View Full Version : Who is working toward FI?
fidgiegirl
10-20-12, 5:24pm
It occurred to me that I am not really sure what others' goals are here on the forum.
I'm pretty consistently interested in Financial Independence. When I get distracted from this goal, we make less than good progress toward it. Being on the forums, and now reading MMM Forums as well, helps me keep focused on this goal.
The side benefits of a more balanced life and the community aspects of the forum are wonderful bonuses of continued involvement.
I ask because I notice fewer conversations around the hard money side of the pursuit of FI on the forums since we've moved - and I haven't posted about these questions either - I'm merely observing. So that makes me wonder if fewer people are working toward this as a goal?
So who has FI as a goal or a reason for pursuing the concept of simplicity as they understand it? And if not, what is yours, if you have one at all?
We are at the spot between financial independence and full retirement. I theoretically could retire now, but it would be lean if we had to make it last for 40+ years. What I do have is the ability to quit a situation where I'm asked to compromise my integrity, or deal with a boss who's a psychopath, and that, in and of itself, is incredibly rewarding. On the negative side, I'm not needy or desperate and in my job search, I think I sometimes get rejected just there are so many others out there who WILL deal with the BS because they have to. I'm not willing to be on call 24/7 and bring my laptop/cell on vacation and be available for silly questions that could easily be answered during business hours while I'm off recharging my batteries. I don't say any of this , of course, but I'm sure my confidence is picked up on, and I'm not a cultural fit.
My goal at this point is to get full time employment again for a few years (3-7 I'm guessing) so that I can do something else, or nothing else.
sweetana3
10-20-12, 6:48pm
We are fully retired and FI. Spent decades working on it though. Saved fully 30% or more of our income. Feels very strange to be on this side now.
awakenedsoul
10-20-12, 7:00pm
Yes, that's one of the main reasons I live simply. Unless something changes, I have reached FI. I live very frugally. Last year I spent $20,000. and this year I hope to cut that back to $15,000. or less. I'm learning to make the best use of my time. I do kind of miss working, so I plan to start writing a book. (I used to write for a magazine and really enjoyed it.) Splurged and went to an Oprah event today. On the way home, I decided I wouldn't spend $150. on things like that anymore. I did it as a birthday celebration, but the frugal part of me thinks it was too expensive. I did enjoy it, though. Suze Orman was great. I met a couple of very nice women there, too.
I've noticed the change between the old and new forums as well. I miss money conversations.
Yes, we are pretty heavily invested (no pun intended) in the goal of FI. Whether we'll actually quit work at that point is unclear. We may both work part time indefinitely. Probably DH will work a lot now, and very little in 10 years, whereas I am intending to do less work per week, but for more years. We'll be FI in around 10 years, at the age of 45. Actually just finished doing the quarterly networth calculations and we just crossed the quarter million milestone. Yay us! (No one else I can brag to.)
However things do come up that affect our savings rate. DH went back to school, which was a significant gamble as he was making good money before, but the job wasn't physically sustainable. The gamble seems to have paid off, as he's making more money now, and the job conditions are better, though still not ideal. Traditionally-male blue collar jobs can just be so dangerous and physically taxing, ya know? - Poor guy. So I hope he will retire before me.
I have a super cushy office job, which I mostly like. But I have also decided to take a bit of a pay cut (work less hours) to focus on some new writing opportunities that have come my way. Ideally, the time investment now will pay off in future earnings, though I know making money as a writer is a bit of a pipe dream. But I have to try it. I don't want to go through life regretting things I was too scared to attempt. Worst case scenario I'll just have to work a few extra years part time. No biggie. Best case scenario - I'll be writing in an RV in California in January, which is my FI goal anyhow.
(Edited because someone with ambitions of being a professional writer should know the difference between 'too' and 'to'.) :|(
We are. Our efforts, up until this point haven't yielded massive amounts in savings and investments, but in setting ourselves up in other ways. Some examples:
-I am basically retired. :) I mean that in the sense that I have not and do not intent to work full-time for pay from about age 23 to the forseeable future.
-We have worked to severely limit debt in the first place, most recently getting Zach through school, while supporting a wife and 5 kids, with no student loan debt, but also not having car payments, not using credit cards, etc.
-We have worked to severely limit our expenses by combining households with my Dad, DIYing most things, etc. We don't have a mortgage or rent, for example.
-Pursuing careers with flexibility. Zach's original profession gave us 6 months off at a time. His new profession will eventually allow him to make a good income on his own terms, a la Mr Money Moustache.
