View Full Version : Surprising (or not so surprising) update on friend's son
Some of you might remember the thread earlier this year about a friend's late 20s son and his rude to everyone fiancee.
Church wedding was originally set for today, but they got married in a civil ceremony earlier this year as fiancee had health problems and needed to be on my friend's son's insurance.
My friend wasn't at church today, so I assumed she was doing wedding stuff (wedding being held at different church son belonged to). I talked to her husband, though. He seemed VERY relieved when he told me the whole thing had been called off about a month ago. Turns out the young couple is getting a divorce. Her behavior had been getting worse and worse, and the son was the one who called it off, I was told.
Thankfully, no baby on the way. My friend's hubby said he'd been very frank with his son, telling him he should think long and hard before having children with this woman.
I was glad to hear the son came to his senses. The girl must have treated his parents so over the top that he just couldn't take it any more.
I remember you posting this. I hope that your friend's son has learned something from this experience. Like going into a marriage with your eyes open!
I'm glad that it's ending well and quickly. I hope the woman also gets the help that she needs.
I'm glad that it's ending well and quickly. I hope the woman also gets the help that she needs.
Maybe this will be a wake up call for her. Too bad your friend's son didn't make this decision before he married her, but at least he's getting out before things like house and kids came along. Then it would be lot more complicated!
Wildflower
10-1-12, 10:05pm
That is rather sad. Too bad the young man is not mature enough in his love to stand by her and get her the help she may need or he may need. Counseling would be in order here. Marriage seems to mean nothing to some young people these days. Love means nothing as well....
I remember standing by my DH 35 years ago as he went through drug and alcohol rehab. We got through it. We were dedicated to each other. He got well then and is still fine today, and now dealing with my health problems in an exceptional way. We love each other. We stand by each other. Whatever happened to wedding vows. They seem to mean nothing to some these days...
Wildflower, the young woman would have to want to change. And who knows? The behavior I personally witnessed indicated someone most definitely very self-centered and not seeming to care a bit about others.
Wildflower
10-1-12, 10:20pm
Wildflower, the young woman would have to want to change. And who knows? The behavior I personally witnessed indicated someone most definitely very self-centered and not seeming to care a bit about others.
Possibly she is Bipolar and needs to be on medication. I still think that counseling should be pursued before a quickie divorce. Marriage isn't just something you throw away. Obviously, there was some point these two were in love, at least enough to get married, and you said she has health problems - maybe that is a contributing factor?
Maybe he tried those avenues with her, and she refused.
At a certain point, sometimes you *do* have to move on.
I wouldn't make a blanket statement about "young people these days" because the rate of divorce has held pretty consistent since the 1980s, and actually declined in the last 10 years. So, it doesn't actually hold true. Young people these days who do choose to marry (the marriage rate is about the same -- with a 1 point difference in the last 10 years) are more likely to stay married than young people who married 30 years ago.
So, mind where you point the finger.
If my partner were not getting help for an addiction problem, I would not be with him for the sake of my child. He deserves not to be raised with an addict. If my husband was getting help, then yes, we would go through it together -- including with DS because he deserves to see his father redeem himself.
But it makes no sense to stay with someone who *refuses* to get help for their issues -- particularly if it's harming to the others in the family.
A friend of mine is going through a divorce now. Her husband has had anger issues for a long time, but it's never seemed a big problem to her. Then a succession of things happened (hardships) and he became increasingly aggressive. He began to hit her, and then did so in front of the kids.
She tried everything in the book to get help. She tried couples counseling; he refused to participate. She suggested an anger management group; he refused. She suggested workbooks. She did workbooks and counseling herself.
It was this last week that she finally got into a shelter to escape domestic violence. She and her 3 kids were finally allowed in. She'd been on a waiting list for the last 3 months. We've been providing support through the internet -- emotionally and financially.
She has reported the last 7 acts of violence, she has a protective order in place now, and the children have supervised visitation (with his aunt providing supervision under court order).
He still asserts that there's no problem with his anger, that sometimes she deserves it, and that he's not going to get help. He even told this to the judge who provided the protective order.
Sometimes, you have to go. It doesn't mean you don't value marriage.
