View Full Version : time to find a new pediatrician?
decemberlov
9-17-12, 11:24pm
Took my daughter in for a follow up since she was diagnosed with "croup" almost 2 weeks ago. She's had a really terrible croupy cough. 2 weeks ago when she was brought in i was told it was croup and she was sent home with prednisone (sp) its a steroid that goes in a nebulizer and is taken as a breathing treatment. We did this for a few days and i didn't see any results. I decided to stop giving it to her and instead have been giving her 2 tablespoons of local honey as well as colostrum in pill form (recommended by my mother) and have been seeing some improvement. Basically just a little coughing at night and in the morning but for the most part she is fine all day.
When we went for the follow up tonight i Told the dr i discontinued the meds and have been giving her honey instead. His new diagnosis is seasonal allergies and has prescribed an allergy medecine...i can't remember the name at the moment. I told him i thought that i too thought it may be allergies and that is why ive had results with the local honey ive been giving. He told Me he's never heard of that helping and its probably just a coincidence. Now I'm no dr but i thought it was pretty much proven that honey helps with allergies.
I hate giving my children medications and would much rather try a natural alternative when available but like i said I'm definitely not a dr either. I'm thinking of finding a pediatrician with a holistic approach. Does anyone have experience with this? Im hoping ill find someone with a more natural approach but one that will also prescribe medication but only when necessary.
iris lily
9-17-12, 11:32pm
My immediate response without Goggling anything is: Isn't it thought that some types of honey (they are wildly different) have some antihistamines?
Is it antihistamines you are after?
The honey cure seems pretty random to me, but it does seem to be worth investigation.
decemberlov
9-17-12, 11:51pm
Iris i heard this as well about the antihistamines. The Dr could absolutely be right about it being a coincidence buT i Truly believe between the honey and the colostrum it has done something to build her immune system and she definitely its doing better and seemed to have more relief. Or it could have done nothing and she just got better over time. I can't be sure. I guess maybe i wanted him to maybe know more than i did about weather its a myth or not lol. Instead her just looked at me like i was crazy :/
Local honey absolutely will help with seasonal allergies. I keep bees, and have given honey to co-workers with allergies. They all tell me that it works great!
try2bfrugal
9-18-12, 1:13am
In my experience most pediatricians are going to respond exactly like that - push pills and scoff at the mere thought that a natural treatment could ever work. It took some searching but we found a holistic pediatrician for our kids and it was worth the effort. We hung on to her until they were out of high school. It is too cool to have your pediatrician give you a list of Ayurvedic treatments to try instead of prescription drugs.
Once when she was off the substitute pediatrician gave my kid nose drops for a minor ailment that had blindness as a possible side effect. It is like they don't even read the side effects literature. Who would risk blindness to treat a minor respiratory illness? What kind of trade off is that, assuming the drops even worked, which I doubt they would have anyway.
If there are no other symptoms of seasonal allergies, I'd consider reflux as a cause of the night-time cough. I have to avoid meals too close to bedtime for my daughter, which can be difficult with young children who have early bedtimes. A single episode of reflux can, in my experience, cause coughing for up to 5 weeks. DD has had a sinus infection resulting from this in the past. And it is difficult to diagnose; really, only an ENT can tell from a visible symptom, the irritation on the lower throat.
If you otherwise like your pediatrician and he/she has convenient hours and location, I personally wouldn't switch, because integrative MDs are difficult to find, and when you have a young child, it's really helpful to have long office hours and a nearby doctor. But if this is just one more in a list of annoyances, I'd look around. We switched peds several times when DD was younger, and are now in an office that I like... the peds are generally willing to have a discussion about options, including non-prescription ones. Now that DD is older, though, we rarely go there other than annual physical. I'd say our office visits really fell off a cliff after age 6.
I am guessing that the cough is simply clearing up on its own and that the improvement that has occurred while giving honey is mainly a coincidence. We've tried honey for coughs and have not found it terribly effective. As I understand it, the idea behind honey for seasonal allergies is not that it is an instant cure, but akin to immunotherapy (allergy shots) where exposure to allergens has to build up over time.
decemberlov
9-18-12, 9:36am
How old is your DD?
