Selling and moving:Is this financially wise?

[awakenedsoul]

I've been thinking of putting my tiny house on the market and moving. I'm looking at the pros and cons. My house is paid off, and probably worth around $150,000. (Maybe less.) I live in CA, so my property taxes were $1,400 this year. I am able to live very frugally here. I have put in an orchard and vegetable garden, and my utilities are low.

The negatives: I'm next door to a large group of people who party and drink excessively. They have so many people over at once that it feels like I'm next to a football stadium. I've tried everything, but have realized that they are not going to change. It's like being in an abusive marriage. I have to get out.

Unless something changes, I have enough money set aside for retirement. I would like to find another tiny house, maybe in Oregon or Washington. After this experience, my main concern is a safe neighborhood with people who are quiet and considerate of others.

What would you do?

[herisf]

Move - but then, I just did move and for much the same reason. I have an 864 SF cottage that's in the middle of the town. It started off very quiet, but then a couple of large apartment complexes went up near the fairgrounds, which means they primarily use my street to get in/out of the area. It's become much more noisy at night & on weekends, lots more sirens going by. I moved out of town to a larger place (1600 SF) w/ a view and a garage. It's much quieter and my dogs love the yard. Like you my cottage is paid for, so I'm currently renting it out - I'll probably sell it in a couple of years when the market is better.

Just be aware that if you do move to a different state, your costs may not change much. I used to live in CA, and find the living costs to be pretty close to CA where I now live in WA. Food costs are fairly high, as is cost of living in general (I'm fairly rural, so no competition).

[sweetana3]

You can never count on having perfect and considerate neighbors, even living in the country.

After visiting CA, I would really research the other places before making the jump. I loved the climate and growing season and having property taxes capped is a great benefit for retirement.

[herbgeek]

I second that you can get inconsiderate neighbors even in the country. We moved here on 3 acres, and there was lots of room between us and any neighbors. Little did I know, that several years down the road, the lot diagonally across the road would get permission to sub divide, and where I used to see woods out front, I now see a huge house. The builder lined up their driveway with ours, so we constantly have them and their guests turning in our driveway and running over my plants. There is constant noise from motorized things: leaf blowers, mower, motorized children's toys as well as screaming from a couple of the younger kids as well as small children in the road. The SAH mother is never present with them. The only good thing is that the mom is not a nice person, and has alienated everyone in the neighborhood and apparently many of her friends, because they have far fewer disruptive parties than in the past (ie guests blocking my driveway, late night parties).

[SteveinMN]

The negatives: I'm next door to a large group of people who party and drink excessively. They have so many people over at once that it feels like I'm next to a football stadium. I've tried everything, but have realized that they are not going to change.
There are laws about too much noise and too much drinking. Does "tried everything" include checking noise and similar ordinances in your community? And if these people are bothering you, they're likely bothering your other neighbors. Can you enlist their help in reining in this group?

[ApatheticNoMore]

I guess you could do full sound insulation on your house ...

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks for all the replies. Both sides of neighbors are a problem. Our homes are REALLY close together. They work together, with all of their family members, in a group. I took one side to court for threatening an animal, violation of a noise ordinance, and harrasment. I proved my case, but didn't win any money. The judge moved us from Small Claims to criminal court. He put a stop to their partying, but the other side is out of control. I turned the other side in to Building and Safety and they demo'd four free standing structures that they had built without permits. They also made them put in proper plumbing and they can't have a family living in the garage anymore. You get the picture...My neighbors across the street were upset about it, too, but they lost their home. The new neighbors are nice, but of the same culture.

Financially I like the low property taxes, but emotionally I know I've got to get out. There are drug problems here, as well. This was a starter home, and what I could afford. I bought it for $89,500 in 1998. At least I would still make a profit, not to mention living here rent free for 15 years...I'm thinking maybe I can find something in the mountains with more privacy. I found stunning cabin in Frazier Park for $120,00, and it included the lot next door. I also think my parents might consider investing with me, since it would be a way to protect their money, and they know I live super frugally.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Hi Awakened Soul.....Yeah this is a hard one. The little place you have sounds perfect except for this one big glaring thing. I am wondering also if you might consider insulation or white noise? I have some Guatemalans on the left side of the house here in Phoenix that have loud parties sometimes - but not quite as often as I have talked to them and very civilly - and I have found turning on an old fan has helped to drown it out so that I can sleep, and it's not very often so I just let it go. Also - I would check into noise ordinances and see if you can get any relief there. It just seems kinda a huge step to leave when so much else about the situation works for you....OTOH....I lived in Portland for five years when I was younger and I can say that Oregon is awesome.....but yeah, maybe so sales tax but pretty pricey in other ways. Rob

[awakenedsoul]

You can never count on having perfect and considerate neighbors, even living in the country.

