do know, sometimes tough love is called for, even when one doesn't want it.
rodeosweetheart
9-18-12, 7:20am
Being sentenced to bad check classes (you don't normally get prison time for the first offenses), sounds like it may get him straightened out with supporting the kids.
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Zoegirl, what about taking him to court now for the checks bouncing--not criminally, but in family court, so that they will garnish his wages? Or is he still out of a job? What about having him pay the checks directly to the court? That is another method people used to use for this problem back in our old state. He will NOT bounce checks to the court.
It's worth looking into, as you should have uninterrupted support checks, and there are usually enforcement offices that deal with just this problem. He is violating a court order when he does not pay you, obviously.
Vent away, Zoegirl. We all need to do that at times about all kinds of topics and this is a safe and understanding place to do so. Different viewpoints are not bad or good, just differing viewpoints that may help protect you in future contacts in real life by seeing another perspective from your words.
Had to laugh at the professor reporting on research when I listened to my course on Effective Communication - if we fully understand another's words, meaning, cultural context etc., it is a mistake. It is that hard to fully understand another.
I am in a similar circumstance, Zoe, and understand your experience, even though it is just me and my cat.
I never thought of the struggles as grief, although that is exactly what it is. Those people in my life who are impatient or who do not, or choose not, to understand are on their own.I simply have no energy or desire to deal with that.
I totally get the insurance stuff,, and all the rest, but I think the aspect that resonates the most for me is the poor thing. I do not have much and would really love to have greater financial resources, but I do not and just do my best to do my best. It, my resources and my efforts just have to be enough. Besides, I did absolutely nothing to bring myself and my life to this place.
Truth is that I spent my life doing the right things for the right reasons, so, maybe, I am where I am supposed to be for the time being. Perhaps that is a rationalization, but it feels right, and I am willing to work through this. My life prior to now was unbearable, so just about anything else is an improvement :I.
As for the bounced support checks, I have been through the exact same thing and I try to be understanding of those who try to be helpful but who do not had personal experience with this system and simply do not know how flawed it is and how ineffective it is. Zoe, they really cannot know how difficult, frustrating an energy-intensive it can be. Everything in its time.
thank you all, to clarify on the bounced checks he does make it up fairly quickly. It is realizing it on a Saturday after the bank closes that really makes for a rough few days. Since he pays me for them usually within a week or less I doubt he will get any consequences, and since he was laid off and now on contract work who knows if I would get the same amount, I do feel very proud that his bounced checks did not cause any bounced checks for me. However waiting to make sure they clear or going to his bank to get cash delays things and I have had a few late bills when i am trying to get my credit report back up after my foreclosure. I have spent a lot of time in the court system and things like this don't get fixed often. Basically I have my safety and i do get support, the legal advice I had wisely recommended to stop there. I have done the Ramsey style accounting and in the middle of this do have a significant emergency fund, however we could drain it in months depending on the emergency. So most of the time (and since I wrote that post) I feel good and competent and grateful. Other times I just want to stand on my own feet and not rely on support money, plus if he gets laid off again then there won't be money after all.
I was just venting, I know people worse off (I work to provide programming for after school services in high poverty areas). I just still get angry at times. It seems that people used to live like this financially in other eras. There was not the security that we started to rely on the last stretch of financial prosperity. In those times you had strong community ties and that was part of your support. Now we have little to no community and at least in my community I get messages like I heard from toomuch, I know you cannot tell my tone from an online post and I am sure you have validity to what you say. What was missing from my post was that (and I hate this because it really feels like ego) that I have never gotten a lump of money without sharing it. I donate time and money no matter how little I have. I am the one who shows up when you run out of gas or go to the hospital. Even with my family I do what i consider little things like call my grandmother to just let her talk once a month or think of others. I have owned a coffee maker for 20 years and never once drank coffee. I don't drink alcohol and yet I get wine when my parents are here. I don't really have an expectation of getting something out of it, and I stop when I may get resentful so I am no martyr. So I cannot count on the community as mutual support because if I needed it then I would likely get messages that are unrealistic. I feel like I am not really allowed to say that I believed and i worked hard and it still didn't work very well but could be worse (hey i didn't declare bankruptcy! and i handled student loans but I have not earned enough once in 5 years to be required to make a payment)
So it is better again, but I really can't be the only person who just loses it now and then.
So it is better again, but I really can't be the only perso and then.
