View Full Version : Voter harassement
Circa 2012. NYT editorial. Makes me ill.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/opinion/voter-harassment-circa-2012.html?_r=1
http://www.letmypeoplevote2012.com/
I think the big stories after the election will be disenfranchised voters. And the lines at the polls - I expect all that id checking is going take a lot of time and manpower.
I think the big stories after the election will be disenfranchised voters. And the lines at the polls - I expect all that id checking is going take a lot of time and manpower.
In my state everyone shows ID anyway, that is not new.
Circa 2012. NYT editorial. Makes me ill.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/opinion/voter-harassment-circa-2012.html?_r=1
http://www.letmypeoplevote2012.com/
I forgive Sarah for making this preachy video. It has its funny moments, she is a funny girl. And there is nothing wrong with students getting gun permits.
In my state everyone shows ID anyway, that is not new.
It probably won't be much of an issue there, then. For states where it's new, though, it's likely to be a bit painful.
Our elections are all mail-in ballots. I miss the polls.
Our elections are all mail-in ballots. I miss the polls.
I agree Redfox, it was so much more civic and tradition-filled to walk over to the Olga Energetic Club and cast my vote, after passing the gauntlet of all the little old ladies running the polls. They'd have caught any voter fraud in an instant with their grandma-like superpowers, and I never had any concerns about the process or the security of the balloting system.
Since we switched to vote-by-mail here, with *unique identifiers on each ballot linking them to a specific voter*(!!!!), we've had quite a bit of concern over the process.
ToomuchStuff
9-23-12, 1:13am
It probably won't be much of an issue there, then. For states where it's new, though, it's likely to be a bit painful.
Isn't anything new, typically painful while they work bugs out of the system? At least that has been my experience.
And I have had to show ID, the entire time I have voted (decades), they even send out voter id cards.
Well, I don't think the real issue is having to show ID as I think most states have had this in place. Show your ID, or voter registration card to vote. I think the real problem is, and where the disenfranchising comes into play is that some states, the ones republican controlled and trying to suppress votes, are changing the rules about ID. They are disallowing student ID's or other ID's that have been accepted in the past, which is forcing people to go and get ANOTHER picture ID which costs money and time. These states are generally not setting up a separate station for 'vote worthy' ID's but making everyone stand in line with those getting/renewing driver's license, etc...Those cattle calls are a nightmare, as you all know, and adding this extra load to an already loaded que is causing delays of hours! And so many of these places are only open half days on sat and not at all on Sunday. People can't always take off work for that much time, and really, it isn't necessary. THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD so forcing this added layer is making it harder to vote. For everyone! And then restricting voter times, when in past elections they were expanding to include everyone. (but hey, gun registration ID's are allowed...surprised? I'm sure they tried to figure out a way to let prayer cards count!)
You know, republicans can yada yada yada all they want but the people know what is happening. They know what the republicans are trying to do. When the 'small government' party spends millions to 'fix' a problem that doesn't exist, we all know what their problem is. Their problem is that in a fair, and open election, straight up, they lose. They can't sell their message, so they try trickery, and slight of hand to win.
I hope all these transparent efforts to keep the poor and elderly and students from voting result in solid get out the vote efforts and even more determination among those groups to make their votes count.
There is something all civic-minded and satisfying about voting at the polls, with the smell of coffee and rain-soaked voters and all, but I don't mind mail-in ballots, and at least we don't have to deal with too-long lines, voter intimidation, or voting machine shenanigans.
ToomuchStuff
9-24-12, 1:12am
Well, I don't think the real issue is having to show ID as I think most states have had this in place. Show your ID, or voter registration card to vote. I think the real problem is, and where the disenfranchising comes into play is that some states, the ones republican controlled and trying to suppress votes, are changing the rules about ID. They are disallowing student ID's or other ID's that have been accepted in the past, which is forcing people to go and get ANOTHER picture ID which costs money and time. These states are generally not setting up a separate station for 'vote worthy' ID's but making everyone stand in line with those getting/renewing driver's license, etc...Those cattle calls are a nightmare, as you all know, and adding this extra load to an already loaded que is causing delays of hours! And so many of these places are only open half days on sat and not at all on Sunday. People can't always take off work for that much time, and really, it isn't necessary. THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD so forcing this added layer is making it harder to vote. For everyone! And then restricting voter times, when in past elections they were expanding to include everyone. (but hey, gun registration ID's are allowed...surprised? I'm sure they tried to figure out a way to let prayer cards count!)
