View Full Version : Nor'easter on Election Day?
That's the potential forecast. Obviously no one wants that to happen, everyone in Sandy's path has enough problems without it. Since everything north and east of Washington is blue I doubt it would have any impact on the election outcome. If the vote in NY is 2 for Obama and 1 for Romney the electoral votes go to Obama. Even so, very low voter turnouts have a way of occasionally producing unpredictable results. I'm pretty civic minded, but if someone's boat is in my dining room and its windy and starting to snow voting might not be my top priority. Tuesday is going to be an interesting day.
I can't believe they won't extend voting for these people. I've heard that they are encouraging folks to go vote now, extending the times that early voting is allowed.
Al Roker alluded to bad weather in the near future, but he didn't say any more. I think he couldn't bring himself to say it.
But if I had just lost my home, my neighborhood, and my relatives had died......voting would be the very last thing on my mind.
If they can't get food/generators, etc., to people in some areas, they'd better not show up with voting machines.
I can't believe they won't extend voting for these people. I've heard that they are encouraging folks to go vote now, extending the times that early voting is allowed.
I'm not sure if that is, constitutionally speaking, an option or not. I haven't heard anyone (from either party) discussing the possibility.
Sad Eyed Lady
11-2-12, 3:08pm
Al Roker alluded to bad weather in the near future, but he didn't say any more. I think he couldn't bring himself to say it.
But if I had just lost my home, my neighborhood, and my relatives had died......voting would be the very last thing on my mind.
If they can't get food/generators, etc., to people in some areas, they'd better not show up with voting machines.
I agree!
Al Roker alluded to bad weather in the near future, but he didn't say any more. I think he couldn't bring himself to say it.
But if I had just lost my home, my neighborhood, and my relatives had died......voting would be the very last thing on my mind.
If they can't get food/generators, etc., to people in some areas, they'd better not show up with voting machines.
True, except, the constitution guarantees everyone the right to vote. It doesn't say the government needs to give you a generator, but it does say the government needs to give you a vote, if you want to.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's not even been a week. Our government, local and national are not miracle workers. That was a 900 mile wide storm. People need to just chill out and try to remember the scope of the damage. I know that's hard to do, but they need to do that all the same. Help is arriving, every day. Lots of help. It's just not going to become right overnight. When we went through a direct hit hurricane, we were without power for two weeks! Yes, it was frustrating, and I had to stand in lines with buckets, everyday for ice, fresh water, and anything else I needed. But we got through it. Neighbors didn't turn against neighbors, as many survivalist seem to think would happen in a disaster, and I didn't need to shoot anyone for a loaf of bread. ;)
Neighbors came together and we helped each other. Each of us was in the exact same situation.
Whenever I see, or hear about people 'losing it' over this, (and mind you I'm not talking about people who actually lost loved ones) I am reminded of the old saying.
Adversity doesn't build character, rather it reveals it.
I to feel this will be interesting to see how many actually vote.
Peggy, I'm talking about the people who have lost everything. Absolutely everything. Their children are cold, have no home, no clothes, no food and they haven't seen hide nor hair of the Red Cross. That's quite different from still having your home but not having power.
But I do agree that we are all accustomed to being helped immediately. But that's another thread.
Yikes, that's dreadful! We need everyone's participation. Though I am sick of this whole election, and of the big $$$ that has gone into it, I'm glad it's been raucous and full of participation.
True, except, the constitution guarantees everyone the right to vote.
Not as such. Later amendments prohibit discrimination against various groups, but there is no explicit guarantee of a right to vote in the same way that there is a guarantee of a right to keep and bear arms. That is why felons can vote in some states but not others.
Sad Eyed Lady
11-2-12, 5:53pm
Sorry, I didn't mean to cast despair on anyone helping in the rescue and relief effort. I know their jobs are tough and are doing the best that they can. I just mean if they can't get basic necessities to them, then a voting machine should not show up either!