What we need to work on next is building up the EF and then onto the major saving, but there is a good base in place now with the lack of debt, low expenses and a well chosen profession. We are also accustomed to living on a small amount of money, which should help. Zach turned 30 a week ago, so he's still got youth on his side, too.
Hi fidgiegirl,
I almost responded to your MMM post earlier today :-) I LOVE LOVE LOVE Mr. Money Mustache. I've been reading his blog since the beginning, but just recently joined the MMM forum and made a few posts. I definitely find this forum more friendly and well-rounded. While Financial Independence is our goal, it's not our primary focus. I've been home with our kids for 8 years, so in some ways I'm enjoying semi-retirement now. I will probably have to work longer in the future than I would have had I continued to work when my children were born, but it was worth it and continues to be worth it to our whole family. We're always looking for ways to spend less and save more. This week, we sold our second car, which was an exciting step. Like you, we're about to renovate our old bungalow, add a second bathroom and do some energy efficient upgrades.
My blog is http://margieslittlecorneroftheworld.blogspot.com/
I really don't see myself reaching FI, for two reasons. One, my dh is not on board with the idea. This looks like something a couple would really have to work together on to be successful.
Two, I have debt, but I can't see myself changing my lifestyle to get another job to pay it off quickly. I want to have the amount of free time I have now, working part-time and seasonal jobs and paying off my debt gradually, while pursuing my personal interests. I don't mind not having money. I just want to pursue a simple life for other reasons, like learning essential living skills, enjoying nature, and having free time to just think about things.
SteveinMN
10-20-12, 8:26pm
When it became obvious that I was dangerously burned out at work, I cycled through my options. All of them had me making less than I was making -- sometimes a lot less. But I had to get out. It was a little early to retire, but I started looking at Web resources on early retirement and this site came up. Here is a bunch of people and families living full happy lives without being on the debt treadmill. The more I read, the more convinced I was that my wife and I could get by on her income -- at least short-term -- so I decided to start my own business and not worry that income might be scarce for a while.
We are planning for retirement, but that is several years away for my wife (she has already "chosen" the year). The timing of my leaving work and not having an income is postponing FI somewhat. But we have been working on getting our retirement incomes in place. And we are working to get our expenses to a level such that our expected retirement income will be more than sufficient to cover those expenses. We're planning on convergence and FI and retirement all at once. ;)
I would say, for me, this site is a source of education and inspiration and friendship more than anything else. We are working toward FI, but it is going to be a slower process for us.
Blackdog Lin
10-20-12, 9:06pm
I too miss the emphasis that our old board seemed to have on financial matters and FI. This (old) board was the one single reason we are out of debt today. I don't say this lightly. "I wouldn't be financially where we are today if not for the Simple Living forum." It's that simple. (didn't intend to make a pun. :) ) But it is too true, for us.
I retired recently with what I am sure most would consider way too little in the way of retirement savings. But there you go and here I am: I am now FI. Fixed income here I come. (oh shoot, another pun. Not financially independent, but fixed income.) But all I've learned on here, and continue to learn, makes me feel empowered, that I/we can live a full and happy life while living lower on the food chain. Again, thanks to this forum.
I worry about inflation. Then I don't worry, really, knowing that we can cut back even more and still have a happy fulfilling life.
Shoot, I think I'm not explaining this well.
We are sort of in FI limbo at the moment. We have enough assets -- including our sky-high Beijing apartment and a very robust pot of savings and retirement investments -- that if our job or family situation were to change dramatically we could probably stop working for money and be fine for the rest of our lives. But we could not sustain our current lifestyle in Beijing without both incomes, so it would mean selling this apartment and leaving Beijing, most likely moving either to where my inlaws live (something that neither DH nor I are terribly keen on, but that may be necessary as my inlaws health situation evolves) or back to the US, mostly likely to the Seattle area where my family is (though we'd likely move to a less expensive suburb as housing prices in Seattle would make getting by on our stash alone difficult. For now, neither DH nor I are quite ready to make that change, though as our net worth continues to rise I ask myself more and more frequently whether the time has come. For now, we both have good jobs with good salaries and benefits that we enjoy and want to keep doing, at least for a few more years.