You know, republicans can yada yada yada all they want but the people know what is happening. They know what the republicans are trying to do. When the 'small government' party spends millions to 'fix' a problem that doesn't exist, we all know what their problem is. Their problem is that in a fair, and open election, straight up, they lose. They can't sell their message, so they try trickery, and slight of hand to win.
It is all the republicans fault, eh? Both parties play games, and both parties lie and tell half truths. You might want to get out of that mindset that it is only one sides fault.
Now, legal ID, is legal ID. You can have an id that is perfectly valid for one thing, and isn't for another, nothing new. Selling liquor in my state, requires that you only sell to adults. You are NOT required to ask for id, but if/when you do, you are ONLY allowed to accept certain things and those are in a booklet that you can get from alcohol control locally. (has pictures and facts about security features from the other states drivers licenses). I am NOT allowed to take other id cards, and to show a point, I had to turn down a sale to someone showing a KCPD id. They said they were a police officer, but you can work in their maintenance dept at 18 and get the id.
Now, I do constantly how people hate lawyers, yet how many of our politicians are and also have ones on their staff, to bring up every little technicality (what a lawyer is supposed to do), etc?
ApatheticNoMore
9-24-12, 3:16am
Ballots are still paper here, even if they are electronically counted, it's punches unless it's changed and I don't think so. And you go into a poll to vote. I think it's fine. It's not a contested state, it's solidly blue, they only come here to grab wads of cash and don't bother with the people at all, don't give speeches or meet or even PRETEND they actually care about us rather than the plutocrats from which they are grabbing money. But the plus side of this is at least they mostly leave us alone as far as our voting in concerned, and so therefore I'm fairly confident our polls are legit (unless they start with the ID stuff), and thus our state and local and congressional and initiatives are legitimate. Fine, a devils bargain, but I'll take it.
It is all the republicans fault, eh? Both parties play games, and both parties lie and tell half truths. You might want to get out of that mindset that it is only one sides fault.
Now, legal ID, is legal ID. You can have an id that is perfectly valid for one thing, and isn't for another, nothing new. Selling liquor in my state, requires that you only sell to adults. You are NOT required to ask for id, but if/when you do, you are ONLY allowed to accept certain things and those are in a booklet that you can get from alcohol control locally. (has pictures and facts about security features from the other states drivers licenses). I am NOT allowed to take other id cards, and to show a point, I had to turn down a sale to someone showing a KCPD id. They said they were a police officer, but you can work in their maintenance dept at 18 and get the id.
Now, I do constantly how people hate lawyers, yet how many of our politicians are and also have ones on their staff, to bring up every little technicality (what a lawyer is supposed to do), etc?
With this voter suppression, yes, it IS all the republicans fault, and voter suppression is what this thread is about. It is only republican who are throwing up all these voter ID roadblocks, and republicans who are trying to limit voting times where in the past the times were being expanded to include, and make it easy to vote for eveyone. So, yes, this is entirely republican driven. And, unless you think there isn't an adgenda, here you go...
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/karoli/shameless-republican-brags-about-voter-id-w
There is no voter fraud. That is a myth/misconception/lie. Let me repeat, cause this part is important. THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD. There is no 'problem' to fix.
People have been voting in this country since this country began, and up until some republicans got this bright idea to suppress the vote, many forms of ID were accepted. Student ID's, veterans cards, SS, simply your voter registration card, etc...all legal and acceptable. (Remember, there isn't any voter fraud..not a widespread problem)
Voting is different than buying alcohol. Alcohol is a controlled substance. Voting isn't, or shouldn't be. Buying alcohol is a privilege, voting is a constitutional right, written right in that grand 'ol document the tea baggers keep waving about. Actually, I shouldn't blame the tea party as I'm thinking they find voter suppression pretty repugnant, even if it gets their guy elected. At least I would think the average one would. If they have been lead to believe that there is a problem of voter fraud, well, shame on the ones doing the manipulating, i.e. republicans. And shame on the ones being manipulated for not seeking the truth.