After visiting CA, I would really research the other places before making the jump. I loved the climate and growing season and having property taxes capped is a great benefit for retirement.

I love the weather, too. My food growing has been a huge success! I agree with you about the property taxes. But, I really am miserable with the situation, and I'm normally an upbeat person. The police told me to move. LA has a lot of problems now. A real lack of respect. My dogs used to help a lot, but now they are afraid of these people. Last night they were busting open pinatas with baseball bats, and the dogs (two dominant German shepherds,) wouldn't even go out. They get really really drunk and out of control...

[gimmethesimplelife]

I love the weather, too. My food growing has been a huge success! I agree with you about the property taxes. But, I really am miserable with the situation, and I'm normally an upbeat person. The police told me to move. LA has a lot of problems now. A real lack of respect. My dogs used to help a lot, but now they are afraid of these people. Last night they were busting open pinatas with baseball bats, and the dogs (two dominant German shepherds,) wouldn't even go out. They get really really drunk and out of control...Just curious, what have you grown? We are finally having the pool behind our house filled with dirt and the first thing going in is an apricot tree! So excited, there actually is one variety of apricot that does well here in Phoenix! Rob

[awakenedsoul]

Hi Awakened Soul.....Yeah this is a hard one. The little place you have sounds perfect except for this one big glaring thing. I am wondering also if you might consider insulation or white noise? I have some Guatemalans on the left side of the house here in Phoenix that have loud parties sometimes - but not quite as often as I have talked to them and very civilly - and I have found turning on an old fan has helped to drown it out so that I can sleep, and it's not very often so I just let it go. Also - I would check into noise ordinances and see if you can get any relief there. It just seems kinda a huge step to leave when so much else about the situation works for you....OTOH....I lived in Portland for five years when I was younger and I can say that Oregon is awesome.....but yeah, maybe so sales tax but pretty pricey in other ways. Rob

Thanks Rob. I don't even speak to them anymore, it's gotten so bad. (I was friendly at first. They told me to come over to their party if I don't like the noise. They are all outside the whole time. They don't fit in the house.) I put on my air conditioner on fan, and you're right, it does. help. It's just a terrible feeling. They get away with so much, and it just feels like a takeover. It's very depressing. I've wanted to move to Oregon for quite some time. I lived in Seattle when I was little, and I just loved it. I worked there as an adult, too. I'm drawn to the type of people. I just don't fit in here. Being a single woman and a dancer is like being an alien. There's also a heavy religious pressure here. (I teach yoga.)

[awakenedsoul]

Just curious, what have you grown? We are finally having the pool behind our house filled with dirt and the first thing going in is an apricot tree! So excited, there actually is one variety of apricot that does well here in Phoenix! Rob

That's great! I'm growing persimmons, pomegranates, oranges, lemons, pineapple guavas, plums, raspberries, strawberries, blackberries, and pineapple. I also grow melons in the summer. I do a vegetable garden, as well. This year I grew artichokes, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, zucchini, pumpkins, peppers, garlic, and onions.

[SteveinMN]

AS, it almost sounds as if you've emotionally divorced yourself from this situation, in which case this becomes pretty much a monetary issue -- how to maximize the money you get from your current house and move elsewhere efficiently. I would say to do your research and move toward something else rather than just rush away from this.

[lhamo]

Culturally it sounds like you'd be right at home in either Seattle or Portland (though pricewise you'd probaby want to look in outlying towns as you would struggle to find a house for your $150k. Gardenining is a bit more of a challenge as you get further north -- Oregon might be a better choice for that reason. Property taxes in WA are definitely going to be higher than in CA.

I'd probably move. Sounds miserable.

lhamo

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks Steve and Llamo. I've had friends from Oregon and Washington, and they were really my kind of people. I think I could teach ballet there, too. Culture is so important. I'm on the outskirts of town here, as well. I may try renting, first, and see how I like it. I've been decluttering all afternoon, and it feels really good. Purging old paperwork. I have enough leeway in my budget to pay higher property taxes. I think it will be worth the trade off.