My little one that I took in last night will be 10 in October. My older daughter is 13. Speaking of my older daughter, when I took her in for her 12 yr. check up they wanted me to give her the HPV vaccine, I've done a lot of research prior to and opted to not give it to her. The Dr. on staff made it out like I didn't care about my daughter's health and told me maybe I should reconsider and that she would give it to her daughter. This really rubbed me the wrong way...
In my experience most pediatricians are going to respond exactly like that - push pills and scoff at the mere thought that a natural treatment could ever work. It took some searching but we found a holistic pediatrician for our kids and it was worth the effort. We hung on to her until they were out of high school. It is too cool to have your pediatrician give you a list of Ayurvedic treatments to try instead of prescription drugs.
Once when she was off the substitute pediatrician gave my kid nose drops for a minor ailment that had blindness as a possible side effect. It is like they don't even read the side effects literature. Who would risk blindness to treat a minor respiratory illness? What kind of trade off is that, assuming the drops even worked, which I doubt they would have anyway.
try2bfrugal - In my gut, I really believe this is the way to go. Plus this is not the first issue I've had with them that made me uncomfortable. Most of the Drs there seem to almost not take me seriously with most of my concerns, maybe because I'm a young mom? Or maybe that's just my own insecurity and they're that way with most people.
Local honey absolutely will help with seasonal allergies. I keep bees, and have given honey to co-workers with allergies. They all tell me that it works great!
good to know! I'm guessing this is something that I should keep going year around?
Trust your own instincts as a mother. It has been two decades since I had one your age, but even back then I was a fan of Mothering magazine for all things health-related. They were considered very alternative back then but aligned with my beliefs then and now.
Just the other day, I went with my husband to the doctor's office to have his dizzy spell checked out. There were more drug sales reps going in to see the doctor than patients. Something about that stinks.
try2bfrugal
9-18-12, 10:36am
try2bfrugal - In my gut, I really believe this is the way to go. Plus this is not the first issue I've had with them that made me uncomfortable. Most of the Drs there seem to almost not take me seriously with most of my concerns, maybe because I'm a young mom? Or maybe that's just my own insecurity and they're that way with most people.
No, that is just the way it works. I have a few holistic web sites, have probably received close to 10K emails over the years from readers and the doctor interaction stories are almost always the same experience as yours. These emails are from people of all ages and not even just the U.S. I get emails from people in India desperate for more Ayurveda information, which is really sad.
People will write me that they tried a nutritional cure for condition xyz for themselves or their kid, and for the first time in years there has been a recovery. Sometimes condition xyz can be linked to a nutritional deficiency in well over a 100 mainstream medical textbooks or research studies the parents can even look up online and often print out to take to the doctor. And even then more that 9 times out of 10 the doctors will tell the parents it is a sheer coincidence that the recovery came after turning to food or herbs, and the parents are daft to even begin to think they might have stumbled upon a cure the doctor knows nothing about. They are told to not believe anything they read on the Internet.
I can't once think of a patient who wrote to me that her doctor was really excited to hear about the recovery and wanted more information so he could share it with his colleagues and other patients. The system just isn't designed to get patient feedback. It is a one way flow of information from doctor to patient.
My observation is that it's not easy to find a doctor who isn't some combination of arrogant, patronizing, incurious, and mediocre. Listening to friends' stories, I'm convinced most medicos couldn't diagnose a compound fracture. And if you don't agree with their by-the-book pharmaceutical approach to ailments, you're "non-compliant." There certainly are some gems amongst the dross, but it's a real treasure hunt trying to find one.
One way to start looking for a new Dr is to look for one with a D.O. instead of M.D., they (if taught from one of the old D.O. schools - Kirksville, MO is the origional D.O. school) tend to me more holistic and look to other ways of healing before reaching for the RX pad.
I always look for a D.O.
I don't want an RX unless absolutely necessary.
decemberlov
9-18-12, 10:56am
No, that is just the way it works. I have a few holistic web sites, have probably received close to 10K emails over the years from readers and the doctor interaction stories are almost always the same experience as yours. These emails are from people of all ages and not even just the U.S. I get emails from people in India desperate for more Ayurveda information, which is really sad.