People do show ID when they vote. But suddenly their ID isn't valid. That's the problem.
And they are targeting students specifically.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/22/voter-id-laws-gop-college-student_n_1791568.html
They are disallowing out of state drivers license, which of course students have, and can use to do virtually everything else except vote. How is this not targeting students? And they are disallowing dorm lists, which they used in the past to verify residency for these students, and they are disallowing corroboration from a resident as proof of residency, which was allowed in the past. Tell me this isn't voter suppression! Want more? Here is the leader of the state house in NH (caught on tape) explaining why he wanted to actually completely disallow any out of state student from voting, period. Fortunately he was unable to pass this legislation, but just barely.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/03/video-foolish-college-kids-jus.html
All these road blocks are designed for one thing. Suppress the vote. And they target young, new, or un-savvy voters. There are so many laws and they are so convoluted many of these unaware voters will get to the polls and be unable to vote because they lack one hoop or another they must jump through.
THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD. There is NO problem to fix, except the republicans inability to win by their message/record alone.
Voting is different than buying alcohol. Alcohol is a controlled substance. Voting isn't, or shouldn't be. Buying alcohol is a privilege, voting is a constitutional right, written right in that grand 'ol document the tea baggers keep waving about.
You're right, there is a difference. Buying/owning a gun, however, is also a right guaranteed by the constitution. Are you suggesting I shouldn't have to show an ID to purchase one? At this time I do and only certain government issued forms are acceptable. Shouldn't we be up in arms, so to speak, because the college student who doesn't have a drivers license can't stop in and buy a Glock after they vote?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/21/voter-id-laws-stink-says-_n_1904322.html
"But according to reports, only a scant number of those non-driver's license IDs have been issued. There is concern that the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, or PennDot, which is responsible for providing the IDs, can't handle the demand with so little time before the November elections."
"But recent data suggests that 9.2 percent of Pennsylvanians currently don't have the required photo ID to vote, amounting to a whopping 758,000 voters who could be barred from voting. In Philadelphia, according to a recent report by The Philadelphia Inquirer, 18 percent of the city's registered voters, or 186,830 individuals, do not have proper ID to vote."
"Nine Pennsylvania counties, she said, many of them rural, don't have a PennDot center at all. Thirteen counties have PennDot centers that are open one day a week. In Scranton, one of the state's larger cities, the PennDot center is open only 3 days a week, which can be a burden on many of the working-class city's blue-collar workers."
"Getting to the proper location is only half the battle that many face. To obtain a voter ID card, applicants have to present a Social Security card, a birth certificate with a raised seal and two separate proofs of residence."
Don't tell me Republicans aren't trying to suppress the vote. There IS NO PROBLEM of voter fraud. This is a blatant attempt to suppress the vote. The very party that likes to wrap itself in the flag and wave the constitution is trying to suppress the rights granted in that document. The only way this 'god fearing constitution loving' party can win is by..wait for it..suppressing the constitutional rights of We the People. And anyone who votes republican in these states that are doing this trickery is absolutely as guilty of suppression as the republican legislators who are enacting these onerous roadblocks.
You're right, there is a difference. Buying/owning a gun, however, is also a right guaranteed by the constitution. Are you suggesting I shouldn't have to show an ID to purchase one? At this time I do and only certain government issued forms are acceptable. Shouldn't we be up in arms, so to speak, because the college student who doesn't have a drivers license can't stop in and buy a Glock after they vote?
Well Gregg, the day a student can walk into a theatre and kill 15 people with his vote, I'll agree with you. People killing people with guns IS a problem. VOTER FRAUD IS NOT!
http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/08/cases-voter-id-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm
Hmm...11,493 gun deaths per year. Let's see, a Boeing 747 can hold 524 passengers, and that's kind of stuffing them in. So, the number of gun deaths in the US is roughly like a Boeing 747 crashing every 2 1/2 weeks, all year long.