[Rogar]

I lived in a similar neighborhood. It was fine when I moved in, but gradually deteriorated. There were not many noisy parties, but the police were at the houses on either side routinely over yelling domestic disputes and some physical violence. I moved to an old established neighborhood with mostly senior citizens and have never looked back. A person should be comfortable in their home or it really isn't so much a home but a house. It seems like there will always be a problem neighbor, but it is so nice to have neighbors who are decent folks.

[awakenedsoul]

Rogar,
I was wondering what you would say. That's really helpful. Thank you. Your current place sounds great! I realize that I have boxed myself in doing what is least expensive. Growing food is great, but I also miss working, having an active social life, and taking classes. I've lived in some great places, (Europe and Santa Fe, New Mexico...) It's time to get that feeling back. This place is a dead end for me. You really can feel people's energy. I do have several very nice neighbors. It's just the clash with the ones closest to my home.

[Spartana]

Hey Awakenedsoul - come on up to Big Bear Lake! Housing prices are cheap (for SoCal) and I think it;s much nicer thasn Frazier Park. Of course it's a pain in the butt to get up and down the mountain, especially in winter as you often need chains even with snow tires and 4 wheel drive, but if you don't have to work - or are OK with working a seasonal or resort industry job - then it's a good place. Of course the winter's are rough (very cold and can be snowy) and there are issues with wildfires too, and lots of second homes and visiting people - can get very crowded on summer and winter weekends - but otherwise it's not a bad place if you want to live in SoCal.

But I would recommend that before you decide to sell your place and move elsewhere (or after you sell your place) that you rent in the area for awhile before you decide to buy. That's especially important if you are going to a new area or one that has a climate you aren't familair with - like Washington, Oregon or even a mountain town like Big Bear. That way you can try it before making any long term financial commitments, or paying out alot of money to sell your place and buy another. There are lots of off season furnished, all untilities and everything included, vacation rentals that will rent cheaply by the month. So you could try rent a place somewhere in an area you'd like to live (say Washington) in mid-winter and give it a try before taking the plunge. If you didn't like it then you are free to leave - either to go back to your house if you haven't sold it yet, or to another vacation rental somewhere else that you may like.

Other things to consider too are how old are your parents and do you want to be far away from them? Also property taxes in other places aren't capped like Califs are so they could get raised higher at anytime. But if you move out of state to a much less expensive place - or to a less expensive part of Calif - then taxes may not be that big a deal. Personally I'd move to someplace liker Oregon or Washington (preferably Washington but Oregon is drier and warmer - especially along the I-5 corridor towns) rather than stay in Calif (especially SoCal) but parents, familiy and friends, etc... may mean you want to stay in this area. So if that's the case you can probably find a great deal housing-wise if you can move out of the city area.

[Gardenarian]

If possible, I would wait a year or so and see what the market does.

[awakenedsoul]

I just found this thread again. Well, I put my house on the market a week ago. I received four offers! But, they all fell through. My agent said that the next door neighbors did not have nice things to say about me or my property to the potential buyers. One is a very macho controlling man, and he was hanging out by the fence while the agents showed the house. He would intercept the potential buyers and sabotage...(sigh...)
There were other problems, too. My agent was very pushy and I didn't feel she was communicating what I wanted to the interested agents. She wanted to pick the agent who would close the sale with her. I just let it all go and decided to stay here and enjoy my homegrown food. I'll focus on my good neighbors. I have several.

I did find a gorgeous cabin up in the mountains. I placed a contingency offer on it when I had this one on the market. It's only $80,000. I told my mom about it and she and my dad may buy it as an investment. If things get bad here, I could jump in my car and be up there in an hour or so. It's a very safe, quiet area. They are mostly retirement and vacation homes.

Spartana,
Thanks for the advice. I'll have to research the area. I've spent the weekend there with my ex, and I loved it. When I lived in Santa Fe, I had chains on my car, and I was fine.

You'd think these neighbors would want me so sell...

[SteveinMN]

But, they all fell through. My agent said that the next door neighbors did not have nice things to say about me or my property to the potential buyers. One is a very macho controlling man, and he was hanging out by the fence while the agents showed the house. He would intercept the potential buyers and sabotage...(sigh...).
As you mentioned later in your post, you would think they would want to help you sell -- or at least not hinder a possible sale. Could your RE agent give you any additional feedback from others who viewed the house? I'm a little curious that in a week you got four offers (okay, not curious about that, it happens) but that the four offers all fell through. Were these buyers not prequalified/preapproved? It usually takes longer than a week to get a mortgage/appraisal/closing date, so I'm surprised that things fell apart so early in the process. Might be worth asking the agent about that, even if just for future reference. Really, for as big a pain as it is to sell a residence in which you're living, the viewing should be limited to open houses and to people who actually can qualify to purchase it.


