View Full Version : How can I help my friend who seems to have no will-power?
I have a friend who struggles with her will-power and self-control in relation to food and money.
She is very critical of herself, which pains me, and very fatalistic. By that I mean she will say things like "Well, I ate something unhealthy for lunch when I should've eaten that salad, so [because I failed myself] that means I'm going to go home and eat a whole tub of ice cream." She laughs about it, and she will go home and eat a whole tub of ice cream for dinner and then berate herself for it (publicly and privately). For some reason, she thinks she cannot will herself not to. She has a similar attitude to over-spending money.
She does these sorts of things on a daily basis, then beats herself up, no matter what anyone says to console her.
I want to help her out of this, but obviously the change has to come from her.
Have any of you dealt with anything similar?
Sounds almost self-destructive in action?
This can be such a complex issue for both the observer and observed to deal with, that, like a lifeguard, I would offer options for rescue such as a good book that deal with self worth or info about a chance at therapy offered locally or video about self-worth or mention a mutual friend who has knowledge and understanding about the issue.
Just as a lifeguard cannot make a drowning person grab a lifebuoy, you cannot offer much more or you will be sucked down and drowned yourself.
Bless you for wanting to help but please recognize you cannot make her decision to change, only she can. Hard to watch happen though, isn't it?
SteveinMN
9-29-12, 10:20am
Consider also that this may be a play for engagement and/or sympathy. What would happen if you simply stopped reacting to the negative self-talk?
I will admit that this kind of behavior is not something I tolerate well when it goes on and on and on. When a person continually offers that kind of self-criticism but doesn't do anything to change the situation, it becomes just noise to me and I won't waste precious "together time" on that. I'll still be around them, but I will not engage with that behavior.
leslieann
9-29-12, 11:09am
Razz has good advice as usual.
When I hear about this behaviour, I think that perhaps her public self-abasement is meant to make it okay for her to do whatever it is she is doing. For example, she says she's "bad" so that makes what she is doing less toxic (in her mind) because she has acknowledged it and so nobody else has to think she is "bad."
This says a lot about shame, poor self-worth, etc. It is so different from someone who eats a tub of ice cream and says, boy, that was good! and by the way, my stomach hurts so I don't think I'll do it again. That person is perhaps more reality based. It sounds like she is playing a game with herself, but I hurry to say that I am sure she doesn't realize it. For you, keeping some distance and a generally positive outlook ("I am sure you'll get this figured out in time..") might work. She doesn't need any more attention paid to her negative behaviour, as she is giving it all she's got already. And you are allowed to set limits on what you'll listen to, as Steve suggests.
Hug to you for your kindness....
ToomuchStuff
9-29-12, 11:20am
If you call her an idiot to her face, I doubt she will publicly berate herself in front of you and you will not have to deal with it. Then she will either self correct, or not, which you can't control anyway.:laff:
I am not sure why people think they can help those who won't help themselves. Can't and won't are NOT the same thing.
She's likely over-producing insulin, thus the hunger for carbohydrate-rich foods. It's a vicious cycle.
I don't think there's much you can do, realistically (short of shoving one of Gary Taubes' books at her). I agree that indulging her self-flagellation isn't good for either of you.
Mira, you're wonderful to want to help. If it were me, I would probably start by ceasing to console her.
It actually doesn't sound (to me) like she's struggling. These are choices she's making, this is the habit/pattern she's established for herself (including drawing her friends into it) and it sounds like the way she's choosing to live right now. "I have no willpower" is a pretty common cop-out. Somewhere, somehow, she's getting an internal reward for her behavior. Maybe it's chemical, as Jane suggests. Maybe it's the reaction she gets from her friends. Or both.
The truth is, we could ALL proceed through life on autopilot, playing the self-flagellation game, but if you want to be happier, you have to be willing to do the hard work of changing your patterns. If you want to show her a way to start doing that, there are many, many, many programs and coaches and forums on the internet for taking control of these kinds of behaviors, tiny step by tiny step. And the rush of realizing that you are in control of your own life? A trillion times better than anything you could eat or buy.
Maybe the next time she brings it up, you can offer to sit down with her and find something that sounds good. It will become clear at that moment whether she really wants to change, or whether she's just using you as part of her habit.
One of them that comes to mind immediately is Emotional Brain Training and the book Wired for Joy. It is very different from most programs, and explains in nonjudgmental detail the "wires" that lead to this kind of overindulgence, and how to (gently, compassionately) rewire yourself to move closer to the behaviors -- and thus the self-image -- you'd prefer to have. I liked it when I went through it, and I still use its tools to rewire my own behavior quite often. Handy.
What is that quote about change? “We change our behavior when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of changing. Consequences give us the pain that motivates us to change.”
