where are the do-it-yourselfers? [Archive]

pinkytoe

10-23-12, 4:21pm

fidgiegirl

10-23-12, 4:51pm

Here! Here! We are ALL about DIY at this house. It is hard for me to see people I love paying money for things they could be doing themselves. Not in the case of if they really have thought it out and that's what they decide - but in the case of being scared, underinformed, so ragged from their rat race, etc.

Even I admit, sometimes my early programming still rears its ugly head - "you're taking away someone's job," etc. But I name it and go ahead with my learning.

ToomuchStuff

10-23-12, 4:58pm

A multiple of things happened to get us to this point. When I was growing up, things started to change, from buying something and getting instructions that had schematics/plans and common repair info, to being throw away items. As people moved away from workbenches and more out into the workforce, to pay for the "newness" of gadgets (which were replaced when broke), they didn't have time for simple stuff. Things that one would do themselves, they had to hire done, at a cost that is more then it would cost them (actual cost is normally about 1/3 of what you should be charging someone).
Cost of materials/labor/insurance/rental/profit margin.

Miss Cellane

10-23-12, 5:26pm

Sometimes, it comes down to what it's worth to do it yourself. Some people (not me) make enough money at their jobs that it is better for them to hire out common chores. That frees up their time to do other things, including make more money. Or rest up from making so much money.

Sometimes, it is "keeping up with the Jones." If everyone else in the neighborhood has a nanny, what does it say about you that you don't? Most of the people who post here probably don't care what others think, but a good many people do care, a lot.

Float On

10-23-12, 5:26pm

I don't mind spreading jobs around to my friends, a lot of them aren't making the money they were a few years ago either. But most things I like to tinker with myself first - love youtube videos for learning new skills.

CathyA

10-23-12, 5:39pm

I think I would pay more people to do jobs around here if I weren't such a hermit. DH is too and doesn't like to ask anyone for help. So we spend too much time/energy on trying to do too much.
Plus, DH doesn't have much extra time, and my body is falling apart. I'd love to have someone deal with our property (cutting the grass/planting trees/weeding), and someone to wash my windows. I've always thought it would be great to find a good, honest handyman, who would come once every few weeks and do odd jobs.
But alas.........we do it all ourselves. We might save money, but its breaking our backs.

Gardenarian

10-23-12, 6:03pm

Yes, youtube videos are great - it's amazing what you can find on there.

I usually try to do everything myself; sometimes it works (I fixed the dishwasher!) sometimes we need to call in the pros (Our water main is broken!) It makes sense to hire out if a project requires some expensive tools that you don't have. Sometimes simple brute strength is a factor; I've got hard clay soil and just digging a post hole is back-breaking work. I don't have a truck and there are a lot of projects that are a whole lot easier if you have.

I refinish furniture, make my own curtains and other fabric stuff, tear out old flooring and replace, do most of the painting (walls etc.) My cabin had some rotten stairs on the outside and I rebuilt them myself.; I'm turning the old carport into a screened porch. I do have a handyman for jobs that require some expertise (installing a new gas heater) or that I've never done before - I usually help out, getting a lesson and saving some money at the same time. I would really love to increase my skill level.

One thing I've learned in the last decade is that it is really diffficult to repair the new appliances (HE washers, for example) that have computers built into them.

Right now I'm really interested in building garden stuff. I have three ponds and am always fiddling with different plants, pumps, etc. I'm working on a bunch of different projects - arbors, raised beds, furniture, bird feeders, propagating plants. I like upcycling stuff - here is a link to my Pinterest page of some garden projects I'm thinking of trying: Permascaping. (http://pinterest.com/gardenarian/permascaping/)

I'm also going to try and plumb an outdoor bathtub by myself. What could go wrong? :laff:

Frugalifec

10-23-12, 6:29pm

For me doing it your self was ingrained in me from an early age not out of intention, but out of necessity. It was just my only option in most cases. First car, first house etc... were all a matter of fixing something that someone else had not wanted. This is partly because I didn't grow up in an affluent family but also partly due to circumstances where I was on my own in many ways at an early age. This turned out to be a huge asset. It's given me a sense of independence and security that can't be bought with money.

