Energy

[fidgiegirl]

Wasn't sure if frugality or environment, but I think it can fit in either.

Lots of tips popping up around various threads, esp. the frugals thread, about minimizing home energy use. I thought it would be nice to gather some of our collective expertise in one place.

We insulated last year, but it cost us nearly $4000. Eek! However, we are nice and toasty right now. Who knows what our bills would have been otherwise, but undoubtedly higher . . . this brick and stucco house had no in-wall insulation. It'll take us a looooong time to recover that cost through energy bill savings, but it's done, and we're comfortable.

I got us onto the paperless billing for the energy company, and it graphs our costs over the last two years. That was interesting to see, but also not that useful to us because last year we were in a different house. Of course we're paying more here, it's a bigger house.

I used the laundry costs calculator at this site (http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/laundry.html) to realize that washing in cold isn't a very big savings for our particular house since we heat our water with natural gas. That was liberating, because our washer just doesn't perform like I'd hoped and sometimes using warmer or hot water really improves its performance.

We started line drying this summer and it saved us some $$ plus was meditative. I could have line dried up through yesterday, but didn't know that at the time I took down the umbrella. Won't likely do much with that throughout the winter, though I suppose we could run lines downstairs if we wanted.

After reading more about LEDs I'd like to replace the Xmas lights, but DH wants to use up the ones we have until they conk out. So we might just go the compromise route of no lights. ;)

What have you learned in your quest to minimize your energy use?

[fidgiegirl]

Found this build-your-own solar system (http://www.instructables.com/id/NON-grid-intertie-independant-solar-photovoltic-/), kind of intriguing. The author (who pointed out the link) hangs out on MMM forums and he is smart. I enjoy him very much.

[Mrs-M]

One thing I've learned Re: energy, is finding a happy-medium. For example, as you so mentioned, relying on cold-water washing, doesn't necessarily make for the best outcome, regardless of energy consumption, etc, so compromises and balances really do help make for a more happy and relaxed ending.

One area (in particular) I'm longing to enjoy (once it's all done), is my new laundry room, complete with HE laundry machines! I just know I'll save on product (bleach/detergent), and I'm sure the energy expenditure will be greatly cut, too.

[try2bfrugal]

Found this build-your-own solar system (http://www.instructables.com/id/NON-grid-intertie-independant-solar-photovoltic-/), kind of intriguing. The author (who pointed out the link) hangs out on MMM forums and he is smart. I enjoy him very much.

I think with full size energy efficient appliances these days, you might find you don't need to go to 12 volt appliances. There is a book called The Home Energy Diet that shows you how to get your energy usage to a fraction of what most households use just with tips like good habits, power strips, energy saving light bulbs, lap top PCs, front loading washers, air drying laundry and new model appliances. Improved insulation is one of the ideas stressed in the book.

One thing to keep in mind is that many of the energy saving tips on the utility company sites are designed to save them money, not necessarily you. So some of the more expensive home improvements they suggest may not always have great pay back periods, even with rebates, from a home owner perspective. This book is pretty cool because the guy who wrote is is a professional energy auditor, so he really knows what works and what doesn't. The book ideas for us have been a lot more cost effective than some of the suggestions from our utility company.

[SteveinMN]

As I've mentioned in another post, we've found it easiest to manage energy costs (and differing preferences for energy use) by "thinking local". It is pointless to heat the entire house to 70-72 degrees when we're simply moving between four rooms and leaving the other five rooms essentially unused. Similarly, it's inefficient to leave the water heater at 140 degrees all the time just for the few times we want really hot water -- especially since our dishwasher heats its own water anyway (in fact, it's hooked up to the cold water tap). So we rely on warming blankets and slippers and heating water on the stove or microwave when needed. I'm also a big fan of color-correct CFLs in high-use locations and efficient-but-useful appliances -- and switching them off when they're not in use. As a result, even though this house has almost twice the square footage of my wife's former house, the utility bills are about half of what she was paying monthly (same utility company in a house that was all-gas like this one).