ApatheticNoMore
9-29-12, 1:12pm
People have ocassionally posted about dieting psychology, like does anyone not "on a diet" actually eat a whole tub of ice cream? Well maybe once in a blue moon, but I'm willing to guess not often. Someone not on a diet might still eat more unhealthy food than they should, might still be fat, etc.. But the whole I blew lunch SO THEREFORE I must blow dinner or must eat a tub of ice cream, that whole set of bizarre reasoning, I just don't think arises except in the context of trying to be "on a diet". As trying to adhere to an *ideal*, blowing it, shame and sense that you are a failure and lack will power (which is probably the shame resulting from having to adhere to an overly lofty ideal of self in the first place, an ideal of self as one who never strays), punishment (heck even punishment to the point of pain, ice cream may be tasty but does eating a whole pint even feel good?).
You can certainly refuse to listen to her, whether she does it ONLY to get attention is doubtful (like I said I think these things are intra-psychic at root), but you don't have to give it to her, a simple: "I don't want to talk about your diet" is enough.
Tussiemussies
9-29-12, 4:09pm
It sounds like she has a food addiction. Maybe you could encourage her to go to the twelve step program, Overeaters Anonymous?
domestic goddess
9-29-12, 5:25pm
I hate to admit it, but I've said that very thing. Now, I never ate a whole tub of ice cream, but the self-castigation gave me permission to go ahead and stuff myself, or so I thought. I thnk that is perfectionism rearing its ugly head and saying " Nothing you do will ever be good enough. You're too weak to lose weight", etc.
Don't sympathize with her, except in the most general terms: " Yes, it's discouraging to feel you've messed up". Then point out to her that she doesn't have to make it worse; she can climb right back on the horse. It probably won't be what she wants to hear, but it will be what she needs to hear, and sometime it will begin to make sense to her. No one is perfect, and we all do things that are not in our best interests at times, and we mostly live through it. Only she can decide to make the change, though, and she will have to decide that it is important enough to her to do so. The fact that she does this nearly daily seems to me as if she is looking for some kind of validation. She needs to realize that we all budget something, be it calories, money, time, goodwill, or whatever. She is just like everyone else in that way. And most of us do fall off the wagon one way or another, and have to climb back on. I wonder if her diet is too strict, and doesn't allow any little treats, and that is why she falls off so frequently. If so, she needs dietary help to plan for those little indulgences, so she sees them not as failures, but as rewards for her hard work, though it seems that she rewards herself for her indiscretions. Dieting is hard work, as is living on a budget, as is most everything. Tell her, "Welcome to the human race!"
Thanks everyone, your comments and advice mean a lot.
It's hard to watch someone be so self-destructive. It's very probable that I can't help her, but it's not going to eliminate my feelings of wanting her to stop hating on herself.
Just as a lifeguard cannot make a drowning person grab a lifebuoy, you cannot offer much more or you will be sucked down and drowned yourself.
Very true. Sometimes it feels like this.
Consider also that this may be a play for engagement and/or sympathy. What would happen if you simply stopped reacting to the negative self-talk?
I will admit that this kind of behavior is not something I tolerate well when it goes on and on and on. When a person continually offers that kind of self-criticism but doesn't do anything to change the situation, it becomes just noise to me and I won't waste precious "together time" on that. I'll still be around them, but I will not engage with that behavior.
You're right. I have stopped engaging with her when she makes such comments and I no longer offer sympathy. Instead, I feel myself getting annoyed and I end up saying things like "You know you don't HAVE TO do that," or "Why don't you just NOT do it?" and she replies with a laugh, something along the lines of, "Because it's just what always happens," "I can't help it" etc. Maybe my approach is not the best.
The truth is, we could ALL proceed through life on autopilot, playing the self-flagellation game, but if you want to be happier, you have to be willing to do the hard work of changing your patterns.
Very well said. She definitely has a tendency to live on 'autopilot' and not question her actions with the possibility of enacting conscious change. A case in point - whenever we go out for a couple drinks, she'll say "I'm just going to limit myself to 4 drinks, ok?" and then during the course of the night, she'll have more than her self-imposed limit and say "Oh I knew I'd end up drinking more than I had planned, this always happens!" and she'll continue to order drinks...
I am a little wary of giving her unsolicited advice though. I don't think she will take it on board. She'll say to me, "Oh, you're right" but not act on it because it's obvious that she's not (yet?) willing to alter her behaviour patterns.
Tell her, "Welcome to the human race!"
Hehe, I love this. I think at times she really does see herself as a failure because she can't get the motivation to do exercise, or she over-spends on something, or gains a pound or two, or she eats unhealthily for a couple days. I'm not sure what she's trying to achieve by letting me and others aware of this information and her feelings about it; sympathy, validation, punishment?? Who knows. In any case, I hope I can be a good friend to her.
SteveinMN
9-30-12, 10:09am
Instead, I feel myself getting annoyed and I end up saying things like "You know you don't HAVE TO do that," or "Why don't you just NOT do it?" and she replies with a laugh, something along the lines of, "Because it's just what always happens," "I can't help it" etc. Maybe my approach is not the best.
