proper place for authoritarian boss

[Zoe Girl]

So when is authority the better answer than cooperative work environments? I posted the great boss article which I believe in, however I am not in a situation right now where I want to show vulnerability. I simply want and need a certain quality of work to be done as of a month ago. I gave my staff a clear schedule and guideline today, we did not have a cooperative talk to create a schedule or sharing on issues (most of these attempts have just wandered off into complaining). As soon as I got busy with other after school programs I overheard my staff say she had no intention of following the schedule I just gave them, and in my opinion was not offered as a choice to negotiate. The next step is honestly a type of corrective action being documented for this staff person, not my fave thing to do.

So when do you take or see your supervisors as needing to take, that authoritarian route? Things like licensing regulations, safety, basic quality are clear. However having a negatively focused staff I am making more authoritarian decisions this year and not having un-productive conversations.

[iris lily]

So when is authority the better answer than cooperative work environments? I posted the great boss article which I believe in, however I am not in a situation right now where I want to show vulnerability. I simply want and need a certain quality of work to be done as of a month ago. I gave my staff a clear schedule and guideline today, we did not have a cooperative talk to create a schedule or sharing on issues (most of these attempts have just wandered off into complaining). As soon as I got busy with other after school programs I overheard my staff say she had no intention of following the schedule I just gave them, and in my opinion was not offered as a choice to negotiate. The next step is honestly a type of corrective action being documented for this staff person, not my fave thing to do.

So when do you take or see your supervisors as needing to take, that authoritarian route? Things like licensing regulations, safety, basic quality are clear. However having a negatively focused staff I am making more authoritarian decisions this year and not having un-productive conversations.

Go get 'em kid!

Sometimes cooperative problem solving is useful because the employees who do the work know options for getting the work done that you don't know.
And also, sometimes it's best to let them talk it out and lead themselves to the logical conclusion. So in summary, sometimes useful facts come out of cooperative action, sometimes the process itself is valuable.

But sometimes you don't have time for that and given past unproductive meetings, don't wish to make time for it, so as you are doing--make the assignments, move on.

For your employe who has expressed her desire to not pay any attention to you: when the first action comes due in the schedule--ask her if it is done. If not, remind her that it's not optional. If she blows off any more in that schedule, complete formal disciplinary action.

[sweetana3]

Iris Lily +1

Management of any kind is the hardest job in the world, in my eyes. You can get awfulness from both sides with both sides being totally unreasonable. The best managers set high expectations and somehow express them without a lot of words, challenge those who need it, support those who need it, discipline others in private, and know when to step back. But this takes time to develop and is a delicate balancing act between upper demands and lower ability.

I stayed out of it for over 30 years because I could. Those who wanted to get ahead needed to learn the balance for them and make it work. It takes an enormous amount of mental energy.

[herbgeek]

Cooperation is particularly useful in the beginning of a process when you are collecting facts, and ideas, and want various voices to be heard. But then after you've done your due diligence, your job as a manager is to take that input and make a decision. At that point, discussion should be minimal unless you've completely overlooked something. If you don't make your boundaries clear, there will be people that will push you (as you've seen with the person who does not intend to follow the schedule). Its not really a question of which style is better, they are both valuable in certain circumstances. The question is under which contexts to use each style, and that is a delicate balancing act, and learned through much experience (and in my case, learning due to screwing it up :laff:).

[Miss Cellane]

My guess is that the employee wanted you to overhear that she isn't going to follow your schedule. Like a small child, she is testing your boundaries and authority--and she's bragging about it to her fellow employees. My next guess is that if you don't discipline her, she will continue not to do her work on time, causing you even more trouble and grief.

Discipline her. If your organization has a written policy, follow that to the letter. Make sure all your employees know what the policy is. Then follow it. If you disagree with the policy, take that up with your superiors, but in the meantime--follow the policy. If you are straightforward and matter of fact in doing so, your employees may not like you as much as you would like, but they will respect you.

They will learn that doing their jobs gets them praise and whatever rewards you are able to give them, while not doing their jobs gets them written up and on the road to being fired. Most will learn this lesson and do their jobs. Some will complain and not do their jobs. There are plenty of excellent workers out there looking for jobs. Feel free to release a non-compliant employee to find more congenial work, so that you can hire someone else who will do the job and do it well.

Do not apologize or defend your actions when giving an employee the natural consequences of their actions. Read the policy out loud, explain what they have done wrong, point out that this will negatively affect their annual review and the consequences of that, deliver the consequence, state the improvement plan--and then move on. Do not mention it again unless the employee brings it up. Treat it as a done deal.

It's perfectly possible that the employee will mess up again--she's still testing you. Just repeat the discipline, bumping up to the next step if necessary.

If you deal with the first instance of a rebellious employee by the book, everyone else will learn that you mean business and will most likely start taking you seriously. If you continue to allow an employee to get away with not following clear, direct instructions, then all your employees will learn that they don't have to do their jobs.