Wildflower
10-1-12, 10:42pm
Zoebird, I don't know the whole situation, but it doesn't sound as if they explored getting any help with their problems. And Tradd speaks of her awful behavior. I have a sister that is bipolar and her behavior is awful if she isn't on meds...
I just think some effort should be put into a marriage before throwing it away. These two have been married a very short time.
And yes, for many today divorce is easy come, easy go. The marriage vows mean nothing... Which I have only witnessed personally in the younger generation, not in mine, not in my parents, and not in my grandparents, and I have lived in a pretty big world. Commitment meant alot more with these generations than nowadays. As far as the lower divorce statistics in younger people you speak of -would that not be in relation to the fact that there are less young people now as opposed to the baby boomer generation?
Of course, I don't think someone should stay in a marriage where they are being abused, physically or mentally.....but I think every resource of help should be explored before walking away from a marriage.
Wildflower, the young woman's health issue was something that was solved by surgery and is fine now. Not chronic.
There a number of factors to this situation that I'll not go into here, but the whole picture makes this outcome the best that could have happened, short of them not getting married at all. That the young woman has some unsavory acquaintances is all I'll say. To describe her as "not a respectable young woman" is the kindest way I can describe her. Rude to everyone (except him), self-centered, extremely immature, no manners, a very entitled attitude. "Me, me, me." That type would only be helped with a personality transplant. Last I checked, those weren't available yet.
My cynical theory is that the guy must have been getting some pretty danged good sex for a while that blinded him to how she really was. Her behavior kept getting worse and worse, and there was something that was the last straw for him, and he woke up.
"personality transplant" - love that!
I remember you talking about them before and how bad her behavior was.
.. I still think that counseling should be pursued before a quickie divorce. Marriage isn't just something you throw away. ..
I's probably counsel him to get out now and fast. Starter marriages are often starter for a reason.
And NOR MORE SEX! That will make a baby and he will be stuck forever.
Wildflower
10-2-12, 2:06am
I's probably counsel him to get out now and fast. Starter marriages are often starter for a reason.
And NOR MORE SEX! That will make a baby and he will be stuck forever.
Starter marriages.....seriously?
Zoebird, I don't know the whole situation, but it doesn't sound as if they explored getting any help with their problems. And Tradd speaks of her awful behavior. I have a sister that is bipolar and her behavior is awful if she isn't on meds...
Reality: we don't know. We're not 'in it.' Tradd isn't even in it. She probably only sees the very cursory end of things, not what is going on behind closed doors. It's likely that this young man hasn't even told his mother the whole situation, and I doubt that his mother has put the information out wide. No doubt, she's kept it all close to the best out of respect for her son's privacy (and possibly any shame that they might carry over this situation).
We don't have anywhere near enough information to "kids these days!" comments.
I just think some effort should be put into a marriage before throwing it away. These two have been married a very short time.
Yes, they have, but we don't know what effort was put in, and what effort wasn't. HOw much time is the right amount of time in an abusive relationship to determine that the person "put enough effort in?"
one year? ten? How much?
Because, to be honest, we are not *in it*. I'm not assuming this young woman was abusive -- but I know my SIL can be and was to past boyfriends (she also has bipolar disorder -- on and off meds). How long should they endure her abuse? One month? two? ten years? Sometimes, the extremity of the situation doesn't crop up until after the wedding, and usually one partner is pressured in.
Happened to a guy friend of mine. He was completely pressured into marrying this girl -- we kept advising him to be patient, take his time, reflecting his language back to him, and so on -- but they got married anyway. They divorced 4 months later because . . . after the wedding, she became increasingly violent with him. When she was yelling, he could manage it. But when she started throwing things at him, hitting him in his sleep, and at one point took a bat to his car and then went to come after him with it, he knew he had to go.
Even though they were in counseling *before* getting married because they wanted their relationship to really work.
Did he put in enough "effort" for you?
And yes, for many today divorce is easy come, easy go. The marriage vows mean nothing... Which I have only witnessed personally in the younger generation, not in mine, not in my parents, and not in my grandparents, and I have lived in a pretty big world. Commitment meant alot more with these generations than nowadays. As far as the lower divorce statistics in younger people you speak of -would that not be in relation to the fact that there are less young people now as opposed to the baby boomer generation?