One big piece that is increasingly challenging is schooling for our kids. DS will start middle school next year, and we have decided we can't keep him in the school our kids currently attend -- it has been ok for the elementary years, but the middle school program is weak (no proper science labs and other issues that are of major concern, since he is really math/science focused). I need to start investigating other options, but already know that most of the good schools are out of our price range. I am basically preparing to shop my kids around and see if anyone will cut us a deal -- they both do very well on standardized tests, so would be an asset to any school (DS was top of his grade last year, 99th percentile for math and 96 for reading, which I think was artificially low because he told me he was confused by the teacher's instructions and spaced out for much of the test period (first time taking standardized test)). Whether or not we stay long term really depends a lot on how this piece fits into the overall puzzle. The strongest schools here typically offer the IB program, at a cost of around $30,000/year/kid. Yeah, I know, it's crazy. Those schools are basically filled with kids whose parents work for either one of the Embassies or for multinationals that cover the full cost, so they can basically charge what they like. DH does get a schooling allowance from his employer, but it is only $10k/year/kid. So if we move the kids to one of the better schools and can't get a significant tuition discount, I'd pretty much be working to cover their school fees. Whereas we could move back to the Seattle area and move to an area served by one of the many public schools that offer the IB basically for free. Plus if we move back we also re-establish state residency, which means we have lower cost options for college (if we stay in China they will need to pay out-of-state tuition rates if they decide to go to a WA state school).
The other big unknown is what will happen with the property market here in Beijing. If we sold now, we would walk away with a nice, juicy profit -- our apartment has more than doubled in value in the 3.5 years we have owned it. We love the apartment, but that cash would set us up nicely elsewhere.
So, while we figure out what to do we are continuing to invest as much as we can in our retirement and college savings accounts, while keeping a nice robust cash stash that could fund a major transition. DH will be 55 in February, which means if he were to leave his current job he could tap into his retirement fund if we needed to. We probably wouldn't, but that is a nice backup to have. Neither of us is averse to continuing to work if we leave our current positions, but we may need to change fields or downgrade a bit from current salaries/roles.
And part of me wants to take a year off and do a massive road trip with the kids -- like RVing through the US to visit all fifty states, or visiting every country in Eurasia or South America, or moving to Costa Rica and learning to surf and scuba dive. Mid-life crisis of sorts.
lhamo
And part of me wants to take a year off and do a massive road trip with the kids -- like RVing through the US to visit all fifty states, or visiting every country in Eurasia or South America, or moving to Costa Rica and learning to surf and scuba dive. Mid-life crisis of sorts.
lhamo
LOL. I know I don't really get a vote, but I vote for this! How awesome would that be. I am envious of your options Lhamo! Someday...
Blackdog Lin, I have this website to thank for my life too. I found this place when I was just a pup and you all have given me more than I could ever repay. My life would have been very different if I didn't have all of you to raise me right. :)
Hmm, I wonder if it has not much to do with the board version one or two but the overall economic tone. I honestly was planning on working towards F1 when my kids were pretty much on their own however the low income I have has shifted my focus to survival and staying out of debt as much as possible. I still credit this board mightily for keeping me in a decent frame of mind when it all gets super crappy, just the idea that some people are working towards F1 gives me some hope.
My goal has shifted more towards changing work a lot when i get past 60. Probably still working but as much as I complain there are so many things I love about my work. There are many options as I see it in the non-profit kinda realm to do jobs that are not full time and soul sucking but that you get to do more interesting things compared to a part time job at a retail or fast food place.
awakenedsoul
10-20-12, 9:54pm
I would love to see more financial posts again. When I was a lurker, I always went right to the financial section of this board. It's so fascinating to me to hear how people spend their money.
The living simple philosophy definitely has helped me focus our savings & spending plan. It's helped make it so much easier to manage upheavals. Or those random surprises when my husband says, "Hey Honey, Do we have $10K for X?" =0
It's only been in the last couple of months that I've realized the wealth of financial knowledge the posters on this forum have...which leads me off to the financial board to post a question of my own :)
Yes, agreed it was a lot of what I read on this board that has kept me on track and enabled me to retire 3 years ago at 62.
A lean retirement yes, but retirement non the less and so enjoying not going to work very day.
As above you are all so right living way down on the food chain can really make for a happier life...
Blackdog Lin------- I do know what you are saying about the worrying, my only worry is that at some point I will not be able to
cut back anymore then I have without becoming unfulfilled and unhappy.
But, so far I have not seen that........
I'm also in survival mode.
10 years ago I was an active trader,so I enjoyed posting regularly on the personal finance forum.I've become untrusting of the markets in recent years.
ApatheticNoMore
10-21-12, 12:40am
I've never thought of living off interest alone because interest rates are near zero (often below 1%). As in if I had a million dollars I could live below the poverty line. I have thought of accumulating a huge pile for early retirement and just burn down principal. But I worry about health insurance being a major expense if I wasn't working for The Man. Not right now, because look I'm under 40, I don't have preexistings, I'm basically pretty healthy as far as I know (I actually have a brain tumor growing right now I don't know about :~)). But I'm going to get older right, what is the health insurance bill going to look like when I'm in my 50s, in my 60s before medicare kicks in?