I realize this makes me sound like a miserable, horrible person to work for. But the reality is that in 15 years of supervising people, I've had to discipline one person. Mostly, I try to lead by example, pitching in when work gets busy, helping out when one person is stressed, making sure that pizza arrives when the entire department is working overtime, making sure promotions and raises happen when people deserve them. I like to think I've created a pleasant work atmosphere. But when you get that one employee who tests your authority to the limit, you need to deal with him/her, or they will affect everyone they work with.

[leslieann]

Lots of good advice here, Zoe Girl. It can be challenging NOT to react to what you overheard and just wait to see if it manifests in behaviour. Then take the action that is required. That's your job. I really like the distinctions that Iris Lily and herbgeek made about types of authority/management in particular contexts. As educators, I think people value cooperation over a more direct and clear line of command. But many workers are unable to grasp that a cooperative model does NOT mean that anything goes or that they are in charge. Most people actually prefer clear and consistent boundaries, just like kids do.

Good luck! I also opted out of management years ago: found that being a supervisor did not use my strengths AT ALL and challenged me tremendously. I was lucky to have opt out options (sorry for that construction) but I expect I could have learned adequate skills if I had been willing and trained.

edited for clarity...I tend to write as if we are in conversation and lots gets left out....

[Zoe Girl]

Thank you all, your comments really helped me clarify what is going on. And I had the same thought about the 4 year old child! Funny that this lady is all about obeying and struggles with kids who test boundaries. I tend to do well with the outlier kids and even staff. Unfortunately I have had to write up formal discipline a couple times a year, but talking to others in my position that is pretty normal. Something about the nature of what we do.

I am calmer and I am going to keep this short and sweet when I talk to her. I truly believe in asking before committing to any formal write up so I will do that. Sometimes it makes no difference in the outcome but the person feels heard. I am not sure how much luck I will have with that. One of my favorite ways to deal with this is to cut out the random 'I'm sorry' statements. It really waters down what you need to say and makes you work harder for authority. Plus when you really need to say sorry that is more effective.

Miss Cellane, you do not sound horrible but I worry I sound horrible also. Someone who is giving it a try and working with me would never get any sort of write up, but outright test my limits and then I act like the mother of teenagers and I am pretty tough. No matter what I really hate dealing with these thigns!

[Miss Cellane]

Zoe Girl, here's a story my brother told me.

For several years, he taught at a private boarding school. As a dorm head, he had an apartment in one of the dorms and was responsible for the kids living there. The older students, the juniors and seniors, could leave the campus on some weekend days and go into town. There were clear curfews for the students and very clear consequences if they did not return on time.

First "town" day comes. Two boys return half an hour late. My brother was waiting for them, and calmly informed them that they would, as per regulations, be excluded from the next two "town" days.

Cue massive weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Well, major complaining. Other teachers heard of the punishment and commented to my brother that he was being very harsh. Brother replied that those were the rules and he was just following the rules that all the students knew about.

Guess who was constantly complaining about student behavior in the dorms? Not my brother. Lots of the other teachers did, though. Just that one act of discovering misbehaving students and applying the school required consequence meant that all the kids in my brother's dorm learned that he was not to be messed with. Not only did they always make it back from town by curfew, but they obeyed all the other rules, as well.

My brother was not a big meanie, either. He had the kids over to watch TV for the big football and basketball games, and baked them cookies, and that sort of thing.

Sometimes doing the hard thing makes your life easier all around.

[bunnys]

I think it's important that you only discipline someone for what they actually do--not what they say they're to do. You can't force good morale. You can only foster it.

I would write her up if she doesn't do her job and you just "happen" to see that she isn't doing her job. I would not seek her out and isolate her to check up on her work just because you overheard what she said.

I would not assume she wanted you to overhear her conversation. Most people aren't that aggressive. Most will b!tch when the boss is well out of earshot.

I am a teacher and we have a new and absolutely crappy, demoralizing boss. And we get paid way too little. Teachers b!itch. It's a fact of life.

If you end up needing to write this woman up, I would recommend you refrain from doing so unless you can be absolutely sure and truthful with yourself that there is no vindictive motive on your part.

Good luck.

[early morning]

And, I might add, your taking firm action may be appreciated by your other employees, though I doubt they will say so - it is very demoralizing to be one who works hard and meets expectations, and to have a co-worker who does neither, and yet seems to get by just fine.

edit to add: I'm a teacher, too. We may b!tch, but we know who teaches, and who just babysits.

[bunnys]

earlymorning: I've been a teacher a long time and I admit I only have my personal experience in my schools to judge but I have found that the "babysitters" are very few and very far apart.

I have seen a very few lame teachers. As they continue to be employed their colleagues get sick of carrying them and usually tattle so it isn't news to anyone in the school that the babysitters are not doing their job.

[early morning]

Oh I agree they aren't the norm, and the rest of us are glad to see them go, when they finally do. That's what I was getting at - it is demoralizing when they are allowed to continue, year after year, with no apparent intention to try to improve. And if admin is doing their job - as Zoe Girl is doing - no one will have to "tattle". They - the babysitters - seem to cluster in poor, urban settings, in cash-strapped districts- where it is difficult to get and retain good teachers.

