View Full Version : Diabetes
San Onofre Guy
9-25-12, 11:18am
Tell me if I am wrong in my thinking. A coworker of mine told me yesterday that she has diabetes. She knows that I eat a mostly plant diet and that I have lost weight over the past three years. She on the other hand has ballooned in the time she has worked in my office, about 6-8 years. She has been spoken to over the years about all of the sweets and snacks that she brings in the office to share. We all like the snacks, but if they are not here, we don't miss them. Some in the office have actually picked up the snack selection and taken it to her office and said No we don't want these!
I don't have much empathy towards her health issue. I do empathize over her mental issues which I am certain led her to this point of poor diet and diabetes.
I find that I am not alone in my lack of empathy for those who ignore healthy eating habits and become insulin dependent. I do have empathy for those who are diabetic for no fault of their own, ie. genetics, but increasingly that is a very small percentage of the diabetic community.
Am I wrong?
I'm sure you'll find lots of support for your lack of empathy. The older I get, the more I appreciate the sentiment "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle (or carrying a heavy burden)."
Type 2 diabetes is thought by many (forgive the Fox-esque non-attribution) to be on the rise due to financial interests pushing grain and sugar-heavy diets on a population prone to metabolic syndrome. Over-production of insulin leads to hunger, which leads to eating more starchy food, which leads to hunger, etc.
It's easy to criticize and divert our attention from our own challenges, which are often painful to contemplate.
I oftentimes have to slap myself down from a "holier-than-thou" mental process. I do take trips down that road far too often myself.
Just the other day, my co-worker was lamenting that his dad (a recent heart patient) was not following the medical advice to be active, monitor diet, restrict excessive alcohol, etc. I think he was talking to me, since my dad just died, but had a nearly lifelong history of heart trouble and followed all advice - to the point of perhaps extremism. He was a vegetarian long before it was popular or mainstream, for example. My dad lived a good long life, for 47 years after his first heart attack. He had subsequent stents, bypasses, proceedures, etc - but was relatively healthy for all but the last few weeks of life. Most of this can be attributed to lifestyle changes, that set him up to be healthier / stronger to recover from the setbacks.
Although I have a sympathetic ear, I told my co-worker that ultimately WE ALL DIE. No matter what we do or don't do, we will die. Some people don't make the recommended changes (no matter how common sense) because they don't see the value in them. Maybe your co-worker can't envision giving up her unhealthy diet and can't accept the lifestyle change it would represent.
Additionally, although not necessarily diabetes related, I have heard people lament, "If I have to give up (fill in the blank), life won't be worth living".
I recommend you continue to be a resource for your colleague, as I think you are today. Show her by your actions what a healthy diet looks like. Best of luck!
catherine
9-25-12, 12:07pm
I have been working on market research projects in the area of diabetes for 15 years. The number of diabetic patients primary care doctors report seeing/treating has grown in that time, and typically now when I ask them what proportion of their patients have diabetes, they're telling me 30%. 30%!!! I don't know how you define an epidemic, but... !
And does the blame go to the 30% individually, or to a degenerating collective consciousness?
I agree that we should take responsibility for our health, but I agree with Jane that there's more behind the curtain than lack of will power. I personally think that processed foods, highly refined carbohydrates, the ubiquity of high fructose corn syrup and endocrine disrupters in many products such as the plastic we drink out of are also playing a part. And not to say "the devil made me do it," but our eating habits ARE influenced by the relentless billions spent on advertising food that is nutritionally barren.
ApatheticNoMore
9-25-12, 12:08pm
I think it's usually several things:
1) ignorance. Now there's lots of debate about diet, but some things are basically understood, transfats are bad, excess omega 6 fat is bad etc.. Yet this stuff is all over the food supply. Sugar is bad as well but I think that one is less due to ignorance than it is due to #3
2) unhealthy culture. The food at restaurants is unhealthy (but in moderation it probably won't kill you), the food at most stores is unhealthy (though you'll be ok if you stick to produce), healthy food actually requires going out of one's way. Even in cultures equal to our sweet consumption, though there is some correlation with shorter lifespan, they don't have U.S. levels of obesity. The American diet is uniquely unhealthy compared to anywhere in the world almost!
