What if your candidate loses? [Archive]

Florence

11-3-12, 8:42pm

goldensmom

11-3-12, 8:51pm

Yes.

studentofecology

11-3-12, 8:52pm

I will judge whoever wins based on their actions and how well they do their job.

freein05

11-3-12, 8:57pm

Move

bae

11-3-12, 9:13pm

I will judge whoever wins based on their actions and how well they do their job.

+1. No politician gets my a priori "support" until he/she earns it. No politician is "owed" support, nor does my duty to my fellow citizens require me to blindly support someone just because they "won".

Zoebird

11-3-12, 9:15pm

oh well. i've been through it before. we'll survive. :)

redfox

11-3-12, 9:17pm

This will be my father's 13th Presidential election. He's managed through candidates he was happy with and candidates he abhorred. He is my role model.

I don't see myself as "supporting" the President, I see myself as continuing to work for the values I hold to be dear to me in my community. If they happen to be congruent with current electeds at any level, then yahoo. If not, my work will continue.

I have learned, now that I am in my late 50's, to take the long view. And, that the scale of change I can impact is local. No matter if my non-preferred candidate wins and all the scary prognostications come about... I'll continue to build the social structures I think are most beneficial, in solidarity with my brothers & sisters.

puglogic

11-3-12, 9:21pm

I don't have a candidate. I have a country, and have specific things I'd like to see our country evolve toward. I voted for the candidate I think best serves my interests in that regard. If another candidate wins, I'll still support my country and still work toward my ideal vision of it.

bae

11-3-12, 9:29pm

I have learned, now that I am in my late 50's, to take the long view. And, that the scale of change I can impact is local. No matter if my non-preferred candidate wins and all the scary prognostications come about... I'll continue to build the social structures I think are most beneficial, in solidarity with my brothers & sisters.

Well said, Redfox.

The Storyteller

11-3-12, 9:36pm

Not gonna happen.

ApatheticNoMore

11-3-12, 10:05pm

I dont' know what it means to support them.

I've rehearsed how I'd feel if each one won. And in both cases it's a sad disappointment (you want a lesser evil? you can likely guess who, but I feel dirty when I even think it, I need to bathe now!).

I think protest is more patriotic. I think saying no is patriotic. I don't see oweing my fellow citizens in terms of support of dear leader. I kinda DON'T BLAME most of my fellow citizens though, ok some of their politics may be strongly disagreeable, their apathy on many things hard to fathom, but if you are merely talking about this particular case they really did have two bad choices. I should support the elected because my fellow citizens really believe in him? Some do, but even more don't vote or were just voting lesser of two evils and the results are sure to be close. So I don't even see that as true. I should support our leaders to keep the peace? That's a very old conservative position, and there are times where the peace is best kept and there are risks to not keeping it. But if those times don't alternate with times of protest, systems grow more and more rigid and corrupt (um that would be right about now! corruption building upon corruption - a real challenge is overdue, there are risks to endless docility as well and they are *plenty* real). If I owe my fellow citizens anything it is to speak up about threats and things that stand to hurt them big, that's what I owe them.

Florence

11-3-12, 10:26pm

By support, I mean respect for the person who holds the office. I don't mean to hold them on a pedestal, rather to give courtesy to someone who has been chosen according to the rules of the land. I must admit that if my candidate is not elected about the best I can do is respect the office holder and continue on with my own projects. DH has said that if the election goes the other way, he will not pay any attention at all to politics for the next 4 years.

bae

11-3-12, 10:34pm

redfox

11-3-12, 11:32pm

Bae, not my original comment, but I read it as meaning maintain civility. Again, the older I get, the more important I find it to be to remain civil, even & especially in the heat of deep disagreement.

Now, y'all have plenty of examples in these fora of my incivility! Civility remains aspirational for me as a committed practice, and I get better every year... Feel free to remind me.

bae

11-3-12, 11:43pm

Bae, not my original comment, but I read it as meaning maintain civility.

But what would *that* mean? Using the proper forms of address when sending them letters or meeting them in person? It is not as if most of us asked the original question interact with the President on a frequent basis.

In my community, alas, "civility" has become a codeword for "don't rock the boat, don't go against The Received Wisdom Of Your Betters", and is a word used to stifle productive discourse:

http://trojanheron.blogspot.com/2012/04/shaddap-you-face.html

redfox

11-4-12, 12:35am

But what would *that* mean? Using the proper forms of address when sending them letters or meeting them in person? It is not as if most of us asked the original question interact with the President on a frequent basis.