Actually, trying to compare buying a gun, and the related dangers to ALL OF US, to someone just trying to vote is pretty weak, and really ridiculous. And hey, maybe they (the states trying to suppress the vote) should just set up 'voting shows' where anyone can simply waltz in and vote, over and over and over. Or how about letting someone 'sell' his vote in a private transaction, which is never recorded or traced or really of any concern? It's all good!
And how many people are killed when the vote is used to elect a leader who gets us in and/or keeps us in a war? If a vote were not that powerful there would be no reason to passionately defend someone's right to cast it, would there? In the bigger picture, should we really be picking and choosing which constitutional rights to defend and which to let go?
The crazy voting scenarios you describe have already taken place...in Mr. Obama's hometown in fact. Maybe they are still, maybe not, I don't live there so don't know. I do know that simply showing an ID to vote takes a lot of that off the table. I had to show an ID to vote here in my first election in 1980. My aunt checked my name off the list. We've had governors and reps from both parties in the mean time and that policy hasn't changed. Maybe we just need a consistent national policy. What should that be?
Maybe we just need a consistent national policy. What should that be?
We do have a consistent national policy. It's that the states get to decide how they run their elections, with the fairly recent caveat that their policies cannot be discriminatory.
But of course, the feds make every effort to control the process using whatever means are at their disposal, such as the Justice Department's on-going efforts to decide for states when polls should be open and declaring in some jurisdictions that failure to put a candidate's party affiliation on the ballot is discriminatory.
An interesting point about party affiliations on the ballot Alan. I'm inclined to totally eliminate that practice. No mention of party affiliation anywhere on a ballot at all. What purpose does it serve except to further promote the two major parties and allow voters on either side to simply vote the 'party line' all the way down whether they know anything about the candidates or not? That type of voting is exercising a right without accepting any of the responsibility that goes along with it so is it wrong to make it a little less simple to do? Oops, I said the "r" word, my bad. Anyway, it might at least encourage voters to put a little more thought into the process. Of course I can just hear the complaining now. "Huge blocks of no-access-to-information voters would be disenfranchised..." No worries, I'm sure both parties would have plenty of cheat sheets readily available at the polls.
Of course I can just hear the complaining now. "Huge blocks of no-access-to-information voters would be disenfranchised..." No worries, I'm sure both parties would have plenty of cheat sheets readily available at the polls.
That's pretty much Eric Holder's complaint in a nutshell: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/20/justice-dept-blocks-ncs-nonpartisan-vote/
ApatheticNoMore
9-24-12, 12:44pm
And how many people are killed when the vote is used to elect a leader who gets us in and/or keeps us in a war?
They've already rigged that game. People actually voted for Obama as an anti-war candidate (even though he said early on he would escalate Afghanistan - which was a red flag before he was even elected for me), military involvement escaltes, but can anyone resonably claim McCain bomb bomb Iran would have been any better? Can anyone really know Romney will be, with his increasing militant talk or cosying up to neo-cons? Also I brought up Johnson and Nixon. Johnson was the anti-war candidate and Goldwater the warmonger. How did that work out?
Also see: "Obama vs. Romney: UNKNOWABLE Foreign-Policy Differences"
"When campaigning for the White House, Woodrow Wilson pledged to keep the United States out of World War I. Franklin Roosevelt promised to keep America out of World War II. Lyndon Johnson promised in 1964 to keep American boys out of Vietnam but sent many there a year later. Richard Nixon surprised Americans by going to China, and Ronald Reagan surprised supporters and critics alike by pursuing talks with the Soviet Union to reduce nuclear stockpiles. George W. Bush promised a humble foreign policy that wouldn't involve nation-building, the antithesis of his actual behavior in office, while President Obama promised numerous breaks with the Bush approach, but has continued many of those policies and dramatically changed his stance on where a president may send troops without congressional permission. "
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/04/obama-vs-romney-unknowable-foreign-policy-differences/256044/
The crazy voting scenarios you describe have already taken place...in Mr. Obama's hometown in fact. Maybe they are still, maybe not, I don't live there so don't know.