At this point I just feel I have to save a significant chunk of my income period to prepare for when they raise the age of collection of Social Security until 70 or something because no way, you know. No way I could stay in the job market that long. I have quite a bit of money for my age (although no of course not enough to retire) and honestly I'm not entirely sure what exactly it is good for, just piling up for retirement I guess, an emergency fund for sure, I'd be ok if I lost my job tommorow (I sometimes want to :)).
Just a quick note to add I also really miss the more financially oriented posts. In my own case, I have held back from posting here about some major financial milestones met in recent months because it feels insensitive given how so many here are struggling -- I know most friends here would be happy for me, but still I don't want to appear to be gloating or bragging. I do realize how lucky we are to have been in the right place at the right time in terms of investments (we only really started maxing out retirement accounts in 2008, when I got my new job, and we didn't have to sell anything during the crash. We also hit EXACTLY the right moment to buy in the local property market, and had cash reserves to make a huge downpayment so our mortgage is doable).
I really REALLY enjoy helping people analyze their budget, so I'd love to see more posts of that nature. That's one reason I am also spending more time over at the MMM forums. We're a bit kinder/gentler here, and not so one-track-minded on cutting spending to the bone (I think most of us here are pretty die hard "are you getting value for your life energy" in terms of our approach. Heck -- you all told me to go ahead and but this crazy apartment so thank you for that!).
lhamo
Where are we?
I would say that my first focus is on simple living (which includes looking at simplicity as an idea, frugality as a part of that process, and also minimalism). My next focus is on financial independence/security, which we are actively creating by having our own businesses (high risk method, but it's working for us!) and also paying down the remaining (school) debt. Once that's gone, we'll be debt free. We are looking at moving into a simple cash-only home economy.
By having a business, I know that I will eventually have a good deal of passive income. I plan on continuing ownership of several of them, and then franchising the others, which allows us to have long-term income. Several of my mentors in this field have yoga studios/wellness centers that have been around for more than 30 years. When they opened them, they were working like me -- several classes a week plus workshops and training teachers to work with them. Now, they are working like retirees -- essentially working when they want, but still running the business. Some hired manager to do that, too.
Honestly, it creates a great lifestyle. Even with how I am working now, our lifestyle is *really good* and comfortable. Paying off the student loan debt is still a big deal toward FI, but everything else is great. :)
Simplemind
10-21-12, 2:02am
I wouldn't be where I am today without living simply. I started 20 years ago because I had to and realized how much better I felt with less. After things began to even out financially I stayed with the lifestyle. These boards have been validating for me. I have taken a lot of crap through the years for living what others saw as a smaller life. It isn't smaller it is richer. I would be exhausted if I was running around constantly consuming and chasing the latest thing. I was finally able to take early retirement from a job that had been twisting me inside out for years. Even though I am not getting the full retirement I could have had by staying two more years it was worth it to go. By living simply I was able to save 50% of my earnings for the past 10 years and invested it well. That more than made up for the 16% penalty for leaving early.
I learned a lot from the earlier board postings and took a lot of advise to heart. It was great to see the struggles turn into success stories. I feel incredibly blessed to have this community to compare notes with. I'm here to say that it can be done. I can't tell you how incredible FI feels.
I also found this board very validating AND I was able to work through my emotional stuff with my student loans until I got "right" with it, and now I'm doing very well with the whole thing. :) I mean, still (and was always) paying it down, but now I feel like the end is near with that, and the freedom is coming!
But the validation was important for me in other ways too. It is strange being a minimalist in a 'maximalist' world. It's nice to hear how others live simply, downsize, and even live minimally. To know that I'm not crazy. :D
When my job was draining my will to live, FI was my primary focus. DH and I both made big changes, and the support here was invaluable before, during, and after those changes. While in our industry jobs, we saved a lot, which helped us when I quit to stay home with DD while he was still finishing his dissertation. He is in a lower-income position now and we are not saving as much, and with low interest rates, what we had saved is not doing much either. We also have college to save for in addition to retirement. But he switched to his lifelong dream dareer, or at least the closest to it that he could get in a place we wanted to live (another choice we made), and our lives are much less stressful than they were. Anyway, to answer the question, FI is no longer our primary focus as our current work and lifestyle is working for us.
rosarugosa
10-21-12, 11:59am
This is an excellent, thought-provoking thread. I would say that DH and I were a couple of mindless knuckleheads from a financial standpoint until late 2007. We never really spent more than we had, but we spent every last cent that we did have. In 2007, we started to realize that DH’s job might not be secure, plus we had known for a long time that he loathed his job. We also had a series of minor financial “catastrophes” in a relatively short period of time – all told, about $6000. We scrambled a bit and used our HELOC to cover them, but it was an “aha moment” for me. We were in our late forties and had no savings cushion, and were unprepared for even the smallest of unpleasant financial surprises, and that was when we started to turn things around a bit.