People will write me that they tried a nutritional cure for condition xyz for themselves or their kid, and for the first time in years there has been a recovery. Sometimes condition xyz can be linked to a nutritional deficiency in well over a 100 mainstream medical textbooks or research studies the parents can even look up online and often print out to take to the doctor. And even then more that 9 times out of 10 the doctors will tell the parents it is a sheer coincidence that the recovery came after turning to food or herbs, and the parents are daft to even begin to think they might have stumbled upon a cure the doctor knows nothing about. They are told to not believe anything they read on the Internet.
I can't once think of a patient who wrote to me that her doctor was really excited to hear about the recovery and wanted more information so he could share it with his colleagues and other patients. The system just isn't designed to get patient feedback. It is a one way flow of information from doctor to patient.
Have you seen the documentary: Ayurveda, The Art of Being? It's free if you can stream it on netflix. My daughter and I watched it last week. I thought, how great would it be to find someone here in NJ that is knowledgeable about Ayurveda!
It's a shame and I just hope to find a place that is more open to natural things rather that being brain washed by the pharmaceutical companies.
decemberlov
9-18-12, 10:59am
My observation is that it's not easy to find a doctor who isn't some combination of arrogant, patronizing, incurious, and mediocre. Listening to friends' stories, I'm convinced most medicos couldn't diagnose a compound fracture. And if you don't agree with their by-the-book pharmaceutical approach to ailments, you're "non-compliant." There certainly are some gems amongst the dross, but it's a real treasure hunt trying to find one.
looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me :(
One way to start looking for a new Dr is to look for one with a D.O. instead of M.D., they (if taught from one of the old D.O. schools - Kirksville, MO is the origional D.O. school) tend to me more holistic and look to other ways of healing before reaching for the RX pad.
I always look for a D.O.
I don't want an RX unless absolutely necessary.
Thanks for the info Float On!
try2bfrugal
9-18-12, 11:22am
Have you seen the documentary: Ayurveda, The Art of Being? It's free if you can stream it on netflix. My daughter and I watched it last week. I thought, how great would it be to find someone here in NJ that is knowledgeable about Ayurveda!
It's a shame and I just hope to find a place that is more open to natural things rather that being brain washed by the pharmaceutical companies.
I probably have either watched it or have it in my queue as I try to watch everything I can find on Netflix on topics like yoga, Ayuveda, Chinese medicine and holistic health.
I never had a pediatrician, just used our family D.O. on the rare occassions someone was bad enough to see a Dr. Never bought into all those well-baby check-ups.
Also I can't quite remember what age but I remember that babies can't digest honey. I think I waited till they were probably 3 or so to start giving them some local honey daily.
I grew up on a farm with bees and never had seasonal allergies until I moved away and took that same honey with me. It was really a difficult choice to tell my parents to quit bringing me honey from home because I needed something more local to fight my local allergies.
decemberlov
9-18-12, 11:57am
I never had a pediatrician, just used our family D.O. on the rare occassions someone was bad enough to see a Dr. Never bought into all those well-baby check-ups.
Also I can't quite remember what age but I remember that babies can't digest honey. I think I waited till they were probably 3 or so to start giving them some local honey daily.
I grew up on a farm with bees and never had seasonal allergies until I moved away and took that same honey with me. It was really a difficult choice to tell my parents to quit bringing me honey from home because I needed something more local to fight my local allergies.
we did all the well baby check ups but after I'd say 5 or 6 maybe I had to deal with them harassing me to bring the kids in to get their well check ups. We're not the type to constantly go to the dr and probably wouldn't have if this cough wasn't so persistent. My co pay is $30 so I've spent $60 in the past 2 week just to get a "guess" from the drs what it might be. No tests or definite answers. I had the same thing happen last night that I've gotten before. "You have to make a visit for a well check up or we will stop seeing them. We can't just see them when they're sick". I hate when they tell me this... Not that I don't care about my children it's just that they're healthy, eat well, take their vitamins and generally don't get sick that often. Some would disagree I'm sure though and tell me I'm not doing my job as a parent >8)
decemberlov,
I vote for getting a new doc. But I fear that most pediatricians will give you the same advice. In my experience, very few "regular" docs know anything about natural healing stuff.
And I definitely wouldn't get the HPV virus vaccine for my daughter (when she was young......she's 25 now).........and I'm still not sure I would encourage her to have it now. New vaccines I think are fairly scary.
