moving to be closer to kids [Archive]

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 8:20am

Hi All, just wanted to summon your collective ideas and wisdom about a decision am trying to make. Sorry this is long, and probably a bit boring.

I would like to move closer to my grown kids, but am having trouble trying to make this decision and figuring it all out.

The first problem is that they live in 3 very different places. One is on West Coast, and it is too expensive and too far from my aging parents, so that is out. The other two are in Midwest, within 5 hours of where they grew up--they are about 5 hours apart.

One family is having a baby (yeah!!) but they live in a part of Midwest that I really do not want to live in--it felt unpleasant culturally to me when I was visiting (sort of racist/redneck?) and I can't see me or DH there--I adore my son and his wife but do not want to make them the entire focus of my every move, and there are not good job opportunities, and I don;'t think we would be happy there.

Other son lives up in Chicago, and we have been looking at places closer to their neck of woods. We like MI and WI very much--MI more affordable with better taxes; WI closer to old friends in Chicagoland. Husband's family in Chicago, lots of friends there. We have placed offers on 2 houses in WI only to have them fall apart because of property inspections.

Meanwhile, aging, sick parents are down south closer to us. But we have been asking them to move in with us, offering to move in with them, for 5 years now and is obvious THAT is not happening. Still, each time there is a crisis, they panic and want me to drive there immediately (9 hours).

Son in Chicago SEEMS to want us there, but is never available to go look at places and has not been willing to drive 2 hours to connect with us the last times we have been househunting--which feels pretty bad, since we have driven 2 days to get there. Yet he was VERY disappointed when the houses fellthrough and wants us there for holidays, etc. DIL wants to spend every holiday back home with her family, to we have not had Christmas with them for 6 years now, for example? Son says if we are up there, they will come up and spend weekends, etc. Can't figure out if DIL likes us or not, honestly. But we try to be kind and loving to her, and it really isn't our business if she doesn't like us--have not done anything to her, and we want them to be happy, and that is most important thing, that they love each other.

I am thrilled that the sons with wives have wives they love who love them, and thrilled new baby coming. We have no wish to be intrusive on anyone's lives, but seriously, during the holidays (heck, all the time) it feels as though we have no family. The kids are working hard and don't have time to come visit us down south. Oldest came out last year when we sent him a ticket--first time he'd been to visit us in 5 years. We sent DIL a ticket too but she was working and could not come.

We were a very close family once, and this is seriously depressing. For goodness sake, I miss my kids.

It would just be nice to live somewhere where we could at least see all closer kidsevery other month or so, and the farther son twice a year. And still be able to cope with my fading parents.

Finally, not sure my health is going to be great going back up north. I have COPD and down south I can breathe and function--have not been hospitalized in 3 years, knock on wood. I feel let down that I am always supposed to figure this out around everyone else's needs, solve all problems, drive all places, figure out what to do with pets while visiting kids (they do not want the dogs in house,for example, so we have to get a motel). I feel we hve done nothing but knock ourselves out trying to visit them according to their schedule, help out financially, etc. etc. but not feeling a whole lot of concern coming back our way.

That is not really fair--varies from son to son. The one who is having the baby is a total sweetheart,and once drove 11 hours so see me and stayed with me 3 days after last hospitalization so i would not be sick and alone.

AGh. I just want a house with room for my books and dishes, where they can come every other month, or 4 times a year, and have a meal with us. I want to know my grandchildren, unlike my parents, who did not even meet their granddaughter til she was 4 years old. They say to me, "Why in the world would you move to be closer to your kids? Why do you have this need to be close to your family? How odd." (I always felt like Marilyn Munster growing up.)

Thoughts, anyone?

My therapist said, if they were not in the picture, either generation, what would you do, and I said, stay down south, or move to Florida with a farmette for my horse and be able to ride year round.

But they are in the picture, and I miss them, and I do not want to be like my parents, isolated, cut off from all family, in a world of their own. They are facing end of life issues now, and it makes you think about how you want to face your own end of life issues. I would like to put down deeper roots in a community and have support in my home community, friends, a better job, etc. But keep holding back here because keep trying to move back up closer to the family.

artist

11-13-12, 8:58am

Personally I wouldn't move to be closer to my son unless that is what my plan would have been if he wasn't in the picture.
Sure I can make my home anywhere.... but I strongly believe that there is more to being home and feeling "at home" than proximity to family you won't see more than a handfull of times each year. Does the area offer you what you want and need? Is the weather there best for your health? Is there community for you to plug into in reguard to your hobbies and interests? Is there a faith community that you feel you could actively plug into? Do your dreams of how you would love to spend your retirement years (outside of spending time with family) pan out in this area of the country? Or would you be compromising?

Also consider how often you would likely get to see each other. Due to my dh and my work schedules we don't often get off more than one day a week. To travel to my inlaws 2 1/2 hours away and back in one day plus visiting time on our only day off is exhaustive. Sounds like you son also felt that the four hour round trip drive plus time to househunt with you would have been too much. So even though we are close location wise, we only see each other three or four times a year.

Personally I'd stay put until I was ready to move for my own reasons for wanting to move... farm land, riding trails, horse community, house with room for books etc... and move where I wanted to (not considering family). Then save up and travel to visit them and your other children from time to time.

Float On

11-13-12, 9:14am

What happens if you move north and then they get a job transfer/offer to California?
I think you should live where you want...if it's FL. Go to FL. Your kids are welcome to come visit, you are welcome to make a trip north. Sounds like all the kids are in their late 20's/early 30's. Give them a few years and they may change their minds and be more willing to come visit you.

Florence

11-13-12, 9:24am

Ah, the mama hen wants to gather her chicks under her wings! Very understandable. But they are grown and have their own lives to get on with. We are so fortunate these days to have email and webcams and Instagram to stay close to our scattered chicks. In today's mobile society and job market, it is likely at least one of your children will move for employment. You won't be doing anyone a favor if you move to a climate that makes you sick all the time. Live where you are healthy and have a welcome mat out for visiting chicks and grandchicks.

shadowmoss

11-13-12, 9:28am

My parents moved to Nashville to be near me. Luckily they also liked the weather and were trying to get away from the extremes in the Kansas City area. 10 years later I had to move. The last couple of years of my Dad's life when Mom could have used my help I was in Washington State and she was away from her family back in Missouri. After Dad passed, Mom moved back to Kansas City. I don't consider that area home, but it is where I go on my vacations back to the States now. All that to say that in a few years kids may need to move for jobs, no matter what else is going on. I would not suggest moving to an area you didn't like just for that reason.

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 9:28am

Thanks for your interesting thoughts!

Have any of you actually made a move to be closer to your grown kids, and how did it turn out for you?

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 9:35am

Want to add that no one is expecting anyone to drop everything on their day off and come make some grueling 4 hour round trip to see us.

We were talking about a 10 day trip we took off as our vacation, while we continued to telecommute, and we were asking kids to meet us halfway in between so we could buy them lunch. A four hour chunk of one Sunday in four years, LOL.