The next big improvements in energy use around here are going to be expensive. The windows, though wood and double-insulated, are almost 40 years old. They're still in good shape, but I know they could insulate better; we just have to figure out what we can afford because we have a dozen large windows to replace. The furnace is much newer, but only 80% efficient; we'll replace it with a 92%-efficient furnace when the time comes.

[razz]

Lots of good ideas. We built our house to be energy efficient about 21 years ago but as Steve mentioned some of the maintenance issues do arise.
On a regular basis, I vacuum but once weekly so it stays dusty until then if dust accumulates, dry clothes on the line in good weather and on drying racks in the cooler weather, weekly laundry using cold water wash with a prior hot bucket soak for those items (kitchen cloths, underwear and handkerchiefs) that need it, CFL lights almost everywhere and lights off when not around, heat with wood in airtight stoves, crockpot or pressure cooker with presoaking of food as needed, vary menu to use minimal energy (bake/cook multiple items, freeze in portions and reheat later in microwave), few Christmas lights outside but focused for effect, solar lights to illuminate outside steps after dark, snug bed linens and nightwearfor warmth, layered clothes in winter with light clothes in summer. air to air heat pump for cooling at a temp set high. Have to think about this some more.

[Dhiana]

A lot of energy savings are built right into most Japanese places. Standard in our apartment:

-Japanese washing machines don't have a hot water hookup. It's all cold water. If I need to soak things, i just stop the washer after it has filled and let it soak.

-Everyone hangs their laundry out on the lines from their balconies. No housing association rules against it.

-Greywater fills our toilet. Whenever you flush the toilet, it is refilled from a spigot/sink at the top of the toilet tank that you wash your hands in.

-Hot water for showers & kitchen are on an on/off switch and temperature controlled. We choose the temperature for our showers and what to wash our dishes. Each degree up makes a big difference in our gas bill. Showering for a month at 37celcius instead of 36celcius adds about US$12 to our gas bill for two people.

-The buildings do seem to be built to take advantage of the sun in the winter, minimize it a bit in the hot summers.

-unfortunately heating isn't very efficient because there isn't any insulation. Insulation is considered a fire hazard here and isn't built into most homes. We do have three heating/air con units in the apartment but only need to run one most of the time.

There really isn't much we can do to get our usage lower other than a solar oven and cold showers.

[bunnys]

Fidgie: I started line drying this summer and I don't really like it--I must confess. I had planned to use it for linens and really don't care if the towels are stiff. But the dog and cat sleep with me--under the covers. And when I wash the sheets but don't put them in the dryer most of the cat/dog hair simply doesn't come off. I'm not really line drying that much anymore... However, I live alone w/no kids and infrequent visitors. I usually only do 3 standard loads of laundry per week. So how much electricity am I really saving by not using the dryer anyway?

Also, like you, I have a house that leaks like a sieve. I should replace my windows to the tune of 6k but it would take practically forever to recoup the cost and I don't want to live in a house that is so tight there's no air circulation. I like knowing that the air in this house is being replaced pretty frequently in the when the heat/AC are running.

And speaking of AC, I replaced my 25 year old 7 SEER rated central AC unit this summer for the cheapest one I could buy. It is rated 13 but it only cost me $1800 installed--not the $4500 I was expecting for the really 23 SEER rated eco-friendly coolant model I could have bought. No, it was not enviornmentally friendly of me to buy the el cheapo unit. But I only turn my AC on in this hot, humid, mid-Atlantic clime about 20 days per summer. (Many people here run their AC from 5/1-10/31 non-stop!) I'm not actually using that much electricity for my cooling needs even with the crappy efficiency I've got now. But I saved $2700 bucks!

So I don't know if this is frugal or not--but I'm definitely paying more for electricity than I could be...

[Mrs-M]

Bunnys. Two tricks you can do to eliminate stiffness when line-drying. One, toss washables into tumble dryer for a few minutes beforehand (before hanging), two, remove laundry from line while still slightly damp and toss into tumble dryer for a few minutes to finish.