3) emotional problems. It seems to me that any empathy with the emotional issues leads to empathy with the health issues (if you really in your own body know what depression is, then it's hard not to understand, even if it's not how you handle depression). If you feel like you hardly want to live anyway, and what do you know chocolate, and even if it's killing you long term, if it makes life feel ok and hurt less NOW. A lot less sympathy for true drug addicts then this, well yes, because I have seen drug addicts destroy not only themselves but emotionally use and destroy other people with thier manipulation, the sugar addict not so much so. Cigarettes might at least be a close comparison, I do hate people I care about smoking themselves to death!
decemberlov
9-25-12, 12:09pm
I've thought the same way before San Onofre Guy, however I do have to remind myself that I was lucky enough to be raised in a household where health was very important and my mom did tons and tons of research about health. She was on a macrobiotic diet before most people (at least where we are from) knew what a macrobiotic diet was. I feel that because of this I am a little more health conscious that the average person. But then again health is now become more and more "trendy" with the abundance of information we have and new "diets" coming out all the time etc. Problem being, not everything is accurate.
I guess the point I'm making is that some people just aren't educated enough to make proper decision on their health (nor are all doctors for that matter).
So I guess I would say that for the most part I have sympathy and compassion.
Miss Cellane
9-25-12, 12:09pm
I think a lot of people self-medicate with food. Feeling sad/lonely/abandoned/hurt/done wrong by your friends? Eat something sweet/salty/fatty and you feel better, temporarily.
Some people self-medicate with mind-altering drugs. Some with alcohol. Some with tobacco. Some with food. Some methods are legal; some not. All have consequences.
I understand that it is frustrating to see overweight/diabetic people who seem to ignore what they need to do to be healthier.
I also understand that eating can be an incredible emotional thing and also that there is alot of genetics involved too.
But if someone consistently ignores reasonable suggestions for overcoming their diabetes and ignores people saying "please don't bring these unhealthy things to work", then I don't have sympathy for them (except as you said, for her mental health problems).
She may think (rightly or wrongly) that offering goodies to others is a way to please others. Maybe that's how she was raised. But unfortunately, she doesn't seem to be picking up on cues. I imagine her psychological need to do this is greater than her need to be healthy.
But I totally understand your frustration.
What would happen if someone brought in a veggie tray with dip? Or a bowl of fruit?
ApatheticNoMore
9-25-12, 12:21pm
You know I almost forgot about the sugar in processed "non-sweet" foods, which is major, because I don't eat those processed foods!!! So to me sugar means chocolate bars or pastries or something, a deliberate and conscious ingestion of sugar for the intended effect (emotional or just tastes good). Wow, probably not even like that for many people.
catherine
9-25-12, 12:29pm
You know I almost forgot about the sugar in processed "non-sweet" foods, which is major,
Absolutely... when I gave up high fructose corn syrup for Lent a couple of years ago, I literally had to learn to cook. Unfortunately, up to that point I had heavily depended on processed foods, as I'm not much of a cook. I was amazed that HFCS was in EVERYTHING.. I couldn't buy turkey stuffing. I couldn't buy cranberry sauce. I couldn't buy bread. I couldn't buy ketchup.
It was a wonderful experience because I wound up buying bread from local bakers and all my food from local food stands. I went on a "locavore" field trip every weekend to learn where I could get my food from, since supermarkets were out of the question that Lent.
" Originally Posted by San Onofre Guy
Am I wrong?"
Yes.
As a type 2 diabetic I agree with bae. I do control my weight but it is not easy when people will continually push food at me especially sweets. Many times I have to violate my privacy rights and tell them I am a dibetic to get them to stop. To many food is like a drug and just as hard to get off of.
I find that I am not alone in my lack of empathy for those who ignore healthy eating habits and become insulin dependent. I do have empathy for those who are diabetic for no fault of their own, ie. genetics, but increasingly that is a very small percentage of the diabetic community.
Am I wrong?
I guess it depends on how you interpret "genetics". We were not designed for this world we live in - we were designed for a world where the next good meal may be a long way off - where not gorging yourself when it was available could kill you, not picking the highest calorie foods could kill you, unnecessarily burning calories could kill you, maintaining a metabolism any higher than what was necessary could kill you, etc. Under the right conditions a lot of what makes people unhealthy today would be pro-survival.
I find that I am not alone in my lack of empathy for those who ignore healthy eating habits and become insulin dependent. I do have empathy for those who are diabetic for no fault of their own, ie. genetics, but increasingly that is a very small percentage of the diabetic community.
Am I wrong?
Yes, by your own admission, if you lost weight over the past few years, you weren't perfect either. If she's "ballooned" in the past 6-8 years, then perhaps there is something else going on in her life that you can't see.
San Onofre Guy
9-25-12, 1:19pm
Thank you for your frank but kind comments. I just have to breath deeply calm down and accept everyone for who they are faults and all. It isn''t that I don't have faults, we all do.