We work full time, more than one job, so that we can save for retirement. We just paid off one kid's college loans so they could get a better start. We have been sandwhich generation meeting everyone's needs, including dying parent. We have driven days to go to weddings, to visit them, at sacrifice of any real vacations to all of their needs. Not sure where this picture of demanding mama is coming from? Not me.

I feel like I'm being painted as a weirdo overbearing mother here, so guys, please could you lighten up and listen to what I am saying?

And yes, we are only considering places we would like to live, obviously, but kid have requested we be within a certain distance drive. It may not be possible, as we do not want to undertake a big mortgage to live near where they live, as it is not affordable to us.

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 9:43am

Yes, with job situations these days, any of them could move anywhere at any moment, I do get that, and thanks for pointing this out.

Shadow, it sounds like your parents did what we are talking about--tried to find an agreeable place a bit closer to you.

Float On

11-13-12, 9:45am

My parents looked at several properties to be closer to me, but they just couldn't give up what they had (big farm, community, their own siblings within 2 hours drive) and I've never wanted to stay here for life. I wanted to move further west or east. Course now, all I think about is moving back home to the farm to be near them (I'm 45, 2 years from having the kids off to college).

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 9:52am

I tried to post something, Float, but I think I lost the post--sorry if it double posts. Just wanted to say it's nice that you all wanted to be closer, and it sounds like your folks went through this decision process, too. Very complicated, as you point out.

And yeah, I have far more desire to be near my aging parents in their final years than I did when I was in 20's or 30's; at that point I was more kid focused than now, obviously.

It's funny, we used to watch the Waltons and think it was wonderful, not realizing that we were living the Waltons.

Rosemary

11-13-12, 10:11am

I think that your COPD is a serious issue to consider in location. My great-aunt has this and cannot go outside for months every winter (upstate NY). She spent a few months with a friend in FL every year until she was unable to travel.

My parents moved a few years ago. Their motivation was to be closer to their grandkids either in MN or OR. They moved to OR, but are 4 hours from my brother. They see their grandkids only a little more than they did when they had to travel by air.

I can see both sides of this issue, because I've seen what has happened with my aging grandparents and am now experiencing it with my parents. One grandmother lived with my family. That wasn't a great solution for the personalities involved. My other grandparents are in assisted living far from two of their kids, who are in constant stress due to hearing about falls and other health issues for their beloved parents thousands of miles away. They travel there 2-3x/year each at substantial cost. We're in the mode of traveling to see my parents, too. I wish there were a better solution, but I don't see it. My parents chose where to move, and they chose a location nearer the child that was less likely to put effort into caring for them. On the one hand, I'm off the hook for a lot of stuff, not to mention that if we were to end up moving, I don't have to feel responsible for them coming here. On the other hand, I enjoy spending time with them and would like to be able to help them more.

AmeliaJane

11-13-12, 10:17am

One thing my parents have considered to see their faraway grandchildren is to rent a little furnished apartment nearby for a couple of months in the winter. (It helps that the grandkids live somewhere where the January weather is much nicer!) Plus the kids would probably take you less for granted if you were only there for a few months, but there would be less pressure than if you are visiting for a few days. Or maybe something along the lines of housesitting? That would also give you a chance to test the waters with some of the inlaw dynamics you're not sure of.

EDITED: Sorry, I just saw that you were concerned about job opportunities, so you probably aren't as flexible with temporary moves (I assumed you were retired like my folks). Maybe the rental is an idea to tuck away for the future...

Amaranth

11-13-12, 10:27am

If you went for the Florida community now, you could put down roots and work on get everything you would like in your daily life. To start with, you could live in a small frugal house and save up for the small farm. Then get one where you could have/build a ground floor inlaw apartment.

Choose a place in easy driving distance of places families with kids would like. Avoid anything close to areas of flooding or hurricane damage. Avoid being too close to spring-break magnets.

Then start a family tradition of meeting in your area in March or April when it would be really a nice contrast to the weather conditions in the midwest.

In the meanwhile, work with your parents to create a list of who to call/hire in times of crisis. Prescreen the agences and file info with the agencies, so they can come in quickly in times of crisis. This means that when they have a crisis, it won't necessarily become your crisis.

For all the relatives, set up time to skype on a regular basis. You can also read books to your grandchildren over the internet.

This way you can create a really good situation for yourself and then invite them to join you periodically and enjoy it with you. Otherwise your life is on hold and everyone else is mostly using you at their convenience.

As the grandchildren get older, they can come visit for a week or two in the summer.

sweetana3

11-13-12, 10:34am

Big very hard decision. Regarding vacations, when we both worked, I had to plan my vacations almost a year in advance. Even if you sent a ticket, if the time off was not approved in advance or an important project arrived, I would not have been able to leave. Your DinL may be in the same situation. Visiting relatives often took a big chunck out of a tiny bit of vacation which is why we did not see them as often.

My husband is an only child and for 35 years lived 600 miles away from his parents. They lived in a depressed area without jobs and with a horrible climate and high taxes. No way would we ever live there and they would not travel to us. Besides, his corporate job was here. Dad refused to leave and Mom of course stayed with him. Dad died a year ago and Mom decided she wanted to be near us (but not on top of us). We sold the house and she sold her stuff and moved. I think she loves it here. We have seen her more in 4 months than maybe 20 years and can help out so much more. Love taking her to lunch and all around. She is making new friends. Helps that she is so positive. She only lives 20 minutes away.

Maybe the time is just not right. You are thinking of the relationships but jobs and finance are critical. I dont believe the families will change their holiday traditions for you if you move. The daughter's in law are already established with routines for life and holidays.

How about visits and having one or more of the grandkids come visit when they are old enough? If you live in Florida or a vacation area, even better.

Just dont expect your kids to be much more concerned for you than they are right now. If they wanted a relationship, they would put in some effort. It might just be time of life. In the 20s and 30s, they are figuring out what they want in their own family. If you are not close enough to babysit, it is difficult when the grandkids come along. Traveling with kids will be three times more difficult.

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 10:36am

"Theymoved to OR, but are 4 hours from my brother. They see their grandkids only a little more than they did when they had to travel by air."

yeah, I wonder about that, too. 4-5 hour drive is far! 7 hour drive to son with grandbaby if we move to MI or Wi.

"think that your COPD is a serious issue to consider in location. My great-aunt has this and cannot go outside for months every winter (upstate NY). She spent a few months with a friend in FL every year until she was unable to travel."

We did live in upstate NY and had to leave, but of course down here feel so much better I tend to gloss over this. Maybe we need to think of splitting year between MI and SC or FL.

I hate having being sick run my life; chronic illness sucks.

There, rant over, LOL. Gotta stay positive,

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 10:37am

Thank you, AmeliaJane, your house sitting idea rental idea has me thinking about possiblity of splitting with northern home and southern RV or something like that. . . For the bad months, Dec-April

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 10:38am

Amaranth, so manyh good ideas here to process. A really interesting solution. . .

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 10:44am

"Dad died a year ago and Mom decided she wanted to be near us (but not on top of us). We sold the house and she sold her stuff and moved. I think she loves it here. We have seen her more in 4 months than maybe 20 years and can help out so much more. Love taking her to lunch and all around. She is making new friends. Helps that she is so positive. She only lives 20 minutes away."