Your approach is fine. She can too "help it". You know it; she knows it.
Your friend seems to have an addictive personality; everything is done until it's too much. I understand that some addictions, like drugs or tobacco, are harder to beat than others. But people with those addictions can change if they really want to. It sounds like your friend does not really want to. It's sad that she can't seem to garner encouragement by achieving even minor goals on the way to where she says she wants to go. It's all or nothing with her.
People have ocassionally posted about dieting psychology, like does anyone not "on a diet" actually eat a whole tub of ice cream? Well maybe once in a blue moon, but I'm willing to guess not often. Someone not on a diet might still eat more unhealthy food than they should, might still be fat, etc.. But the whole I blew lunch SO THEREFORE I must blow dinner or must eat a tub of ice cream, that whole set of bizarre reasoning, I just don't think arises except in the context of trying to be "on a diet". As trying to adhere to an *ideal*, blowing it, shame and sense that you are a failure and lack will power (which is probably the shame resulting from having to adhere to an overly lofty ideal of self in the first place, an ideal of self as one who never strays), punishment (heck even punishment to the point of pain, ice cream may be tasty but does eating a whole pint even feel good?).
You can certainly refuse to listen to her, whether she does it ONLY to get attention is doubtful (like I said I think these things are intra-psychic at root), but you don't have to give it to her, a simple: "I don't want to talk about your diet" is enough.
Excellent point. There's no better or faster way to pervert your relationship with food--likely for life--than to go on a weight loss diet.
Has she actually asked for help? I doubt that I'd do anything with someone I know in the scenario you describe.
Good luck, mira. Take care that you're getting more out of this relationship than just being her savior. I can't really allow friends like this in my life any more. They take a lot of energy and seem to give very little back (being so engrossed in self-destruction and learned helplessness).......funny, because I used to feel like I had to save everybody. Of course, I also shudder now at the thought of 4 drinks.....yikes!
Hehe, I love this. I think at times she really does see herself as a failure because she can't get the motivation to do exercise, or she over-spends on something, or gains a pound or two, or she eats unhealthily for a couple days. I'm not sure what she's trying to achieve by letting me and others aware of this information and her feelings about it; sympathy, validation, punishment?? Who knows. In any case, I hope I can be a good friend to her.
I realized that I am doing some of this recently. I know that I am quick to point out my failings so that no one else has to, sort of a self-defense mechanism. For me, it's a reaction to hearing a lot of criticism in the past. Or at least what I interpreted as criticism.
I used to hear at Weight Watchers when we'd talk about the "I've blown it" mentality, that if you have one flat tire, you don't take a knife and slash the other 3, do you? If you drop and break one plate, you don't take the others out the cabinet and smash them, too, do you? You've gotten good advice here, maybe offer one or two of these statements. Encourage her to say "won't" instead of "can't" (I can't stop eating the cookies" to "I won't stop eating the cookies.") Makes one take ownership of one's actions. Not sure how helpful this all is; until she's motivated to change herself, she's not going to.
ETA - I posted this before reading Spoony's great info.
Mira, is there something that you could perhaps suggest that you try to do together? I would not have gone to Weight Watchers other than a friend suggested that I went along with her for company. Also on the financial front maybe suggest that you both try to save a specific amount towards the up-coming Christmas expenses? They may only be baby-steps but might be just the nudge that is needed.
I realized that I am doing some of this recently. I know that I am quick to point out my failings so that no one else has to, sort of a self-defense mechanism. For me, it's a reaction to hearing a lot of criticism in the past. Or at least what I interpreted as criticism.
I think there may be elements of this, for sure.
Has she actually asked for help? I doubt that I'd do anything with someone I know in the scenario you describe.
No, she hasn't. I'm starting to realise that it's pointless too! :)
Thanks so much again for your comments everyone.
I felt myself getting sucked in the other day... she had had a cruddy day for a few reasons, and kept telling me how she was going to go home and order pizza to make herself feel better. I don't see the eating of pizza to be something worth announcing repeatedly, other than out of self-flagellating guilt, but anyway...
I told her that I sometimes have pizza once a week, at weekends when I can't be bothered cooking. She then responded "Once a week?! But you stay so thin!!" To which I replied, to my own horror, "Well, over the last few years I've started getting fat in various places and have grown out of some clothes" etc... I promptly stopped myself. I don't talk about this crap with anyone because it's not worth talking about. It's my own personal responsibility. I hate conversations where the topic of choice is "what I hate about myself". No thanks.
iris lily
10-13-12, 9:12am
Something to consider here is that you may be irritated because your friend's conversation is annoying. She's boring. I wouldn't want to hear constant recitations of what someone ate, bringing the conversation back to "poor little me" focus.
It may be time to put distance between you and this person.
JaneV2.0
10-13-12, 10:47am
Indeed. "Poor little me" is an attitude that never served anyone well--at least not for long. And boring people are to be tolerated in increasingly small stretches, IMO.
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