Not long ago a friend of mine that owns a sailing business was hired by a wealthy yacht owner to captain a large sailboat on a race far out across the ocean. My friend is a very resourceful and capable person so the owner and crew were in good hands. After they were a few days under way (and a long way from shore) the wealthy yacht owner became very anxious over the event which is not not his nature. This confused my friend how this very successful and supremely confident business owner was so uncomfortable in this situation even though all was going well. The conclusion my friend came to after the trip was over was that the owner always had a war chest of money he could rely on to fix any problem that should come up. But out there it did him no good and the thought of not being able to resolve an issue bothered him. In reality they were well prepared for just about any event, but the thought of doing it yourself was very unnerving for the owner.

So I like that feeling of being able to get myself out of a situation, to experiment and the freedom it gives me to try different approaches. The down side of the whole idea of DYI for me is that it is always the first thing I think of. So often I think that just because I CAN do something or can teach myself something (thanks youtube!), then that is the best way to go. It's really hard to out perform an honest hard working professional at what they do. Often there is a reason that they charge the outrageous prices for their service or product. So for me it gets down to the judgment of when to take a project on myself and when to turn it over to the pros.

Today a friend brought his pickup truck over and we spent about an hour of time and about $5 fixing his clutch pedal linkage. It works like new now. Before he came over he was thinking of selling it and now he will keep it. That was a very satisfying. A few months ago I had to sheetrock a house, I farmed it out to a good contractor and he did it in a fraction of the time I would have taken for not that much more than I would have had to pay for materials. That was also very satisfying.

I've heard that 99% of the cost of a project is determined in the first 1% of the planing. That seems so true to me.

Float On

10-23-12, 6:43pm

SteveinMN

10-23-12, 6:56pm

Before I left my "day job", we hired out a lot of work, because money was not the rare commodity -- free time was. We would rather pay someone rather than spend a lot of our free hours figuring out how to do (or re-do) a repair or home project. We would rather pay someone to make us dinner so we didn't have to (just another form of DIY). It's different now, so I do more. But I know my limits, and I still want the job done right. So if I'm not the guy who can do it right, we hire out the job.

Gardenarian

10-23-12, 7:52pm

Blackdog Lin

10-23-12, 8:48pm

We have always (well, for the last 12-15 years anyway, since I got onboard here) stayed true to our Simple Living roots. If we COULD do it ouselves, we did. If we COULDN'T, then we hired it out. It's a nice middle ground. Food, gardening, landscaping, vehicle repairs, home repairs: we've always taken care of it.

But life gets in the way sometimes. We're now older, DH is unable to get around too much, and there are too many things nowadays that he can't do. Oil changes/minor vehicle repairs that he used to take care of with no thought: gone. We have to pay for those now. Major appliance repairs, that he used to take care of: gone. He's not physically able to do these either.

We do brainstorm on moneysaving ways that we can do together, as in the minor roof repair that needed done couple years ago: he figured out what the problem was and what needed done, and sent me up on the roof and he directed me in the work. The garden is another instance that we use his expertise and my back. But the instances that we can use his brains and my brawn are becoming too few and far between.

I understand what Steve above, and others, have explained. Depending on your lifestyle, you trade either money, or time.

I wish for everyone the freedom to have the time, and not have to trade the money. It's our Simple Living dream, isn't it?