But definitely time to change pediatricians. Good luck!
decemberlov
9-18-12, 12:17pm
Thanks you CathyA! I think you're right! I'll be doing my research and making some calls :)
San Onofre Guy
9-18-12, 12:34pm
Allergy problems in young children have a strong correlation to the ingestion of cows milk and milk products. Cut out dairy and possibly meat and your child will be healthier.
I have had allergies since age 10. I seldom have allergy issues any longer, nor colds and I attribute that to limiting my dairy intake which primarily now is only cheese and the occasional ice cream.
decemberlov
9-18-12, 12:37pm
Allergy problems in young children have a strong correlation to the ingestion of cows milk and milk products. Cut out dairy and possibly meat and your child will be healthier.
I have had allergies since age 10. I seldom have allergy issues any longer, nor colds and I attribute that to limiting my dairy intake which primarily now is only cheese and the occasional ice cream.
do you know if this stands true for organic milk as well? I'm assuming so. We don't drink anything but organic milk but she definitely drinks a lot of milk, she loves milk!! Meat, not so much.
we did all the well baby check ups but after I'd say 5 or 6 maybe I had to deal with them harassing me to bring the kids in to get their well check ups. We're not the type to constantly go to the dr and probably wouldn't have if this cough wasn't so persistent. My co pay is $30 so I've spent $60 in the past 2 week just to get a "guess" from the drs what it might be. No tests or definite answers. I had the same thing happen last night that I've gotten before. "You have to make a visit for a well check up or we will stop seeing them. We can't just see them when they're sick". I hate when they tell me this... Not that I don't care about my children it's just that they're healthy, eat well, take their vitamins and generally don't get sick that often. Some would disagree I'm sure though and tell me I'm not doing my job as a parent >8)
OMG. I'm a firm believer in going to the doctor when you're sick. Maybe a checkup every few years.The chances of a child having some kind of serious asymptomatic problem are infinitesimal. This brings up the "number needed to treat" where modern medical wisdom thinks it's OK to dose hundreds of thousands of patients with potentially harmful drugs on the chance that one of them will be saved from some adverse event. Gotta love corporate medicine.
Didn't read all the responses, but thought I'd weigh in. There is pollen in honey if it isn't filtered too much, and consuming it can certainly help with allergies, as far as I know. My husband keeps bees.
As for your doctor, it is quite common for them to not understand a natural or holistic approach. They are trained to diagnose and then medicate. You might want to find one that is more "okay" with your approach, though it's doubtful you'll find someone who is totally on board. Our ped. is pretty good, and we got her name from other like-minded parents. She allows us to follow our delayed/selective vax schedule and never counters our decisions. She once questioned my solid food intro method (baby led weaning) but in her defense I didn't really explain it well. Maybe look for an osteopathic dr?
San Onofre Guy
9-19-12, 2:18pm
Organic milk still comes from cows. Cows milk is great for cows, but not so great for humans
My little one that I took in last night will be 10 in October. My older daughter is 13. Speaking of my older daughter, when I took her in for her 12 yr. check up they wanted me to give her the HPV vaccine, I've done a lot of research prior to and opted to not give it to her. The Dr. on staff made it out like I didn't care about my daughter's health and told me maybe I should reconsider and that she would give it to her daughter. This really rubbed me the wrong way...
try2bfrugal - In my gut, I really believe this is the way to go. Plus this is not the first issue I've had with them that made me uncomfortable. Most of the Drs there seem to almost not take me seriously with most of my concerns, maybe because I'm a young mom? Or maybe that's just my own insecurity and they're that way with most people.
good to know! I'm guessing this is something that I should keep going year around?
Yes, a few tablespoons per day; one in the morning and one in the evening. Try to find a beekeeper with treatment-free hives (chemical free).
Local honey absolutely will help with seasonal allergies. I keep bees, and have given honey to co-workers with allergies. They all tell me that it works great!
There is a place that DH and I got some honey from Snoqualmie Valley Honey Farm in North Bend.... is that you? OMG Love it I could eat an entire jar all by myself in one sitting LOL
fidgiegirl
9-20-12, 7:49am
You know, aside from the honey and milk questions, I think you trust your gut. At least I'm working hard on that lately for myself in my own life. You don't need any reasons or justifications. If you don't like the MD, you are allowed to - and should - find the one you want. His/her feelings won't be hurt. There are plenty of patients for everyone.