Sweetana, this sounds so good for both your momand for you. If my dad passes first, this is what we envision.

"I dont believe the families will change their holiday traditions for you if you move. The daughter's in law are already established with routines for life and holidays. "

Well, no one is asking DIL family to change anything for us. Son has expressed irritation to us that in 7 ytears together, they have not spent a Christmas with us. We traveled to be near them last Thanksgiving at son';s request. Don't imagine that DIL and son will permanently travel to her parents, either, as that seems extgremely unreasonable and is a hardship to them and their work.

As to DIL and son traveling, they take frequent trips to be with her folks and family activities (4-5 per year) and frequent trips to out of town weddings. Just not to us, LOL. So maybe yeah, she hates us and resent having to travel to us. That makes me feel like sh*t, frankly.

Why is is assumed that mother-in-laws suck? There's a real bias against mother in laws that I see. I had a wonderful, dear mother in law in first marriage and would have happily moved her in with us. Did not know my second one, as she passed away, but she seemd to be a real sweetheart from all reports, a wonderful mother and loved all of her kids equally.

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 10:47am

"In the meanwhile, work with your parents to create a list of who to call/hire in times of crisis. Prescreen the agences and file info with the agencies, so they can come in quickly in times of crisis. This means that when they have a crisis, it won't necessarily become your crisis."

This is really good advice, Amaranth, but we are not getting very far with it--they are so fiercely independent, they will not allow anyone in, and mom then calls on me.

And no way she is going to assisted living without her shotgun and her chainsaw.

Glo

11-13-12, 11:15am

shadowmoss

11-13-12, 11:28am

I should also mention that with Skype I 'see' my Mom a couple of times a week, much more than we stayed in contact when we lived 30 minutes from each other. So, the fact that I'm in Honduras isn't as much of an issue. I wish we had done this when my Dad was still alive. My best friend and I have hour+ long breakfasts with each other over Skype once a month or so, taking time to run get another cup of coffee or potty break while on the call since it is free.

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 12:55pm

I would move to where I wanted to live and visit my children when I wanted and have them visit us when they wanted. In fact, that's exactly what we did 5 years ago and couldn't be happier. One son actually moved with us, one son lives 5 hours away, and one lives across the country in CA. DS1 who lives 5 hours away comes here for Thanksgiving and Christmas. We rarely go there, but we talk at least once a week. He travels a lot so he's very busy. We try to go to CA once a year even tho I hate CA. We moved close to where I grew up, so I've reconnected with high school friends and have extended family in the area. And we've made friends in oir neighborhood and community. Its been great!

Glo, this sounds awesome, like it meets eeryone's needs, or at least balances them really well. I think part of my challenge is the needs from parents and the needs from kids feel competing. Lots to think about.

I would love to reconnect with old friends in midwest, which was part of the reason we wanted to go back--we have done some reconnecting at weddings and it has been like going home again, awesome to be with people you have known for 30 years.

dado potato

11-13-12, 12:57pm

When DW and I retired, we considered that we could live anywhere we wanted. After looking several places over, we decided to move to live (in a rented townhouse) near kids (and preschool grandkids) in PA. A major career move caused that family to relocate to CA, and meanwhile another epsilon had come along in WI, so we moved to the northern highlands and bought a house. It's about an 80 minute drive to their suburban home.

I call that "close, but not too close". On some occasions it is convenient to meet the mom-dad at a halfway point and transfer the child carseat into our car, and have the grand-daughter in "the little girl's room" for a few days... then at the end of the idyll we return the grandchild to her parents at the halfway point.

In our case, DW and dil are remarkably close and affectionate, as one can see whenever either of them is in the other's kitchen, pitching in. (Unless there was good chemistry on the distaff side, I wouldn't even consider trying to get the families close. We would be better off cultivating our own companionships and interests where we truly like to be... and to echo one of Florence's ideas, we could accommodate them whenever they feel the need to connect with us.)

Incidentally, our plan for Thanksgiving is for DW and I to go to the nearby kids' house and supply/prepare a feast in their kitchen for all of us, plus a bachelor friend of theirs (and maybe one more, who knows?).

With the CA grandkids, Skype is awesome. I am (and DW is working on becoming) detached about the younger generation's decision to make the career move so far away. As I see it, we live in a mobile society, where there are immense incentives for someone with highly specialized technical skills to GO where the jobs are. I say we were fortunate to be close (but not too close... LOL) for the infancy and preschool years of those kids, before they moved away. As they grow old enough for school, I think prime time for grandma-grampa duty is finished.

When grandkids get older, there may be limited potential for them to travel to be with grandma-grampa, especially if there is icing on the cake, such as weather (sunny beaches) or other attractions (amusement park? muskie fishing?) But I would not bank on it!

I would not plead for togetherness at traditional holidays, as it sets up potential conflicts when kids are already expected by other folks to "go home" for the holidays somewhere else. My policy is to shrug. I can come up with other ways to close the family circle that don't produce conflict. And I attack my own holiday expectations ruthlessly, because I know that having simpler and lower expectations results in fewer disappointments.

I agree with Amaranth's suggestion about the old parents: rather than take on a role as care-giver to them, help them connect with resources where they chose to live out their days. And, if the parents seem stubborn about recognizing the need to have help, I might have to shrug about that too.

I gotta wonder, with COPD, would it really make sense to move into the Chicagoland climate? An alternative might be to see if the Chicago family would like to join with grandparents at a rented cabin (or -paying more for more services- to stay at a resort) in the splendid days of summer. Northern WI and MN have had lots of vacancies the past couple summers, so a renter can get a relatively good deal.

By the same token, even though it may be an area of the country where your liberal attitudes are alien, there might be delightful short-term rentals in the Ozarks or Tennessee that would dovetail with the schedules of the southern son's family. People who can't agree on religion or politics may nonetheless agree on the pleasures of bar-b-q !

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 1:26pm

"People who can't agree on religion or politics may nonetheless agree on the pleasures of bar-b-q"

Thanks, Dado, for the thoughtful post and the ideas therein. As to your last sentence, that was the motto of our kids' youth, and thus we spent a lot of time barbequing in back yard!! They always had friends in and we supplied the grub.

Husband's family does the northern lakes getaway (n northern WI) wher ethey used to vacation as kids, so we have tried including our kids on that, but as eveyrone has pointed out, nobody';s work schedule is flexible anymore,a nd thank God they have jobs.

West coast son has basically told all of us that we should not schedule the big family get togethers for the holiday season, as it is too difficult and stressful, and he has a good point. I hate traveling from November-December, for that reason, but both DIL's have asked that we travel then to them.

I tried to get everyone to come down to Tybee for spring break, but it just doesn't seem to happen.

Will keep thinking!
Oh well. I admire families who pull off the once a year get together, but haven't had success yet myself.

lmerullo

11-13-12, 2:26pm

Rodeo,

You have to decide what you value and pursue it... sounds to me like what you value and what your other family members value is not in sync, though. If you have been trying (for years?) to get the family together and can't do it, how will moving make it happen? It doesn't sound as if there is one "lone eagle" family that, if geographically closer, would then commit - causing the rest of the flock to attend as well.