I just have to shake my head when I see the gallons of soda pop drunk in this country and the diets of highly processed foods. Another co-worker told me that she eats healthy as she buys packaged sliced apples and baby carrots. I commended her for doing so, but we read the label and they have preservatives and the apples had added sugar! She now slices her own apples and carrots which I point out do not need to be refrigerated.
ApatheticNoMore
9-25-12, 1:28pm
. I commended her for doing so, but we read the label and they have preservatives and the apples had added sugar! She now slices her own apples and carrots which I point out do not need to be refrigerated.
I understand going to the effort to slice your own carrots and apples (I usually go to the effort of making my lunch myself for instance). But isn't it also madness that when we go to the store and pick up and apple or carrot pack that they have this junk in them? That we have to carefully read ingredients on the simplest things that we think would be straightforward? That nothing is what it seems? Isn't there a degree of madness to the fact I transport my lunch from home everyday because even the store near where I work sells mostly garbage, and it's either bring my lunch on my 50 minute commute or eat garbage because very little of the food surrounding me to I actually consider food?
I guess it depends on how you interpret "genetics". We were not designed for this world we live in - we were designed for a world where the next good meal may be a long way off - where not gorging yourself when it was available could kill you, not picking the highest calorie foods could kill you, unnecessarily burning calories could kill you, maintaining a metabolism any higher than what was necessary could kill you, etc. Under the right conditions a lot of what makes people unhealthy today would be pro-survival.
Quite true. My doctor has made the point a number of times that we are in some sense at war with nature here. He also claims that if we lived long enough, everyone would eventually become diabetic. This has led him to encourage me by saying, "Let's control this condition long enough for something else to kill you".
San Onofry Guy, About all you can do is model good eating habits and flatly refusing to partake in any of the goodies that are brought in. If asked, you can say how much better you feel and function by not poisoning you body.
Miss Cellane
9-25-12, 4:28pm
If there were an easy way to loose weight, someone would have patented it by now.
You also have to factor in that there is no one weight loss strategy that works for everyone. Add in the constantly changing information we get on food--butter is bad, margarine is good! No, wait, margarine is bad, butter is okay, but coconut oil is best! Eggs will kill you. Eggs are fine to eat in moderation. Sugar is bad. No, wait, artificial sweeteners are bad. Sugar is good, just don't have too much of it. Diet soda is better than regular soda. Nope, diet soda contains some weird molecule that will make you eat more than twice your weight in junk food.
And as the OP pointed out himself, even when you think you are buying healthy food--apples and carrots--you might not be.
And it's one thing to know what you *should* be eating, and another to come home to a hungry, grumpy family that just wants to be fed *now* when you yourself are tired from the day's work. There's a reason convenience foods became so popular--not everyone like to cook, not everyone likes to spend lots of time in the kitchen.
I am very overweight. What really helped me develop a way of eating that is allowing me to loose the weight slowly was realizing that it takes a lot of work to eat fresh, healthy food daily--a lot more than I had been putting in. Lots of menu-planning, lots of shopping, lots of food prep, lots of cooking, no more quick and easy snacks or meals. I do not find most of this enjoyable. I'd avoid it it I could. But if I did, I'd probably die an early death.
It's easy to say she should just eat better. It's a lot harder to put into practice.
To me it's layers of the onion. Diabetes is but one symptom of our over processed, over stressed, under satisfied, insatiable society. There are plenty of others. Obesity, insomnia, addiction of all kinds (Rx pills, booze, meth, TV, video games, food...whatever it takes to escape for a while), violence, MCS, exploding cancer rates, even poverty at many levels. All those things can be both a disease themselves and a symptom of something larger. I can't say whether or not your co-worker has what it takes to make the changes in her life by herself. Most people do, but that doesn't mean it isn't really, REALLY hard. And it will probably stay that way as long as our society keeps its head firmly in the sand regarding the big picture. We do so love to numb the symptom and pretend nothing else is wrong! As far as how you should deal with her, compassion seems like a reasonable response. I think its highly unlikely that she made a conscious choice to get to this point.
ETA: If you absolutely have to do something, offer to make the treats one day then take in the most incredible, decadent, super-healthy, low cal treat you can come up with. Then send me the recipe.
A complicating factor is there's a sea of conflicting information out there. ADA nutrition instructors will push a much higher carbohydrate load than most diabetics can handle, but oh well, you can just increase your medication. Experts like Richard K. Bernstein, MD present a much better-reasoned approach, but one that takes effort and long-term dedication. The ADA has only recently allowed that a Bernstein-type diet can work for "some." I feel sorry for newly-diagnosed type twos treading water in these seas. I've met more than one. They believe what authority figures are telling them, and it may kill them.