I have to interject that it would be nice if DO's were holistic..............and maybe lots of them are. But my OB/GYN (who I love and respect), is a DO and she's just like all the other M.D.s as far as her being holistic. I was fairly disappointed in that respect.
I also went to a holistic doc in the past who was an Internal medicine doc.........and he essentially did hocus pocus over me. Again, very disappointing. Unfortunately sometimes you have to just keep looking until you find someone who is tolerable.
I think it used to be that docs were docs because they wanted to help people. Now they are businessmen for the most part. And I would say 99% of them aren't able to connect one system in the body with another, which is truly unfortunate.
I have to interject that it would be nice if DO's were holistic..............and maybe lots of them are. But my OB/GYN (who I love and respect), is a DO and she's just like all the other M.D.s as far as her being holistic. I was fairly disappointed in that respect.
I also went to a holistic doc in the past who was an Internal medicine doc.........and he essentially did hocus pocus over me. Again, very disappointing. Unfortunately sometimes you have to just keep looking until you find someone who is tolerable.
I think it used to be that docs were docs because they wanted to help people. Now they are businessmen for the most part. And I would say 99% of them aren't able to connect one system in the body with another, which is truly unfortunate.
Well said by someone in a position to know. The more I see of what passes for health care these days, the less I want anything to do with it.
decemberlov
9-20-12, 10:46am
You know, aside from the honey and milk questions, I think you trust your gut. At least I'm working hard on that lately for myself in my own life. You don't need any reasons or justifications. If you don't like the MD, you are allowed to - and should - find the one you want. His/her feelings won't be hurt. There are plenty of patients for everyone.
thank you Kelli...sometimes I guess I just need a little reassurance.
I will be looking this weekend and will hopefully find someone fairly close.
Well said by someone in a position to know. The more I see of what passes for health care these days, the less I want anything to do with it.
same here :(
Giving you pressure about the well-child exams is not professional behavior in my opinion. I suspect that pediatric offices earn a fair amount of their income from these exams (from insurance payments). Several years ago, the standard suggested by the AAP was every-other year after, if I recall correctly, age 5 - but now it has been increased to annually. We do take our DD approximately annually but I don't stress about the timing or missing months or a year.
decemberlov
9-21-12, 10:20am
Giving you pressure about the well-child exams is not professional behavior in my opinion. I suspect that pediatric offices earn a fair amount of their income from these exams (from insurance payments). Several years ago, the standard suggested by the AAP was every-other year after, if I recall correctly, age 5 - but now it has been increased to annually. We do take our DD approximately annually but I don't stress about the timing or missing months or a year.
I agree. And I believe that is exactly what it's about. Money. I can see maybe even every 6 months or once a year if there is something in the health history that you are keeping an eye on. However my children are fairly health, eat properly and take vitamins. Doctors are our last resort, usually.
I didn't want to come off as if I never take them when they are sick (as it may have appeared from a previous post). I just don't see the need to go for a fairly obvious common cold. I don't need to pay a Dr. $30 to tell me to keep the fluids coming and let it run it's course. I also don't need to pay them to tell me my children are healthy.
I'm big fan of family practice doctors. You can find one who is an M.D. or a D.O. In my state the degrees are considered to be equivalent and they're licensed by the same medical board and held to the same practice standards. Anyway, I like the fact that I have a well-trained medical professional attending me who has some understanding of family care in a "wholistic" sense, and can treat me for most anything, referring out when necessary, and can be my doctor from "cradle to grave" as they say. I just think family practice doctors have a whole lot of good common sense.
decemberlov
10-4-12, 10:03am
Thought I'd update everyone. I have found a new pediatrician for the girls!
After quite a bit of research I have found someone that I think will be a much better fit for us.
I have looked at his website and I really like everything I see there. This is his mission statement:
"At KidsWell, we have an integrative approach to pediatrics, bringing together the best of conventional medicine and alternative therapies, treating each child as a whole person."