The Storyteller
11-2-12, 7:27pm
I'm not sure if that [extending voting days] is, constitutionally speaking, an option or not. I haven't heard anyone (from either party) discussing the possibility.
It is, but the House would have to do it... and that just ain't gonna happen. Not for a couple of dark blue states.
And sorry, Gregg. They are staying blue, no matter the weather.
The Storyteller
11-2-12, 8:16pm
Not as such. Later amendments prohibit discrimination against various groups, but there is no explicit guarantee of a right to vote in the same way that there is a guarantee of a right to keep and bear arms. That is why felons can vote in some states but not others.
Well, there is, and SCOTUS has said as much. It's in that pesky 9th Amendment. How do you grant women the right to vote if there is no intrinsic right to vote.
And you can take away any right through due process, thus the occasional felon exception, which also applies to the 2nd Amendment right of felons.
Well, there is, and SCOTUS has said as much. It's in that pesky 9th Amendment. How do you grant women the right to vote if there is no intrinsic right to vote.
That's why the constitution is such a fascinating document. When it comes to voting, the Constitution, in the 19th Amendment, states "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.", which also covers your example of women voting, although not by granting them that right,but rather by preventing the states from denying the vote to anyone based on sex.
I would argue that the Constitution grants no rights other than the generic "life, liberty & pursuit of happiness". Others were not enumerated due to the fear that any left out could be deemed to be granted or denied at the whim of government. The 9th Amendment was designed to clarify that point by stating "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
While it might be argued that the 9th Amendment guarantees all rights, the 10th Amendment contradicts the notion by declaring that "all powers not granted to the federal government by the Constitution, nor prohibited to the States, are reserved to the States or the people."
So, since the right to vote is granted or denied by the states, I would say that the Federal Government has no say in the matter unless discrimination by one of the constitutionally protected conditions such as race, sex or religion is apparent.
In the spirit of the long and storied history of constitutional interpretation, others may feel free to disagree.
I wasn't trying to make light of anyone's problems. Losing everything is devastating. But these aren't the ones we see on the news fighting over a tank of gas. Really, these people need to just sit tight and wait. Power will be restored. It really will. They have to keep in mind it was a 900 mile wide storm. they aren't the only ones affected.
Having been through this myself, I can say Greggs tip about the ice in the jug is spot on. Ice is the number one thing, cause with that, a small jar of mayo and some bread and sandwich meat, you have food. No need to cook it. And charcoal is needed to grill all that stuff that thaws in the freezer cause then it lasts longer and can be sliced to eat cold. Trust me, I've been there. Oh and one of those little bunsen burners, or a homemade one from a tuna can and cardboard cause everything looks better when you have had some coffee. And if you grind your own, be sure to grind some and have it in the freezer cause no power is no power!
And the greatest commodity is patience. The ability to step back, take a breath and know that this isn't forever. And really, you don't need to have a full tank of gas, cause, the storm is over. It's done. There is no where to go anyway. If you didn't feel the need to fill up your tank before the storm, as I'm sure you were told to, there is no need now. Just because the lines are long doesn't mean you need to join them.
We talk about this all the time on these forums but do we really mean what we say. I mean, we think we are prepared but if we were to go out right now and shut off the power, without warning the family, how would we all fare? Saying and doing are completely different.
We talk about this all the time on these forums but do we really mean what we say. I mean, we think we are prepared but if we were to go out right now and shut off the power, without warning the family, how would we all fare? Saying and doing are completely different.
I'd have to get more toilet paper in about 2-3 months. Other than that, no problem, plenty of wood for heat, oil for light, fuel for various needs, water, food, ...
Adversity doesn't build character, rather it reveals it...........I really like that
I can't stop watching and my heart is so bursting for all of these people, but they are not the first people in the world
to have horrible things happen.
It is too late now but hopefully we can all learn from all of this.