A lot of crazy has taken place. It seems to me a lot of crazy early on took place in the Republican primaries. Votes literally got lost in people's junk email folders and so on, this was literally the claim used, and then when a recount was asked for they had lost those votes! I'm not saying that this necessarily would have made a significant difference or been for the best (Santorum could have won!) just all kind of crazy with the process.
I don't know if I've showed IDs proper so much as .... they often ask for your voting information pamphlet and check your name off of that, though I've forgotten it and they've just asked for my name and check that it's on the list. This alone prevents easy fraud, it eliminates all low hanging fruit just by itself, in order to commit voter fraud with even just this simple check you are basically committing identity theft in order to commit voter fraud. You are borrowing the name of some other registered voter and hoping they don't later come in. So it doesn't necessarily prevent sophisticated fraud by someone determined to commit fraud.
We could have a national ID card :). Haha, we'll get one by the backdoor anyway. I think you should be required to show your IP address.
Show me evidence of voter fraud to warrant this. Give me a link, or statistics, or pie charts that prove voter fraud enough to warrant this. You keep insisting that this is all just to 'protect' us. I'll remember this when you start crying about regulations and restrictions that are designed to 'protect' us. Funny how some would have it both ways.
We aren't stupid. We don't have stupid tattooed on our foreheads. We know exactly why this voter suppression is going on. Did you read my last post about Pennsylvania laws and how difficult it is to get 'voter worthy' ID? Did you read my post about how difficult they were making it for students? It's not simply a matter of just go down and get one. They (the republicans) are putting up every road block they can think of to keep young, elderly, new, or un-savvy voters from voting.
THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD! THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD! THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD!
Prove that this is needed. Where are your small government creds? Where is your disdain for waste and abuse? this is wasteful of tax dollars to FIX A PROBLEM THAT DOES NOT EXIST.
Don't' try to change the subject with talk of guns, and if war is truly your fear, well, don't vote republican! Frankly Gregg, I am offended by your 'comparison' of actual gun violence/deaths to voting (for democrats apparently) Over 11 thousand gun deaths a year. Pretty offensive and frivolous of you to toss them aside for some voter ID sound bite. I thought you were better than that.
...We aren't stupid. We don't have stupid tattooed on our foreheads. We know exactly why this voter suppression is going on. Did you read my last post about Pennsylvania laws and how difficult it is to get 'voter worthy' ID?
...
Damned Republicans!!
My drivers license expires on Nov 1st, just 5 days before the election, and my local DMV office refuses to open on Sunday to make things right for me. It's clearly an effort to marginalize me.
Damn those Republicans!!
Curious who seems to be the one wanting to play it both ways. It's moot anyway, laws are on the books to prevent abuses and deter abusers. There has been voter fraud in the past so there are laws to prevent it in the future. THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD because measures are taken to prevent it. A PROBLEM DOES NOT EXIST because there is monitoring and laws to help keep it from existing. Any laws will become antiquated over time and will need updating as society and/or technology changes. It is simply not unreasonable, in this age of computer graphic capability, to ask someone to present a difficult to counterfeit ID when they go to vote. I can spend about 5 minutes on this computer and perfectly mock up my daughters student ID with my name and picture. That's why it doesn't work for her to buy liquor. Or guns. Or vote. I can't reproduce the holograms and other security measures on my driver's license and most others can't either. That's why it does work.
Damned Republicans!!
My drivers license expires on Nov 1st, just 5 days before the election, and my local DMV office refuses to open on Sunday to make things right for me. It's clearly an effort to marginalize me.
Damn those Republicans!!
Unthinkable Alan. Have you called the ACLU?
And how many people are killed when the vote is used to elect a leader who gets us in and/or keeps us in a war? If a vote were not that powerful there would be no reason to passionately defend some one's right to cast it, would there?
I never said a vote wasn't powerful. Where did I say that. Maybe I'm not so crass as to equate a single persons vote with a horrible death by gun, but I never implied that a vote wasn't powerful.
And how exactly are these voter suppression laws supposed to keep us from electing the 'wrong' leaders, who apparently are democrats, and...wait, I just answered my own question.
