View Full Version : Goodby, Texas
The Storyteller
11-14-12, 2:08pm
"On the White House's "We the People" website, a petition asking the administration to "Peacefully grant the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government" so far has more than 95,000 signatures (not all of them from Texans). The White House says it will respond to all petitions that within 30 days receive more than 25,000 signatures."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57549607/secessionist-leader-texas-should-separate-from-marxist-states/
Don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out. And y'all don't be trying to cross the Red River, either. We'll build a wall.
Better idea... maybe all these unpatriotic individuals who signed these petitions should just self-deport.
Good bye Texas. That sounds very good.
I heard that 94,000 of the signatures were from Colorado residents.
Tussiemussies
11-14-12, 2:25pm
I heard that they are not the only state doing this, there seemed like a handful more...
I've heard there's a group doing this in Indiana too.
I heard that they are not the only state doing this, there seemed like a handful more...
They showed a map on some program today and all of the red states want to succeed. Poor losers I guess. They don't believe in democracy, I guess. As divided as the nation is I could see a real try at succession. Most of the southern states need fed money so let them go.
I heard that 94,000 of the signatures were from Colorado residents.
And there's a reason for that :laff:
The South wanting to secede because they didn't get their way? Well, hey, it worked out so well for them last time...
The Storyteller
11-14-12, 2:52pm
Here's another petition from the White House website...
"Peacefully grant the city of Austin Texas to withdraw from the state of Texas & remain part of the United States."
I'm guessing our old friend Beststash had a hand in that one.
If one must be stuck in Texas as I am, then Austin is the only place I would live. It is an island in the middle of the desert. Rick Perry, our lovely governor, has been threatening to secede for at least a decade.
I have to say I sympathize. I don't particularly enjoy being associated with a lot of the states hankering for secession anyway.
But beyond that, I daydream about realizing the mythical land of Cascadia--composed of the Pacific Northwest, northern California, and perhaps part of British Columbia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_%28independence_movement%29
I heard that 94,000 of the signatures were from Colorado residents.
:laff::laff::laff:
The Storyteller
11-14-12, 3:21pm
In all seriousness, though, I have no problem with Texas. It is a (mostly) friendly rivalry between our two states (google Red River Shootout, for example). The fact that it is red has little to do with it. Heck, Oklahoma makes it look downright deep dark blue, politically. Some of the nicest people I know are conservative to the core.
Besides, I graduated from high school in Texas, and my daughter lives there. I'd need a visa to visit my grandkids.
But I am serious about the unpatriotic thing, though. The people who are driving this are likely the type who would ironically consider a lefty like me unamerican. I don't see how I could top someone who wants to secede from the USA, regardless who is in office.
I wonder if the US will go through it's own balkanization some day?
Surprised me though, Texas would want to secede from the US - I would have guessed they would rather kick the other 49 out :-)
I heard that 94,000 of the signatures were from Colorado residents.
Now that is funny! Snort!
I was thinking about this the other day, before I even heard about it. Some people (especially on the extreme right), would probably love to have everyone believe exactly as they believe, and that would require having their own state. I guess I can't blame them. I'd like to have everyone in my state in sync with my beliefs too. Seems sort of possible that if you had enough people in a state who were really angry with the government, that they would want to secede. Maybe it would be nice to get them all out of everywhere else and put them in their own state. :~)
I heard that 94,000 of the signatures were from Colorado residents.
:-)
A few of them do get a little pesky during hunting and tourist seasons. Not that I would know, but that's what some of the scribblings in the public outhouses indicate.
San Onofre Guy
11-14-12, 8:01pm
I've always thought, Why don't we give Texas to Mexico and call it even!
I've always thought, Why don't we give Texas to Mexico and call it even!
Or better yet, California.
Or better yet, California. Hey now! What would you do without all our bad sitcom TV and even worse fashion and fads? You'd all be lost without us!
Or better yet, California.
Californians are moving to Texas in droves so perhaps the politics will change over time.
I've always thought, Why don't we give Texas to Mexico and call it even!
So you'd torture the poor Mexican people with Texas? A fate worse then death ;-)! Actually I like Texas...to visit.
I am a Texan. Would that make me a foreigner? Would I be offered dual citizenship?
Know what I say?
