Is your spending in line with you values?

[awakenedsoul]

I was thinking today how my spending has really dropped in the past few years. My hobbies are cheap, I don't drive much, and I've made saving money a priority. When I was working and in debt, I just couldn't save money.

I don't have t.v. anymore, and I don't miss it. I didn't realize how negative the subliminal effect was until now. I've been reading library books, and really enjoying that. We have three excellent libraries is our area. Growing my own food has been relatively inexpensive. A lot of my winter vegetables got eaten by some animal, but the fruit trees have made up for it. I froze a lot of my summer veggies, and I've still got several pumpkins on the porch...

How about you?

[bunnys]

No. I don't think my spending is in line with my values. I think I should spend more money to enjoy life. More for entertaining and more for just fun things that I want every now and then. I also think I shouldn't debate and debate until the cows come home every purchase I make that isn't groceries or paying bills. But I do.

An example. I need a new bobbin case for my 50-year-old sewing machine because without it, I can't sew. I'd like to sew. I'd like to do some crafty projects. I'd like to reupholster a chair I have. I can do none of these things w/o a working sewing machine. Not a new sewing machine, mind you. Just a working sewing machine. But if I buy the bobbin, then I'll want to buy the supplies for all those crafty things I'd like to do and then before I know it the spending will be out of control. I've been debating this under $10 purchase for something like 6 months. Should I buy the bobbin case and lose control of my spending or not? So far, I've refrained--but I really would like that bobbin case...

[gimmethesimplelife]

Good question. I think that I'm a work in progress on this one and that slowly my spending is becomming more in line with my values. It helps to have the stress of debt being relieved from my life, and the opportunity to learn some news skills so I won't be stuck in food and beverage forever. I am coming to realize more and more that a lot of the crazy overspending I once did is because I was so unhappy with and felt stuck in food and beverage. So what do I do? Spend money I didn't have to buy my way out of it - really not the best of ideas there.

For myself, I have been cutting back more and more and where I believe spending more would be in line with my values is in visiting museums - eating better food - growing more of my own food - continuing to visit Mexico for the prescription drugs I do take and for my dental - and more when I can to Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah, a place I have volunteered at before and really believe in. Rob

[fidgiegirl]

You know, in general yes, and I'm especially pleased with how we've spent for this Xmas. We have spent a lot more than in past years but little of it as gifts, more as informal donations to people who needed it, and that feels good. We also will be spending to make a nice Christmas dinner for my side of the family. When I look at the overall price tag I give a little gasp, but when I think of all we have, I'm happy with where we're at.

Throughout the year I think we do spend in accordance with our values. I'll probably feel a little better about it when we're paying less mortgage insurance, though.

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks for the replies. These answers are eye opening for me. I learn a lot from reading your posts.
bunnys,
I really hope you get your bobbin case! I think you deserve it. It sounds like all of nothing thinking, though. Can you just spend a certain amount on supplies? I love to knit and crochet. It grounds me and opens my heart. I darn my socks and mend my clothes. I use coupons from Beverly's and only spend about $8.00 a month. I hope you start sewing again...
rob,
That is so true about overspending to make yourself feel better in a job you don't like. I did that, too. I would buy things for myself because I felt like I deserved it. (because I worked so hard.) It was an abusive atmosphere. I'm so glad you have more options now and are making such positive changes. I rescue dogs and I have one who nobody could go near when I got her. They were definitely going to put her to sleep. (She had been abused by gangs and was starving and pregnant.) Now she is happy as can be. She loves to ride along my bicycle with me and lay by the heater. Your plans sound great.
fidgiegirl,
Those donations sound wonderful. Your dinner sound delicious, too. I hope you can wipe out the PMI insurance soon. It seems like when your spending is in alignment with your values you attract money.

I hope to hear more. Some of these threads centering on guns have made me realize that I have different values. I need to focus my energy, time and talent there. I value: exercise, self care, art, the home, delicious food, great books, animals, nature, spiritual growth, and travel.