In my community, alas, "civility" has become a codeword for "don't rock the boat, don't go against The Received Wisdom Of Your Betters", and is a word used to stifle productive discourse:

http://trojanheron.blogspot.com/2012/04/shaddap-you-face.html

Speaking, again, only for myself. Civility is owning one's opinions, understanding that they are opinions, and that people can have differences of understandings of facts. That being in relationship is far more important than being right. That discourse must be respectful; no interrupting, no name calling, no contempt or disrespect in tone.

Reagan's "There you go again... " to Carter was incredibly disrespectful, and broke a barrier in public discourse, IMHO. I find it highly regrettable. The manner in which aromney comported himself in the first debate was disgusting to me.

I have strong opinions, and a fairly good wit. I prefer to communicate respectfully even if tempted to use my wit & command of English to put someone down. The manner in which is equally as important, if not more so, that the what.

PS -- is this blog yours?

PPS -- who is Stephanie Buffum married to? I knew most of the Buffum family. And my Goddaughter, Madrona, runs Kwiat, out of the land trust house I built, and she now lives in. I've known her since she was 8 months old. Interesting that Kwiat is viewed as non-scientific by this blog writer.

iris lily

11-4-12, 12:39am

Are you going to support the man who wins the presidential election no matter who it is? ((please no long or disrespectful rants for your answer). For my part, I am grateful to say I was brought up to do just that even when disappointed with the results of the election. If necessary, I will do it again. We as citizens of the United States owe it to each other. IMHO.

What does "support" mean? I will be paying income taxes so will be funding his programs no matter how ridiculous they will be. That seems like "support" to me.

bae

11-4-12, 12:42am

Speaking, again, only for myself. Civility is owning one's opinions, understanding that they are opinions, and that people can have differences of understandings of facts. That being in relationship is far more important than being right. That discourse must be respectful; no interrupting, no name calling, no contempt or disrespect in tone.

You sound like a good sort of person to have as a neighbor :-)

PS -- is this blog yours?

No, it's some folks from Lopez primarily.

redfox

11-4-12, 12:54am

You sound like a good sort of person to have as a neighbor :-).

Thanks. Ditto. In Sh'Allah, I may yet be your neighbor, if I get the chance to move back to SLopez...

bunnys

11-4-12, 8:51am

I believe that if one is disrespectful to the Office of the Presidency or the President that the outcome is detrimental to the health of the country as a whole. So I would accept the new president and refer to him as my president.

However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't fight (probably through contact with my elected legislators to defeat anything he proposes that I think would be detrimental to me personally or the country as a whole.

Redfox: Don't you mean your 13th presidential election?

Zoebird: I'm usually on the side of the loser so it's not anything I'm not used to either.

LDAHL

11-4-12, 9:19am

I don't think you need to support the man so much as support the system. There is no last word in our form of government, so there will always be a place for loyal opposition. Worshipful reverence for individual leaders is a hallmark of the sort of system our constitution was written to avoid.

Alan

11-4-12, 11:48am

Are you going to support the man who wins the presidential election no matter who it is?.....We as citizens of the United States owe it to each other.
Whoever wins will be my president, but I don't feel a particular duty to support any president's ideas, policies or actions. I must remain true to my convictions and support what I consider to be the correct path and resist what I consider to be wrong.

I will always respect the office but I believe what I truly owe my fellow citizens is my ability to not support harmful policies or actions.

Birchwood

11-4-12, 11:48am

I'm independent, but after reading a lot and studying the candidates, I will vote for the incumbent. If the other guy wins, I will accept it, and I know he has no clear solutions and will be voted out the next time. If he really stinks, it will not take much time to find out. That is the beauty of democracy.

Rogar

11-4-12, 3:06pm

I can only hope that if the wrong candidate wins his performance will result in some sort of backlash with better prospects for the office in the next election. While there are some distinct differences between the two I don't find either to have especially refreshing and visionary ideas and plans for the future.