[Tammy]

Easiest change ... We moved into a 650 sq ft apt and our entire energy bill is 64 a month year round. We are 100% electric. Apartments on each side and above insulate us. We cool to 70-72 degrees in the hottest city in the usa for 64 a month.

[bae]

I've gone to all-wood heating this year, as a result our electric bills have been a fraction of their previous seasonal amounts, even though it has been colder than usual here so far.

[SteveinMN]

And speaking of AC, I replaced my 25 year old 7 SEER rated central AC unit this summer for the cheapest one I could buy. It is rated 13 but it only cost me $1800 installed--not the $4500 I was expecting for the really 23 SEER rated eco-friendly coolant model I could have bought. No, it was not enviornmentally friendly of me to buy the el cheapo unit. But I only turn my AC on in this hot, humid, mid-Atlantic clime about 20 days per summer. (Many people here run their AC from 5/1-10/31 non-stop!) I'm not actually using that much electricity for my cooling needs even with the crappy efficiency I've got now. But I saved $2700 bucks!
I think that's a key to return on investment and being frugal about energy usage. Here in Minnesota, our furnace is running for a good 5-6 months of the year. It pays to get an efficient one. But we don't tend to use the A/C a lot, so we can get by (and save a lot of $$) with a unit that may not be the peak of efficiency. That last bit of efficiency costs a lot of money. If we lived in Florida or Texas, it would make sense to buy a very efficient A/C system and skimp on the furnace because that's not used so often. It makes sense to me.

[Dhiana]

Bunnys. Two tricks you can do to eliminate stiffness when line-drying. One, toss washables into tumble dryer for a few minutes beforehand (before hanging), two, remove laundry from line while still slightly damp and toss into tumble dryer for a few minutes to finish.

+1

Adding some vinegar as a fabric softener also helps a bit also. About 1/4 cup for a med sized load.

[ToomuchStuff]

-The buildings do seem to be built to take advantage of the sun in the winter, minimize it a bit in the hot summers.

-unfortunately heating isn't very efficient because there isn't any insulation. Insulation is considered a fire hazard here and isn't built into most homes. We do have three heating/air con units in the apartment but only need to run one most of the time.
.

From talking to a late neighbor and her daughter, just before WWII (we had started supplying the Brits but hadn't entered), our housing started being less designed for weather advantages (stopped having large eaves and such). But I am interested in this insulation comment, as I thought Japan was getting more into thinks like polystyrene insulation? (are there forms of insulation that are liked more then others?)

[SteveinMN]

But I am interested in this insulation comment, as I thought Japan was getting more into thinks like polystyrene insulation? (are there forms of insulation that are liked more then others?)
Some foam insulations are quite flammable. The previous owner put polystyrene foam batts between the studs in the exposed part of the basement; we were advised by our house inspector that these are not allowed by code in Minnesota, so I removed the ones I could reach. Not that I noticed a difference in the temperature in that room... Some foams can be treated to be non-combustible. But many are not. But there are insulating materials which are, by nature, non-combustible and/or less-toxic. One would think the value of using one of those would outweigh the negative concerns -- and the expense of heating/cooling uninsulated spaces.

[Mrs-M]

Originally posted by Dhiana.
Adding some vinegar as a fabric softener also helps a bit also. About 1/4 cup for a med sized load.Da bomb! :)

[Tussiemussies]

Da bomb! :)

Also read once that putting salt in the rinse load of laundry will prevent it from freezing in cold weather.
Tried this once and the clothes were still somewhat wet but maybe in temps like the 40's it would work much better...

[Mrs-M]

That is insanely wild, Tussie! Super cool!

I do wonder though, about the corrosive properties of salt. i.e., and what effects it may or may not have on fabric/fibres .

[Tussiemussies]

That is insanely wild, Tussie! Super cool!

I do wonder though, about the corrosive properties of salt. i.e., and what effects it may or may not have on fabric/fibres .

Wonder if it would also have effects on the washer?

[Mrs-M]

Good point, Tussie.