Buh Bye..
iris lily
11-14-12, 9:26pm
...
But I am serious about the unpatriotic thing, though. The people who are driving this are likely the type who would ironically consider a lefty like me unamerican. I don't see how I could top someone who wants to secede from the USA, regardless who is in office.
I agree. I hate this movement and I think it is stupid. It is unpatriotic and I don't like it and I want them to cut it out. Just stop it.
Now, if only the federal government would back the F*** off and allow states to do more of their own thing as our founding father intended, that would solve many of the concerns of those on the fringe who wish to remove themselves from these united state of the Americas.
ApatheticNoMore
11-14-12, 9:27pm
I don't have a philosophical problem with succession (this is quite apart from whether I think global cooperation is needed on global problems - because I most certainly do), and frankly I'd be happy not to be a citizen of this country anymore. But I do know it's not exactly that simple at this late date.
I don’t need your war machines
I've always thought, Why don't we give Texas to Mexico and call it even!
Some of my hispanic friends say that they are taking California back, "One Mexican at a time!"
Californians are moving to Texas in droves so perhaps the politics will change over time.
Are you sure they're not just escaping?
The Storyteller
11-14-12, 10:19pm
Californians are moving to Texas in droves so perhaps the politics will change over time.
Texas is expected to be a swing state within the next few elections, then reliably blue not much later on.
I guess it's gone viral - all 50 states have petitions in to secede.
AmeliaJane
11-15-12, 1:09am
According to the AP, the only states where Obama got more votes than in Texas were Florida, California, and New York. He got more votes in Texas than in his home state of Illinois. It's just that there were even more Republicans here.
Texas is big. We have a lot of everything, including Democrats and weirdos with more time on their hands than sense. Plus, we are getting ready to flip blue, hard. Maybe not in four years, but possibly in eight.
We also have a long history of entertaining politics. Really, we're not having fun down here if someone's not engaging in ridiculous hyperbole. Last year, the legislature was threatening to bar the TSA from doing full-body scans at Texas airports, this year we're petitioning to secede. Too bad we no longer have Molly Ivins with us to call the game...
Square Peg
11-15-12, 1:51am
Oops
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/states-with-most-signatures-to-secede-took-millions-in-federal-money/
But seriously, if I was a happy American (as I am) and some yahoos got pissed off and decided to secede and my state went floating off, I would be really really mad. And many of these signers (I am guessing) are the same ones who freak out and start rumors that public schools no longer say the Pledge. You know, the one pledging allegiance to this country: one nation indivisible and all that jazz?
Square Peg
11-15-12, 3:35am
I just perused the website. 2 things stood out: Many of the signatures are NOT from state residents and many of the signatures are the same across states. People from Indiana and Texas and Arizona don't get to decide if Washington state secedes. The wording is cut and pasted, and very few actually state reasons.
They're just pouting because they lost. People pout. They'll get over it.
We also have a long history of entertaining politics. Really, we're not having fun down here if someone's not engaging in ridiculous hyperbole. Last year, the legislature was threatening to bar the TSA from doing full-body scans at Texas airports, this year we're petitioning to secede. Too bad we no longer have Molly Ivins with us to call the game...
At least you still have Kinky Friedman.
ApatheticNoMore
11-15-12, 2:32pm
We also have a long history of entertaining politics. Really, we're not having fun down here if someone's not engaging in ridiculous hyperbole. Last year, the legislature was threatening to bar the TSA from doing full-body scans at Texas airports
I don't get it, why is that ridiculous? Remember back in the day when liberals believed in civil liberties?
The Storyteller
11-15-12, 2:41pm
People from Indiana and Texas and Arizona don't get to decide if Washington state secedes.
I'm pretty sure the people of Washington state don't, either.
Seems to me we fought a war over that..
I'm pretty sure the people of Washington state don't, either.
Seems to me we fought a war over that..
Interesting observation. After the civil war, President Grant signed the Reconstruction Act which allowed Texas to re-join the union, a full 5 years after the end of hostilities. If a state, once admitted to the union, cannot secede, why would it need Federal approval to be recognized as a state after doing so?
They're just pouting because they lost. People pout. They'll get over it.
Let them pout in a way that doesn't cost taxpayer money, then. Or did they already forget about their rabid crusade to cut "wasteful government spending"?