[SteveinMN]

as, I see two answers to your question. As for our spending in terms of living simply, we're getting there, but we're not anywhere near 100% yet. I have to say this has not turned out to be a particularly frugal month for us. For various reasons, life has not been very stable the last few weeks. And it is year-end, with its demand on gift-giving and charity. So spending money has not been as considered as we would like it to be.

On a more general level, however, I think we are very good about spending in a way that reflects other values, like buying from small local vendors as much as we can, buying goods and services from companies which treat their employees and customers ethically, giving to charities for purposes which engage us and which have proved to be efficient in their operation, etc. For both DW and me, spending money on something is a vote to support it. I like to think we do a good job of voting our values.

[Dhiana]

I'm not sure where I could possibly find all my ideals in a single area. A place with great public transportation, reasonable sized-home, a place for growing just a few vegets, a place to get all organic, local food, short commute to the job. Near a lot of great museums, galleries, hiking, beach, snowboarding, etc...you get the picture...so I pick a balance the best I can with what and where we are. Red Peppers from Korea are more local than the US, the red peppers I grew on our high-rise balcony were nice but a balcony farm is just not feasible. A place with a yard to grow more food would be much more expensive, cost a LOT, LOT more to heat/AC, and probably farther away from public transportation.
Each day I seek to find a better balance for our money but someone keeps moving the fulcrum :P

[razz]

By and lare, we do. We have been thrifty all our lives but enjoyed those activities that were priorities.
As life goes on, I find that values don't change but are expressed differently. We need quiet and space now with a good walking areas for the dog and good friends with whom to share them and other interests. The focus changes somewhat is the best way to discribe the difference. I used to be much more rushing around and now more thoughtful.

[citrine]

I know exactly what you are talking about awakendsoul! That one little purchase can open the floodgates...but it is for your craft and I think that should be a priority! My husband and I are the same way about making purchases....hemming and hawing. We spend our money on travel, the kitty cats, donations, and working on our house. We hardly buy any clothes (2x a year), but do have a monster tv with cable (football)! My mindless shopping has also gone down significantly since I left corporate as well.

[Aqua Blue]

I enjoyed reading everyone's posts. My sister is staying with me for the winter. She has been home less for several years now, following the sudden death of her husband. She has been doing seasonal work and renting a room wherever she is working. I have ankolosing spondolitis and it is getting harder and harder for me to do the basics. I can no longer do lawn care or shoveling and have hired them done for the past year. I still do inside house keeping, but need to do a little everyday, rather than all at once like I used to. She has been doing most of that for me, as I have been in a major flare. She brought up that maybe it is time to move to something simpler with no outside "work". We have been having discussions about the freedom of not owning many things, what she owns fits in her car(Minus a room full of stuff in my garage, which she is now ready to part with.)

It is hard to think of yourself as unable to do something. Loss is hard to deal with. We have been talking about thinking about the positives: time freed up from outside yard work to pursue interests, using less of the energy resources with a smaller and newer and more energy efficient house. For me it is not so much about money(altho that enters in) as where do I want to put my personal time and energy. The past couple of years most of my physical energy hasgone to trying to maintain this house. While it is not huge by most standards, it is more than I really need. I have been doing a lot of thinking about what I really want. How big of house? Do I want/need some outside space? What things would I like to do/pursue if that time energy and money was not tied up? Lots to think about.

Sorry this is ramblng and a little off topic.

[Laser_Cat]

I try to live and spend in alignment with my personal values. For example, I buy organic produce and humane meat not because I'm thinking about the health benefits (but of course that is a bonus) but I want to help the Earth in any way I can so I know that organic is easier on the land. Of course organic from new zealand (for example) isn't but I try to balance local with organic.

Bunnys, I know what you mean though. I actually struggle sometimes with the idea of buying anything, even if I know I will use and enjoy it, especially since I am trying to pay off my student loans faster, and yup one small thing can lead into an avalanche of purchases.