Lainey

10-23-12, 9:20pm

. . . I'm working on a bunch of different projects - arbors, raised beds, furniture, bird feeders, propagating plants. I like upcycling stuff - here is a link to my Pinterest page of some garden projects I'm thinking of trying: Permascaping. (http://pinterest.com/gardenarian/permascaping/)

Thanks for the link, Gardenarian. Lots of cool stuff there. I've been thinking about an outdoor solar shower myself, among other things for my backyard. I just had it "scraped" so now there's just 2 bushes and 3 tree saplings back there, plus an irrigation system - nothing else. Sort of frees the mind to new possibilities.

iris lily

10-23-12, 10:00pm

I worry about the next generation of, especially, poor people. Do they know how to fix cars? Grow a garden? Repair a porch? I don't think so. We see public housing down the block and everything is done for them: mowing the lawn. Weeding. Planting annuals. Maintaining plantings. Exterior physical maintenance. No one is learning any life skills in that rarefied environment.

One thing that DH said years ago has stayed with me: poor and working class people could always take apart their car on a weekend, in the street, and fix it. With these modern cars and their complex computers, Joe Amateur Mechanic can't fix them. That's a shame.

I'm glad to see people here on this site that would be my kids' age if I had them, DIY selfers.

Maxamillion

10-23-12, 11:45pm

Gardenarian -I had a friend that put an old iron tub out in the middle of his garden, he just filled it with the hose and would leave a black tarp on it to be heated by the sun during the day - then he could enjoy a soak and glass of wine surrounded by his beautiful garden.

I like that idea!

I don't really see a lack of DIY-ers here. I've seen some of my neighbors out working on their vehicles and working in their gardens. Over the last four years, I've seen a lot more people putting in gardens here to help with the food costs; the rise in gardens is at least one good thing that's come out of the financial mess. I've been learning how to do some minor stuff on my car and have a vegetable garden. I do a lot with crafts and computers too. Right now working on learning more programming so I can make games and databases, something I'd like to do if I'm ever able to return to the work force.

try2bfrugal

10-24-12, 12:50am

Right now I'm really interested in building garden stuff. I have three ponds and am always fiddling with different plants, pumps, etc. I'm working on a bunch of different projects - arbors, raised beds, furniture, bird feeders, propagating plants. I like upcycling stuff - here is a link to my Pinterest page of some garden projects I'm thinking of trying: Permascaping. (http://pinterest.com/gardenarian/permascaping/):laff:

I love those garden projects Gardenia. I would like to do some of those myself, especially the bird baths.

Miss Cellane

10-24-12, 7:54am

Another thing is that many people simply don't have the skills to DIY. I grew up with parents who weren't very good at fixing things like plumbing, or electricity or cars. Added to that, we mostly lived in military housing, so when something went wrong, you just called in base maintenance and they fixed it. Which means that once I left home, I had to figure out what basic tools I needed and how to use them. I imagine that I'm not the only one. It's funny now, because I have more power tools and am more handy around the house than most of my brothers, but that's because I decided I needed to learn how to do some basic things, like hanging curtain rods or putting up a towel bar, or fixing my bicycle.

When DIYing means having to buy the tools, figure out how to use them, figure out how to a specific project, buy the supplies for the project, and run the risk of a way less than perfect job the first few times--I can understand why many people decide to hire someone with the tools and skills necessary for the job. It's a lot easier and faster. And with something like a plumbing emergency, faster is often a good thing.

You have to want to save the money by DIYing to go to the trouble of learning things from scratch. YouTube videos are nice, but they don't always get into the details that a complete newbie needs.

And DIY can be more expensive at first, because you need to buy tools and supplies. I'm always reading about some great $10 project or $20 remodel that turns out would cost most people much, much more, because the people doing the project "just happened" to have leftover wood, nails, paint, casters, sheet metal and window glass from other projects, so they only need to buy the decorative drawer handles or whatever. They also use leftover sandpaper and tack cloths and wood filler and the like. And they already have all the necessary tools.

It takes a while to get to that point, if you are starting from scratch. I know I've hired someone to fix things when I realized that fixing it myself involved the purchase of expensive tools I most likely would never use again.

It really does come down to whether you want to spend the time or the money. I love to paint houses, so I do that. I don't know much about cars and would hate for my car to stop in the middle of the highway because I did something stupid, so I pay someone who has the knowledge and skills and tools to fix it properly. I crochet quite nicely. My knitting looks like a 3 year old ran amok with a skein of yarn. I could spend hours and hours and hours trying to improve my knitting, hours that I cannot use for doing other projects or learning other skills that might come more easily, or accept the fact that if I want something that is knitted, I need to buy it.