Yep. Getting rid of all that is healthy, especially in a place like this. Mostly :)
awakenedsoul
9-19-12, 2:35pm
Maybe you are too generous. (?) Would you feel better putting all extra money into an emergency fund for now? It sounds like you are preparing to not have money from your ex. As you said, it might not be there. I feel the need for more padding now than I used to...I am generous with my parents, and I give a lot of produce away, but I don't spend any extra money on it. All extra money goes into savings. I buy gifts for my parents at Costco throughout the year. I also make them lemon bars, dog biscuits, knitted potholders and dishcloths, homemade soap, and I buy them things they like but can't get. (They don't have a Costco membership.) But, it's from my grocery budget and done a very little at a time.
I realized that I was giving to people who never gave back, (like a neighbor.) So, now I donate to on line forums and give to neighbors who I really like and with whom I feel a bond. I think your finances will get better. You've already done well and have fixed past mistakes. It takes time for the momentum to build.
I think it's pretty natural to vent. It's also natural to feel both grief and gratitude at the same time: grief because it's a difficult situation, and gratitude because you know it could be worse. Not having enough money is a big stressor, and everyone has a different level of what "enough" is in terms of feeling or not feeling stress about it. Some people might feel fine in your situation if they had a decent EF and were paying their bills on time for the most part. Other people would be way more stressed out because they couldn't see the positives that you've listed: being able to not bounce checks even when the ex's support bounced, keeping your job and insurance for the kids and coming up with fun and creative ways not to feel as poor as you might otherwise. So I think you're doing OK and you're pretty normal! Also, sometimes writing stuff out helps you sort out your feelings which in itself makes you feel better. Sometimes getting feedback makes you feel better, especially if it makes you feel less alone. An online community isn't quite the same as having IRL community, but then again revealing some stuff IRL might be a whole lot more awkward than online so that can be a plus too.
okay after a mere 3 hours this weekend, probably another 3+ a previous weekend I am making progress on balancing my checkbook and seeing where I have spent money (and can save money). The unfortunate thing is that I didn't have receipts for a lot so i am guessing on many things that could be different things like clothing or groceries at Target. Still the big ones are giving me a picture. After what our family has been through the last 4 months I guess I can be more positive, however I still struggle as well.
Now to get my job hours under some type of control so I don't spend my entire weekend just handling paper and housework, that is also not unusual huh
I totally understand the grief and gratitude thing. While I am happy to have found a job, I am feeling grief because I'm *still* nowhere near where I want to be financially. As someone else mentioned, at least I did not incur debt while I was unemployed for 3 years--BUT--I drained my emergency fund and now do not make enough to add to it. That's just one example. I still have haunting thoughts that I could have done something differently at my last job to "save" it (maybe, maybe part of it was just the bad economy), yet I know I wasn't happy there.
Zoe, I hope you are feeling better soon. I think it's good that you admitted how upset you felt. I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who's not "making it," who doesn't have financial support as I wish I had, and who feels like I'm swimming upstream.
frugalone, I understand your situation as well. I recall reading about how you got a job and then realized how far it would or would not go. so frustrating. I wrote down a few things that are positive to carry in my wallet at hard moments. I know I could be even stricter in some areas (doing the checkbook really showed a few things) so since my kids are great about eating I will focus on reducing our food waste a lot. Even if it means getting more canned and frozen vegetables but we do not waste that is good.
I am also haunted by those thoughts that i could have done something different or better. I see people all the time who I would not put that same judgment on however i am free to do that to myself.
So here is my coping tip when I realized that maybe I would live close to the edge for a very long time, or the rest of my life. I picked another thing in my life or two that did not really cost money and I could have my ambition in. For me it is meditation and creating (mostly crochet). It is kinda okay to be a broke meditator or artist for life rather than to just be pushing the edge all the time and nothing else to show for it.
Zoe Girl, I totally understand your sense of pride for surviving all this, on the one hand, and grief for what is lost and may not be, on the other. Sometimes we truly do try to 'take the high road' and do the right thing, with integrity, and life still strikes with unexpected challenges. Please know, as others have said, that you are not alone. You are not just venting, but speaking your truth and reflecting your current reality.
fidgiegirl
9-23-12, 10:41pm
So here is my coping tip when I realized that maybe I would live close to the edge for a very long time, or the rest of my life. I picked another thing in my life or two that did not really cost money and I could have my ambition in. For me it is meditation and creating (mostly crochet). It is kinda okay to be a broke meditator or artist for life rather than to just be pushing the edge all the time and nothing else to show for it.
Zoe, I love this idea. It really resonates with me right now, but I can't even put my finger on precisely why. Thank you for sharing this. This is why I love these forums.
Thanks, all of you!
Isn't it funny how we would never treat another person as harshly as we treat ourselves?
Gardenarian
9-24-12, 2:43pm
"I really can't be the only person who just loses it now and then."
No, you certainly are not! You have a hard road to hoe and I think you are doing great. Best of luck.
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