awake/asleep times in a family

[Zoe Girl]

I think I am stressing out already and we are just moving my oldest back in. She texted me at 1 am to see when I would come by to start moving with her, this is typical not only when she has a bad insomnia night. Now I have been up for a couple hours puttering around and waiting because I am not going over there until I know she is awake. I have texted, it is time to start calling. When she lives with me it is a constant issue in a small house, but not just that. It is also that we would go weeks without seeing each other almost in the same house.

So does anyone else have this issue? I have had friends who have no problems with family being up and awake all times of the night, however I get up at 5 am most days. Even if there is no noise there is the regular issue of needing to actually see each other and maybe plan a meal or talk about chores or just do what needs to be done for the girls with college.

Okay gonna do more laundry I guess and wait.

[try2bfrugal]

I am not sure how old your daughter is but teenagers (at least ours and their friends) seem to gravitate towards being nocturnal on days they do not have to get up for school or a job. I have an air filter in the bedroom to drown out their noise at night. For communication we text them or just tell them we are all doing chores at such and such a time or we need to meet with them at a certain time to discuss something. Email works, too.

I think with kids you have to pick your battles so if they are otherwise responsible teenagers or adult kids, working and/or going to school and getting good grades, then we tend to let them keep the sleep hours they want (within reason) as long as they are not disrupting the rest of the family.

[Zoe Girl]

She is 22 now, she has an interesting work situation. She is being paid and not working (she works at the movie theater in Aurora that was shot up, still in limbo). When I text or send notes things just don't get done, and now she is saying to my mother she does not plan on going to school in January because it is too much work to get it together by then (she has nothing that she is doing as far as i can tell).

What you are saying works well with her younger sister. She has been staying up super late but needds to take the bus for a long time to get to work. There have been a few times she was quite late, I rescued her once. So she is getting the hang of this pretty quick since she likes earning money. Her senior year of high school however was totally un productive, they gave her a pity diploma from on-line school finally.


I guess what is disruptive since I have a small place and my daughter gets half of the basement instead of a door with a room is that we spend all day being quiet. Plus when she is supposed to cook dinner and she wakes up at 5. Okay just heard from kid that she is awake and I can go down and start moving some crap

[Miss Cellane]

I think the rules with an adult child returning home can be different. You can set the rules you need, and the child can either follow them or find her own place to live.

So if you want to have a daily, in-person check-in at a specific time, tell her that. If you want her to have dinner on the table, piping hot at 6 pm, tell her that and let her figure out how to do it. And if she doesn't do it, then have consequences ready for her. If going to school is a condition of her living with you, be prepared to throw her out if she doesn't go, and make sure she knows what will happen.

Since she is not working, there is no need for her to sleep all day. If she were working nights, that would be another story. So I'd just tell her, "This family is awake and doing things during the day. Our quiet time is at night. You can choose to sleep all day if you want, but none of us will be taking any special care to be quiet during the day. Your room is in the basement and I need to be able to do things down there during the day. Arrange your sleep time accordingly, but I won't be listening to complaints about noise during the day."

[rodeosweetheart]

I think the rules with an adult child returning home can be different. You can set the rules you need, and the child can either follow them or find her own place to live.

So if you want to have a daily, in-person check-in at a specific time, tell her that. If you want her to have dinner on the table, piping hot at 6 pm, tell her that and let her figure out how to do it. And if she doesn't do it, then have consequences ready for her. If going to school is a condition of her living with you, be prepared to throw her out if she doesn't go, and make sure she knows what will happen.


But how does this work with an adult child returning home? I am unclear as to how you are supposed to make an adult do anything, that is the problem. If all you have to influence them is the threat of throwing them out, then how does this accomplish anything?

I guess I don't know how I would handle any of my adult children coming home to live--I suspect it would not be happy for either of us, as I don';t want to be back in that role of telling them what to do and setting rules for another adult.