I guess I can see why you are for, actually vigorously for, voter ID laws (voter suppression) even though THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD. Your guy is a loser, and his/republican message can not stand on it's own merit. I can see why you hope these laws stick. I guess I'm not surprised. Just disappointed. Disappointed in those who vote for these shysters and snake oil salesmen knowing full well the con they are playing.
I'm out of this discussion. You all can talk among yourselves and tell each other all the little lies you need to, to make yourselves feel better about these dirty tricks your party is pulling on the American people. You are part of it. With your votes you own it.
This whole thing strikes me as something of a tempest in a teapot. I would think that there are a lot more productive means of vote fraud than at the retail level, and most people who can't or won't get themselves an ID probably won't make it to the polls anyway. I think there's a bit of disingenuousness in both the fervor to protect us from bogus voters as well as the insistence that requiring as much trouble as it takes to register your dog amounts to disenfranchisement. Surely there are bigger issues to get EXCERCISED OVER. Like whether the Pentagon has contingency plans for the invasion of Canada or the maximum allowable soft drink size in New York.
I never said a vote wasn't powerful. Where did I say that. Maybe I'm not so crass as to equate a single persons vote with a horrible death by gun, but I never implied that a vote wasn't powerful.
Your guy is a loser, and his/republican message can not stand on it's own merit.
It's not hard to extrapolate someone's position on the importance of voting if they're not even willing to take one small step to simply verify that those casting the votes are who they say they are. No one's rights, civil or constitutional, are violated by asking them to provide proof of who they are to engage in the voting process.
For the record "my guy" is yet to be determined. Truth is I don't like either of the front runners. Even though I assume one of them will be the next President I may yet "waste" my vote on a third party or write-in candidate.
Gregg, it all depends on what documents are "valid" identity documents. What proof must they provide? My mother in law has had a terrible time trying to get an Indiana ID card. Not a drivers license, just an ID card. She had an expired passport with picture, a birth certificate that she has used for over 75 years, SScard, utility bills, lease, credit cards, etc....... They required her to get an "official" birth certificate (since they said the one she had used for all those years was not valid even with stamp) and then prove her marriage to show her current name. It did not matter that the wedding was 61 years ago and she was a widow. We found it was easier and cheaper to renew her passport and get the card for $55 plus picture. Then we take the valid passport card to get her state ID.
She would never have figured this all out without her kids and the computer to help figure out how to get it all done. With all the moving around that people do, it is going to be more and more of a hassle to get any kind of identification. Passports now are well over $100. The birth certificate would be around $30 and a 12 week wait unless a premium was paid to "expedite" it. Many of these costs are going to turn people away and in the long run make it harder to prove identity.
ps: We found out she has never voted. She will be a virgin voter at age 80.
My mother in law has had a terrible time trying to get an Indiana ID card. Not a drivers license, just an ID card. She had an expired passport with picture, a birth certificate that she has used for over 75 years, SScard, utility bills, lease, credit cards, etc....... They required her to get an "official" birth certificate (since they said the one she had used for all those years was not valid even with stamp) and then prove her marriage to show her current name. It did not matter that the wedding was 61 years ago and she was a widow.
I had a similar problem with my grandmother, coming back through the border a few years ago. She had her hand-written birth certificate from some small village in the hills of Kentucky, and a library card. The birth certificate wasn't in her current name of course, she'd been married since she was 14 or so. She didn't have a drivers license, she never learned to drive. They were most rude to us, since apparently my mid-80s grandma was either a terrorist or a migrant worker, and wanted to force her to walk about 1/2 a mile up a hill to the other office, though she had just had bypass surgery, and could maybe walk 20 yards every few minutes.
She's voted in every election during her life, and worked in a factory in WWII building armaments, while her husband was overseas fighting the Nazis, and her brother-in-law in Pearl Harbor, still at his post on the USS Arizona, where he remains today. I think she has earned her right to vote, and not be hassled by poll workers. A voter registration card and any form of reasonable identification should suffice, IMHO.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3908342400_1ec437ed0c.jpg
We should be getting more people to vote. I think something like less then 60 percent of the people vote. This is not good for our democracy. The following is how the Colorado republicans are trying to disenfranchise voters. Democrats do it along with Republucans when they both redistrict after a census.