I really think this encompasses what we are looking for. Also strangely enough while browsing his site I found this as one of his tips:
Honey is not just for sweetening! In head to head studies comparing buckwheat honey to dextromethorphan (the cough suppressant in most over the counter cough remedies), parents reported considerably less coughing in the kids who were given honey. Honey has antibiotic properties that have been known for thousands of years, and modern pharmaceutical companies are currently developing bandages and wound dressings that contain honey to prevent and treat infections. Some people even believe that honey (made locally, by local bees using local plants) can be used to treat hay fever! One thing's for sure, the more we learn about honey, the more uses we're likely to find for it.
I found it pretty coincidental and almost took it as a sign that this is where we need to go.
They are further than our other Dr. being almost a 1/2 hr away but they are open until 9pm 3 nights a week and have Saturday & Sunday appts as well.
The extended hrs help with it being further but I think it will definitely be worth it! They were also incredibly helpful and nice on the phone.
They also informed me that they are in the same "advocare network" as the old Dr. and that it shouldn't cost any money to transfer the records and to be aware of this so they don't try and get one over on me.
I'm excited to hopefully find someone with a better (in my opinion) approach to wellness :)
I'm big fan of family practice doctors. You can find one who is an M.D. or a D.O.
Just my experience but I have been to see 2 D.O.s in my life and both times came away very dissatisfied with the quality of care.
My landlord for several years was a D.O. He acknowledged that went to Osteopath School only after spending two years applying to and being rejected from dozens of medical schools (including several overseas). He told me that he had never met a DO who didn't first try to become a M.D. but couldn't rise to the standards for admission (let alone completion). He was a very nice caring man, and apparently most of his patients loved him because of his bedside manner.
But for me I would much rather have a rat bastard who knows their stuff then a kindly, patient Dr. who didn't have what it took to get into even a low rated medical school.
I am also regularly surprised by how many of my acquaintances hire professionals based primarily upon their social skills instead of their reputations for expertise or competence.
My mother still tells the story of complaining to my great uncle who was chief of staff at a local hospital and had recommended that she take my sister and me to a pediatrician with a (justified) reputation for impatience and arrogance. Several years in, when she complained to her uncle about how abruptly my pediatrician would speak to her my great uncle told her " If you asked me to refer you to a new friend he would have been the last on my list but he's the best pediatrician in North Jersey and I wouldn't want any of the kids in my family going to anyone else. If you like I have a long, long list of much nicer doctors who are far less competent"
Both my sister and I stayed with that Doctor until we left for college.
iris lily
10-4-12, 11:09am
...
But for me I would much rather have a rat bastard who knows their stuff then a kindly, patient Dr. who didn't have what it took to get into even a low rated medical school.
...
When I go to the board certified veterinary specialists, that's what I'm looking for. Let their vet techs and other staff be the kind caretakers.
I don't need Doctor Cuddles (far from it), but I do need someone who acknowledges that I'm an intelligent adult capable of thinking for myself, that it's my body and that I get the last word.
Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid the medical establishment altogether for as long as possible.
decemberlov
10-4-12, 12:13pm
I don't need Doctor Cuddles (far from it), but I do need someone who acknowledges that I'm an intelligent adult capable of thinking for myself, that it's my body and that I get the last word.
Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid the medical establishment altogether for as long as possible.
Same here!
However, this is easier said than done when you have children, unfortunately.
I don't need Doctor Cuddles (far from it), but I do need someone who acknowledges that I'm an intelligent adult capable of thinking for myself, that it's my body and that I get the last word.
.
Wow. Where are you getting these doctors?
I've never had even the most arrogant of doctors convey that they don't think I'm an intelligent adult, or that it's not my body and that I can't get the last word. I have had some who were not exactly diplomatic about the fact that they knew a hell of a lot more about medicine than I did. I didn't like it and it hurt my ego..... but the fact is that they were right.
Wow. Where are you getting these doctors?
I've never had even the most arrogant of doctors convey that they don't think I'm an intelligent adult, or that it's not my body and that I can't get the last word. I have had some who were not exactly diplomatic about the fact that they knew a hell of a lot more about medicine than I did. I didn't like it and it hurt my ego..... but the fact is that they were right.
Apparently you've been lucky. I expect doctors know lots about medicine because Pharma reps are on them all the time like white on rice. I'd prefer one with diagnostic skills who focused on health and how to promote it without relying on prescribe-by-number rote treatments.
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