Personally I love learning new things and taking classes make me very happy but I do find that it's always a struggle to part with the money (generally because it's a larger amount) to take a 12 week class or so. Yet it would definitely be in alignment of my personal values. =)

This is a super interesting topic thanks for bringing it up!

[awakenedsoul]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. You've made me see how fortunate I am, location wise. We have very mild winters, so I don't have to use much heat. Having a tiny house makes cleaning and utility costs minimal. As I've said in recent posts, this neighborhood is a challenge, but I am close to many things. The Pacific Crest Trail is awesome for hiking, the mountains are just 45 mins. away...same with the beach. The longer I live here, the more I realize how lucky I am to have a patch of land for growing food. I can bike to the train station, which goes to all the LA museums. You people have got me thinking...I need to get out more! I appreciate my location after reading these posts.
When I went house hunting, the thing that struck me was that I couldn't find any one bedroom one bathroom homes anymore. Everything they build now (where I live,) is two bedroom/two bathroom.

[Life_is_Simple]

The categories where my spending is in line with my values:

Investing in my health
Investing in the health of my friend
Spending on things that make my life easier
Spending on travel to visit family
Spending on some things that are fun
Investing in my business

That's a little vague, but I look at my Quicken report, and almost everything goes to one of the above categories.

When I look at it that way, there isn't much wasteful spending. There might be some areas I could spend more efficiently (like groceries).

So.... Interesting!:+1: Good question!

One thing that I have mixed feelings on, is I spend on NFL Audiopass. I feel I am condoning violence in the sport, and the concussions, by doing so. But I really like following the Vikings!

[iris lily]

When I went house hunting, the thing that struck me was that I couldn't find any one bedroom one bathroom homes anymore. Everything they build now (where I live,) is two bedroom/two bathroom.

Conventional real estate wisdom is that anything less than 2 bedrooms is not worth your investment.

My own experience tells me something different after watching the popularity of certain small houses on the market.

As an aside, we own 3 tiny houses (none of them habitable) that range from 450 to 600 sq feet. We kind of just have them for the grounds to grow stuff on, but they would be fun to live in were they finished.

[pinkytoe]

For the most part, yes. Access to good food and paying quite a bit more tax-wise to live in a convenient neighborhood are our priorites (along with saving) right now.
The only thing I ever buy with wild abandon is plants or anything to do with gardening since that is what I love.
On the subject of housing, I think for various reasons there will be a desire for much smaller detached houses. Not all os us want to live in condos and apartments. They are very hard to find since 2500sf and up seems to be the norm around here. All the little houses from another era with 800-1200 sf are being torn down. I actually think someone is missing the boat on not developing housing for people who want smaller homes and yards.

[SteveinMN]

Not all os us want to live in condos and apartments. They are very hard to find since 2500sf and up seems to be the norm around here. All the little houses from another era with 800-1200 sf are being torn down. I actually think someone is missing the boat on not developing housing for people who want smaller homes and yards.
Houses are supersized for the same reasons restaurant meals and cars are supersized. For example, preparing and serving a restaurant meal incurs variable costs, like the food and the labor to prepare it -- and fixed costs, like the costs of plates and flatware, lighting the restaurant, staffing. That's why some restaurants serve such huge portions -- for a little extra in the cost of food, they can increase the price of the dish even more and make more money. And most diners think they're getting a deal because there's a doggie bag at the end.

Building smaller houses would save some on concrete, wood, drywall, wire, and a little labor. But once the electrician is on site, for example, installing a few less outlets doesn't save you all that much. Permits cost the same; assuming there are minimum requirements for housing lots, building a smaller house on the same lot does not save money. As a result, a house that runs maybe 1200-1500 square feet really will not be much less expensive than one that runs 2000-2500 square feet. Many buyers will look at what they get for the little additional money and choose the bigger house. Only the ones who think about the total lifecycle cost of the house will stick with the smaller house.