Link to article.
http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-look-voter-fraud-little-172327169--election.html
"We have real vulnerabilities in the system," said Colorado Secretary of State Scott Gessler, a Republican elected in 2010 who is making a name for himself at home by pursuing the issue. "I don't think one should be saying the sky is falling, but at the same time, we have to recognize we have a serious vulnerability."
COLORADO
Last year, Gessler estimated that 11,805 noncitizens were on the rolls.
But the number kept getting smaller.
After his office sent letters to 3,903 registered voters questioning their status, the number of noncitizens now stands at 141, based on checks using a federal immigration database. Of those 141, Gessler said 35 have voted in the past. The 141 are .004 percent of the state's nearly 3.5 million voters.
Even those numbers could be fewer.
The Denver clerk and recorder's office, which had records on eight of the 35 voters who cast ballots in the past, did its own verification and found that those eight people appear to be citizens."
http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/vot/intro/intro_b.php
Just a minor piece of legislation that transformed access to the ballot and did away with generations of inequity.
Based on his responsibilities to uphold the Voting Rights Act. That's all...
Sounds like there may be more to it than that.
The Justice Department’s ruling, which affects races for City Council and mayor, went so far as to say partisan elections are needed so that black voters can elect their “candidates of choice” - identified by the department as those who are Democrats and almost exclusively black.
Read more: Justice concludes black voters need Democratic Party - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/20/justice-dept-blocks-ncs-nonpartisan-vote/#ixzz27QnM2ZOi) http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/20/justice-dept-blocks-ncs-nonpartisan-vote/#ixzz27QnM2ZOi
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I had a similar problem with my grandmother, coming back through the border a few years ago. She had her hand-written birth certificate from some small village in the hills of Kentucky, and a library card. The birth certificate wasn't in her current name of course, she'd been married since she was 14 or so. She didn't have a drivers license, she never learned to drive. They were most rude to us, since apparently my mid-80s grandma was either a terrorist or a migrant worker, and wanted to force her to walk about 1/2 a mile up a hill to the other office, though she had just had bypass surgery, and could maybe walk 20 yards every few minutes.
She's voted in every election during her life, and worked in a factory in WWII building armaments, while her husband was overseas fighting the Nazis, and her brother-in-law in Pearl Harbor, still at his post on the USS Arizona, where he remains today. I think she has earned her right to vote, and not be hassled by poll workers. A voter registration card and any form of reasonable identification should suffice, IMHO.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3908342400_1ec437ed0c.jpg
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ToomuchStuff
9-25-12, 1:52am
I guess I can see why you are for, actually vigorously for, voter ID laws (voter suppression) even though THERE IS NO MEASURABLE VOTER FRAUD. Your guy is a loser, and his/republican message can not stand on it's own merit. I can see why you hope these laws stick. I guess I'm not surprised. Just disappointed. Disappointed in those who vote for these shysters and snake oil salesmen knowing full well the con they are playing.
I'm out of this discussion. You all can talk among yourselves and tell each other all the little lies you need to, to make yourselves feel better about these dirty tricks your party is pulling on the American people. You are part of it. With your votes you own it.
First in a post, you say there is NO voter fraud, and one sentence later, you say there is no measureable voter fraud. Two different things.
Then you say you are out of this discussion and flip flop like every other politician and come back in with the ++1.
It's not hard to extrapolate someone's position on the importance of voting if they're not even willing to take one small step to simply verify that those casting the votes are who they say they are. No one's rights, civil or constitutional, are violated by asking them to provide proof of who they are to engage in the voting process.
For the record "my guy" is yet to be determined. Truth is I don't like either of the front runners. Even though I assume one of them will be the next President I may yet "waste" my vote on a third party or write-in candidate.
My "guy" is determined based on the candidates, and if you remember Brewster's Millions, you know it: "NONE OF THE ABOVE", written in. Some will complain of course of "wasting my vote" and I hear both sides ALL FREAKING DAY at work. Profanity smiley needed. But it is both my free speech and right to vote that my family has fought and died for. In the end we are not a democracy, but a republic and the real votes that mater, are the electoral college and I haven't received acceptance to attend.