From all you have described, I don't think a move on your part is going to facilitate more family togetherness. Sorry.

I am in a similar demographic as you. My mom and dh's mom are both aging / failing. Just lost dad six months ago. Lots of caregiver issues there. I have two children and three grandchildren. Trust me, juggling all the schedules is a challenge. When dd moved with her hubby and my only grandson, who was two years old at the time, and someone I had spent every other weekend and at least one weeknight with, to another state - well, dh and I just took vacations closer to them. After a year, they ended up moving back. We are all now located within a 45 minute radius. That said, it is often that we can't pull off a whole family together deal. My cousin from Australia was just here for a quick US visit and we could only pull together my mom, dh and I, and my youngest. My oldest and her family were already scheduled, and my granddaughter was out of town with her mom (not my son). About 50% attendance for a once-in-a-lifetime visit...oh well.

Spartana

11-13-12, 2:41pm

I haven't read all the responses yet so sorry if I repeat what's already been said.

Personally, I would choose to move closer to may ailing parents first (if they wouldn't move closer to me and I was considering moving anyways), and then make the decision whether to move closer to the kids (or one of the kids) after one or both of the elderly parents pass away. Your parents may need you to be near them fairly often and be unable to travel to be near you. Plus your kids are probably very busy with their lives anyways and you may find you will be much less involved in their day to day lives, and see them much less often, then you think you will if you live close by. This is something almost everyone of my friends parents experienced when they moved closer to their kids - the kids were just too busy to spend much time with their parents at all. The parents felt lonely and sad because they left their friends, activities, and community behind only to be in a strange place where they knew no one but their very busy and often unavailable kids. Almost all of them regretted the decision and wished they could move back home. However, because they had already sold their homes and bought new places, it wouldn't be easy for them to return "home" if they wanted.

However, if it's something you really want to do, I'd recommend trying it on a temp basis first. Rent a furnished, everything included vacation house for a month or two near which ever kid you decide you want to live near, and see how it goes before making any permanent change. It might cost a couple of thousand or more but if you end up not liking the move, you haven't made any permanent, unreversable changes yet.

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 4:07pm

We are all now located within a 45 minute radius. That said, it is often that we can't pull off a whole family together deal. My cousin from Australia was just here for a quick US visit and we could only pull together my mom, dh and I, and my youngest. My oldest and her family were already scheduled, and my granddaughter was out of town with her mom (not my son). About 50% attendance for a once-in-a-lifetime visit...oh well.

Yes, that is what recent get togethers have been like--somecould come, some could not. I am sorryfor the loss of your dad!

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 4:18pm

Thank, Spartana, I know what you mean about th e ailing parents, and have offered to move there on site or nearby. I think he would not like that and she would like that. Difficult dynamics, sometimes. And a difficult history and don;t think I could take being on site anyway, as there is a lifelong pattern of emotional abuse, and being there triggers a lot of depression and anxiety in me. (Therapist said absolutely do not go there to caretake; I am dealing with depression currently, and frankly can hardly stand visiting there. Last time I was there, for example, my dad was drinking steadily and blaming me for an amazing array of events, including the reign of Mary Queen of Scotts-- I kid you not. Was explaining why they did not want me going to church with them or take communion. It's a bizarre feeling, going home--they spent an hour at dinner discussing what a failure I ws in my first job because I could not learn to run the cash register because the boss kept yelling at me. All these years later, I am their only offspring with a job, and I am still a screwup in their eyes.) Thanks for sharing your experience of friends' parents who moved closer to kids. I can see why renting for a month would be a good idea, and if we went north, could gauge the climate and how being up there in the cold would do before moving.

But renting for a month sounds so stressful as we try to maintain our work schedules, the dogs, etc. I feel like a giant ship trying to turn around in a little harbor. But as my son said, Mom, it's only going to get harder to move, not easier (part of this is feeling I am disappointing him by not moving closer).

Am trying to work on boundaries and taking care of me, not everyone else.

JaneV2.0

11-13-12, 6:10pm

SteveinMN

11-13-12, 6:31pm

rodeosweetheart, my mom and dad did pretty much what you are talking about doing, though they were fortunate that all three of us kids settled within a three-hour distance of each other. Her father (my grandfather) remarried and moved to Puerto Rico (decades ago) and she always missed being able to visit and spend time with him and his new wife. Grandfather and new wife eventually divorced, but he chose to (had to?) stay in PR, and was never happy there. He died pretty much alone, with my parents scraping up the money to fly down for the funeral (no mean feat for them in those days). My mom wanted to make sure that did not happen to her. My dad was fine with going along for the ride; none of his siblings lived nearby and his parents were long dead, so there was no pull of relatives for either of them, really.

So they moved out to Minnesota. In the long run, I think my mom is happy she moved. I think my dad was, too, before he passed on about 15 years ago. She does spend time with her kids (no grandkids from any of us) and spouses, and she is good about sharing holidays with spouses families. The time is not always formally scheduled. My sister will visit on an afternoon each week when she is not teaching. I live across the street, so sometimes we go across the street for coffee or have her over for dinner. It has worked out very well for her. However, I need to say that she does not have a physical condition aggravated by Minnesota weather, nor was she leaving behind a faith community or social organizations.

In your situation. though, rodeosweetheart, I think the others are giving you sound advice. This does not seem like a good idea for now. You and DH have ties to work and community and a couple of other restrictions/strong preferences you want to honor. Your children are heavy into the stage of starting their careers and their families, and, while it sounds hurtful to say they're too busy, they simply may not have the energy right now to widen their circle much. It also sounds like, in the case of the one son, his wife's family is pretty strong on the notion of their spending the holidays together. Your parents may not be capable of living completely independently, but they think they can now, and so your atttempts to help out are not going to be met with cheers. Moving closer to them will not improve that.

I'd stay put and reconsider in another few years. Save the money you'd spend on moving to visit family when you need to. I think it will work out better for most, if not all of you.

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 6:51pm

Thanks, Jane, and Steve, sound advice, I think. Steve, your situation with your mom sounds like my dream situation--the casual get together when it's convenient, not a big 2 day cross country drive. And yeah, Minnesota is a tough climate, too. I think your mom probably felt somewhat what I feel--do not relish the thought of your granddad's last years.

And not trying to sound harsh aboutmy dad, who has depressionand alcoholism issues to cope with, not to mention metastisized cancer issues. It's just been tough to deal with his goign back and forth between the old abusive behavior and then calling me on phone in tears, telling me he is afraid. Never consistent, never in my lifetime, which is the story of life with alcoholic parent.

And yeah, Jane, unreasonable to expect to be his caretaker and God knows I don't want to. The favorite children, though, are smart and stay away, or in the one case, come around and sniff around the estate.

We were all damaged by the alcoholism, though, so I'm trying to just think about what I do and not get all caught up in what they do (siblins). Trying not to judge.

It's just tough to see my mom there, though. But I guess we all make our choices.