I can't learn how to do everything equally well. I go with my strengths and find other people willing to accept money to cover my weaknesses.

Rosemary

10-24-12, 7:56am

We do some things ourselves, and hire out some jobs. Depends on DH's work schedule and how much of it I can do by myself, how long and how much frustration we think the job will have... and also the cost to have it done elsewhere.
Examples:
Building a 3-season porch - hired out. Painting it - I did.
Oil changes on the cars - Available with $15 coupons - not worth the time to buy materials and do it ourselves.
Installing drip irrigation on 8 raised beds - I did, with materials advice from a great local supply store.
Landscaping - I do all our landscaping work.
Cooking - we rarely eat out, a big change from 10 years ago. Now it is usually a celebratory event - for a birthday or when we have out-of-town guests. I like it that way; our food at home is healthier and tastier in addition to being a lot cheaper (one good but casual meal out for 3 = 0.5 week of groceries). I'm the cook and baker.
Applying wood protectant to fence - hired out. We have a high, long fence and I hate working with chemicals. We really like a local company that does this kind of work; teachers run it as an extra income source.
Installing tile backsplash - we did.
Etc.

SteveinMN

10-24-12, 10:21am

Applying wood protectant to fence - hired out. We have a high, long fence and I hate working with chemicals. We really like a local company that does this kind of work; teachers run it as an extra income source.

I know I've hired someone to fix things when I realized that fixing it myself involved the purchase of expensive tools I most likely would never use again.
Your points raise some important gray areas.

There are some projects I would handle readily -- but. I'll be helping my stepdaughter paint walls in her new house -- but neither I nor her father or she has ladders or scaffolding high enough to finish the two-story wall in the living room, so that wall will be hired out (probably at a premium to just having a regular room painted).

One option to buying expensive tools is to rent them if you live someplace with a willing rental agency or hardware store. But then there's getting the tool back and forth to the work site (you won't do it with most cars; you need a wagon or a truck) and the skill required to use the tool properly. Having to rent a tool to complete a project is a big waving flag to me that suggests I should hire it out (because you have to add the cost of the rental versus the cost of hiring out).

pinkytoe

10-24-12, 10:24am

I've seen a lot more people putting in gardens here to help with the food costs
That is going on here too but seems like many are hiring garden coaches and or companies that build raised beds to do it for them. I know that time is money but sometimes I think it is more of an instant gratification thing for those I see in my neighborhood, ie I want my vegetable or xeriscape garden right now. Could it also be a status thing, ie I make enough money that I don't have/want to do manual labor? That is interesting about low income folks having services done for them...I hadn't thought about that. I used to volunteer for a nonprofit that would install gardens in public housing areas and the tenants seemed especially excited to grow fresh food (as long as we did the installation).

ToomuchStuff

10-24-12, 11:14am

I worry about the next generation of, especially, poor people. Do they know how to fix cars? Grow a garden? Repair a porch? I don't think so.

Today's poor, are not going to be like the poor were before me, or even during my time. (remember the government provided Smart phones)

I learned by hands on, watching shows such as this old house, when I was a kid (dad hated most of the stuff I have done and was NOT a teacher), and went out and found people who would teach me skills I wanted. (trade labor for learning)
That said, while things are getting more complicated, a lot of the tools are both coming down in prices (compare power tools now, to what they were in the 50's) and developing from things that we don't know how they will be used, today.
To give an example of what I can see in the future, since you mentioned cars. The readers vary in cost from under $100, to over $12K, and have different features. Smart poor people (those that won't remain poor by their effort, if they can help it), will not be driving some high end luxury car (example $80k Mercede's). They could even learn and build their own, with things like the Raspberry PI ($35 educational computer) and DIY OBD stuff. One link:
http://wolframpc.blogspot.com/p/raspberry-pi-car-pc-project.html

This doesn't even bring up the idea that skills that were high end when I was a kid (my cousin received scholarships for building a robotic arm 20ish years ago), are now taught in schools. With the internet, things that seem hard, can be brought up and learned at ones own pace. (how computers work, do a search for from Nand to tetris)

You worry, and I think it isn't different then now. It is about what choices one makes, no matter your environment.