As far as snacking on apples and carrots, that's the last thing I'd support. Snacking itself unnecessarily raises insulin levels, and carbohydrate food just sets you up for a spike and subsequent blood sugar drop. If she has to eat between meals to maintain steady control, she'd be better off with an egg or slice of deli meat or something.
domestic goddess
9-25-12, 8:02pm
Does being empathetic to someone who is struggling diminish you in some way? If not, what is wrong with acknowledging her struggle, even if that particular issue isn't a struggle for you, and saying that you understand what it is to struggle with something difficult. Unless, of course, you have never had to struggle with anything, in which case you really don't know what it is like. But I really think most of us struggle with something or other, at one time or another, just as we all have our own flaws, and I don't see that a little empathy is out of order.
But what I'm hearing is that she ignores what people are saying to her about all these treats she brings in and she is insensitive to other people not wanting to be tempted with them. In light of her gaining weight over the past several years, its apparent that she probably eats like this a fair amount of the time. I honestly don't see how San Onofre Guy is being insensitive by not having alot of compassion for her situation or the choices she makes.
I guess it depends on how you interpret "genetics". We were not designed for this world we live in - we were designed for a world where the next good meal may be a long way off - where not gorging yourself when it was available could kill you, not picking the highest calorie foods could kill you, unnecessarily burning calories could kill you, maintaining a metabolism any higher than what was necessary could kill you, etc. Under the right conditions a lot of what makes people unhealthy today would be pro-survival.
Agreed. Also, diabetes, even today, does not become debilitating/life threatening right away, so when a person acquires it as an adult they would still, even totally untreated, likely live long enough to have children and raise them to adulthood, thus propogating their genes successfully into the next generation. As such natural selection has never acted against the continuation of diabetes from generation to generation. The fact that it is so genetically prevalent makes me wonder if there isn't even some odd short-term benefit to diabetics, or at least people carrying the diabetic gene, in terms of surviving in harsh conditions of limited food.
Back to the OP. I would personally err on the side of empathy. I try to eat healthy foods, mainly by trying to follow Michael Pollan's basic suggestions from the end of his Food Rules book of 1) eat real food not processed, 2) not too much, and 3) mostly plants, not animal. (or whatever it is exactly that he says). However, there are plenty of days when SO and I get home from long days of work and both of us are quietly hoping that the other has enough energy to make something because we really don't have the energy to pull together a healthy dinner. Most of the time one of us will, but sometimes we'll pull out a box of Kraft Mac'n'Cheese or something equally processed and unhealthy because the alternative would be going to bed hungry. And that's two non-picky-eater adults with no kids. I can only imagine a family that's further exhausted beyond work due to kids or other responsibilities.
Another example. Given its prevalence, most everyone here has probably known someone, or at least of someone, who has died of lung cancer from smoking. Sadly, by the time the person is diagnosed it's often too late for a behavior change to have any effect on the person's life span. Should we not feel sympathy and/or empathy for people who come down with this horrible disease? Most people who become addicted to cigarettes do so at an age when they aren't really capable of making an effective decision as to whether it's a good idea. Or, like my parents, they became addicted long before the health effects were acknowledged and reported. Should I really berate my dad because at 83 years old he hasn't stopped smoking, even though his lungs are slowly failing? After all, he's been addicted to cigarettes since the 1940s, and at this point even if he quit it would, at best, extend his life a few months or perhaps a year or two.
What about a 'We love you Diabetic Co-Worker and want you to be happy and be around for a long time and we need you' Party with these as treats... who wouldn't be touched by that!?!
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/553388_436715199714645_1107598390_n.jpg
The Human Condition is hard.
There are some people who just aren't plagued with behavior related weakness and have to just be going bananas watching our country's mid-sections increase to the detriment of our entire society.
'I can eat right and walk every day, why can't you?'
.... and then there are others who are infested with bad behavior coping skills.
..... and some that are infested, but can fight their way out of it.
I firmly believe that the stuff masquerading as food today is the equivalent of crack-cocaine to some people's systems, pair that kind of eating with the brain-cell killing crap they call cable programming and what a mess we have made!
Compassion can be contagious.
Full disclosure: there is a history of both diabetes and obesity in my family.