ApatheticNoMore
11-15-12, 3:30pm
Everything costs taxpayer money. To put an iniative on the ballot costs taxpayer money. All those state iniatives to legalize Mary Jane, you think they didn't cost money to get on the ballot? But it's still the law of the land that Federal law controls drug policy (sorry, and I do support legalization). So were those iniatives a waste of money, or is the point to shift policy over time? Now petitions to suceed unless there is a true and strong majority desire in that state to suceed ARE silly, a minority in the state determining the state should suceed is just silly. If you have enough sign off's on a petition but not any real majority consensus (and consensus should be built on deep understanding of the implications not just knee jerking) in the state, what's the point?
But as symbolism it's not too bad. I think Washington is corrupt and viscious. I think this because they engage in global war, in drone kililing, in a murder program, in violations of basic human rights (NDAA) etc. They aren't good actors in the world on other matters either (the U.S. sets a horrible example for the world). So as symbolism it's not bad, but it really is ridiculous as policy unless there's deep conviction and understand of what sucession means and it's a consensus, most people in the state agree it is desirable.
I'm pretty sure the people of Washington state don't, either.
Seems to me we fought a war over that..
Seems to me that people have a moral right to political self-determination. The UN Charter even mentions something about this. Simply because force was used in the past to quash peoples doesn't make the situation correct.
Realistically, I doubt that anything will ever become of this and it's all about making some sort of statement.
Theoretically, I think the Texans could come out ahead of things by not paying Federal income taxes, Medicare and Social security. I would guess they could cover the federal benefits they might loose with what ever system they come up with and have money left over. Just getting out of their obligations to chip in support of the mega military industrial complex would be a big one. Maybe G.W. could get another run out of it.
I don't know if this is protest against Obama, or just a protest. It seems like the political system is not listening to what the people want, be it the 99% or the 47%. And they are unable to fix our problems due to self interests. Maybe we need more of this sort of thing.
The Storyteller
11-15-12, 5:28pm
Seems to me that people have a moral right to political self-determination. The UN Charter even mentions something about this. Simply because force was used in the past to quash peoples doesn't make the situation correct.
Maybe, but might makes right in this case. And there isn't a state or collection states that could stand up to might of the United States military. That is just the reality.
It is what it is.
Maybe, but might makes right in this case. And there isn't a state or collection states that could stand up to might of the United States military. That is just the reality.
It is what it is.
Interesting ethics.
Given that Montana and North Dakota have a huge portion of our nuclear arsenal sitting ready in launch tubes, you might want to reconsider that...
Frankly, to me, one of the great advantages of balkanization would be the inability of the USA to continue to field a military force that outweighs the entire rest of the planet.
Really though, if the people of Washington State voted to secede from the Union, do you think the rest of the USA would use military force to keep them in? Do you think it would be moral of the USA to do so?
Do you think it would be moral of the US to ignore the country of Washington when they start begging for, oh , just about everything, that they can't provide on their own? Do you think it would be moral of the US to turn down the citizens of the country of Washington when they apply for citizenship?
Of course, without the protections of the US, it's laws and regulations on air, water, food, labor, land use, etc...you would be free to rule your little kingdom as you see fit.
Every man for himself, screw the poor, you're on your own!
Do you think it would be moral of the US to ignore the country of Washington when they start begging for, oh , just about everything, that they can't provide on their own? Do you think it would be moral of the US to turn down the citizens of the country of Washington when they apply for citizenship?
Of course, without the protections of the US, it's laws and regulations on air, water, food, labor, land use, etc...you would be free to rule your little kingdom as you see fit.
Every man for himself, screw the poor, you're on your own!Why do you say that? Ireland seems to do just fine with about the same population of Washington State and I believe Austria's population is about one third that of Texas. If European countries can manage their own affairs, including everything you mentioned, don't you think Washington or Texas could as well?
Every man for himself, screw the poor, you're on your own!
So, you can't answer my simple questions, instead preferring to go into spittle-flinging attack mode. Got it.
For those of you interested in actual data, keep in mind the whole red state/blue state is a concoction of people who want to sell you a bill of goods, or simply don't understand effective visual display of quantitative information.