Maxamillion

10-24-12, 12:38pm

Today's poor, are not going to be like the poor were before me, or even during my time. (remember the government provided Smart phones)

I suppose it depends on which poor people you know. I live in an area that's mostly poor people, mainly senior citizens and single working mothers in my apartment complex. Most of my life has been spent living in rural Mississippi and like the song says, country folks can survive.

SteveinMN

10-24-12, 4:39pm

You worry, and I think it isn't different then now. It is about what choices one makes, no matter your environment.
I don't know as all the choices are up to the individual. Certainly most products are no longer designed for repair -- or at least repair by relatively unskilled labor (us). Designing products as disposable and self-obsoleting benefits the corporate bottom line because most people give up and just buy a new whateveritis. Servicing products only by "authorized technicians" also is an additional income stream for many companies. They don't want you to fix what you bought.

Even products which can be maintained or repaired by pretty much anyone see efforts to discourage the attempts. The owner's manual for my car does not list the types of bulbs used in the taillamps and dome light or replacement procedures; it recommends taking the car to the dealer, who will charge a minimum of $25-35 and top price for the same bulb I can buy to address the lack of information. I've found the bulb specs elsewhere. Ridiculous....

And even ecology has made DIY more difficult. Some of the pipes in my mom's 1920s house are wrapped in what is very likely asbestos. Ripping those out willy-nilly to replace pipes with 90 years of mineral deposits is not a job for the casual after-hours plumber. Even disposing of construction waste has become more difficult/expensive. In some states, your DIY car repair has to pass an emissions test at annual inspection time.

Sure, lots of these situations can be surmounted. But it's just more roadblocks thrown in the way of doing it yourself.

Gardenarian

10-24-12, 5:19pm

I think everyone should have a basic set of tools and know how to use them. Here is an article from This Old House (http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,20452005,00.html)that talks about basic tools. My library carries this magazine; I get a lot of good stuff from both This Old House and Family Handyman.

bae

10-24-12, 5:27pm

I think everyone should have a basic set of tools and know how to use them.

It is even tricky these days to purchase basic hand tools of any quality. There are plenty of tool-shaped objects at Home Depot or your local hardware store, but precious few of them perform well. I've had great luck using EBay to locate quality tools from peoples' great-grandfathers' estates and such.

ToomuchStuff

10-25-12, 9:59am

Bea, unfortunately many of us, were not exposed to a lot of simple living tips as kids. Garage, and especially estate sales have been a great way to find GOOD used tools, inexpensively. Two aspects which I find, which seem to fight against that, are:
1. People need it right away, or wait until they do need it. (have to find bargains when you can)
2. People want matching stuff (easier to tell when something is missing)

SAE stuff, can be found used all day, at both garage and estate sales. Metric, not as much (car work, as house work SAE is fine).
Thankfully I learned somewhere in between the hard and easy ways.

Gardenarian

10-25-12, 2:58pm

It is even tricky these days to purchase basic hand tools of any quality. There are plenty of tool-shaped objects at Home Depot or your local hardware store, but precious few of them perform well. I've had great luck using EBay to locate quality tools from peoples' great-grandfathers' estates and such.

Bae - Could you give some pointers on finding good tools? I recently found an excellent maker of garden tools (ARS) but I wouldn't know what to look for in a saw, hammer, etc.

bae

10-25-12, 3:16pm

Bae - Could you give some pointers on finding good tools? I recently found an excellent maker of garden tools (ARS) but I wouldn't know what to look for in a saw, hammer, etc.