And Steve, I really get it that your mom looked at the end of life stuff around her dad's passing and resolved to be closer to her kids. I think that is what i am doing. Why I am wanting to do this, anyway.

awakenedsoul

11-13-12, 8:18pm

[QUOTE=rodeosweetheart;,Am trying to work on boundaries and taking care of me, not everyone else.[/QUOTE]

This sound like the best solution. I would do what is best for you. A lot of people feel like they have to be workaholics right now in order to keep their jobs. The demands on their time are so high. It makes it harder to have relationships. (I think.) I feel the same way with old friendships. I'm also in a redneck neighborhood, which is very foreign to me. I focus on hobbies, farming, exercise, spiritual practice, and my doggies.

I started meeting my parents in Carmel four times a year. They offered to pay for my gas and hotel room. They can easily afford it, and I probably would only go once a year if I was paying. Basically, when I see them we do everything their way. What they want, when they want, if they want, and how they want. That's been my new strategy....
There are some people that seem to me to be after their money, so this way I know what's going on...and other family memebers can't push me out of the picture. I have a lot of alcoholism in my family, too.

Family dynamics are intense. For me, having a creative outlet keeps me happy and centered. Not everyone has a happy family life. You can make up for it in other areas, though.

rodeosweetheart

11-13-12, 8:38pm

Basically, when I see them we do everything their way. What they want, when they want, if they want, and how they want. That's been my new strategy.

Yes, this is definitely my strategy when dealing with the parents. . .

pinkytoe

11-13-12, 8:57pm

From what I have seen by watching various family members, it usually doesn't fare too well for one party or the other to follow kids around. One aunt and uncle moved to PA to be near their growing grandchildren and rarely saw them since the kids were so busy and then decided it was too cold up there to stay. My brother and sil decided they were going to move closer to kids and didn't do so quick enough as the kids ended up taking other jobs and moving to another area of the country. I shudder to think if they had moved and then been stuck in unfamiliar territory after leaving so much behind in thier current home. Another thing I recall is that when we were young, we always kind of resented parental pressure to do family things when we had other plans. When we retire, we may take the opposite tactic and move away from our only child who lives here in our city. One, we respect her very independent life and two, we want to live in another climate and try something different. We are very close but even living in the same city, may only see each other once every few weeks. I can totally see moving closer to kids when you are declining in health but until then, I would say stay where you are and/or move for other reasons than trying to create family closeness.

Simplemind

11-13-12, 10:36pm

This topic is a big one for me. I have been married twice and the first husband had parents who moved every time he moved and expected something on the level of a peer relationship. There were no boundaries and there was constant pressure as to how they would feel about any decision we tried to make indepentant of them. The second is a firm believer of core family being first and foremost. Coming from a family that had a lot of traditions I tried to keep them up and when the torch was passed to me I had a hard time figuring out why I felt something akin to resentment over something that had always been important to me. I am finally letting go of that Norman Rockwell vision of family togetherness and this year I have drawn my boundaries. My mom died in February and that released a lot in me. There is alcohol in every corner of my family and believe me it skews the way you relate to everything. I have told my family that I am no longer hosting holidays, reunions or birthdays. If they decide to host there is a good chance I won't be coming. With divorces and step families it has become too hard to pin people down and the guest list can fluctuate from two to fourty two depending on who has custody on the holiday. I don't want to drive on a holiday and I don't like having to try to wrestle everybody for a commitment while they feel they are torn between two or more family obligations. I am not in anyway tied to a calendar date. I will host something when there is no competition outside our own family. If they can make it - great. If not that is OK too.

None of us live more than an hour away from my folks but my sibs might as well live in Siberia when it comes to helping my parents. I'm the oldest and least dependant on them but ended up being the one to be the most hands on as they began to decline. My Aunt and Uncle moved six times to be close to my Cousin and her husband. They moved as they pleased and her folks needs/wants did not enter into the decision making. It kind of became the family joke that they couldn't take the hint. My folks would have never considered moving to be close to any of us no matter where we were or how often they could see us. My mom moved across the country from her family and we were never encouraged to have a relationship with them. I met my grandparents once. My dad's family was tight and constantly together. Something in the middle and sober would have suited me just fine.

We don't live in small villages anymore. Both physically and mentally we spread out and friends in proximity become the new idea of family. I love my son more than life but I would not move just to be near him unless he had a catastrophic illness and needed and wanted me there. DH feels the same way about his kids. Living close doesn't make you close and if you want to see somebody often both sides will work to make it happen. Do what feels right to you and your husband as if nobody else exsisted.

Wildflower

11-14-12, 5:23am

I really think you should move to where your health will be the best. I certainly do understand about wanting to be close to your kids. DH and I are young retirees, but we both have health problems that limit our traveling these days. One DD is 3 hours away, another DD is 7 minutes away. We do our best to all stay connected, but they are both so busy with jobs and raising young kids. We probably see them about once a month, and I leave it up to them to plan when or where works for them. I don't put any pressure on anyone, because I remember how I resented both my parents and DH's parents intrusions into our lives and expectations that we spend every weekend with them, when we were exhausted from our jobs and raising kids, etc. Both sets of parents lived very close which in many ways made our lives harder, but there was both mental illness and alcoholism involved with both....

Of course, I understand you're not wanting for much from your kids - just an occasional meeting, get together, or meal together. Very reasonable on your part I think. But you have to let them come to you at this stage in your life or wait for them to invite you to visit them. I think they will want this more as they get older. Maybe so, maybe not. But in the meantime I think you should work on getting to where you really want to be and where you will be the healthiest. I think you would be miserable with your COPD in the midwest IMHO. I totally understand what you're feeling, and I know I treasure the memories when my girls were little and still under my roof. But things change, life goes on, and DH and I have found this to be a most special time in our life together. Finally we are able to focus on us, our relationship, and things that just we want to do together. Finally. It just feels decadent somedays.... :)

chrisgermany

11-14-12, 6:15am

I would stay put or move to what is best for my health.
If money is not the issue, I would rather the turns to visit the area where the kids live for vacation, maybe rent a vacation home or go by airbnb, and invite the grandkids to spend their vacation where I live.
Rather make regular appointments to connect by skype.
Even if you do not expect much and if they now encourage you to move closer, once you do it will slowly start to feel like a burden to them.

peggy

11-14-12, 9:32am

I agree with wildflower and everyone else. Move to where you will be happy, healthy, and can build community. Save your money for trips to visit the kids and leave the dog at home. Put him in a kennel so you can stay with the kids and really visit, as well as save money.
Your kids will appreciate the visits, and you more, especially when they see how happy and healthy you are.

JaneV2.0

11-14-12, 10:48am

We are a mobile people by nature, as a nation of immigrants. I'm surprised at how few people I know who haven't moved away from family when they came of age.

SteveinMN

11-14-12, 11:19am

We are a mobile people by nature, as a nation of immigrants. I'm surprised at how few people I know who haven't moved away from family when they came of age.
For whatever reason, that doesn't happen that much in Minnesota. People just don't tend to move out. There aren't so many that move in, either. It's not at all unusual to have entire generations of families still living in-state, especially people who grew up around the Minneapolis/St. Paul urban area (many kids moved from outstate because there just weren't jobs). Even in the case of job transfers, the goal always seems to be to come back.