I wonder who Rush and the other ultra right wing media mongers will pick on if their favorite whipping boy is defeated.

peggy

11-4-12, 3:23pm

If Romney wins, he of course will be my President. I really don't have any choice. I would truly wish him success in that I want my country to succeed. I just hope his vision of national success isn't maximize profits for the 1% and hope it trickles down (but if it doesn't, it's still good, right?) Unfortunately, we all know EXACTLY what he thinks of nearly half of the country. He said it, and unlike most of his adoring fans, I actually believe him on that.
I frankly think he is a bag of hot gas that doesn't really have any ideas except that he wants to be President, desperately. He is a thoroughly unlikable person (even other republicans don't like him) but if his policies and actions were to actually help this country without trashing most of the good of living in this country, I'd be pleased.
However, no matter who wins, if let alone, the country is on it's way back due to the policies and actions President Obama has taken, so if Romney wins he gets a free ride and credit for Obama's hard work. That I would not like to see.

goldensmom

11-4-12, 3:34pm

I kept my answer short, ‘Yes”, in my first reply but as others have more than one word replies I will expound a little on why I said yes. I was taught to respect my elders - kiss grandma even though her whiskers were prickly and don’t argue with mom and dad even when it was clear (in my teenage mind) that they were wrong. I was taught to respect those in positions of authority and if I couldn’t respect the person then respect the position - that one got me through a lot of unpleasant work situations. In this election year, I choose not to speak ill of any candidate because it serves no positive purpose, usually just stirs emotions and ends in strife. I choose to support whoever wins whatever position from president to township supervisor and everyone in between because they will need support, prayers, good wishes, whatever to do their jobs whether I agree with their political position or not. I wish our country prosperity and charity toward all peoples; divisiveness and derisive behavior does not promote those goals.

Florence

11-4-12, 6:09pm

Yes', goldensmom, that's what I meant although I phrased it somewhat inelegantly...

Gregg

11-5-12, 9:44am

I will likely continue my practice of writing to whoever wins to express my thoughts and ask questions. If I feel their actions align with what I believe are the country's best interests I will tell them and will let others know that is how I feel, which I suppose qualifies as support. If (IMO) their policies are heading in a different direction I will express that. I respect the constitution and the offices created from that construct. As others have said, the men who hold those offices need to earn our respect by following through on the promises they have made and working to do what is best for the people they represent. If they do that they will have my respect, regardless of party affiliation.

catherine

11-5-12, 9:55am

I've learned over the years that I'm not always right :)

Even in politics, I've been surprised on occasion. I am independent, but definitely Democratic leaning and vote Democrat A LOT. But I've seen some really great Republican leadership--for example, I'm so happy that my pic for NJ governor didn't win and we got Chris Christie instead.

So, I'm not going to pull an Alec Baldwin and threaten to leave the country if a Republican gets in. If Mitt Romney gets in, he may surprise me and be a very visionary leader. I'm most afraid of the impact on healthcare and the environment--so we just have to be sure there's enough legislators in the House and Senate that will carry the torch for my values, and work myself to be the change I want to see.

freein05

11-5-12, 1:00pm

Well I changed my mind. I will not move. If I survived 8 years of Bush 2 I can survive MIT 1 I hope it will only be one term.

Gardenarian

11-5-12, 3:09pm

Whoever wins will be my president, but I don't feel a particular duty to support any president's ideas, policies or actions. I must remain true to my convictions and support what I consider to be the correct path and resist what I consider to be wrong.

I will always respect the office but I believe what I truly owe my fellow citizens is my ability to not support harmful policies or actions.

+1

I've never believed in "My country, right or wrong." If there is something wrong, then it our duty as citizen's to do what we can to correct it.

freein05

11-5-12, 3:21pm

+1

I've never believed in "My country, right or wrong." If there is something wrong, then it our duty as citizen's to do what we can to correct it.

That is the way I feel after Vietnam I can never support My country, right or wrong.

ApatheticNoMore

11-5-12, 3:22pm

I'll continue pounding VERY VERY angrily on my keyboard. I regret that I have only one carpal tunnel to give for my country.

But more seriously, when actually involoved in a discussion I think I *am* respectful. But I think power should be questioned hard and ruthlessly. How hard depends on what it is being used for. Dog catcher, meh, food stamps meh, sorry not my battle to fight those. But disposition matrixes, that's absolutely obscene (what I really think of that is a stream of obscenities). When involved with a discussion with people, in most cases I'm dealing with those who have no more power than I do (ie equally powerless citizens of empire) - the only power there is the potential for mass resistence and ....

But if talking about the most powerful man in the world, um, he has power, I have very very angry pounding on a keyboard to talk to my fellow citizens about it. And that's the truth, the ultimate reality of things. Sure I may also have the vote, the letter to the congressperson, some ability to protest. But still he has power, and by and large I don't. Period. He has power not only to affect overall wellbeing (economic, health etc.) through good or bad policy, but the very power of life and death over human beings, and possibly over the planet itself. I have tiny words sharpened to knives that fall like so many pointed pine needles to a ground already thick with them and are about as aerodynamic. But no I won't unilaterally disarm and give up my pine needles :)

The Storyteller

11-5-12, 3:36pm

But still he has power, and by and large I don't. Period.