Five years later, we have paid off the mortgage and have no debt at all, DH is working at a pleasant seasonal job that isn’t eating him alive; we have cut WAY back on the frivolous spending (although I don’t think I’ll ever be a total minimalist). We are probably happier than we’ve ever been because we are giving a lot more thought to the choices we make in life.
So I don’t see myself retiring before age 65, because we are very dependent on my income and benefits. But I like my job, so this isn’t a tragedy. If we had started thinking this way in our twenties, we probably could have both retired early, but we can’t change the past.
As someone has already pointed out, balance in life is important, and we’re unwilling to live with the totally focused MMM plan (although I love that blog and it gives me lots of excellent food for thought). I do find this forum a bit more of a community with a more balanced focus, and I really enjoy the interactions I have here.
I think most of it comes down to a realization that the many choices we make every day have repercussions. For example, we’re eating out a lot less, but I’ve been tracking the eating out expenditures for the year and we’re at almost $2000. to my great surprise. And we’re going to fall about $2000. short of my savings goal for the year. So it’s great to have this awareness, and see where it would be possible to exercise more discipline, or to at least understand the implications if we do not.
I think one of the things about financial topics/budget analysis, is that it is uncomfortable to share too much personal financial information.
catherine
10-21-12, 2:42pm
Well, this thread has also given me pause...
It made me wonder how we define financial independence, and how we define "retirement."
I would definitely like to be financially independent. To me that means not being beholden to anyone or any institution for the money I need. However, that is a bit of an illusion because we are all interdependent, and "independence" is a relative term. If we want to continue to be financially independent, we trust that the institutions supporting our assets are going to be solvent at the rate that we've predicted.
It does not mean the goal of financial independence has to be retirement. I take issue with the way most people talk about retirement, and I just noticed yesterday that the ERE blogger, Jacob Lund Fisker, also takes issue with it. He said in his latest blog post (http://earlyretirementextreme.com/the-biggest-blogging-mistake-i-ever-made.html)that the biggest mistake he made was calling the blog Early Retirement Extreme. His definition of retirement is broader than the narrow "work, save, stop working as early as possible" In fact, he draws analogies between his idea of retirement and permaculture:
ERE is similar to permaculture because they both use systems thinking. ERE is built directly on systems theory (mainly from operations research) but most people are more familiar with permaculture which also has a systems thinking foundation. Therefore I am I going to use permaculture as an analogy.
In permaculture, one tries to understand how different plant and animal species interrelate with the goal of creating an arrangement with the highest possible production using the least amount of effort. The idea is to replace doing with thinking. Permaculture is brain-intensive rather than pesticide and fertilizer intensitive. You locate one plant (your job) close to a second beneficial plant (your home) which automatically fertilizes the first so you save on fertilizer (transport). You arrange plants (things you do) to minimize evaporation (wasting) so you no longer have to water them (spend). Eventually, your life will be so optimally designed and arranged in such a way so as to get paid for participating in your hobbies, get free food (from the garden) and exercise and eliminate unhealthy sideeffects like illness and stress.
I have been so fascinated with the idea that the Lord's Prayer asks for our DAILY bread. It doesn't say, Give us this day 6% interest on our retirement portfolio.
So, in answer to the question, I think my ultimate goal is to arrange my life in such a way that i can sustain a balance of income and outgo, with the most enjoyment and the least effort/stress. If I'm doing that until the day I die, I'll be a happy woman.
It's funny, because DH and I talked about it, and we actually "feel" retired. Is that strange?
We both are doing what we love. DH is helping with the business (but enjoys that), and working on his film (his dream job stuff). I am doing what I absolutely adore, and there's nothing about this work that I dont' love.
I've finally reached the point, too, where I can actually work less because systems are in place (accounting systems, booking systems, other people teaching classes, the business is established, systems for drawing in new clients and marketing, etc.) Yes, I'm still working many hours, but my life feels really balanced these days.
Over time, I know that I will have spurts of working more which set me up to work less. It's like planting and harvesting seasons verses growing and fallow seasons (winter) -- to continue the permaculture analogy. I could definitely see myself doing this forever. That's the plan actually.
