View Full Version : SECOND DEBATE: JOE VS RYAN
"NOW YOUR JACK KENNEDY!?"
I love Joe!!!!!!!!!!
And, i loved the moderator. She seemed tough and I like how she asked them about how much of a "man" they are and how they view "women's" issues from a personal perspective. I like her.
Joe did smirk but he did what he needed to do to get the Democratic base excited again. That's what this was about. And he did make better points than Ryan. Ryan was calm and didn't get defensive often but he was feeble with his points.
Float On
10-11-12, 11:23pm
I watched the begining and then a neighbor dropped by to check on me and chat (and ask us to watch her cat for a week)......
I liked the moderator too. And I thought Joe did a much better job than 4 years ago.
iris lily
10-11-12, 11:31pm
This was a more typical debate, no clear winner or loser. Biden strongly pumped his answers sometimes (a plus) but his smirks and mugging were juvenile, especially when talking about Iran and nukes. Guy! Tone that chit down. Inappropriate!
Ryan was earnest and was pretty much what I expected him to be. We don't admire those histrionics in the Midwest ya know.
I will be interested to see how much additional speaking time the moderator, who had as a guest at her wedding Barack Obama, awarded to her side.
freein05
10-11-12, 11:52pm
Time is not a factor. You said Obama got 4 more min than Mit last week. The 4 extra min did not do Obama any good. He could have had an hour more than Mit and he still would of lost.
I think the moderator did a good job much better than Jim did last week.
I felt that Biden did a good job and controlled his "idiosyncrasies". Ryan wasn't as arrogant as I had expected.......but sometimes he seems like a robot, spewing well-rehearsed stuff.
I will sure be glad when all this is over. Who knows what reality is any more?
mtnlaurel
10-12-12, 8:03am
I will be interested to see how much additional speaking time the moderator, who had as a guest at her wedding Barack Obama, awarded to her side.
That wedding was 21 years ago.
From the Washington Post
"That was a reference to a story that circulated in conservative media earlier this week noting that when Raddatz married a Harvard law school student in 1991, one of the wedding guests was her new husband’s fellow Harvard student and future president Barack Obama. Raddatz and her husband, Julius Genachowski, divorced six years later."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/abcs-raddatz-draws-praise-for-moderator-work-in-vice-presidential-debate-some-gop-complaints/2012/10/11/3359ddd2-141b-11e2-9a39-1f5a7f6fe945_story.html
catherine
10-12-12, 8:10am
I will be interested to see how much additional speaking time the moderator, who had as a guest at her wedding Barack Obama, awarded to her side.
I was keeping my eye on the CNN clock that tracked the time each candidate got, and it really seemed very even--much more even than last week.
I enjoyed the debate. They both did pretty well. I love Joe Biden, even though his expressions gave SNL great fodder. Can't wait til Saturday night...
I was impressed with Ryan's ability to maintain composure and be a gentleman in the heat of discussion. I had not seen him talk before and he seems like a sharp man. He was unfortunately vague on some issues around Iran and pull out dates for Afghanistan. He did not ease my mind about supporting more military activity overseas, when maybe we should stop being the global police force. They have tried to boil down their five points plan for the economy to simple verbiage and it has some merit, but it doesn't add up for me. I have yet to hear what tax "loopholes" will be closed to cover the shortfall by the big tax cuts, and suspect that is because they have something up their sleeve.
Malarkey Joe did what Obama should have done by catching some of the Republican's numbers games with taxes and medicare and challenging them. The fact checkers I watched after the debate seemed to think Biden had the more accurate points and information. I sort of wanted to shake him by the shoulders over his goofy smug smile. It did not portray him as a mature leader. I think the weakness of the Democrats so far is that they really don't have a new or better plan for the economy and their lukewarm track record on employment.
I declare Raddatz the winner. She really did a great job and it was good to have some women's issues on the table. I think it is really important to be honest and up front with the American people, and so far the fact checkers are putting Obama out from on this.
DW and I watched the whole thing and our take was that it was fairly predictable. Sounds like most of you were more impressed with the moderator than we were. Both of us thought it was obvious that her background is liberal and her career seems to bear that out (ABC, The New Republic, etc.), but you'll get no argument from us that she was a vast improvement over Jim Lehrer. Paul Ryan seemed to be level headed and well versed. As with Mitt Romney the other night our greatest discomfort came from his positions regarding the military. We both applauded his response regarding his Catholic background and specefically abortion, although I'm not sure how that answer will play with the religious right. Joe Biden did a better job than either of us expected, but our expectations were pretty low. His answers were predictable as was his animation when talking. The big negative for us was all his smirking and huffing. That may play in Scranton, but it doesn't out here. We would prefer the #2 to be a little more mature than that.
Smiles are curious things. They are used for a number of emotions, not just for happy/funny/etc. Sometimes they are just baring the teeth in anger/disbelief. The fact that Biden's smiles disappeared so quickly told me I shouldn't pay attention to them, but rather what he said right afterwards.