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I have heard all kinds of horror stories, especially from small town area's or country area's etc. So much of the ID issues came about due to the patriot act, issues, which both sides passed. (this doesn't cover the fore mentioned, redistricting, etc).
Gregg, it all depends on what documents are "valid" identity documents. What proof must they provide? My mother in law has had a terrible time trying to get an Indiana ID card. Not a drivers license, just an ID card. She had an expired passport with picture, a birth certificate that she has used for over 75 years, SScard, utility bills, lease, credit cards, etc....... They required her to get an "official" birth certificate (since they said the one she had used for all those years was not valid even with stamp) and then prove her marriage to show her current name. It did not matter that the wedding was 61 years ago and she was a widow. We found it was easier and cheaper to renew her passport and get the card for $55 plus picture. Then we take the valid passport card to get her state ID.
She would never have figured this all out without her kids and the computer to help figure out how to get it all done. With all the moving around that people do, it is going to be more and more of a hassle to get any kind of identification. Passports now are well over $100. The birth certificate would be around $30 and a 12 week wait unless a premium was paid to "expedite" it. Many of these costs are going to turn people away and in the long run make it harder to prove identity.
ps: We found out she has never voted. She will be a virgin voter at age 80.
I think going this route will be temporary - I can't imagine someone isn't going to come along and ask why people can get passports when they can't even get enough documentation together for voter ID.
I got my passport this year - getting an official NY birth certificate isn't cheap, either.
No one wants to stop Sweetana3's MIL and bae's grandmother from voting (at least I don't). The question is, do we make laws that work 90% of the time and then work to accommodate the other 10% or do we make laws that work in the opposite direction? I believe we need to update the laws we have on the books that help guard against voter fraud. I just don't think we can afford to enforce that legislation in a way that specifically caters to small groups of people (speaking in percentages). I think we need to look at what will immediately work for the largest group of people and then figure out what the best method to include everyone else is. Does the smaller group need insurance against disenfranchisement? Absolutely! Just as with ANY legislation we need to be sure it does not discriminate. Unfortunately there will always be someone who outside the focus of a rule and will be excluded until their particular circumstance is addressed. I don't know any way around that. The key is how effective we can be at addressing those situations. If peggy's claims were correct and very large numbers of people would be excluded then it's probably a poor solution to require government IDs. If it turns out that only a small percentage of voters are effected, and by small I think of 1% or 2%, not 49%, then its not a bad solution as long as we have a way to get that group included in the process.
As a practical matter, how do people without driver's licenses, or other state ID, register to vote in your states? In my state I simply register when I get my DL so its all one step. Not sure how its done other places or for that matter here when you don't have a DL. Have to look into that...
Voter fraud is a tiny problem being made into a huge one... For what reason? The cornerstone of our democratic republic is voting, and we have worked out a very good voter reg process. I say that we stick with what works, and stop making up dramatic what-ifs to fund expensive & dubious efforts with clear disenfranchisement impacts.
IMHO, voter ID laws are indicative of nothing more than anxiety on the part of those electeds, who thus far have all been from one party. Makes me wonder.
Millions of dollars spent to solve a "problem" (voter fraud) that didn't really exist. Wholly inadequate remedies for Gregg's "10%" to rectify their situation and earn back the right to vote (proof in itself that that right is just a talking point).
Fearmongering, purging, and harassment, mostly led by conservative lawmakers.
Pulling the rug out from under voters, as has happened in my state (hundreds of thousands of people are still unaware that, in my swing state, if you did not vote in the mid-term election in 2010, you are no longer registered. They will discover this when they show up at the polls, and are turned away. Conservatives are banking on this.)
Demonizing ordinary people as moochers and parasites, for the crime of being low income. And high-pitched screeching whenever there is talk of raising the minimum wage to something a human being can live on.
And the polls haven't even opened yet. Can't wait to see what happens then.
Really a nauseating place to live right now. Who are these people, and where did they put my country?
iris lily
9-25-12, 11:59pm
While no one here will admit it, the bit by Project Veritus about someone impersonating Attorney General Eric Holder in the voting line at Holder's own precinct was damned funny.
https://www.theprojectveritas.com/node/116
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