Despite these genetic predispositions, I have managed to avoid "The Big D" by bumping up my physical activity and by being careful about what I eat (basically a South Beach diet). Maybe this part is genetic, too, but that's hard for me. It is a continuous thwarting of what are more natural tendencies. It is a conscious effort to go and do something and it sometimes requires true creativity to balance what I can eat with what's available with the cost and, for example, whether the meal has to be "hand food". A sandwich can go from being a good choice to being too much just because of the bread and condiments which were used. When I was working, meetings often were held over lunch hour and lunch was provided. Often it was pizza. But eating low-carb makes it difficult to eat pizza for lunch. So -- eat nothing? Not a good choice for someone predisposed to big changes in blood sugar. Estrange myself from the group and eat something else? A choice, but it requires a bit too much explaining to a whole bunch of people who really don't need to know.
SO, I don't know what's going on in your colleague's life outside of work. But I can tell you that living with the specter of diabetes is a true effort for at least some of us and, like all attempts to live differently, doing it is not always as simple as it should seem. People always choose the best decision for themselves at any given moment (even if it doesn't serve them over the longer term). Your colleague is doing this right now. I urge compassion as well.
But what I'm hearing is that she ignores what people are saying to her about all these treats she brings in and she is insensitive to other people not wanting to be tempted with them. ... .
I've heard that--after refusing such "treats" repeatedly--some people have solved this problem by accepting one and throwing it away in full sight of the offender. An alternative is to say something like "I won't eat this; it will just be thrown away." and sound like you mean it.
domestic goddess
9-26-12, 11:04am
I would hate to think that I was wrong to have compassion for my mother, a former smoker who had quit nearly 30 years before her death, which was complicated by and, no doubt, hastened by her earlier smoking. Her lifestyle change came too late to make a difference in all that; did she get what she deserved? Should I have pointed out to her that she should never have started smoking? COPD and congestive heart failure made her last days miserable, as there was little that could be done to keep her really comfortable. At what point has someone suffered enough that they "deserve" empathy or compassio from others. I'm of the opinion that we all suffer in our own ways, and that compassion is rarely misplaced.
...compassion is rarely misplaced.
+1
San Onofre Guy
9-27-12, 2:21pm
Awareness is building. We had a birthday celebration this morning in the kitchen. Diabetic coworker showed me some wonderful organic snacks that she bought. I said lets take a look at the ingredients. All of the ingredients before Pectin the preservator was a sugar of some type. I said that this is fine and well that it is organic but it is all sugar, but not High Fructose Corn Syrup which is terrible. She and another coworker were shocked because they thought that being organic meant healthy. Not only was it almost all sugar, but one serving provided 2% of the RDA of sodium. Most people forget that the RDA of sodium is still higher than most people should ingest. The diabetic then said that they don't even taste that sweet. This led to a discussion about the importance of reading labels and how our version of what is sweet has changed over the years due to High Fructose Corn Syrup.
Eyes opened a little bit.
I'm big on personal responsibility, and so I feel as though I alone am responsible for whether I give in to "temptation" like snacks brought to work. I can't blame anyone else. I also don't listen to complaining from people who are obviously just creating their own fates by not taking responsibility for their health. But the worst I've ever said was, "I am envious that you seem to be able to tolerate eating so many yummy foods; I can't any more, really." (to which the person initiated a conversation about how it was causing her to gain weight and feel bad about herself, which opened the door to a good conversation about it...a little disingenuous, but hey, I'm crafty that way)
In my old age, I'm trying hard to follow the advice, "Educate, don't Judge." I think your example of showing everyone the ingredients on the package is a good example of that. Though it may seem crazy, a lot of folks - especially older folks or those who are averse to minutia - have never gotten into reading labels and questioning marketing messages.
I'm just surprised her doctor hasn't educated her about this stuff. Or maybe she just didn't listen.
Tough situation whenever that occurs.
Good for you for taking the time to talk to her about the importance of reading labels!!
Very few doctors educate any more. In fairness, they're not given the time.
I'm sad to say that of the several type 2 diabetics I've known, not one of them had a grip on cause or treatment. They just took their pills and hoped for the best--with predictably bad outcomes.
Very few doctors educate any more. In fairness, they're not given the time.
Good point....in my Kaiser network, prevention is huge, and they bug the cr@p out of you with educational materials whether you want them or not. Reminders about tests, free vaccination days, suggestions for (free) classes they offer, etc etc. I forget that not all doctors or insurance networks are this annoyingly overboard about it. Not that I'm complaining, mind you....
Congrats on the awareness-building, San Onofre Guy.
P.S. loved this idea too:
ETA: If you absolutely have to do something, offer to make the treats one day then take in the most incredible, decadent, super-healthy, low cal treat you can come up with. Then send me the recipe.
P.S. loved this idea too:
I thought of sugar-free, nut crust cheesecake. Not at all low-calorie, but likely to keep blood sugar stable for a few hours.
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