Until retirement, when most Minnesota natives I know declare that they're sick and tired of winter and move to Arizona. :)

JaneV2.0

11-14-12, 11:29am

Those of us on the west coast come from people who moved here and kept moving. My relatives started out in Pennsylvania and Virginia and just kept migrating. Once we hit the coast, we started roaming north and south. Itchy feet.

domestic goddess

11-14-12, 12:01pm

Rodeo, I not only lived near my dd (only child), I moved in with her family!
Here's how it happened: I moved to Chicago with my dh waaay back in 1974. It is not a place I've grown real fond of, but we eventually were glad we were here because of his health problems. After he died, I stayed in our house, but eventually got tired of being alone, a little strange at times, and I was travelling back and forth to the western 'burbs to help my dd with first one, and then two, granddaughters. The driving was geting to me, and they were having some financial problems, and it just seemed easier to move in and help them out. What did I need a house all to myself for? So, that is what I did. Except for my family I would move back to Kentucky in a heartbeat, but now that both my parents are gone, and all that are left are my brother, his daughter and her children, and her new boyfriend I don't really see doing that. Those people seriously annoy me. We have worked things out so that we are mostly satisfied with the decision. I get to be a part of my granddaughters' everyday lives, I have help on those days when my joints aren't working so well, and I do a lot of the cooking and cleaning here, because I want to do it. With my dd's family's friends coming and going, I am in contact often with younger people, which I also enjoy, but I try not to be intrusive, and they have space in the basement where they entertain, so noise and smoke aren't problems. I rarely go downstairs, but I am welcome to join them. Since I work at night, I enjoy my rare nights at home, though. All in all, it works out. I was not as close (geographically) to my mom as I would have liked, but visited as often as I could and was with her during her final illness. My dad died several years ago. My brother continues to live in their house, and I expect it will have to be razed when he is done with it.
However, I wouldn't move only to be with your kids, if you aren't sure that you will even see them more often than you do now. If they aren't used to making some accommodation in their lives for you, don't expect your presence to change that. Live where you will be happy and healthy, since that is an issue. If you wouldn't be happy in a child's location without their presence, you probably won't enjoy living there, anyway.If you have been living in the warmers areas of our country, heating costs in Chicago can be a bit of a shock. I know they were for me! Gasoline prices are quite high here, too.

Kestrel

11-14-12, 1:50pm

When DH and I retired seven years ago we moved to Boise ID area to be near our two sons and their families. #1 son (he's divorced) and his son live about two miles from us and we see them often. We go to the same church and we're all very active, so see each other a lot, there and by choice. Also, he seems to "need" us more than #2 son does. #2 lives about ten miles away. His wife is a born-and-bred local, and is very close to her family and friends so they spend more time with them. That's OK with us, because we seem them fairly often anyway. For Thanksgiving this year, #1 son and grandson will be with some friends; #2 son and family will be with DIL's family, and we will be with our church community friends. We will, however, have "our" family get-together probably Friday evening next week, tho not a traditional Thanksgiving celebration. It works out great for all of us. Not sure yet what will happen for Christmas ...

We try not to intrude on their lives, and they definitely don't intrude on ours. DH and our sons and grandsons go geocaching together a lot when the weather's nice, and I don't go because I want it to be their "guy" time together. And we go camping together sometimes, which includes some geocaching :).

Not sure yet what will happen when we grow much older and need care (we're 68 and 69 -- young and healthy and active!) because we haven't really talked about it with them. DH and I do know that we don't want to live with either son, and we know they wouldn't want that either. So time will tell ...

No advice here -- your situation is different from ours. Just sharing what we've done ...

Spartana

11-14-12, 2:11pm

"All these years later, I am their only offspring with a job, and I am still a screwup in their eyes.) "

I don't think I'd be breaking a leg to move there and assume a care-taking role. If your siblings are the favorites, step back and let them do the heavy lifting. Your therapist is likely giving good advice.

Do your research and move somewhere that calls to you. Make your own best life. From what you have written, there's no reason for you to do otherwise.

I agree jane and will take back my suggestion to Rodeo Sweetheart to move there. Unless she really DID mess up the Reign of Mary Queen of Scots :-)!!

After reading more of the posts I probably would recommend that she wait a bit until she is surer that she wants to move, or if she is brave and OK with the potential problems that may arise and can deal with them, then make the leap and move near the son that thinks she should be closer. Sounds like he/they are all for it and would probably make the transition that much easier to make.

JaneV2.0

11-14-12, 3:12pm

Re Mary, Queen of Scots--never a good idea to mess with the Stewarts/Stuarts. Iris Lily and I have long memories.

rodeosweetheart

11-14-12, 4:26pm

Re Mary, Queen of Scots--never a good idea to mess with the Stewarts/Stuarts. Iris Lily and I have long memories.

I don';t think I did. I have been working on Ancestry.com for the last couple of weeks and found that everyone on my paternal side goes back hail from either Yorkshire, Wales, or Ireland, so I think I am innocent. Maybe in another life, though?

Thank you SO MUCH for these wonderful thoughtful replies. Believe me, I am reading them all and gauging my thoughts--just writing the initial post and then feeling what your posts have evoked in me have helped my thinking immensely. Everybody has such sound reasons for what they are saying. And it has really made me realize that I need to thoroughly understand what I want, what I value, what I need, before I make the decision. I know that seems ob vious, but it wasn't feeling obvious to me.

I see the wisdom of the warning about being in the kids' way or a burden. I would not move close to West Coast kid because I do think it would hamper his style--that is his place, and it's hard to leave home if home keeps following! The other two in the Midwest are close to where they grew up in the Midwest, and where I lived in Chicago for 30 years. So I know the climate and the area very well, just haven't lived there in 8 years, and have gotten spoiled with 4 years down here in the South. But the turf out there is shared turf, if that makes sense, and I am not planning to move closer than 4-5 hours drive to anybody, so I don't think we will be in their way.

Wildflower, thank for the vision of a really happy adult married empty nest.

The other really funny thing I discovered on Ancestry is that like Jane's family, we were real nomads, and the generations tended to move together, or the old people would follow much later. I learned that my 84year old grreat-grandmother moved to Billings, Montana and died there. I like to think of her riding a horse and becoming a cowgirl. More likely, she moved closer to a married daughter. But it is funny to see these patterns occuring over 10 generations.

rodeosweetheart

11-14-12, 5:06pm

domestic and kestral, thank you for a very encouraging picture that this can be successfully done, as it sounds like you are very sensitive to the dynamics and obviously have your own lives, too. Nice to know it can work . . .

iris lily

11-14-12, 5:13pm

I don';t think I did. I have been working on Ancestry.com for the last couple of weeks and found that everyone on my paternal side goes back hail from either Yorkshire, Wales, or Ireland, so I think I am innocent. Maybe in another life, though?

Oh does this mean I need to call off these blokes? We were ready to come and tear off the head of rodeosweetheart

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4907/kingdoms201103191027111.png

Zoebird

11-15-12, 5:42am

I haven't read the many pages of replies -- which I am sure are amazing -- but here are my concerns based on my life experience and self reflection.