A friend pointed me at this wonderful book on the subject a few months ago:

"The Anarchist's Tool Chest", Christopher Schwarz

When I am too exhausted, ill or busy to work in my shop, I will shuffle down the stairs to my 15' x 25' workshop and simply stand there for a few minutes with my hands on my tools.

To be sure, I thought I was a touch nuts because of this personality quirk. But after reading the oral histories and diaries of craftsmen from the last 300 years, I found it's actually a common trait among artisans. I am drawn, married or perhaps addicted to the things that allow me to coax wood into new shapes. At the same time, my relationship with my tools is like a tumultuous combination of an Italian family drama, a bigamist's decision about who to sleep with and a careful gardener.

This book, “The Anarchist’s Tool Chest,” paints a world where woodworking tools are at the center of an ethical life filled with creating furniture that will last for generations. It makes the case that you can build almost anything with a kit of less than 50 high-quality tools, and it shows you how to select real working tools, regardless of their vintage or brand name.

“The Anarchist’s Tool Chest” will guide you in building a proper chest for your toolkit that follows the ancient rules that have been forgotten or ignored.

And it will make the argument that building a chest and filling it with the right tools just might be the best thing you can do to save our craft.

Gardenarian

10-25-12, 3:43pm

Oh, that book is hard to come by! I'll keep my eyes open for a copy (not ONE in our library system.)
This page had a list of tools from the book: Essential Hand Tools (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GPDbjr0nC4KsdusYQJJxtJDecy0WtsLHktJ0F4n3CKM/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1)

My problem is that I have a jackplane, but it is poorly made, won't keep an edge, gouges, etc. I guess I'll have to try and education myself on what to look for in tools.

I don't do a lot of woodworking, but a lot of the tools are handy when doing home maintenance - like putting in cabinets, or hanging or adjusting doors.

Spartana

10-25-12, 4:00pm

The post about saving on recurring expenditures got me to thinking about how so many I know seem to hire services to do stuff that most people used to do for themselves. Surely, that adds a lot to a household budget and allows people to become less resourceful and able to figure things out for themselves. I noticed that DH and I are one of only a few in my neighborhood who actually still do our own yard work. I think we must be the only ones too without a sprinkler system. I recently realized we need to spruce up our front yard in case we decide to sell and was amazed at the bids we got for very simple work. I am just going to do it myself bit by bit. I even have one young neighbor who has a mobile dog groomer come to her house to fluff up her Yorkie every week.
When did we get so helpless? Or are we just weird? As with simple living, I am beginning to think so...

I am a former DIY for pretty much everything you can name - even building my own furniture and rebuilding my vehicle engines and everything inbetween. Heck I even re-loaded my own ammo, grew my own food and sewed my own clothes. So I'm certainly not helpless. But after years of trying to do it all, I realized just how much time DIY stuff took away from doing all those other things that were much more important to me - especially when working a demanding full time job with a long commute. Time with family, friends, SO, pets, etc... Time volunteering or helping others. Time doing all the fun and enjoyable things in life. I found that using my time that way rather then doing unending chores or many DIY projects was much more enjoyable and worthwhile to me then doing everything myself. I do not enjoy doing most of those day to day tasks or the DIY stuff anyways so would rather pay money to get them done. Even if it means getting Fluffy fluffed once a week :-)! (OK I don't do that but I would! And hire a housekeeper too twice a month). I only have so much time on this planet and I want to spend it doing things I love, being with people (and critters) I love, and not spending all my free time doing chores I can hand over to someone else and free up that most valuable asset I have - time.

ETA: also, I have structured my life so that I really don't have many DIY chores but of the few I have - yard work and snow renoval and working on my car - I hire someone to do that as they are time consuming chores I don't enjoy. It also means that I don't need all the equiptment and tools that many DIY chores require. I don't need the space to store all those things. i don't need to buy them or pay the costs involved with their use and repair. All that means I have not only more free time, but need less space to live in. Al of which suits my minimalist and complications-free way of living simply perfectly.