[awakenedsoul]

Conventional real estate wisdom is that anything less than 2 bedrooms is not worth your investment.

My own experience tells me something different after watching the popularity of certain small houses on the market.

As an aside, we own 3 tiny houses (none of them habitable) that range from 450 to 600 sq feet. We kind of just have them for the grounds to grow stuff on, but they would be fun to live in were they finished.

I know. Especially since there are now more single people than married people! I guess since I lived in hotels for so long, (15 years,) and in a NYC apt., 567 square feet feels spacious and airy to me. The utilities and repairs are so low, too. It's also less maintenance.

[awakenedsoul]

I completely agree with you pinkytoe. I'm so glad no one tore down this cute little house. All of the others here have additions. There's something about the original size that I find charming and sweet.

Steve,

I've had two older women tell me that they wish they just had a tiny house like mine. One is having to rent a room out in her home to a college student. (Her husband got Alzheimers at 60. It was a shock to her and a financial strain.) Another woman was in assisted living and hated it. She missed her chores and her garden. I think we need more small cottages.

[Tammy]

Awakened soul - I'm interested in hearing about your living in hotels. Whenever we stay in one I think about how simple it is, and how I would love to live that simply someday.

[SteveinMN]

Steve,
I've had two older women tell me that they wish they just had a tiny house like mine.
Within your circle, a smaller house is likely a popular choice. However, those women saying they want a smaller house and their actually buying them are two different things. Certainly a builder would be happy to assemble houses of 1000-1200 square feet for them; all it takes is money and a place to live until the house is built. But they likely will discover that building a 1000-1200 square foot house will cost almost as much as a 2000 square foot house.

And, unfortunately for them, many buyers are looking for bigger houses for their families, home offices, etc. Builders would not be putting together 2000-2500 square foot houses if there were no buyers. So a 1200 square foot house in this market will have fewer potential buyers -- a consideration in resale.

We have 1800 square feet in our house and, honestly, until I got married, I really never used about 600 square feet of the space. I certainly understand what you're saying about smaller homes. It's my preference, too. But it is not yet the preference of most of the market, largely for economic reasons. Perhaps as our population gets generally older, there will be more demand for smaller homes. But I don't see the market there yet. Certainly not here in Minneapolis/St. Paul.

[bae]

I spend my *time* in line with my values. My time is the only irreplaceable, priceless resource I have. Money is just pieces of paper.

[Bootsie]

Is my spending in line with my values? Hmmm. Not as closely aligned as I would like it to be. The misalignment is largely because I stopped paying close attention to my spending, but I'm working on correcting that bad habit. My spending is within budget limits, so that's not a problem, but my spending just seems sloppy, and sloppiness is not one of my values.

[ToomuchStuff]

I will continue to be a work in progress, as, no matter what values I have (values can change), someone I am spending money with, might not have the same (can't control others).


Houses are supersized for the same reasons restaurant meals and cars are supersized. For example, preparing and serving a restaurant meal incurs variable costs, like the food and the labor to prepare it -- and fixed costs, like the costs of plates and flatware, lighting the restaurant, staffing. That's why some restaurants serve such huge portions -- for a little extra in the cost of food, they can increase the price of the dish even more and make more money. And most diners think they're getting a deal because there's a doggie bag at the end.

Building smaller houses would save some on concrete, wood, drywall, wire, and a little labor. But once the electrician is on site, for example, installing a few less outlets doesn't save you all that much. Permits cost the same; assuming there are minimum requirements for housing lots, building a smaller house on the same lot does not save money. As a result, a house that runs maybe 1200-1500 square feet really will not be much less expensive than one that runs 2000-2500 square feet. Many buyers will look at what they get for the little additional money and choose the bigger house. Only the ones who think about the total lifecycle cost of the house will stick with the smaller house.