First, I would ask myself how mobile my children are.

For example, my sister is well entrenched in her home. Her husband is there, and that's where most of his career is built. my sister can work from anywhere. They have a strong community network. They own their own home. They have talked about moving, btu to a town that is 20 minutes from where they currently live.

Because of my business, I'm also rather entrenched, but once my business grows to the size that I'm looking to develop it to. . . I can move anywhere and take it anywhere. Thus, I'm not as entrenched as I perceive my sister to me.

My parents moved around a lot when I was a kid -- every 3-5 years. And they continue this pattern. They just live close to work. That's their only criteria really. But when they retire, they are talking about moving "close to their kids."

I recommended to them that they move closer to my sister. The reason? She's less likely to move far away. They are currently about a 5-6 hr drive from each other, and my parents are actually looking to move into that small town where my sister is thinking of going after they finish renovating their house and decide whether or nto they want to mvoe there.

It does not make sense for them to move here. First, immigration would be a PITA. Second, i don't know if I"m staying here or not, or for how long, or what have you. So, moving to be near me just doesn't make sense.

Secondarily, I think you do need to consider your health. You need to move where you can be healthiest, and perhaps you can talk to your children about potentially moving to jobs/etc closer to you (it's a possibility at least). Because you have a special health need, I think that this is really important to consider.

-- Aside -- A friend of mine's mother just moved into her daughter's home town. Her daughter moved around a lot and most recently settled in Co. They've been there for 4-5 years now, actually. This is her only daughter, btw. Her husband passed away 3 years ago, and most of her community has moved to retirement villages or to be closer to their children. So, her community had dissipated.

She sold everything and moved to Co to be nearer her daughter. The plan is to rent, and then to move when they move (if they move). I think they plan on staying "permanently/indefinitely."

my friend loves having her mother there for a lot of reasons. It's great for everyone really. But only because it works for her -- and it's what she needs, and she can do it (health wise, etc). And, while her life currently revolves around her daughter/granddaughter, she is making connections in the local community, and forging new alliances. So, she also has her own life.

Finally, with the whole DIL thing -- you know I have troubles with my ILs. it's no secret. I'm sure in their world they have also done nothing offensive and I'm not unlike Tradd's friend's son's ex-wife. Still, even if everything was peachy peachy keen -- I think I would still get the same sort of "blame" from them that you seem to communicate in your post.

It's not to say that you are wrong. I can't say anything about your relationship with your DILs. But, I can tell you about my experience with my husband.

In terms of engaging his parents, my husband is passive. He just is. And from what I can tell from my friend's husbands, they are too.

And, if there's an event that I don't want to go to, DH is free to go. More often than not, DH would choose to spend the time with me over going to the event with his parents, and tell his parents something like "zoebird doesn't want to attend" rather than "we are busy" or "I would rather spend this weekend alone with my wife" or some other explanation that was focused on *his* decision making process as opposed to mine.

Likewise, I would visit my family (on my own) a lot more than DH would on his own. And, once I had DS, that just continued on.

All of this caused a lot of negativity between my ILs and myself. But it wasn't personal. I have my own life -- my husband and child, my family, my friends, my work. My ILs are part of extended family -- most of whom I have very limited contact with (one aunt, btw, is the extent of my contact with extended family). I feel that they are DH's responsibility to field and manage and determine how we spend time together and all that jazz. It's not my job or responsibility to manage his relationship with them: it's his.

And I would say that this would be true even if I loved my ILs and had fun with them and enjoyed their company. Even friends of mine who adore their ILs notice that they end up fielding a lot of this stuff because their husbands do not take the time to make arrangements with them. . . it's often made with the DIL.

I think it's just how it is. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well. And I don't think you're being hard on them. But just don't assume that she's somehow dictating to your son such that he can't come and do house-hunting with you or whatever.

I don't know him, either, so I can't assume he's passive, but I have noticed that many men are passive in these things, and usually it's wives who end up either A. doing all of the planning with the ILs on behalf of the nuclear family, or B. not doing so, and getting blamed for the husband's/son's passivity in the matter.

Just to give another POV. I get a lot of flak from ILs for skyping with my parents mid-week with DS when I want to have a chat with them. It's the same when I would just go to their place for dinner or for an afternoon. I just wanted to see my family.

And I asked my MIL once: did you take DH and his sister over to your IL's house without your DH present? She never did. They lived *across the street* from her mother. She would visit her aunt with the kids every 3rd day or so, her mother with the kids 2-3 times a week. Her ILs really only saw them about once a month, if that.

Were her ILs bad people? My MIL had a difficult relationship with her ILs (probably as difficult as mine), but like my ILs, they were not terrible people with whom you couldn't have a meal. But, they were also terrible enough to make her feel unwelcome (just as my ILs are to me), that she wouldn't just want to stop by and have a chat and a cuppa and let them see/play with the kids.

Perhaps our situation is just very different.

I believe you when you say you didn't do anything to offend. I assume that this is the case. I just think that sometimes people don't realize just how busy we are (ie, currently working 60 hr work weeks!), and that all the extra socializing is exhausting.

Tradd

11-15-12, 8:20am

I know an elderly couple who is considering moving to be near their only child. However, from outside looking in, it just doesn't seem to be a good idea. You might take some things away from this situation.

1. The husband of this couple is pretty ill. The place where they would be moving is rural and doesn't have the best medical care.

2. The child doesn't seem to want to have much to do with the parents.

3. The mother seems to want to focus a lot on the child/grandkids.

4. Both halves of this couple will be leaving the friends they've known for 20+ years, community/church support, etc. The child lives in an area not far from where this couple used to live decades ago, but they readily admit they know no one there aside from the daughter and her kids - who do not seem to want much to do with the parents, from what I hear of few phone calls, etc.

RS, you need to really consider if the child (and his family) you will be moving near REALLY want you there. If you move there to help out, not really knowing anyone else, what will you do if the kids turn out to really not want you there? What will you do if the kid turns out to take advantage of any help you may offer (babysitting the grandkids, etc.), but otherwise doesn't want much to do with you? Is it wise to move somewhere just for one kid, concentrating everything on him?

Just some thoughts that came up from my friend's situation.

rodeosweetheart

11-15-12, 10:03am

Thanks, Zoebird and Tradd. You make some very compelling points about family dynamics. Thanks for your thoughtful reflection on the initial post!

I hear you, Zoe, about being busy, because my husband and I also work 60 hour weeks, and it is hard to add any travel to that:)
Now that I have written that, I realize that has been a huge stressor for us and part of the reason we want to move--we work every day of the year, and it has been so tough and stressful to travel to see extended family when we are doing so--drive 10 hours and then work 4 hours at night on computer, praying to get reliable internet access, then get up and do it again for 3 days straight. Plus, at some points the workload absolutely prohibits going anywhere, and so that makes planning a trip extremely complicated. If we did not have the jobs we have, I think traveling to see them more would be an excellent idea. IT's just that we are as busy as they are, and all of us are grateful for the work, believe me!