I found it curious that republicans thought he was so obnoxious, when I thought Romney was just as obnoxious in how he talked incessantly and didn't stop when the moderator asked him to. I guess like beauty, "obnoxiousness" is in the eye of the beholder. :)
I liked the moderator too. Sure, she is a democrat, I guess, but really, outside of Fox News, which isn't really news and more like The National Enquire on TV, which serious, professional journalist would the right like to have? Are there any well respected conservative journalist out there? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just can't think of one right now. But then, most serious, professional journalist don't 'show' their party and I wouldn't know what they are if it weren't for the rights obsessively pointing it out.
Really? A wedding 21 years ago? Do you think there were any republicans at that wedding? Let's publish the guest list so we can comb it for anyone who might have known someone who had lunch with someone else who we can connect, in any way possible, negatively, to President Obama! Oh, maybe we can blame the failure of that marriage on him too! :~)
Party affiliation of the moderator is apparently way more important to them than to me, I guess. There weren't any trick 'liberal' questions. No 'When did you stop beating your wife' type stuff. I thought the questions were good.
As for the debate, I thought both did well. I didn't think there was any clear winner or loser, and I didn't hear any huge lies. I don't think Ryan can lie as easily as Romney. He may have nut job ideas, some dangerous, but at least he's honest about them.
Joe always wears his emotions/feelings on his sleeves, thus the facial expressions. He would be lousy at poker!
iris lily
10-12-12, 9:59am
Smiles are curious things. They are used for a number of emotions, not just for happy/funny/etc. Sometimes they are just baring the teeth in anger/disbelief. The fact that Biden's smiles disappeared so quickly told me I shouldn't pay attention to them, but rather what he said right afterwards.
I found it curious that republicans thought he was so obnoxious, when I thought Romney was just as obnoxious in how he talked incessantly and didn't stop when the moderator asked him to. I guess like beauty, "obnoxiousness" is in the eye of the beholder. :)
One of the Fox commentators said that he likes Joe Biden a lot, he's one of the nicest men on Capitol Hill. He said that Joe has a nervous smile, that's what was coming through. I might be able to swallow that if Biden had not followed up his smiles/ laughs with frowning and mugging.
Smiles are curious things.
Yes they are. So are cackles and smirks and sighs and huffs and... But constant interruptions when someone else is speaking are not. They are rude and inconsiderate. I have not had the chance to know much about Paul Ryan and so was looking forward to hearing what he had to say. It's a shame he didn't have more chances to finish his thoughts. I've heard Joe Biden for four years so already have a pretty solid base to form an opinion of him. He didn't disappoint. I mean how can you beat quoting Lloyd Bensten (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/biden-ryan-oh-now-jack-kennedy-015910917--election.html)? Joe looked pretty proud of himself for that one.
Joe was obviously under the gun to perform and I thought his smile and cackles were probably nervous reactions. Once he settled into things he calmed down and cackled less. Not exactly leadership behavior, but what he said is the real issue.
mtnlaurel
10-12-12, 10:08am
The debate was everything I wanted it to be and more. I just LOVE Joe Biden though - I am a big fan of his head on style (and lack there of, style that is).
Re: Biden's barely contained laughter during Ryan speaking... I thought that was better than Obama staring down at his paper shaking his head or Gore's know-it-all sighing.
What IS the best facial expression when your opponent is saying things that you absolutely disagree with or when your opponent is not speaking factually?
I thought Ryan did a fine job. It is a shame that he is constrained by the Romney narrative of vagaries, if Ryan were the head of the ticket there would be facts, numbers and specifics to debate.
Ryan's world view is not mine - but if I were a social & fiscal conservative I would be elated at the prospects Ryan is going to provide the GOP in the coming years.
He's smart, he's relateable, he wants to govern (not just poo-poo what the other side proposes but he brings his own solutions to the table).
And he seems to hold true to his conservative values without using RWNJs as a crutch.
I still really haven't heard Obama/Biden put forth what they are going to do differently this coming 4 years to deal with an obstructionist congress.
It may be out there, but it hasn't gotten through to me.
I do hear them loud and clear that they are fighting for the middle class, but I'm not hearing how they are going to assist in the growing of the economy moving forward.
mtnlaurel
10-12-12, 10:31am
Do any of you have thoughts on Ryan's facial expressions while Biden was speaking?
He looked almost teary eyed to me at some points or his eyes seemed watery.
He also had a strange smile at points.
I also found the constant drinking of water distracting, but I guess that's better than a dry throat and your voice cracking.
What I kept imagining through Ryan's mind "Be a team player, be a team player. Boy do I wish I could smoke Joe with my own ideas."
I think it is just a really strange/awkward position to be in... right next to someone going after you tooth and nail.
Do any of you have thoughts on Ryan's facial expressions while Biden was speaking?
He looked almost teary eyed to me at some points or his eyes seemed watery.