I was FI in my mid 40's and planned to quit working when I was 49, but my old boss asked me to stay another 6 months in order for an easy transition. So for 6 months I worked till noon and then left for the golf club. I havn't worked for the last 5 years and its been great. My wife and I have traveled and have done pretty much whatever we wanted. There is no more stress in our life and we have plenty to do. Our days are full.
We did start saving and investing early to make it happen. I have always had a good paying job and was wiling to risk a portion of it in various investments. So now I'm at the point that even with no job I can do pretty much whatever I want. Some of my hobbies are expensive though, $3,000 a month or so, but I would give them up before I went back to work.
I have been so fascinated with the idea that the Lord's Prayer asks for our DAILY bread. It doesn't say, Give us this day 6% interest on our retirement portfolio.
I love this. That statement could be a whole thread in itself. Our family is part of the Franciscan tradition, which is big on accepting the gifts that are given to you each and everyday without excessive worry about the future. Francis saw God as The Great Almsgiver.
Like Zoebird, we feel retired already in a way because we are doing what we love and have had a ton of flexibility in our lives. We've taken our kids on extended roadtrips, had months and months of time together hanging out, working on stuff around the house, napping in the middle of the day, going to school, etc. Zach has a lot of fun at his job and there is so much potential for flexibility that it doesn't feel limiting at all.
Originally posted by Catherine.
I have been so fascinated with the idea that the Lord's Prayer asks for our DAILY bread. It doesn't say, Give us this day 6% interest on our retirement portfolio.
So, in answer to the question, I think my ultimate goal is to arrange my life in such a way that i can sustain a balance of income and outgo, with the most enjoyment and the least effort/stress. If I'm doing that until the day I die, I'll be a happy woman.Bingo! Plus one! Ditto! All that jazz! :)
Hmm, I wonder if it has not much to do with the board version one or two but the overall economic tone. I honestly was planning on working towards F1 when my kids were pretty much on their own however the low income I have has shifted my focus to survival and staying out of debt as much as possible. I still credit this board mightily for keeping me in a decent frame of mind when it all gets super crappy, just the idea that some people are working towards F1 gives me some hope.
.
I think that is a very good possibility. I know that for us, we have been living in survival mode for a while. Income loss for a year (me), underemployment now (me) and new job with massive pay cut (DH) has resulted in us taking our focus off building FI and onto survival and doing what little we can to help our son minimize his student loan debt for college.
My husband and I are working towards FI, however, I consider some degree of sustainability to be a part of that. I also love the idea of having residual income, which on a homestead can come from many forms (tree farm, pine straw, leasing areas for folks who have a lack of land for their horses to graze). These are small examples that my FIL has successfully used over the years. And then, there's the lessening of monthly expenses by growing your own fruits, vegetables, sugar cane, wine, eggs. One thing that I can appreciate in my in laws, is knowing what has worked for them - and what hasn't. Our soil has a sandy element for the region, as it's nearby a large river basin. So, there's particular types of fruit or pecan trees, etc. that they've attempted over the years that either did not perform well - or that were just too challenging to have a crop from because certain animals (no matter what they did) found a way to attack the harvest. And then, there's certain types of trees that were bearing that I had never thought of, and would never know what to do with that type of fruit (because I had never heard of them before).
It's a little nice to not be the guinea pig with things, and then also bring a fresh eye to try different things that maybe others have never thought of attempting, because they've just lived out there for so long.
In terms of income, husband will have a pension. If we were able to get to the point that we could live in shed cabin while constructing, we would/will be mortgage free on our larger build (which we're a bit settled on an approx 1000 sqft 3 bedroom cottage but want to make sure it's constructed for our elder years with wheelchair access, etc. (since I have a chronic iillness, as it is).
My grandparents were completely FI at a younger than average age, after grandfather's retirement in his 50's. They sold their suburban house (that was long paid off) and purchased 5 acres with a modular home for less than 1/2 the cost of their proceeds. They conservatively invested the difference. They lived modestly yet very comfortably on the interest from that plus their regular savings coupled with their monthly small pension, military disability, and social security.
We have a lot of variables, as we do not know exactly what husband will be doing after he retires from the military. So, our goal at this point is to continue on with paying off all debt, completing that plus emergency savings by retirement. We already have electric, shed cabin (eventual workshop) on property, and the area where we would build is completely clear of trees, level land, for construction when we're ready.
fidgiegirl
10-21-12, 8:19pm
Everyone, thanks for all your thoughts. It is so interesting to see what people's goals are and have been.