2012 per-county Presidential results, with shading to indicate red/blue balance:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/countymappurple512.png
It's even more strikingly-even per-precinct, from my recollection of early years' results. And if you adjust the results not by land area, but by population.
Good article on the topic: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/
JaneV2.0
11-15-12, 11:12pm
We have a lot of smart people here--I think we'd do fine--but I'm still holding out for Cascadia...
We have a lot of smart people here--I think we'd do fine--but I'm still holding out for Cascadia...
It sounds like such a lovely place, I quite agree!
People in my county now-and-then mull over the idea of seceding to BC from Washington, the folks on Vancouver Island and the Gulf Islands have much more in common with us than the folks in Olympia/Seattle do. Plus then the ferries would work.
ApatheticNoMore
11-15-12, 11:45pm
Do you think it would be moral of the US to ignore the country of Washington when they start begging for, oh , just about everything, that they can't provide on their own?
Yes, the U.S. doesn't give Mexico everything just because they beg for it do we? If you want to get into how the U.S. and the first world in general treats the rest of the world, you won't find very much moral there at all, I suspect.
Do you think it would be moral of the US to turn down the citizens of the country of Washington when they apply for citizenship?
it could be worked out
Of course, without the protections of the US, it's laws and regulations on air, water, food, labor, land use, etc...you would be free to rule your little kingdom as you see fit.
that's probably how the U.S. looks in the rest of the world's eyes. Ok they don't necessarily care about our labor laws unless they spill over to the rest of the world, but they do see a big rich (and bullying) country, a country rich and powerful enough (China and all the other growing powers notwithstanding), that it could set an example for the world in conservation and alternative energy development etc. etc., and see that this country won't even take carbon reduction seriously. Oh yes, we look lovely to the rest of the globe, I'm sure. A kingdom run as we see fit, only alas it's not a little kingdom but massive.
Every man for himself, screw the poor, you're on your own!
I really don't see every state for itself as every man for themselves, but yes if that's how they wanted to run their state become a new country (I'm betting many people would move out :)).
gimmethesimplelife
11-16-12, 12:58am
Here's another petition from the White House website...
"Peacefully grant the city of Austin Texas to withdraw from the state of Texas & remain part of the United States."
I'm guessing our old friend Beststash had a hand in that one.I've only been to Austin once and I was floored by how cool it was.....Truly it does not fit into Texas, it's like its own little country, and once you get beyond the suburbs, yep, there you are in that place known as Texas once more.....Rob
gimmethesimplelife
11-16-12, 1:02am
I don't have a philosophical problem with succession (this is quite apart from whether I think global cooperation is needed on global problems - because I most certainly do), and frankly I'd be happy not to be a citizen of this country anymore. But I do know it's not exactly that simple at this late date.
I don’t need your war machines+1
gimmethesimplelife
11-16-12, 1:08am
I agree. I hate this movement and I think it is stupid. It is unpatriotic and I don't like it and I want them to cut it out. Just stop it.
Now, if only the federal government would back the F*** off and allow states to do more of their own thing as our founding father intended, that would solve many of the concerns of those on the fringe who wish to remove themselves from these united state of the Americas.As someone who tends to be quite liberal and has seriously questioned the long term viability of US citizenship for some time, I find it absolutely amazing that there are CONSERVATIVES who want to remove themselves from the US, too. Just absolutely amazing. Of course, for different reasons, but still amazing. I am watching these developments - which I am thinking will blow over quite soon - with amusement and interest. Amazing to me that there are folks on the other side of the political divide that are questioning for themselves the same thing I have been, for different reasons as I have said, but the same basic question. In a strange way this gives me hope for the future, though I don't believe any states are seceeding any time soon. And the last time that happened - Gone With the Wind was a great book and a true marvel of Hollywood at that time, but the reality of the Civil War.....not so great and not such a marvel. Rob
The way i see it is, if you don't like the US, well, then go. Move. Look around the world and find a country you do like and move there. But don't try to chop up MY country into a million little pieces, cause I do know how it works. I do know why we are a Union, and the power of the collective of states.
I find it exceedingly ironic that those who jumped up and slammed their hands over their hearts and screamed the pledge of allegiance, as if THAT made them more patriotic, are the ones who now want to abandon it because the fair election, as laid out in the constitution (that paper they keep screeching about) didn't go their way. The democratically elected President wasn't THEIR guy so they want to leave America, but take it with them, so to speak. Well, buh bye. Ever one of those people have the ability to move.