[creaker]

My oldest was home for a bit saving to go to LA (she ended up on the southern coast of France, life is what happens when you are making other plans). She DJ's so our schedules were opposite each other. She slept like the dead and I have a white noise generator in my room (although I did not need, she was never loud when I was. sleeping). We made it work - actually I really enjoyed the time she was here. My relationship with her was very rocky when she was younger, it gave us a chance to redefine it based on where we both are now.

I think it's important to keep in mind that although she is your daughter, and you are family, that you're really living with another adult. And likewise, your daughter needs to realize that even if she is home, and you're her parent, that she's really living with another adult. Adults that live together either make it work or they make other arrangements.

[creaker]

But how does this work with an adult child returning home? I am unclear as to how you are supposed to make an adult do anything, that is the problem. If all you have to influence them is the threat of throwing them out, then how does this accomplish anything?

I guess I don't know how I would handle any of my adult children coming home to live--I suspect it would not be happy for either of us, as I don';t want to be back in that role of telling them what to do and setting rules for another adult.

On that level, it's more like having roommates with whom you share a very long history :-)

If you were going to rent a room in your house, what expectations would be reasonable for either party?

[Miss Cellane]

But how does this work with an adult child returning home? I am unclear as to how you are supposed to make an adult do anything, that is the problem. If all you have to influence them is the threat of throwing them out, then how does this accomplish anything?

I guess I don't know how I would handle any of my adult children coming home to live--I suspect it would not be happy for either of us, as I don';t want to be back in that role of telling them what to do and setting rules for another adult.

I never did, but several of my siblings moved back in with our father for up to a year at a time, when they needed to. Dad set out certain rules they had to follow to live in his house. If they didn't want to follow the rules, they were free to leave. They had to do some of the housework, their own laundry, either buy their own food or pay Dad half the food bill, that sort of thing. And Dad got to control what they watched on TV, if there was a conflict.

Parents don't have to let their kids return home. I know one family where they start charging the kids rent at age 16 (some of the rent can be worked off by doing chores) and expect the kids to be married and out of the house by 21. I don't completely agree with everything they do, but the kids know the score and know they have to leave by a certain age.

Zoe Girl should not have to creep around in silence in her own house. She should not have to postpone chores. She should not have to deal with disrespect from another adult. It is perfectly okay for a parent to set out rules for living in the house. The child can either accept the rules or find another place to live. This child has a job. It's not like Zoe Girl would be throwing her out on the street. There are other people living in the house and the daughter has to adapt to their rules, not expect them to adapt to hers.

[JaneV2.0]

...

Parents don't have to let their kids return home. I know one family where they start charging the kids rent at age 16 (some of the rent can be worked off by doing chores) and expect the kids to be married and out of the house by 21. I don't completely agree with everything they do, but the kids know the score and know they have to leave by a certain age.
... .

Good God. I'm all for young people getting out and on their own sooner rather than later, and I agree completely with your overall premise, but I've never been a fan of shotgun weddings--for whatever reason.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Good God. I'm all for young people getting out and on their own sooner rather than later, and I agree completely with your overall premise, but I've never been a fan of shotgun weddings--for whatever reason.

+1 I'd find away out of that situation someway if I had to, but it wouldn't be marriage (even being a young person stripping for the money for college sounds better than a shotgun wedding)

As for Zoe Girls kid, she's just getting lazy :~), she just needs to be made to go back to school or else get a job with a plan to support herself.

[Miss Cellane]

Good God. I'm all for young people getting out and on their own sooner rather than later, and I agree completely with your overall premise, but I've never been a fan of shotgun weddings--for whatever reason.

Oh, trust me, I don't like that part either. Two of the daughters of this family worked for me as high school/college interns for several years. Their parents started pushing marriage on them starting at about 18, I think. The girls were able to negotiate a bit and stayed home until they finished college--the parents weren't all that happy with their decisions to attend college, as a college degree had done nothing for their father, but they allowed it.