The people that are reacting the worse are the ones who were not prepared, would not leave their home when they were told to and even now they could still go to shelters but won't (because nothing else seems to be as important as their homes & pocessions it was more important to stay and protect their stuff then themselves and often their children).
If you had at least 72 hours of food and water you would not have been in this big a panic so soon....I don't think any government can provide door to door hot meal service to every person and a genorator in every home.
Thankfully, I have only been in this position once in my life but, we were without power for 4 days and many people were without it for weeks in Ontario/Quebec, Canada in January.
We had food, granted it was cold but, we were fine, we bundled up a lot and got past it......Helped out were we could and offered whatever we had to neighbours.
Knowing this is not easy for anyone but, it is not going to be fixed quickly. These homes and communities can not be fixed and/or replaced in a week. Really some of these people are going to need a reality check, sorry if that sounds harsh but, it will help them get past this.
Really this was a natural diaster, not something anyone person caused. (we are all gulity to some degree in Climate Change, but that is a whole other story).
I am not hearing enough people (especially today) saying I having only lost stuff; I still have what is important my family, friends and community.
Bae...lol yes, I need some more toilet paper too or it could be the time to start cutting up the old tshirts...........
If you had at least 72 hours of food and water you would not have been in this big a panic so soon....I don't think any government can provide door to door hot meal service to every person and a genorator in every home.
This is an important point.
72 hours, 3 days, is about the *minimum* the Red Cross, local governments, and FEMA recommend you prepare to be on your own for, in the aftermath of some disaster that interrupts supplies. It is *trivial* to meet this standard for most people.
I'll quote a section from my county's Emergency Management website, with a sentence bolded:
It is up to you to ensure that you and your family are prepared. Doing nothing means you’re counting on others to take care of you. The island way is to be prepared. Keep it simple, start today.
People who don't prepare to at least the minimum standards are interfering with deploying resources to those who *really* need help, are becoming part of the problem themselves, and are not in a good position to be able to help out their own community when Something Happens.
This is immoral, IMNSHO.
Exactly, what I think I was trying to say Bae........a lot of these people have not taken any responsibility for themselves or their families.
A lot do not seem to be needy or uneducated people.
And, yes they have made it a lot more difficult to get help to areas that really need it, and could not help being in need.
This was not a sudden happening, there was a lot of warning, and time to prepare.
Agree it is immoral to take resources that would be better used.
I have easily 72 hours of groceries already conveniently stored under my belt...
hehe..............me tooo..............
ApatheticNoMore
11-3-12, 12:04am
Haha, yea but have you ever fasted? Because it can be a lot harder psychologically than you think. It's true you will not die for quite a long time without food if you have water. There are days I do a day fast with relative ease (still a little hungry) but other days I set out to and just can't do it, I'm just too hungry, about to eat my arm, I'm just floored with desire for food. Really store some canned goods, you don't want to try to become ghandi in an emergency situation. :~)
I have fasted... And yeah, it is hard! Cranky-pants land...
Haha, yea but have you ever fasted? Because it can be a lot harder psychologically than you think.
It's not particularly troublesome, if it is something you have experienced before. Best to do so before a high-stress event.
I often head out for walk-abouts with very little food, and have gone many days without. I've not ever understood the focus on the various reality-survival shows to "get food, NOW!". I go for shelter from exposure and good water first. Food can wait. A loooong time.
But the way these people live, who were hit the hardest......houses right up next to each other....I don't think they probably have had to need to think about stocking up on food and water, gas, etc. They live in these kinds of areas because they like it.......closeness to neighbors/stores/gas stations, etc. They probably buy groceries a couple times a week and only buy what they need for a meal or 2. People who live away from this kind of population density seem to be more aware of needing to stock up. Sometimes it hard to stock up and have all this stuff take up room and get old, when you've never really needed it. Who ever thought a disaster like this would happen? They live in a way that I could never live.....so its hard for me to imagine.