There were other problems, too. My agent was very pushy and I didn't feel she was communicating what I wanted to the interested agents. She wanted to pick the agent who would close the sale with her.
Do you have a contract with this agent to represent the house for X amount of time? Whenever your commitment to her is done, I strongly suggest finding someone else, and maybe even from another brokerage. This one apparently is not representing your interests. Agents you can work with should not be pushy and should not be manipulating a sale like that. I'm not really familiar with RE law, but her behavior sounds borderline unethical to me. On the other hand, there are lots of details which are not present here, so maybe I'm being unfair to the agent. But based on what I see here, you'd be better off with another agent if you can find one.

[iris lily]

I lived in a similar neighborhood. It was fine when I moved in, but gradually deteriorated. There were not many noisy parties, but the police were at the houses on either side routinely over yelling domestic disputes and some physical violence. I moved to an old established neighborhood with mostly senior citizens and have never looked back. A person should be comfortable in their home or it really isn't so much a home but a house. It seems like there will always be a problem neighbor, but it is so nice to have neighbors who are decent folks.

To my tight *ssed neighbor I supposed that I am the noisy nasty piece of business, haha, for the loud event that took place on the sidewalk in front of my own house a few weeks ago. It was 8:30 at night and I was talking to two other neighbors, we ad a lot to say and w were laughing and in high spirits. He couldn't abide it and had to ask me to be quiet since "this IS a public street after all" whatever that means.

[iris lily]

OP, that's really great that you received so many offers out of the box. That shows you that your property is sellable, so when you want to go, you'll be able to do so.

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks Steve and Iris Lily. Am seeing now that it's much more affordable for me to stay here. I can bike everywhere and my utility bills are super low. Yes, I agree with you about the realtor, Steve. The best offer was cash, and her parents were putting up the money. Her father changed his mind. (After I saw him talking with my neighbor.) One was an FHA loan, and the realtor offered part of his commission to my realtor if she took his offer. They came to my house late at night and I turned the outside light out. (I was trying to sleep.) I heard a voice say, "awakenedsoul, it's not selling. $125,000." It was so creepy! This was after the cash person backed out. Her agent "accidentally wrote the wrong real estate company on the forms." She was stalling. (Said her granddaughter was in the hospital, etc...) There was just a lot of shady stuff going on. I didn't see the fourth offer because I had already ended things with the agent. I've had terrible experiences with real estate agents here. I have caught them in so many lies.

Have talked with previous owners of this house, and all three of them had trouble with the same neighbors, too. It's been much better. I really love my little house. They just don't seem to be building one bedroom one bathroom places anymore.

[awakenedsoul]

OP, that's really great that you received so many offers out of the box. That shows you that your property is sellable, so when you want to go, you'll be able to do so.

It was nice to see the reaction of the realtors. They really liked all my second hand antiques. I've been putting a lot of time into fixing up my home, so it was a pleasant surprise.

I would never get upset with someone for just having an animated conversation. This situation is totally different. But, at least it's quiet most of the time. I've been giving a lot of fruit away to my nice neighbors. That seems to help the most. I think they perceived my living by myself as being prey. In their culture, a woman living alone is very looked down upon...(Oops! I ended that sentence with a preposition.)

[awakenedsoul]

Steve,
The cash offer was an as is sale. She had proof of funds, but my agent didn't tell me it was her parents' money. She said, "She has $249,000. in the bank." She also wanted a two week escrow. I didn't think at the time to check for her name. It came to me later. It was an emotional roller coaster. I learned a lot. Now that you mention it, all three realtors I've tried over the past 15 years were from the same company. They felt like gamblers. to me.

[Jilly]

... Her father changed his mind. (After I saw him talking with my neighbor.) ...

The prospective buyer did not change his mind because of any bad-mouthing about you from that neighbor, he changed his mind because none of them wanted to be neighbors with that guy. And, it is my best guess that your neighbor is not interested in having a new person in your house because it is very likely that the new owner(s) will probably be more assertive about his bad behaviors.

[awakenedsoul]

The prospective buyer did not change his mind because of any bad-mouthing about you from that neighbor, he changed his mind because none of them wanted to be neighbors with that guy. And, it is my best guess that your neighbor is not interested in having a new person in your house because it is very likely that the new owner(s) will probably be more assertive about his bad behaviors.