The rates are per capita, so it doesn't matter if there are fewer young people than the magical, wonderful, and perfect unicorn-riding boomers. Those boomers, btw, ushered in two factors of this equation: 1. the decrease in marriage rates and 2. the increase in divorce rates.
If you look at the statistics, the fall of marriage rates AND the rise and divorce rates occurred between 1970 and 1990 -- The oldest in my generation were 26 at the time, but were not marrying because that's when the notion of 'waiting until you were established' to get married cropped up (came from our parents as advice, btw). SO, this was the advent of waiting until we were older to marry.
Thing is, a lot of great things came out of this era -- divorce became more accessible, legally speaking, which is great for people who wanted out, but couldn't get out before (for a variety of reasons). It was certainly the rise of women in the workforce and women as white collar and professional workers at that (which is different than the surge in the 1940s of women entering the workforce). And, the definitions of families changed as well, because the social restrictions on cohabitation began to fall away, as well as there being more awareness and openness for people barred from marriage (homosexual couples).
Because of this, our generation has a very different *notion* of marriage and commitment in general. Many of my firends are not married by choice. Why? They don't want to go through a divorce. For them, watching their parents go through one or more divorce was painful, and as such, they seek to avoid divorce by avoiding marriage. They seek cohabitation instead. And many of them are deeply committed to their relationships and their families.
I cannot tell you how many of our friends here are unmarried and with children. It was the same when we traveled through denmark. SO many families there were in committed, secure relationships with children upwards of 15 years old. Parents still together, having been together 20 years or more. . . just not married.
And my friends who are gay and lesbian -- talk about people wiht long term cohabitation commitments!
And then with this, is the very reality that the divorce rates -- for those who choose to get married -- have *dropped* since the last generation (ie, boomers). Between 1990 and 2010, it dropped by 4 percentage points! That's pretty massive. It's still nearly "half of marriages" -- but it's lower than before.
ALl of this would indicate not a lack of commitment on the part of my generation (and my sister's, and the millenials who are now just marriage age), but rather a different perspective on marriage and commitment.
And, we also have the strength to know that it's ok to walk away when you've put in as much effort as *you* could -- that there's no shame in it, honestly.
It doesn't speak about marriage (partiuclarly anyone else's marriage), and it doesn't mean that they lack an ability to work through the hard stuff.
Do those people exist? Yes, they do. I've watched people walk away from marriages "too soon" in my own opinion. But again, I'm not "in it" -- so I can't say, can I?
Here's a report (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/11/18/the-decline-of-marriage-and-rise-of-new-families/) about attitudes around "the decline of marriage."
Of course, I don't think someone should stay in a marriage where they are being abused, physically or mentally.....but I think every resource of help should be explored before walking away from a marriage.
likely, though, what you think about marriage really shouldn't have any bearing on what another person thinks about marriage and commitment, and likewise, you can't really know whether or not "every resource of help" was explored or not. All we can know is that people made the best decision that they could at the time, and sometimes, that means divorce.
SteveinMN
10-2-12, 10:03am
Zoebird, I don't know the whole situation, but it doesn't sound as if they explored getting any help with their problems.
Speaking as someone who went through a divorce, no one except the husband and wife knows the whole situation. And, frankly, sometimes even those two don't know exactly what is going on or why. With introspection (and, generally, with some help), that can be learned. But it is not necessarily true before the split.
I just think some effort should be put into a marriage before throwing it away. These two have been married a very short time.
Maybe some effort was put into it. Maybe a lot. Again, we do not know. In addition, without airing personal dirty laundry, I can tell you that both partners have to be able and willing to work on the problems in the marriage. That is not always possible.
And yes, for many today divorce is easy come, easy go. The marriage vows mean nothing... Which I have only witnessed personally in the younger generation, not in mine, not in my parents, and not in my grandparents, and I have lived in a pretty big world. Commitment meant alot more with these generations than nowadays.