And I think some of us are talking about different groups of people. I've mostly been talking about the people who've lost their homes or their homes are uninhabitable. I agree about the people who just want gas for their cars and are waiting in line for hours and getting impatient and angry.....yes, these people are not being reasonable.
I can't imagine not having food. I'm not sure how I would react. I think very few of us really know true hunger.
The Storyteller
11-3-12, 9:39am
More people should watch Doomsday Preppers. And not just to laugh at their crazy fears.
But the way these people live, who were hit the hardest......houses right up next to each other....I don't think they probably have had to need to think about stocking up on food and water, gas, etc.
Everyone should think about it. If you're pantry is at the bottom of the Atlantic with the rest of your house that's certainly a different matter than simply being without a refrigerator and a TV. I could not agree more with the notion that taking resources from someone truly in need because you are inconveneiced and/or were unprepared is immoral. The Zone A's were reasonably well defined so the primary emphasis of prudent preparation for those people was just to get out. Thankfully most of them did.
For the rest of them (us) having all the basics on hand in anticipation of power outages, lack of heat and most services, etc. should be their (our) responsibility. Once again that old nemesis of personal responsibility rears its head. People will buy anything if the message gets repeated often enough. Maybe we just need a series of constantly running PSA's featuring 'dependence avoidance in a disaster' tips. Just for grins hire Morgan Freeman and Clint Eastwood to do them. Hey, they've teamed up before...
CathyA
The people I am talking about are mostly in the Zone A and of course having food would not have helped most, they needed to leave before.
That's why the constitution is such a fascinating document. When it comes to voting, the Constitution, in the 19th Amendment, states "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.", which also covers your example of women voting, although not by granting them that right,but rather by preventing the states from denying the vote to anyone based on sex.
I would argue that the Constitution grants no rights other than the generic "life, liberty & pursuit of happiness". Others were not enumerated due to the fear that any left out could be deemed to be granted or denied at the whim of government. The 9th Amendment was designed to clarify that point by stating "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
While it might be argued that the 9th Amendment guarantees all rights, the 10th Amendment contradicts the notion by declaring that "all powers not granted to the federal government by the Constitution, nor prohibited to the States, are reserved to the States or the people."
So, since the right to vote is granted or denied by the states, I would say that the Federal Government has no say in the matter unless discrimination by one of the constitutionally protected conditions such as race, sex or religion is apparent.
In the spirit of the long and storied history of constitutional interpretation, others may feel free to disagree.
That's true. We began with the vote (generally) limited to white male property-owners who had attained a certain age, with specific qualifications determined by the various states. That was perfectly allowable under the constitution. Over time, either the states extended the franchise to additional groups, or the constitution was amended to prohibit excluding certain groups. For the past century and a half, this has generally been the work of the Republican Party.
Square Peg
11-3-12, 7:09pm
That's the potential forecast. Obviously no one wants that to happen, everyone in Sandy's path has enough problems without it. Since everything north and east of Washington is blue I doubt it would have any impact on the election outcome. If the vote in NY is 2 for Obama and 1 for Romney the electoral votes go to Obama. Even so, very low voter turnouts have a way of occasionally producing unpredictable results. I'm pretty civic minded, but if someone's boat is in my dining room and its windy and starting to snow voting might not be my top priority. Tuesday is going to be an interesting day.
I am sorry, I am feeling dense right now. Why does the color of the state make it not important to the outcome? Do you mean as opposed to it being a swing state?
I am sorry, I am feeling dense right now. Why does the color of the state make it not important to the outcome? Do you mean as opposed to it being a swing state?
Every vote is important, but in most elections there are states that are won by a large margin and some that are very close. Most northeastern states aren't close. As a purely practical matter, the Democratic majority in that region is significant enough that the electoral votes in most states will likely still go to Mr. Obama even with a very low voter turnout.
Square Peg
11-5-12, 8:06pm
Gotcha, thanks
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