Thank you. I've taken him to court for harassment, threatening an animal, and violation of a noise ordinance. I've also called the police on him numerous times. They advised me to move. He is a very difficult man. (Abusive and controlling.) He and his wife both have cancer. It sounds terrible, but I guess I just have to wait it out.

[ctg492]

Having moved way to many times for at the time "all the right reasons", I suppose I can give not much offering of help other then; Neighbors can be troublesome anyhwere. One home I never imagined bad neighbors, it ended up being the only place we had a security system installed :( just casue of them. But if you want to move, you should. Life is interesting that way.

[awakenedsoul]

I ran the numers on living somewhere else, and this home is far more inexpensive and energy efficient. It's also in excellent condition. I am focusing on the great neighbors that I have. LIke you said, I could move and end up next door to another problem. The neighborhood itself is improving, which I find encouraging.

[sweetana3]

Awakenedsoul, my inlaws lived next to a horrible woman who complained about everything. My inlaws were two little quiet elderly neighbors without pets, kids, noise, etc. Well, the wife died and suddenly the husband could not do enough for them and turned out to be a very nice neighbor. My inlaws just outlived the problem neighbor. He was so sorry when Dad died and Mom moved out here to live near us.

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks sweetana3. I'm trying to focus on the positives. When I looked at what I could buy for what my older home is worth, there's no comparison. I think sometimes when people are sick they become very negative. I wish your in laws lived next door to me! I have some new neighbors across the street, and they are really considerate and easy. I also have a family behind me who are also dog lovers and they have invited me over for a meal. So, the situation has improved. I've noticed the difficult neighors seem perturbed when they see me chatting with the neighbors I really like. (Before they were trying to isolate me.) I'll try to focus on my goals and the big picture.

Today I needed an onion to make tacos. It was so convenient to just hop on my bike and run to the store. Stuff like that will help a lot as I get older. The place I looked at in the mountains was really out in the boonies. Beatiful, but isolated.

[cjones]

I'm going to come right out and say it---their bad health will probably bring an end to this awful situation, there may well be light at the end of this tunnel. You are so so smart to be cautious before making an un-do-able change, given how many plusses are involved, but I really hate the noise harrassment you are dealing with. Noise-stress can really affect a person's life. Can you make an intentional effort to go on retreats or camping trips to give yourself some more regular quiet time? A good soak in silence may have some monetary costs---but it's cheaper than moving and a huge investment in your mental and physical health. Also: Noise-cancelling headphones. Bose makes a $300 pair, expensive, but I would have lost my mind years ago without 'em.

[RosieTR]

Good luck, Awakened Soul. When we had noisy neighbors partying literally all night long outside our backyard in Phx, we called the police with a noise complaint and got no response. The next time they had a party late into the night (like past midnight) we called the police and said we thought there was underage drinking going on there was drinking going on, but we had no idea if it was adults or what, just that it was loud). This solved the problem. However, it sounds like the police have been by your neighbors a bunch and not done anything. I would suggest perhaps a loud lawnmower at 5 or 6am the morning following a party night. Airhorns, your car horn, a boom box, whatever. You smelled natural gas coming from their house at 6am and decided to call the fire department. You send them flower delivery specifically at 6 or 7 am. There may be an evil computer program that will dial their phone number(s) at a specific time. Anything to wake them up, every time they party, right around dawn. Preferably repeatedly. If all efforts to be nice and ask for consideration have failed, you can fight fire with fire.

[try2bfrugal]

You smelled natural gas coming from their house at 6am and decided to call the fire department.

I think fake emergency calls are against the laws in most locations.

[sweetana3]

For those of you suggesting tit for tat responses like a lot of noice at 5am, they are not her only neighbors.

[rodeosweetheart]

For those of you suggesting tit for tat responses like a lot of noice at 5am, they are not her only neighbors.

Wasn't there a movie where people did this to each other--in the 80's maybe--they lived on a culdesac? It turned me off culdesac living permanantly,

[awakenedsoul]

With these people, it would only make them worse. They thrive on that. I have a German shepherd who will stand in the driveway and bark incessantly during their parties. It really annoys them, so that has worked the best. I keep her quiet the rest of the time. It's actually gotten so much better. When I first moved here, their parties were for three days, every weekend. Now it's once in a blue moon. I think they are going somewhere else now. (without a noisy dog.)

It's so true...you can't put a price on peace and quiet.