My parents were of probably the last generation in which divorce carried quite a stigma and -- especially for women -- sometimes left one of the partners stuck with no job/no recent marketable skills/children. Sure, there was alimony and child support, but any number of people (women, mostly) could tell you that that was not a steady (or sometimes even adequate) income. Under those circumstances, I would venture that it was easier to put up with bad behavior and make it a "paper" marriage than to dissolve it.
I's probably counsel him to get out now and fast. Starter marriages are often starter for a reason.
To be honest, I would do the same. Like it or not, starter marriages do happen and frankly, it's better to just cut one's losses and get out now rather then decide 10 years, 2 kids, one house, one dog, etc. later.
I know folks who divorced their spouse after over 30 years of marriage, one was a friend and another was my cousin. In both cases, there were very serious issues in the marriage from day one, but they toughed it out in belief that divorce was bad, tried everything they could to save things and in the end decided to get the divorce. Other than having their kids, both regret spending a good chunk of their lives trying to work it out with spouses that were impossible to live with.
Speaking as someone who went through a divorce, no one except the husband and wife knows the whole situation. And, frankly, sometimes even those two don't know exactly what is going on or why. With introspection (and, generally, with some help), that can be learned. But it is not necessarily true before the split.
Wow, Steve, this was certainly true for me. I like what you said....the whole situation can, perhaps, be known by the divorcing couple, but often not until much later. The whole big picture of human emotion and behaviour, influenced by our social values and our relationships with other people...it sure is difficult to say with certainty what might have caused a marriage to thrive and another to fail. I know that my understanding of my marriage and the demise of same has been developing over the years since I have been divorced. I do understand it better; my part, his part, and the part played by circumstances. But at the time, most of that would not have been visible through the fog of anger, uncertainty, and anxiety.
rodeosweetheart
10-5-12, 8:56am
plus 2 to Steve and Leslieann. 15 years after my divorce, I still think about it a lot--should I have left sooner--was there a time I could have turned things around--lots of guilt and blame and anxiety and shame, even in a situation where the textbooks would have said, oh, yes, of course leave this marriage, and lots of damage done by staying as long as I did. Like Leslie, as time goes by, I see more the part that larger forces and circumstances played, and arrive at more peace with the whole thing.
I think that the blaming and the shaming done by outside parties is very unhelpful, and after you have been divorced, you see both the unhelpfulness and the futility of much of what passes for advice and social observation.
Very sad that anyone suffers a bad marriage and probably sad these two young people that Tradd knows ever met, but hey, maybe there are bigger karmic forces at work. Anyway, hopefully both the young people can heal and find peace.
Its unfortunate, but I do think sex enters into things. It makes you forget about how very important some other qualities are.
Its too bad your friend's son didn't realize this a little sooner. But..........its good that he finally came to his senses.
I hope she doesn't try to take too much from him now.
This seems like gossip to me. Who knows the real story?
Wildflower
10-6-12, 4:28pm
This seems like gossip to me. Who knows the real story?
You're right. It is gossip.
I'm not sure why any of us even responded to it, including me.
It was gossip when Tradd first posted about it a few months ago and many called her on it then....
You're right. It is gossip.
I'm not sure why any of us even responded to it, including me.
It was gossip when Tradd first posted about it a few months ago and many called her on it then....
I don't know why I keep getting sucked into these sorts of threads, I would stop listening in real life, for that matter I wouldn't be friends with someone who was so negative about other people all the time.
Zoebird,
That was a fantastic post. Well thought out. Well written. Well done!
Zoebird,
That was a fantastic post. Well thought out. Well written. Well done!
Except for this gratuitous, pointless insult:
The rates are per capita, so it doesn't matter if there are fewer young people than the magical, wonderful, and perfect unicorn-riding boomers.
I stopped reading then and there.
I exited at that point, too. What the hell have I done? No unicorns in my garage.
rodeosweetheart
10-12-12, 3:50pm
I exited at that point, too. What the hell have I done? No unicorns in my garage.
Yes, unfortunately, I had to sell off my unicorn to pay for my son's college tuition.
But as a boomer, it is amazing that I managed to raise him to that age, given our general ineptitude and cluelessness in raising children.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.