I thought he did an admirable job of not responding in kind, keeping the poker face. He was probably teary eyed from biting his lip so hard.
goldensmom
10-12-12, 11:33am
One of the first manners I was taught as a very young child was ‘do not interrupt while someone else is speaking as it is disrespectful, rude, arrogant and ignorant’. I suspect a lot of people are taught that as children but not so many people adhere to it as adults. In my mind, interrupting is unacceptable regardless the person or situation. Okay, there are exceptions such as when your spouse is driving and talking and he doesn’t see the deer coming towards the car then for safety purposes he may be interrupted.
I have thought it has been interesting in the debates of how much perception is based on presentation style with content taking at least a passenger position, if not a backseat.
Though I did enjoy the look on Ryan's face after he said that the stimulus money was ineffective at job creation and Joe pointed out how Ryan had written him a letter requesting stimulus money for job creation.
I have not seen any post debate references to it, but in both debates the Republicans have referred to "borrowing money from China" to pay for our government expenses. China does own some US debt, but the majority is owned domestically.
ApatheticNoMore
10-12-12, 12:48pm
I have not seen any post debate references to it, but in both debates the Republicans have referred to "borrowing money from China" to pay for our government expenses. China does own some US debt, but the majority is owned domestically. The numbers I've seen are that China holds maybe 10% of our US debt.
Where is it coming from lately? Aren't China's debt purchases down? I think they're monetizing it mostly lately. The part that is monetized can be dumped in the bucket "owned domestically", because the Fed is considered domestic ownership.
Where is it coming from lately? Aren't China's debt purchases down? I think they're monetizing it mostly lately. The part that is monetized can be dumped in the bucket "owned domestically", because the Fed is considered domestic ownership.
This is probably a decent explanation. http://www.businessinsider.com/who-owns-us-debt-2011-7?op=1
I found it curious that republicans thought he was so obnoxious, when I thought Romney was just as obnoxious in how he talked incessantly and didn't stop when the moderator asked him to. I guess like beauty, "obnoxiousness" is in the eye of the beholder. :)
I'm a democrat and thought Biden was obnoxious. Very rude and childish too. He could have delivered his responses (which I thought were good) much more effectively without his antics. The issues ARE important afterall. I though Ryan seemed the much more mature and thoughtful person who took the issues seriously. Not that I supported many of his responses and ideals, just though his delivery was better.
Do any of you have thoughts on Ryan's facial expressions while Biden was speaking?
He looked almost teary eyed to me at some points or his eyes seemed watery.
He also had a strange smile at points.
I also found the constant drinking of water distracting, but I guess that's better than a dry throat and your voice cracking.
What I kept imagining through Ryan's mind "Be a team player, be a team player. Boy do I wish I could smoke Joe with my own ideas."
I think it is just a really strange/awkward position to be in... right next to someone going after you tooth and nail.
I thought just the opposite - that he was not only getting extremely angry at Bidens interupptions, but was using all his will power to not respond by smacking him upside the head - which is what I wanted to do and probably would have ;-)!)
rosarugosa
10-12-12, 8:09pm
"I have thought it has been interesting in the debates of how much perception is based on presentation style with content taking at least a passenger position, if not a backseat." - Rogar
Great point, Rogar. I think our culture is such a "cult of personality," and so screen-oriented, that the debates are like some reality-TV show. I've held a theory for several years now that one cannot get elected president without having a nice head of hair.
However, the debates are always held after my bedtime, so I missed them.
. .. I've held a theory for several years now that one cannot get elected president without having a nice head of hair..
ha, rosarugosa, that's also the theory on corporate CEOs according to Dilbert - have to be tall, and have good hair. Amazing how that stereotype seems to play out in the real world.
mtnlaurel
10-13-12, 9:34am
I got a chuckle out of this this morning....
Read the Captions above pix
http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/the-many-gesticulations-of-joe-biden
I loved what Biden had to say and I have no problem with his feistiness, but when I look back at the tape in the cold hard light of day.... he really should have checked his reactionary theatrics by about 60% and it would have been much more effective.
I personally had no problem with Romney being aggressive either. Although it grated on me more because he's not my candidate.
If you can't verbally spar then you shouldn't be in politics and you need to pursue a different line of civic service.
Debates ARE political theater.
I mean how can you beat quoting Lloyd Bensten (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/biden-ryan-oh-now-jack-kennedy-015910917--election.html)? Joe looked pretty proud of himself for that one.
I forgot who was it who said "Mr. Biden is at his most elequent when speaking other peoples' words." Remember when he got caught plagiarizing a Neil Kinnock speech?
I didn't notice Ryan drinking water.
I did.......he did it alot, but that's okay. I don't see a problem with that. Some people just make more saliva...........like Joe. hahaha
The Storyteller
10-16-12, 5:39pm
Pretty much how I saw it...
http://rackjite.com/wp-content/uploads/ryandebate.jpg
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