Catherine, thanks for sharing what Jacob of ERE wrote. It really struck something for me. I have puzzled over what would happen if I DID leave paid employment. With no children currently, and who knows on that front for the future, I have thought about how I truly would spend my days. I just love the comparison to permaculture and good design. In fact, I feel like that's how my life is going right now, even if it still involves paid employment. I went for a run this morning and was truly counting all my blessings - the choices I/we have made are bearing fruit now, even if it sometimes sucked to make them at the time.
rosarugosa
10-21-12, 8:51pm
Catherine, I really liked that systems analogy too.
I guess I'm working towards being able to eventually leave my corp job, probably not before age 65, and to remain financially secure after leaving that job. In the meantime, I would like to enable DH to keep working in his pleasant, semi-retired type of job, and to do some repairs and improvements on our house with an eye toward minimizing some of our more high-maintenance scenarios for the future. I'm realizing that as I get older, I'm not so enthusiastic about spending all my free time on the relentless drudgery I so enjoyed in my younger years! I would rather spend more time walking in the woods and less time weeding and painting windows.
I expect to be able to retire from paid employment at the age of 61. Which is not bad considering that I started from scratch ($0cash, $0 assets, $0 debt) at age 40 with 4 kids in tow. I have done that, like many of you, by living frugally, simply, joyfully.
I am currently saving 9% of my income for retirement (plus there will be a pension) and supporting 3 teens. Our current financial focus is on minimizing college costs.
gimmethesimplelife
10-22-12, 10:48am
Until very recently, the idea of being FI has seemed so impossible and so remote to me it was like a nice dream. For me, this has unitl now been about getting rid of things in my life that don't work well for me and also getting credit card balances down and having something in savings. Then someone close to my family passed on and sometime not too far off I will be getting some money from this -pretty much unexpected, too, and I am still a bit floored by this. It is not like I will never have to work again but it doesn mean my credit cards can be retired and all that debt will poof - be gone - and I will have something in savings for real. This just frees me up so much and allows me to take some risk and try being self employed and also makes me feel like FI may not just be a pipedream for me.
awakenedsoul
10-22-12, 1:21pm
Until very recently, the idea of being FI has seemed so impossible and so remote to me it was like a nice dream. For me, this has unitl now been about getting rid of things in my life that don't work well for me and also getting credit card balances down and having something in savings. Then someone close to my family passed on and sometime not too far off I will be getting some money from this -pretty much unexpected, too, and I am still a bit floored by this. It is not like I will never have to work again but it doesn mean my credit cards can be retired and all that debt will poof - be gone - and I will have something in savings for real. This just frees me up so much and allows me to take some risk and try being self employed and also makes me feel like FI may not just be a pipedream for me.
I just saw Suze Orman at Oprah's event on Saturday. She was saying how when you live beneath your means, all kinds of things open up for you. It can happen really fast! For me, the main thing has been to not take on any more debt. It's so much easier to add to savings now. What a difference not having those interest payments makes!
So much inspiration here...
when you live beneath your means, all kinds of things open up for you. This is so true; everyday I marvel at how little we really need to have a contented life.
I also LOVE the permaculture analogy.
We don't have a definitive plan, mostly because life right now is so comfortable. We would both like to "work" less hours per week though within a few years. And then retire. For now...just socking the money away and keeping expenses down is the plan.
jennipurrr
10-22-12, 9:55pm
I definitely am one of those people who would not be where I am financially without these boards...I think I came here around 2004, having just married DH who brought with him about $100,000 debt. I can't believe its been 8 years, but we are on our way...got through the debt, buy only with cash now, and are working on the mortgage and savings. I think we have been moving more slowly than some of the folks over in the MMM camp (love that blog though), but we've been doing it on our terms. We both did the corporate thing for a bit after college but it was the thoughts here that made us move back to my hometown and both take jobs at a university. We couldn't be happier even though we swapped some earning power for that.
I'm not sure what we'll do when we achieve FI. I mentioned in a recent post I am super happy in my new position at work, so no plans to leave any time soon. I guess it will be great decision to get to make one day.
shadowmoss
10-23-12, 9:44am
Sometime around the first of the year I will finally be debt free, depending on when the house sells. Findng this forum, or the original version which was just a list of the conversations with no subject division, around 2000-2001(?) started the process. For a long time every decision I made to save money and downsize backfired and I went further away from the goal. I've spent 2 years working in Honduras where my income is tax free to finally make the progress I have. YMOL, this forum, and now Mr. Moneymustache are helping me stay focused. Because, you know, getting debt free is only the 1st step. Then I have to actually save some money to retire on.