I haven't found that to be the case at all. Not in my life.

Rogar

11-5-12, 3:48pm

My father was a WWII vet and pretty much preached that the commander in chief had unquestionable authority as part of the chain of command. I stopped thinking that basically with Nixon. On the other hand I think the President does deserve more respect than some occasions with his political contemporaries have illustrated. I think lines like Reagan's "there he goes again" comments to Carter were cheap cuts below the belt and not behavior of a gentleman.

The Storyteller

11-5-12, 3:55pm

My father was a WWII vet and pretty much preached that the commander in chief had unquestionable authority as part of the chain of command.

I agree with your father. But only in the case of the military. It always irritates me when the MSM call any president "our commander in chief", not matter which president. Someone did it the other day during the Sandy relief thing. He's not my commander in chief. He is my president.

The only commander in chief I have ever had was Richard M Nixon, and then only because I was an active duty Marine.

gimmethesimplelife

11-5-12, 3:56pm

This is a good question, expecially given that the latest polls are showing a dead heat between the two. What do I do if my candidate loses? Well, I won't be happy that's for sure. I will see if Medicare goes on vouchers - that seems to me to be a cue to leave, ESPECIALLY if the military is not cut. Cutting Medicare but not the military sends to me the message that money means more than human life, can I live with that and remain in the US? I don't know, I just don't know. For me this election is quite weighty as it is about weighing if remaining in the US is a viable long term option. So I have a much more radical take on this than the other posters here. And for whoever posted my country right or wrong - actually I think they posted that after Vietnam they could not think this way - the day they were passing the ability to see things this way out, I called in sick I think lol. Rob

ApatheticNoMore

11-5-12, 3:58pm

I think it's very odd that my comment was read as power over one's own individual life. Yes, what I meant to say is if your love life is in the tubes, then BLAME Obama! No, I mean power over declaring wars (unilaterally is not constitutional but it's happening anyway), power to enforce the NDAA, power over the disposition matrix, power over what truths get out there, power over what topics are even discussed (climate silence), power to veto or approve keystone pipelines, power over how well deep sea drilling is regulated, power to make deals on entitlement programs etc.. If you want to make a balance of power with congress argument, yes agreed that's how it's supposed to work and sometimes still does, but the President in many areas increasingly acts alone. It's still if not *the*, at least one of the most powerful positions in the world.

Look if you have enough money and are docile enough you can probably do ok no matter how bad things get (short of the powerful one actually you know hitting the nuke button or environmentally driven crisis to the point of total human extinction). But the more vulnerable you are the harder you will be hit by larger forces. Look at Greece, at how human beings will die (for lack of medicines etc.), due to larger HUMAN CAUSED forces they had no part in. But the U.S. is not Greece. I don't even pretend it is. It's an example of no man is a (Greek) island or something.

oldhat

11-5-12, 4:19pm

The Storyteller

11-5-12, 4:22pm

I would argue that individuals working collectively toward a common cause have a great deal more power over their own lives than any president. I didn't like the way our food is being raised or the way our government is allowing it to be done. I could whine and cry about it to the government I suppose, but I instead did something about it. I got involved in producing food for myself in a humane and ecologically sound manner and am sharing it with those in my community.

And not only am I do it for myself and my community, I'm helping others do it themselves.

Then of course there are the day to day things individuals can do for the environment or their community. If everyone did this, it will have a great deal more impact on the environment than any government action. Big business didn't start caring about the environment until their customers did. Heck, even Walmart is now selling organic vegetables and humanely produced eggs.

ApatheticNoMore

11-5-12, 5:19pm

Ok, so it's not just an "I've got mine argument" but somewhat of an anarchist flavored argument (anarchism is much about working together without government in addition to opposition to all existing power structures and about all that is possible through every other means but the political structure). Ok I can go there, and it's better, much better, than "I've got mine", it recognizes common humanity and not just individuals.

I await such a world and the radical social conscienceness to make it possible! :) A better world is possible ... we are unstoppable!

But in the world as it exists now, I still think it's a reality that the decisions of the powerful can be devastating (say to be lax on deep sea drilling regulation - that ruins people's lives) and so it's perfectly ok to criticize that world and those who run it and to criticize harshly. Because they've got the power to make the rules, and against those rules we merely have our voices (and civil disobedience I guess).