This family is an extreme example of pushing kids out of the nest early, I know. But what made it work was that the parents were always upfront with their expectations--the kids needed to get jobs, they needed to earn money, living at home was a privilege not a right after age 18, and there were expectations as to how the kids behaved. I have to say that every member of the family that I met was polite, well-spoken, had a job and seemed pretty happy. They all graduated from high school in a town with a 33% drop-out rate and managed to support themselves from a relatively early age. There are worse things parents can do to kids.

[Mrs-M]

I'm going to skip all the small-stuff, and get straight to the point. You are the homeowner, so you rule the roost, Zoe Girl, and aside from being a wonderful mom by helping out your daughter, you should establish set ground rules, ahead of her move-in, and ensure that your daughter fully understands them.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything Miss Cellane, mentioned. She hit the target dead-on.

[Zoe Girl]

Thanks for the conversation. I hope this time she moves back goes better. I hve asked her to leave 3 times and she has, and each tiem she has been employed. However the roomates she got were pretty bad and some other things happened. However I am setting this up so that if we have issues with my rules it will be mandatory counseling sessions with her. I am finally no longer working 7 days a week and so I can make time for this and find a sliding scale type counselor. As someone said they are adults, they either respect the rules or they know they can or have to go, and it is rarely ever so clear and simple as that I will tell you.

At least when I saw her this morning it was nice, I moved a car load of stuff and then her siblings took over while I do massive laundry at home and move stuff around. No one needs to know that I can also sneak in the netflix of shows they hate.

[Mrs-M]

Originally posted by Zoe Girl.
As someone said they are adults, they either respect the rules or they know they can or have to go, and it is rarely ever so clear and simple as that I will tell you.It has to be as simple as that, period. Respecting and honouring the homeowners wishes, rules, and guidelines (IMO), should be an issue NOT open for discussion. THIS, is how it works in MY house/our house, and THIS, is the way it will be.

Whether it be a mother, a father, a sister, a brother, a relative, or a friend, the one moving into someone else's domain is being afforded a privilege, and that privilege is, you are being sheltered under the roof of someone else's home out of their good nature, will, and care, so in turn, the person moving in, looses all of their rights to exercise THEIR ways, and under no uncertain terms would I entertain the likes of a sit-down to revamp or negotiate existing ways or incorporate new ways.

As in, It is what it is, and if my offer doesn't meet the needs and requirements of your lifestyle, then may I suggest that you best look for alternative accommodations. End of discussion.

Parenting, is not easy by any means, and as much as we (as parents) like to be able to extend ourselves at times to accommodate and entertain, there are times such options are not open for implementation, and I believe this is one of them, Zoe Girl.

[JaneV2.0]

Thanks for the conversation. I hope this time she moves back goes better. I hve asked her to leave 3 times and she has, and each tiem she has been employed. However the roomates she got were pretty bad and some other things happened. However I am setting this up so that if we have issues with my rules it will be mandatory counseling sessions with her. I am finally no longer working 7 days a week and so I can make time for this and find a sliding scale type counselor. As someone said they are adults, they either respect the rules or they know they can or have to go, and it is rarely ever so clear and simple as that I will tell you.

At least when I saw her this morning it was nice, I moved a car load of stuff and then her siblings took over while I do massive laundry at home and move stuff around. No one needs to know that I can also sneak in the netflix of shows they hate.

Perhaps she's learned from previous mistakes and will make better choices next time.

[rodeosweetheart]

Thanks for the conversation. I hope this time she moves back goes better. I hve asked her to leave 3 times and she has, and each tiem she has been employed. However the roomates she got were pretty bad and some other things happened. However I am setting this up so that if we have issues with my rules it will be mandatory counseling sessions with her. I am finally no longer working 7 days a week and so I can make time for this and find a sliding scale type counselor. As someone said they are adults, they either respect the rules or they know they can or have to go, and it is rarely ever so clear and simple as that I will tell you.

At least when I saw her this morning it was nice, I moved a car load of stuff and then her siblings took over while I do massive laundry at home and move stuff around. No one needs to know that I can also sneak in the netflix of shows they hate.