So, what happens when their state/country doesn't go exactly the way THEY personally want it to? Maybe their county can secede from their state/country. And when the folks there out vote them? Well, I suppose their town could separate, then their block, then maybe just their house. A kingdom of one, cause whenever you live with two or more people, you have to compromise and find a way to settle things. A flip of a coin? Draw straws? Or maybe, I don't know, how about a vote, where the most votes gets it.
Sheesh! What a bunch of sore losers!
I find it exceedingly ironic that those who jumped up and slammed their hands over their hearts and screamed the pledge of allegiance, as if THAT made them more patriotic, are the ones who now want to abandon it because the fair election, as laid out in the constitution (that paper they keep screeching about) didn't go their way. The democratically elected President wasn't THEIR guy so they want to leave America, but take it with them, so to speak. Well, buh bye. Ever one of those people have the ability to move.
I don't think it's about that at all. It seems to me that the secession movement is making the very same point that the tea party movement made several years ago, that our federal government is becoming too intrusive, too costly and ineffecient with no end in sight. That our country is on a fast track to insolvency and chaos in it's attempts to be all things to all people.
The tea party hoped to change it's path from within and now it has become apparent that the majority of Americans resist the changes necessary, leaving no alternatives for many other than backing out and starting over.
pinkytoe
11-16-12, 10:18am
I'm still holding out for Cascadia...
I imagine Native Americans would just like it back.
pinkytoe
11-16-12, 10:22am
I've only been to Austin once and I was floored by how cool it was
The reason Austin is cool is because we are tolerant here...except for a few loud malcontents.
The Storyteller
11-16-12, 11:04am
I'm getting kinda sorry I started this thread. It was begun as a joke, and many things I said in it were meant as a joke.
Because, seriously. This just ain't gonna happen. I don't care if a 2/3 majority of Texans want it to be so (which isn't likely, since 100% of the Texans I have ever met have been proud to be United States citizens), it will never happen. Not in my lifetime, not in my grand children's lifetimes. Because the United States, despite its name and origin, is one country. Not a loosely (or even tightly) bound confederation of countries. That really was decided in the Civil War, which, contrary to popular belief, was fought precisely and wholly to preserve the union.
This is a mere protest movement. Nothing more, nothing less. Most of the people who signed these petitions are more than likely actually patriotic Americans, who just happen to be making a very unpatriotic statement. And while bae's Colorado comment was a joke, there is probably some truth to it. Heck, I was tempted to sign the Texas petition in jest, myself. But I actually believe any state seceding from this country to which it belongs would be a terrible thing, to both that state and the United States as a whole.
And even if these states WANTED to secede (which they don't), it wouldn't happen. Not now, not ever. The United States government would not allow it to happen, fantasies of a bunch North Dakota farmers taking over the nuclear arsenal of the world's only superpower aside.
So, this thread has turned into one big, impossibly hypothetical, philosophical discussion.
And I'm not much of a philosopher. So...
Peace, y'all.
And even if these states WANTED to secede (which they don't), it wouldn't happen. Not now, not ever. The United States government would not allow it to happen...
I think you're probably right. That the federal government would immediately move to squash that kind of rebellion lets a little light shine through the cracks, huh?
Do you think it would be moral of the US to ignore the country of Washington when they start begging for, oh , just about everything, that they can't provide on their own? Do you think it would be moral of the US to turn down the citizens of the country of Washington when they apply for citizenship?
Of course, without the protections of the US, it's laws and regulations on air, water, food, labor, land use, etc...you would be free to rule your little kingdom as you see fit.
Every man for himself, screw the poor, you're on your own!
Well there will be trade between the various country-states. The Nation of Washington will trade it's vast resources of water (most of it probably falling from the sky non-stop for the next 8 months) to the drought-ridden Nation of Southern Calif (which will secede from NorCal of course - damn hippies the whole lot :-)) and we will trade our cheap and exploitable immigrant labor to pick Washington apples along with our cosmetic surgeons to give those Washingtonians a fab make over, breast implants, a spray tan, and shiney blonde hair :-). Start drafting your NAFTA papers folks!
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