I have heard others, mention, you don't want less then a three bedroom now. Also (it has happened around here), some cities will try to issue a moratorium on houses below a certain size. (this affects their tax base)

[awakenedsoul]

Awakened soul - I'm interested in hearing about your living in hotels. Whenever we stay in one I think about how simple it is, and how I would love to live that simply someday.

I was on tour for fifteen years dancing in Broadway shows. We stayed at places like The Hyatt. When I was in my early twenties, I shared a room with a roommate. The company moved our steamer trunks, and we each had two suitcases. It was a big deal to have a fridge in your room. For a 22 year old, it was very exciting. We were also spoiled by having housekeeping every morning to supply fresh towels, and keep our rooms spotless. I also spent three years in Europe, part of that time I rented an apt. in Berlin. I learned that I prefer to have less, and that a clean living space is really important to me. I try not to accumulate clutter and "stuff." I like the look and feel of a Bed and Breakfast, and that's what I strive for in my home.

[awakenedsoul]

Is my spending in line with my values? Hmmm. Not as closely aligned as I would like it to be. The misalignment is largely because I stopped paying close attention to my spending, but I'm working on correcting that bad habit. My spending is within budget limits, so that's not a problem, but my spending just seems sloppy, and sloppiness is not one of my values.

I know what you mean. It's easy to slip. That's great that you stayed within your budget, though. It sounds like you have good habits, financially.

[SteveinMN]

I have heard others, mention, you don't want less then a three bedroom now.
Granted that a lot of what we were always told about real estate proved incorrect in The Great Recession, but a three-bedroom single-family home probably is the standard of housing across the United States. Certainly that differs in dense urban areas and in very expensive enclaves. But there always will be a market for a three-bedroom single-family home and that's one reason why I, as an unmarried man without kids, bought one rather than a condo or a townhouse. In fact, the local paper today has an article (http://www.startribune.com/local/south/184573031.html) about how demand for townhouses -- half the new-housing stock in the Twin Cities before TGR -- has cratered and how their sale prices are not recovering as quickly as even single-family homes.

[rosarugosa]

Bae: I think one of the best things I learned from YMOYL is that "time equals money" is backwards. "Money equals time" is a more useful perspective.

[JaneV2.0]

Awakened soul - I'm interested in hearing about your living in hotels. Whenever we stay in one I think about how simple it is, and how I would love to live that simply someday.

I've long thought my simple living grail is hotel living. While in transit between job locations some years ago, I lived in a downtown hotel for a couple of weeks and it was lovely. I had a thirty-second walk to work, access to shopping and restaurants, and housekeeping service. Really heavenly.

[JaneV2.0]

I can see how smaller houses would appeal to many. Friends of mine live in houses and condos from 800 to 1100 sq. ft. Obviously, someone would buy smaller houses if they were available. i could downsize a few hundred square feet and still be comfortable, as long as I had adequate garage space. My ideal house would probably be around 1200 sq. ft. with a sturdy fence and a view. Two large bedrooms, each with a bath, would be perfect.

[Tussiemussies]

My spending has gone way down. No purchasing books, magazines, less eating out than before, only buying clothes when they are on sale after a holiday. We were eating at home a lot until we just moved and DH has ripped apart the kitchen to re-do so we have been eating out a lot lately. That will stop though.

Some areas we could improve on is getting an instant hot water heater. Was looking at something lately that showed that the hot water heater is an energy guzzler. That was for gas heating though.

DH could commute to work with his boss, who he gets along great with, but he says he wants that down time to himself. He works very hard, two jobs, so I think he should indulge in some things he wants if that is his choice. He also usually eats lunch out, so I don't say too much.

I have given up TV we have cut down cable to less channels, have our computer through our carrier and our phone is through our computer.

Want to have an organic garden and clothesline but not sure where to put it. Next big item is a wood burning stove which should really cut down on our heating bill. The bedrooms here are zoned and not with the open living area. A perfect arrangement!


Christine