I think you are really kind to make this offer. I am just not sure how it works--why are you having to do the massive laundry, or sneak in Netflix,or move a carload of stuff when you have to work to get her to wake up? That's where this gets confusing to me. If she is 22, she is an adult, not a child. What will be different this third time?

I would have a hard time doing what you are doing without getting resentful of the "kids"--she is obviously not a kid, so I guess I'm building on the other post about how much do you do for your kids and when you let them fall on their faces. This is where I would be a bit conflicted were one of my kids to return--I would have to fight the tendency to over function, which I believe leads to them underfunctioning.

But heck, I don;'t know, you guys are the only ones who can work this out, obviously.

And I think you are a great mom!

[thinkgreen]

Quote: She is 22 now, she has an interesting work situation. She is being paid and not working (she works at the movie theater in Aurora that was shot up, still in limbo).

I didn't know about the Aurora theatre shooting but I just looked it up. There were 12 people killed, 58 people injured, three months ago. Do you think she may have some issues relating to being closely connected to the trauma? Is she getting counselling?

[Zoe Girl]

Quote: I didn't know about the Aurora theatre shooting but I just looked it up. There were 12 people killed, 58 people injured, three months ago. Do you think she may have some issues relating to being closely connected to the trauma? Is she getting counselling?


Yes that can be part of it, she has had some counseling, there are difficulties because she does not have transportation, no friends who have cars much less drivers licenses and I am not able to drive around to get her to appointments. The theater has had counselors at meetings and she feels a strong connection with her coworkers. She was there that night, it was her 2nd day back at work. We cannot talk about this much as you probably underrstand. This is why I want to say if we has issues this time then i want counseling for us instead of askign her to leave and having another year of struggle.

I understand I am bringing this up and so it is open to criticism however I don't think she is going to get from where she has been the last couple years to wonderfully cooperative with everything in my house overnight. I live very diffirently than she has been, she has been cooperative about some things like when she is here she actually stopped smoking in the house. That took awhile, her sister has also stopped sneaking this as well.

The massive laundry and all that work is because the kids are moving their sisters stuff. I am not very strong. Heck on a good weekend we are doing massive laundry and the kids hate Law and Order on netflix. I don't think that it is too weird for the family to argue about TV shows, I am just really cranky, honestly. After bad things happen to you and your family it doesn't necessarily give you more energy or resources,

[rodeosweetheart]

After bad things happen to you and your family it doesn't necessarily give you more energy or resources,

Hugs and best wishes that the move goes smoothly!

[thinkgreen]

Thanks for the update Zoe Girl.

I understand what you are saying and have a better handle on what has happened to you and your family. There is more going on than sleep/awake times. The ripple effect from an event such as that runs far and deep. I understand how you want to help your daughter get past this and have a beautiful life. Mothers are hard wired to protect their family.

Family members of a friend of mine were killed at the Reno Air Races in September 2011. That trauma has not healed and the cut is still very raw. Everyone has their own individual way and timetable to deal with grief.

I wish I had more constructive, specific advice for you. I believe you are doing the right thing, your instincts are good and your ethics are good. In your place I think I would aim to keep calm and loving. Hopefully it will rub off on everyone. You need your rest to get through this. I will pray for healing in your home.

[try2bfrugal]

I don't know anything about the trauma aspect of what your daughter is going through, so I have no advice on that. That must have been really rough for her and I wish you the best in dealing with her over that. The counseling seem like a great idea.

In general the book Setting Limits: How to Raise Responsible, Independent Children by Providing Clear Boundaries has been a pretty helpful book for us on getting the kids to do their chores done and act responsibly. Basically the idea is to have clear rules and rewards for following the rules and consequences for not following the rules. It works even with older / adult kids living at home. The rewards / consequences can just be higher level privileges like getting to use the car or not, or paying rent or having it waived if they pitch in on the household chores.