[awakenedsoul]

I agree with Miss Cellane. I'm big on clear boundaries and consistency. I had a set of policies that I followed when I was teaching ballet and yoga. I attracted sensitive, conscientious students who wanted a quiet, disciplined environment. The rule breakers knew my reputation. If they didn't follow the policies, they were not allowed to take the class. I didn't give refunds, either!

[Zoe Girl]

Thank you all, I did talk to her. I just told her what I heard. Actually she started the conversation by giving me her proposal for the schedule. I told her we had a misunderstanding and that the schedule I gave her was not optional or adjustable until right before winter break when we would do that as a group. So she denied saying it, I just stuck to what I heard and then she said I misunderstood, I stuck to it. It developed into a decent conversation however I am still wondering if I gave in too much rather than just being really firm and doing the write up route. The simple write up seemed like an easy way out. One thing she said was that they must really being doing a terrible job if I had to come in and micromanage. I explained that there are so many factors based on my experience and details like which days I know we can use a projector for curriculum that it makes sense to just write it up, plus most schools do this rather than having a group discussion to create a schedule. I brought up again that I needed their plans and she said she didn't understand so we went over it again. I can see the personal perfectionism creating a whole lot of havoc. Her chronic comparing to another program she observed is because now she sees that one really great model and we aren't getting our program that good, so she is defending herself. I was able to talk to her a little about that. I do not think they are doing a terrible job, but I need certain things done that are not getting done. Most of the time she is defending against something I don't even have a problem with. People are dang funny creatures!

Meanwhile, ahhhh, well we will see. This dealing with passive aggressive is in more than one area of my life and lately I want to run away. My oldest daughter moved back home and she is very passive aggressive, it is affecting everyone. There are a lot of reasons to have her back (please no quick fixes, we are meeting the minister today for help). However many times the very direct approach does less than nothing with PA. Basically it takes tremendous energy from me to deal with getting others to do their part and I am frustrated. I need to get my notes together for meeting with the minister now.

[iris lily]

Thank you all, I did talk to her. ... I am still wondering if I gave in too much rather than just being really firm and doing the write up route. The simple write up seemed like an easy way out...

If you mean by "write up" a disciplinary action , no--I don't see disciplinary action here. She hasn't done anything wrong. Her talk about not following your directive is not the same thing as an action of not following your directive.

As far as labeling workers passive aggressive, I don't see an advantage to that, am not sure what it really means anyway. Focusing on their actions in the workplace and if those actions get "certain things done that are not getting done" is your managerial focus.

[Zoe Girl]

Thanks Iris, there was encouragement from my bos to write her up and have that official. I tend to do that in serious cases or ongoing issues but I was not comfortable in this situation. However I do want to be taken seriously.

About the PA, it is a set of traits that go along with when some people do not get things done. The reason to lable it is that there are different techniques to deal with that as compared to someone who has poor time management or someone who needs more training or help. I pretty much means that the person will not say no or otherwise directly state they are not doing something, however getting actual things done in the time and way they need to be done can be an amazing nightmare of excuses and crisis and misunderstanding and then simply saying 'I didn't hear you' when they even responded. I feel there is some of that maybe going on, all I know is that it is taking much more work than it should to get basic things.

[awakenedsoul]

She sounds manipulative. One time I was renting a studio space for my classes and they double booked the room. They also tried to overcharge me. (I had a monthly rate, and they billed me at a weekly rate.) The woman I was dealing with said, "It was a misunderstanding. I'm sorry you were confused." I emailed her back and said, "No it wasn't a misunderstanding, and I wasn't confused." I sent a copy of the quote and the contract with all the dates and times. Sometimes with people like this you need documentation.
Ultimately, I left that space because they were so dishonest. I took them to Small Claims Court and sued them for fraud, denying access to a place of business, and harassment. I won the case. They fired the woman I mentioned above. She later contacted me and apologized for "what they did to me."
Hope your situation turns out better. It's good that you stood your ground.

[Zoe Girl]

So here is an update.

I was wondering what would happen next, either she would take it seriously and shape up or she would show that she was planning on still pushing and pushing it. So today I was deciding if I needed to be with them for planning or if I could support another site that is short staffed, she said that the planning form was so simple and showed me many of them filled out. She also got out the PE curriculum and saw her plan for the afternoon. I did a project connected to the book she planned and did some leading of the groups since the other staff was out. Sometimes she can be pretty defensive about these things but she really took to it well. She even said some things I did were things she would try. YEAH! This is my whole point for trying to be in the program as much as I can (I have 7 other after school programs but they are not every day). I am not totally naive, I am on guard about this staff but I do think she is good at working with the kids. Maybe positive encouragement can be the best in this situation.

I am feeling SUPER good about how I handled it. Instead of taking the hard line and having a list of consequences I have hopefully built a bridge so that we can have a great program that is great even when I am not in the room!