I expect to be able to retire from paid employment at the age of 61. Which is not bad considering that I started from scratch ($0cash, $0 assets, $0 debt) at age 40 with 4 kids in tow. I have done that, like many of you, by living frugally, simply, joyfully.
I am currently saving 9% of my income for retirement (plus there will be a pension) and supporting 3 teens. Our current financial focus is on minimizing college costs.
Fawn, as one single mom to another (although I only had one, and he's out of the house now) you are one of my personal heros!
This group is the reason I have the level of financial sucess that I have. I started hanging out here 12 years ago when ds was in diapers, we were struggling to buy a business and living on $18,000 a year. I never would have learned how possible FI is without everyones help.
FI is definitely our main goal. One we hope to achieve in the next 5-8 years. Once our house sells, we'll be able to pay off our business and get down and dirty working towards saving some serious cash for retirement.
Frankly with the economy the way it is, we've been spending more time maintaining finacially than we have moving forward. We spend a lot of time contemplating the future, thinking of ways to be more self-sustaining, considering part-time work, and stockpiling non perishables.
I feel like the days of being confident about saving a specific amount of money, investing it safely and feeling confident that it will see me through the remainder of my life are ending. For us, its about finding ways to rely less on actual cash. We'll never decided to go completely off grid but the more we can learn to do for ourselves, the sooner we will reach FI3 and the more secure we can feel about our future.
I must add that I too miss the money talk on this site. We used to do a lot to help newbies cut costs and to celebrate the sucess of those who were making accomplishments no matter how big or small. We need to find a way to get back to that as a group.
Fawn, as one single mom to another (although I only had one, and he's out of the house now) you are one of my personal heros!
Thank you.
One of the things I love about voluntary simplicity is that it supports you whatever your life situation and goals.
I also miss the FI disscussions as they were the thing that actually made me realize that I could make my "take a few years off work so I can do some other stuff while I'm young" thing and turn it into full time retirement at the ripe old age of 42. Until I found these boards that concept never even entered into my thinking. And while my personal FI needs are fairly modest by most peoples standands, it's "enough" for me and I'm pretty happy with my choice.
dado potato
10-25-12, 6:29pm
I hit FI around age 50, due to some good fortune and some frugal choices made from age 18-50. It's FI on the basis of living quite simply (not very high on the hog) on 2 defined-benefit pensions. We live 90 miles from the nearest Wal-Mart, in a town with just 2 traffic lights. Inflation keeps creeping (or galloping, in the case of the premiums for health insurance), and I have tried to design a portfolio that would pay increasing income as the CPI and commodity prices go up. And up.
I am happy to say there is a surplus practically every month. Being a Grandpa, I am making contributions with the surplus to 529 College Savings Plans for all the epsilons. And at the end of the year, we will probably make a gift to Heifer International and this good ol' forum.
Frugalifec
10-25-12, 9:09pm
The goal here is to maintain FI. I owe most of it to reading YMOYL. The big moment was the realization that FI was a possibility. It's so nice to come here and be around like minded people.
[QUOTE=Frugalifec;108294]The goal here is to maintain FI. I owe most of it to reading YMOYL. The big moment was the realization that FI was a possibility. It's so nice to come here and be around like minded people.[/QUROTE]
Reading YMOYL was a turning point for me. Oct 23rd marks my 10th anniversary of early retirement (refirement). I retired at age 53.
Birchwood
10-25-12, 10:17pm
We realized we are FI at 61. It took 31 years of frugality and simple living. When we asked opinions on an Early retirement website, if we can make it, most were surprised why we are asking that question given the stated asset and yearly expected expenses.
As important as the amount of asset, is how much one is going to live on. If you are frugal, it can go a long way.
Spartana
10-25-12, 11:18pm
We realized we are FI at 61. It took 31 years of frugality and simple living. When we asked opinions on an Early retirement website, if we can make it, most were surprised why we are asking that question given the stated asset and yearly expected expenses.
As important as the amount of asset, is how much one is going to live on. If you are frugal, it can go a long way.
I use to visit some of the early retirement websites and I found that there were so many widely different views on how much one needs to be FI and/or retire. At one end was the idea that "you've got to be rich with millions stashed away" in order to be considered FI or to retire early, where as at the opposite end were very frugal people who only felt they needed a tiny amount of money and assets. Many of the latter people seemed more willing to live simply and downsize or find alternative ways of living so they could become FI sooner and/or retire younger. One thing I do miss about the old financial disscussions we had here was learning about the very different amounts of money each person felt they needed to become FI (and retire if that was their goal). Also what people did to become FI, and how they wanted to live when retired. It was always very fancinating and informative to me as it was all so different and often very innovative.
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