I think a large part of this is exhaustion, on everyone's parts.

Iris, I don't recognize those blokes, so I guess I am safe!

rodeosweetheart

11-15-12, 10:23am

Tradd, I probably did not communicate very well that we are really not moving close to any of the kids, just closer, LOL, to try to be within a 1 day drive, or ideally, a train ride away. You are so right that being on top of any of the kids is not fair to anyone, and I sure don't want to add any stress to anyone's relationship, including my own with husband and his family! It gets complicated because he has a huge, close family, and that's another story. But he is pretty adamant about leaving the South. I;m the only Southerner in the family and they don't seem to get the attraction. One son and DIL cannot stand the heat--they chose between places to live by which had less heat and sunshine, and have like no melanin at all between them--they both get bright red in the sun and overheated and so wisely seek out cool climates and urban areas. I, on the other hand, being born on the ATlantic, adore sunshine and beaches.

So if we go back the Midwest, we are going home--I lived there 30 years, husband born and riased there. And I do love the Midwest and the people--it's an awesome place, just give me a little water (Lake Michigan nearby would be great.)

I am thinking with grandchildren things like once a month, maybe, take a train into city and have lunch at Marshall Fields. Which with our family would end up being 4 times a year, because we are all so busy. But it would be nice to have the opportunity, we have all agreed about that. The only reason any one has said, "don';t move, Mom" is because they think I might get sicker back up north.

But we both have pretty active lives and old friends in the area, plus we make friends easily and have done really well here setting down roots. So that's another plus/minus about leaving here!

IT's this 3 day drive thing that is killing us.

Zoebird

11-16-12, 1:03am

I think that is a big deal. If you are working every day, travel is stressful and THEN to be disappointed about not getting to see the person whom you travelled to see is truly annoying.

I completely agree with that! That's partly why I got so sick that first christmas here. We were travelling with my Aunt, and my parnts and ILs made a massive stink about us not skyping *on christmas* (which was boxing day here anyway) with them. We knew we would be out in a rural area at that time, and that internet in NZ isn't all that reliable in the city centers, let alone in rural areas.

They made SUCH a massive stink, that DH and I called ahead to where we were staying to ask about internet. They said that it was unreliable and slow, but that their neighbors would let us (kindly!) use theirs. How nice is that?! Due to the metered downloading here, we only had 30 minutes with each family, and due to our own travel plans and arrangements, we only had a specific window in which to skype (between 6 and 7 am). This also meant that we had to get up around 4:30 am to get everyone showered, packed, fed, and ready to go because we had to leave at 7:15 am to make it to the boat that we were going to catch that day (for a tour of the fjords) which we'd planned months before (thus got a good price).

We confirmed with both sets of parents that we would be skyping at which time, and confirmed the local time in the US.

Then, we got up, did everything (in a rush that morning), and got skype set up and sat there, waiting. 6 transitions to 7 am, and then we pack up and go. I was beside myself livid (not to mention exhausted), and we jumped in the car and drove over to the boat for the tour.

No email. No FB message, nothing. When we got back (about 10 days later), we had our normal skypes and there wasn't even an apology or anything. "Oh, we decided to go to Millie's for lunch," my ILS informed us. But they didn't bother to tell us before, so that we could have slept in or not been as rushed. And my parents? "Oh, yeah, your sister was having another drama (they didn't put it exactly this way, but that's how I heard it), so we had to rush over and see her (5 hr drive), and just forgot to tell you." Yeah, thanks. You know, you could have just sent an email on your Iphone, or used your laptop to send an email when you arrived -- which was before the time you were supposed to skype. Or have had my sister (who was on FB at the time and knew nothing about why my parents weren't on for Skype) tell us that you were driving to her place!?

It's two years ago, and I'm still mad. LOL

I really do know what it feels like to go through a lot of effort for others only to have them blow you off, and not really give you a satisfying reason why.

rodeosweetheart

11-16-12, 8:07am

I really do know what it feels like to go through a lot of effort for others only to have them blow you off, and not really give you a satisfying reason why.

You know, I think that's it--I think that is what I have been feeling. Hmm. I gotta think about how much that has been affecting my relationships with everybody involved. Your Christmas story is awful,and I can think of at least four similar ones from our family.

I think each generation goes through these dynamics. My mom expected us to drive all the children each Thanksgiving and Christmas 12 hours away to their house, only to be in a completely un-kid friendly environment and sit and listen to them complain about my parenting (not enough stucture, too many cheerios, dumb stuff for most part) or avoid us entirely--on one trip, my dad went to his room for 4 days before interacting with kids at all. I swore I would never ever do that, that I would respect my kids' needs to do their own thing on holidays. Once I stopped taking the kids out there, my parents, when young enough to still travel, only came out twice to see us, and they were uninterested in doing things like going to the kids' ballgames, etc. There was a whole lot of resentment that 2 out of 3 of our kids were adopted, and they were uninterested in the non genetically related children--always at arm's distance, and some very very hurtful things said. So I guess I kind of decided enough's enough, I can't expose everyone to this too much at all, and then lots of distance, never again a shared holiday.

When I got divorced, they were very angry, even though husband was abusive to me and kids. I still get the feeling, 15 years later, that they expected me to "tough it out" although they've come a long way with that, as current husband is so much more of a person, is truly kind to them, and now, of course, they defer to him--the males have all the power in their world, the women are sort of servants.

Ugh. I think my protectiveness of my children kind of morphed into doing whatever they needed, whenever, perhaps more than was healthy? I just want the same respect from them that I show them, an acknowledgement that we really have traveled 3 days and it would be awesome to not hear, "we're tired from going to this trip last week and we just want to chill today", or to arrive to see them, pay for dinner to be brought in, and then not be invited to spend the night when it means going out from their apt to a really scary neighborhood and driving 2 hours to be able to find an affordable motel. That happened and caused a big rift--my husband so hurt and upset that he now refuses to stay with them when invited, which causes son pain. And I'm hurt that he is holding grudge about it.

On other hand, they had gone through a move a couple of months earlier, work was absolutely kicking her butt, she was extremely stressed, with unmanaged anxiety and depression, he was depressed, they were going through a bad patch in relationship, and I imagine the arrival of the IL's was probably a surreal icing on the cake to a bad situation. They are both wonderful people, my DIL and son, and I strive to love her like my own daughter, and I hate to see us adding to her stress-- but I know what it's like to be that age and be overwhelmed by sh%$t like a difficult job and a new marriage. The stress is absolutely inevitable; she is not going to see our arrival as "oh good, here comes the Calvalry, portable home" the way we see the arrival of our own mom or dad when the relationship is good.

One of reasons son said, and I agreed, that it would be good if we could move closer is that we could see each other a bit more and everything would not have to be such a big deal, with such big expectations. Instead of having to do "the perfect Christmas" we could meet every other month in the middle somewhere and we could buy them dinner. Until one day, we are so old and they are so successful, they buy us dinner. Or they could come up in summer and spend weekend at the farm with the grandchildren, just chilling. That;s our dream, anyway.

Thanks, Zoe, I think you really put into words what I have been feeling, and it really helps me get clearer on the whole situation.