equal pay for equal work?

[peggy]

Even monkeys know that everyone should get equal pay for equal work.>8)
http://www.upworthy.com/2-monkeys-were-paid-unequally-see-what-happens-next

[ToomuchStuff]

Equal work is the key. I have NO problem with that. But I am sure you will agree with me, that not all women will put forth the effort (seen a woman say she can't lift that, when the job requirements said must be able to lift 75lbs).
I also believe it should equate to those that take smoke breaks, verses those of us who don't smoke (why shouldn't I get an equal break), etc.

[redfox]

Not putting forth effort is not specific to gender!

[domestic goddess]

I"ve seen plenty of men who don't put out much effort on the job. And I've never had a job where smokers got extra breaks to smoke. That was reserved for the regular a.m. and p.m. breaks and lunch. I don't have a problem with people who are not doing the same work being paid differently, but that needs to not be gender specific, as well!

[Gardenarian]

Women are punished for frivolously having children.
Hey, it's only the continuation of the species.

[bunnys]

Women are punished for frivolously having children.
Hey, it's only the continuation of the species.

I do not think women should be punished for having children.

But let's get over this "continuation of the species" crap. BFD. Like there's a snowball's chance in Hell we're going anywhere?

[ToomuchStuff]

I"ve seen plenty of men who don't put out much effort on the job. And I've never had a job where smokers got extra breaks to smoke. That was reserved for the regular a.m. and p.m. breaks and lunch. I don't have a problem with people who are not doing the same work being paid differently, but that needs to not be gender specific, as well!

Agreed.


Women are punished for frivolously having children.
Hey, it's only the continuation of the species.

I am not sure how they are punished? I know if you take time off of work to deal with them, there are consequences, in my experience, either way (either gender).
As for the second comment, no, it is only the continuation of a mix of your genes and the one you procreated with (may or may not be a spouse, etc).

[Zoebird]

I love how the monkey tests the rock to make sure that it's the same sort of object, because I would assume (perhaps wrongly) that the monkey evaluates the value of the rock she's giving against the one the other monkey is giving to determine whether or not she should be paid equally (in grapes).

I also love watching her throw the cucumber back at the lady. LOL

[Spartana]

[QUOTE=ToomuchStuff;113407]Equal work is the key. I have NO problem with that. But I am sure you will agree with me, that not all women will put forth the effort (seen a woman say she can't lift that, when the job requirements said must be able to lift 75lbs).
QUOTE]

Well I think that anyone (male or female) who can't do the work that their job requires of them, then they shouldn't be in that job. But for those who are able to preform whatever duties their jobs require, then absolutely they should get equal pay. I also think that people should be allowed to enter any job field (with equal pay) if they can show they are capable of doing that job and not be denied eaqual opportunity because there are general overall gender bias about what women or men are capable of.

[San Onofre Guy]

I will make a generalized statement here. I have had women in my office "need" to leave early to pick up their kid from the same activity that my kid was involved in. My kid hung out waiting for me until my work day was done. Another "had" to leave early 2:00 pm to prepare their kids lunch and get them to the bus for a church retreat and the bus left at 3:30 from a location 15 minutes from the office. Now I know that when busses leave you generally need to have them there 15 minutes prior to the bus leaving, why the employee could not have returned to the office and worked from 3:30-5:00 is beyond me.

The men of my office rarely if ever take this type of leave. I agree that it all comes down to committment to the job, but from my 30 years in a professional workforce, buy and large men are more committed to work.

[redfox]

Men by & large have women to tend to the family details, like pick up the kids & make lunches. It will be a grand day when these guys take over their half of the job of raising a family, the part that goes unpaid.

[sweetana3]

I had men in my office leave early to golf and go to games with their kids. I had one man who doctored his timesheets, got caught, and demoted cause he wanted to golf on good days.

If personal leave (earned time off) is earned, does it matter how it is used if the job is getting done? If they expect the employer to just be "nice", it can create an issue. But if the expectation is that every minute be accounted for and documented, this should be clearly laid out.

[Spartana]

I will make a generalized statement here. I have had women in my office "need" to leave early to pick up their kid from the same activity that my kid was involved in. My kid hung out waiting for me until my work day was done. Another "had" to leave early 2:00 pm to prepare their kids lunch and get them to the bus for a church retreat and the bus left at 3:30 from a location 15 minutes from the office. Now I know that when busses leave you generally need to have them there 15 minutes prior to the bus leaving, why the employee could not have returned to the office and worked from 3:30-5:00 is beyond me.

The men of my office rarely if ever take this type of leave. I agree that it all comes down to committment to the job, but from my 30 years in a professional workforce, buy and large men are more committed to work.


I think this is just a reflection of the fact that there are many more single Moms who work full time jobs out there then single Dads. I know that all the single Dads I know - whether full time or shared custody - have to deal with the same issues as single employed Moms do. They are always having to take time off work to take care of the kids or shuffle them around to places. Like you, if the kids are old enough, they can sort of let them fend for themselves (and women with older kids do this too) but if the kids are young then they can't leave them alone while they finish working before picking them up. And if someone works in a job with an entirely male staff (as I did) you see that this is fairly common with single Dads - but not as common as with women I'm sure.

Another thing to remember is that not all people (women or men) have kids, or they may have kids who are older and can be on their own alot. So dening equal pay for a job because you assume one gender will miss alot of work because they have kids isn't right. Women may be able to work just as much - maybe more - as their male peers.

In any case I believe that you need to look at the overall performance and value that an employee adds to the workforce, not just one or two occasional instances. If a job requires that someone shelp around 65 pound bags of cement all day, then you need an employee who can do that. If heavy lifting is only an occasional thing and certain employees need help on those rare occasions with lifting, you shouldn't base that employees value to the company (and their pay rate) just on those rare instances. They may bring much more to the job in other areas. If a short man needs occasional help from a tall woman like me to get something off the top shelf, you wouldn't reduce his pay because he was short. Same if a weaker female or older person can't lift the occasional heavy load. And sometimes those skinny arms and little female hands can do more then those brawny muscle men can. Back when I was a ships mechanic, I was able to get my long skinny arms and little girlie-girl hands (and thinner body) into places that the big guys couldn't to make repairs. That often saved a huge amount of extra work because we didn't have to tear a bunch of parts off whatever we were working on just to access the thing we needed to repair that were in tight spots. Just grease me up, push me into a narrow opening, hand me some tools and it's fixed! But just because I could do things like that where the brawnier beefcake guys couldn't doesn't mean they should get less pay then me.

[San Onofre Guy]

I work with a lot of cops. A female cop who is 5' 4" and no more than 125 pounds is more effective at diffusing a bad situation than a 6'2" 250 pound guy. Yes, they do get paid the same. There are times when you need beef and brawn but more often than not a small strong person is more effective. Words not fists often rule the day.

[Spartana]

I work with a lot of cops. A female cop who is 5' 4" and no more than 125 pounds is more effective at diffusing a bad situation than a 6'2" 250 pound guy. Yes, they do get paid the same. There are times when you need beef and brawn but more often than not a small strong person is more effective. Words not fists often rule the day.

Tackling a 250 lb guy would probably be hard even for an average sized guy too - a small woman could be tossed aside easily I imagine. That's one of those kind of jobs where a person, male or female, really need to have the skills to do the job. But that's where lots of specific professional job training can equalize things alot. Learning all those little techniques for take-downs, arrests, etc... or carrying people out of a burning building (or ship!) for firefighters can make a huge difference. I know Bae has been teaching his teenage daughter lots of those kind of skills and she could probably take on a 250 lb guy with alot more ease then some average guys could.